Like i said some post ago, I feel more input lag on PC Standard Hdr playing COD BO4. Its not recommended as everyone is sweating right now :D
Singleplayer is a non issue
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Like i said some post ago, I feel more input lag on PC Standard Hdr playing COD BO4. Its not recommended as everyone is sweating right now :D
Singleplayer is a non issue
Ps4 Pro here. Had no problems with these settings. I Like his webOS HDR/SDR also ( Worth a try)
But im back to Game Mode with Dynamic Contrast set to Medium on HDR
It was too good to be true. Please fix it, LG.
Regarding PC HDR Standard input lag, see my earlier post about it.
i Have seen it. But something is off .
Cant explain, maybe it is because COD is Fast paced. And IF it is Placebo, my KD is down way to much until i get used to it ;) .
EDIT : just a reminder Im PS4PRO, could be on my end
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This mixed feedback about the new PC HDR Standard input lag is really bizarre indeed...
I would summon DOTDASHDOT and kindly ask him to do another metered test of LG B7/C7 v5.80.04 firmware + PC Mode + HDR Standard Input Lag both with X1X set to 4:2:0 and PS4 Pro, and also to compare with "non-PC" HDR Standard mode.
Only this way we could be objectively sure about it.
Personally I will still keep it as I prefer both current "PC Mode" SDR and HDR picture quality and because I don't feel any major delay at all in either modes, in all 30fps and 60fps games I tested.
I´ll give it another try now . COD is a sweatfest right now, KD doesnt matter haha.
Just hope it is 21ms, since i played on my friends Q6FN (Game Mode/15ms/ bright) im a bit jealous.
EDIT: PS4PRO Resolution on Auto and PC HDR Standard is smooth as Game Mode 100 % ( a lot banding)
So im guessing something is wrong with YUV420.
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The tester for wherever reason is saying all modes are 21ms in PC 4K HDR, no idea why because it isn't 21, I'd say 40's.....think it's because all processing is turned off, but in real terms it isn't correct, very odd! But game PC HDR is 21ms, and with the right tweaks I've made it look visually identical to my calibrated Cinema HDR mode.
I made this video also which shows the lag difference:
Thanks for the answer, this is very odd indeed.
Some people claim that Enabling 4:2:2 on X1X put back Input Lag of PC HDR exactly on par with HDR Game (but adds severe color banding) , did you also test this?
I find this also very strange if true.
Anyway, using HDR Game on PC Mode won't be as beneficial as using PC HDR Standard even if HDR Game is set on par as HDR Cinema or HDR Technicolor because both Active HDR and Dynamic Contrast cannot be enabled in PC Mode, so the image will still look dark/dim and also dimmer than non-PC input HDR Game with Dynamic Contrast set to Medium.
To me again, if the metered new PC HDR Standard input lag is 21.3ms and in the worst case "feels like 40ms" this only means that LG actually fixed all PC HDR Modes compared to previous firmwares (metered by Vincent Teoh at 103ms, and that felt as horrid as non-PC/non-Game HDR modes, where now that's not the case anymore).
It does feel better with 422, which is odd in itself, but the banding and colours are messed up.
I use a Vertex so I can get it bright, but it's still an option for people that don't use DC or don't like standard, but yeah I do have to turn PC off when watching a film, because of active.
The B8 is already more bright in HDR GameMode, u can enable Dynamic Tone Mapping there
Thanks kratos2412, is there a good place to read up on B8 settings? Mine will be arriving on Tuesday.
Already tried that for a test, but the new fixed PC Mode looks so much better both for SDR and HDR compared to SDR/HDR Game and the increased input lag of PC HDR Standard is so minimal that going back it's not worth it anymore for me.
My issue isn't the input lag, it feels almost the same to me. It's how much clipping Standard does. Even at 500 nits it's already throwing detail away.
For me it's still better having sunny skies clipped than having a dim picture all the time with only the sky bright.
The only way to properly fit 4.000 nits contents to a 800 nits TV is to have a proper Dynamic Tonemapping as Active HDR does for movies while keeping 20ms input lag but this won't happen on 2017 LG OLEDs (and only partially works on 2018 models).
Can I ask, in SDR mode for X1X, why is the color gamut recommended at Auto when Wide looks much nicer and has a lot more "pop" to it?
By accuracy standards, is Wide over saturating the image or something - resulting in overall inaccurate colors? or is wide just making already accurate colours just stand out a bit more?
Thanks
By accuracy standards, is Wide over saturating the image or something - resulting in overall inaccurate colors? or is wide just making already accurate colours just stand out a bit more?
Thanks
The first one you said. That's why generally when using Wide Gamut the Color saturation value should be desaturated by 10 points at least.
If possible to select, Auto will directly use Rec.709 gamut for SDR and Rec2020 gamut for HDR, so to have native colors and what creators intended.
Just a few questions.. While doing the settings for white balance I just have to input the settings for either method 2 or method 20 and not both correct, same as choosing low or high? I'm just suppose to choose one of them correct? Also on a pc am I suppose to put output dynamic range to full or limited for SDR, I'm liking full much better with these settings, have always used limited before.
Is the lag everyone talking about just with PC mode Standard HDR, or does ISF SDR also present more lag than game mode?
Is the lag everyone talking about just with PC mode Standard HDR, or does ISF SDR also present more lag than game mode?
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You need to apply all of WB setting in sequence, so start for example with 2 points, then select high, set the value, then low set the value, etc
Always use Standard +, Black Level Low.
PC ISF SDR has no lag issues, so it's 21ms Input Lag.
PC HDR other than HDR Game (so PC HDR Standard) seems very slightly higher, but much much better than "non-PC" HDR with all post-processing disabled.
It also seems that the added input lag is added by the console, not by the TV (that measured still always shows 21ms Input Lag also with all PC HDR modes)
It's a non issue anyway.
I was under the impression that you never copy the detailed white balance settings as they vary panel to panel.
While this is true, apparently the differences in the 7-series OLED panels, panel-to-panel, are close enough to one another that the calibrations will be beneficial even if they may not be 100% tailored to your particular panel. Having used the white balance changes myself, I can vouch for a significant improvement over a non-calibrated white balance: the change was immediately noticeable.
That's generally the case. panel variance can be as much as 20% in the same exact model and size in the same room in same lighting conditions. Using settings that are for a different panel in different room lighting conditions makes 0 sense to me. I guess yes it could get you close or it could make it worse and if you don't have the equipment to do it yourself, it beats having a professional come and do it at $400 plus but I think people need to realize that when they do that they DO NOT have a professionally calibrated display. A real calibration doesn't change every week, it's suited to your viewing habits, and conditions as well as preference.
People may say it's accurate but unless they are checking it against reference patterns and a meter, it's just assumption on their part judging it by eye which is iffy because you are letting someone who thinks it accurate based off what? Their preference
At the end of teh day though all that matters is if you're happy and satisfied with whatever you have. Either be copied settings, professional calibration, default picture modes. If you are satisfied and happy with your picture then that's all that matters
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Just dropping in to note that I switched back to the previous Game Mode settings that were provided in the OP prior to the latest firmware update on my B7. The image quality in the provided PC settings is UNDENIABLY superior but the added input lag is noticeable to me in the HDR Standard mode only (SDR still felt unchanged in terms of input lag), though I will not claim that a single game I tested was unplayable at all, just noticeably a bit more sluggish.
Both settings should be satisfactory to most users but the tighter control response takes precedence for me when making the decision. I was absolutely FLOORED by how great Shadow of the Tomb Raider looked in PC Mode HDR Standard with the settings provided by OP -- truly the most jaw-dropping implementation of HDR I've seen in a game yet, and I can't quite get the HDR Game mode to look quite as vibrant with its contrast due to the dimmer output.
Both settings should be satisfactory to most users but the tighter control response takes precedence for me when making the decision. I was absolutely FLOORED by how great Shadow of the Tomb Raider looked in PC Mode HDR Standard with the settings provided by OP -- truly the most jaw-dropping implementation of HDR I've seen in a game yet, and I can't quite get the HDR Game mode to look quite as vibrant with its contrast due to the dimmer output.
Not that I could provide, but I've seen the sentiment echoed by multiple people both on here and on the AVS forums, so I'd imagine that sentiment has to come from somewhere, right?
Quick question to OP regarding color calibration, if I prefer color temp at w45, should color still stay on 44?
Edit - question is for pc hdr standard
Edit - question is for pc hdr standard
Yes, saturation will be accurate and you will just have a more cool/blue temperature.
It will be slightly different compared to calibrated HDR Technicolor Expert (and D65) temperature tho
I highly respect your choice, but I cannot avoid to consider the added input lag of PC HDR Standard so marginal that most people wouldn't even notice compared to HDR Game.
If I hadn't read it here on Era when someone pointed that out, probably I wouldn't have ever noticed even switching back and forth from PC SDR ISF and PC HDR Standard!
Another bizarre thing is that when measured with proper equipment (as DOTDASHDOT already did), the new PC HDR Standard still gave a results of 21ms, same as regular HDR Game, but still "felt" a bit higher to the most sensible people on this matter.
Plus, when X1X is set to 4:2:2, those same people say the added input lag is gone, and PC HDR Standard feels exactly the same as HDR Game (with the major drawback of ugly color banding everywhere).
This makes me think that this extra bit of lag is probably added by the console itself rather than the TV (that has now a fully fixed PC Mode after over a year), as probably something's going on console side when outputting native 4:2:0 YUV @ 10-bit signal instead of re-convert it and upscale it (as happens when enabling 4:2:2), when on PC Mode.
In the end, this means that even if very marginal as of now, this extra input lag could be totally eradicated with just a new Xbox Dashboard update rather than a new webOS firmware update, with no need to change TV settings again.
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If you prefer using "non-PC" HDR Game to "PC" HDR Standard, yes.
You can also try to put it on "High" for more luminance, but it will become less accurate.
Auto color gamut should be preferred both for SDR and HDR when possible, yes.
Thank you P40L0
When I change the gamut to Auto, it becomes a little bit less saturated than Wide (HDR game). Is this correct? Probably the game is not mastered with WCG? (Forza Horizon 4)
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It's correct as Wide Gamut oversaturates colors both in SDR and HDR (even more in SDR).
That's also why when using PC HDR Standard with forced Wide Gamut it's recommended to lower Color value to 44 to compensate and to make it correct again.
"Wide" is just an LG custom gamut name anyway, as selecting "Auto" in HDR will make the TV use the industry standard Rec2020 gamut, that's de facto both wide and correct, not only by definition.
My main motivation for making the switch back was that the HDR Standard in PC mode was causing slightly sluggish input in Black Ops 4. I did adjust after using it a while but my brain kept noticing that I was having to compensate for it a bit.
To note, I am playing Black Ops 4 on PS4 Pro, and I tend to use all your recommended settings across both platforms.
Again, I wanna stress to any other users that see our exchange that the PC HDR Standard settings are perfectly playable but there is a noticeable, slight addition of input lag -- for me, anyway. I highly doubt that it would affect most users, and the problem is a LOT less apparent when playing 30fps games, and tends to stand out more with 60fps games. Since I'm playing a LOT of Black Ops 4 on my PS4 Pro right now, it stood out enough to motivate me to switch back over for just that slight extra crispness to control.
Also stressing that the PC SDR settings provided by OP do not have noticeable input lag at all, it only affects the HDR Standard mode.
Whats the difference between PC input mode and Game console mode other than the 4:4:4 added by PC input? Are there any changes that affects the picture or have missing picture options? I know when I tried to test a 4k movie I had to switch the input out of pc mode as I preferred the movie mode options from other inputs for watching movies.
Also why on my PC is there a difference in picture when switching between 4:2:0? 4:4:4, RGB limited, and 4:2:2 looks exactly the same, while 4:2:0 looks like RGB with dynamic full.
Anyway Forza Horizon 4 refuses to work in HDR with 4.2.0 on pc, the screen colors go crazy. FFXV and MHW works fine with 4:2:0 HDR.. Must be a windows store thing.
Also why on my PC is there a difference in picture when switching between 4:2:0? 4:4:4, RGB limited, and 4:2:2 looks exactly the same, while 4:2:0 looks like RGB with dynamic full.
Anyway Forza Horizon 4 refuses to work in HDR with 4.2.0 on pc, the screen colors go crazy. FFXV and MHW works fine with 4:2:0 HDR.. Must be a windows store thing.
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All PC Input picture modes were measured at the same 21ms low input lag, but some post-processing option are greyed out and cannot be selected (Dynamic Contrast, Active HDR, Noise Reduction, RealCinema, TruMotion etc.) but it's not a real issue as even outside PC Input those are recommended to be turned off for a better image quality, and both in PC Input and Game Modes there is already a de-judder system similar to Real Cinema always active in background.
The main advantages of PC Input / Mode (other than low input lag) are:
- Using a fully calibrated ISF Expert (Dark Room) profile for all SDR contents instead of more limited / less accurate SDR Game mode (also forced to Wide Gamut);
- Using 4:4:4 RGB Limited @ 8-bit instead of 4:2:0, so having noticeably more clear texts and generally a more sharp output in SDR;
- Using PC HDR Standard profile instead of HDR Game, noticeably improving picture quality bringing back luminance and reverting LG controversial choice of changing HDR Game tone mapping;
- Not having to "manual switch" anymore, as Dolby Vision in PC Mode is the same as non-PC, keeping RealCinema forced ON, and with the same picture quality.
All of this personally tested on X1X.
If you're gaming on PC, your mileage may vary.
I put the white balance settings in to see how it looks and clicked apply to all inputs...but it doesn't appear to have applied it when I am just watching prime video through the TV, when the setting had been inputted while calibrating another input...if that makes sense.
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Double check if values are the same in other inputs.
Generally it should work, but If they differ (or are still at default) try to manually apply them again for that input.
And I'm not planning on buying a new TV just for that lol.....dear lord knows how much I saved to buy my current C7.
I think HDR standard in PC looks fantastic vs game mode. Its nice to have a bright xlesr picture again without needing dynamic contrast. it plays great and I wouldnt doubt if folks feeling input lag are maybe having frame drops in game leading to increased frametimes which would also affect input latency.
I've had 0 difference in feeling in every game I have played.
HDR Standard on PC mode really doesn't seem ideal despite any boost to luminance when it forces color gamut to Wide. Everything becomes over saturated.
Edit: Looking at the PC Mode HDR after updating to 5.80.04 none of them seem ideal despite colors having been fixed. Banding is really bad in every picture mode. So much for technicolor HDR with low input lag.
Edit: Looking at the PC Mode HDR after updating to 5.80.04 none of them seem ideal despite colors having been fixed. Banding is really bad in every picture mode. So much for technicolor HDR with low input lag.
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PC HDR Standard Color value dialed back to 44, Brightness at 49 and Color Temp to 49 results in accurate colors despite the forced Wide Gamut.
Banding is the same as any "non-PC" profile as long as X1X is set to 4:2:0 ("Allow 4:2:2" advanced option Unchecked).
I don't know if anyone asked something like this before, but I'm having some doubts about how I should calibrate and set some things with my LG 4KTV. My TV is a LG 49UJ6560 and it's connected to an Onkyo TXSR252. The Onkyo is connected to a PS4, Switch, PC and a SNES Classic. My main issues are the following:
- When using Black Level Low with my pc, I see some loss of detail. For example, when using whatsapp web there are some grey lines separating different conversations when using black level high, but I see pure white the other way around. Should I leave at High or is there some setting wrong on my pc?
- Also when using PC, if I set anything other than 4.2.0 YCbCr on the nvidia settings I get no image while on 4K@60hz. I can change 4.2.0 from 8 to 12 bits, but RGB, 4.2.2 and 4.4.4 all result on a black screen.
- The other day I was watching something on Netflix on my ps4 and while on PC Mode in the input I noticed the colors seemed to auto correct. There was a scene where during different moments the walls on the background went from white to a light sky blue. Every time there was a cut it would take 1 or 2 seconds most of the image would switch from one color to the other. I checked back later without PC mode and it didn't happen that way. Could it be the auto color space instead of using wide or extended?
- Lastly, when I'm not using the PC mode, every time the screen goes black and then something comes back again, the image starts with very low lightning and then goes normal in about 3 of 4 seconds. I've disable all the dynamic settings, so it shouldn't be that.
Does anyone know what I'm doing wrong? Sorry if this isn't the place to ask for help with this.
- When using Black Level Low with my pc, I see some loss of detail. For example, when using whatsapp web there are some grey lines separating different conversations when using black level high, but I see pure white the other way around. Should I leave at High or is there some setting wrong on my pc?
- Also when using PC, if I set anything other than 4.2.0 YCbCr on the nvidia settings I get no image while on 4K@60hz. I can change 4.2.0 from 8 to 12 bits, but RGB, 4.2.2 and 4.4.4 all result on a black screen.
- The other day I was watching something on Netflix on my ps4 and while on PC Mode in the input I noticed the colors seemed to auto correct. There was a scene where during different moments the walls on the background went from white to a light sky blue. Every time there was a cut it would take 1 or 2 seconds most of the image would switch from one color to the other. I checked back later without PC mode and it didn't happen that way. Could it be the auto color space instead of using wide or extended?
- Lastly, when I'm not using the PC mode, every time the screen goes black and then something comes back again, the image starts with very low lightning and then goes normal in about 3 of 4 seconds. I've disable all the dynamic settings, so it shouldn't be that.
Does anyone know what I'm doing wrong? Sorry if this isn't the place to ask for help with this.
You're right - I was able to fix the banding with your instructions.
If so, you can either manual switch to 4:2:0 everytime you launch HDR, or just leave forced 4:2:0 for everything.