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Samaritan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,696
Tacoma, Washington
So I'm starting to toy around with connecting my PC to my B7 for the first time. Do you have any recommendations for which of these settings I should go with? Right now I'm using your Xbox One HDR Option 2 @ YCbCr420. Should I be using 444? RGB? Disable PC mode altogether?
 
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P40L0

P40L0

Member
Jun 12, 2018
7,623
Italy
So I'm starting to toy around with connecting my PC to my B7 for the first time. Do you have any recommendations for which of these settings I should go with? Right now I'm using your Xbox One HDR Option 2 @ YCbCr420. Should I be using 444? RGB? Disable PC mode altogether?
PC is another kind of beast to setup compared to console, especially for PC HDR gaming where it's a lot more hit and miss or unnecessarily complicated.
I would use X1X Option 2 for SDR + 4:4:4 (if you're not playing HDR games on PC), otherwise X1X Option 1 (to make sure input lag always stays low both in SDR and HDR) + 4:2:2.
 

da1eb7150

Member
May 13, 2019
550
PC is another kind of beast to setup compared to console, especially for PC HDR gaming where it's a lot more hit and miss or unnecessarily complicated.
I would use X1X Option 2 for SDR + 4:4:4 (if you're not playing HDR games on PC), otherwise X1X Option 1 (to make sure input lag always stays low both in SDR and HDR) + 4:2:2.
Do you have any settings used for gears 5 from the tech test ready for the game tonight at 9
 
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P40L0

P40L0

Member
Jun 12, 2018
7,623
Italy
I would exactly use Option 1 in the OP for both X1X and TV settings, then I would just in-game calibrate Gears 5 following its instructions (make logos fade when asked and/or making them slightly visible and visible etc.), as it was also for Gears 4.
 
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P40L0

P40L0

Member
Jun 12, 2018
7,623
Italy
Gears 5 HDR Calibration:
  1. Use "Option 1" X1X HDR preset in the OP (both for Console and TV);
  2. Use the following in-game HDR settings:
    • Contrast 50 (Default)
    • Brightness 140 (Default) or 100 (if you play in a pitch black room)
    • HDR Brightness 4.000
If you prefer "Option 2":
  • Use "Option 2" X1X HDR preset in the OP (both for Console and TV);
  • Use the following in-game HDR settings:
    • Contrast 50 (Default)
    • Brightness 140 (Default) or 100 (if you play in a pitch black room)
    • HDR Brightness 2.000
 
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GReeeeN

Senior Analyst at GSD
Verified
Mar 6, 2018
329
Gears 5 HDR Calibration:
  1. Use "Option 1" X1X HDR preset in the OP (both for Console and TV);
  2. Use the following in-game HDR settings:
    • Contrast 50 (Default)
    • Brightness 140 (Default)
    • HDR Brightness 4.000
If you prefer "Option 2":
  • Use "Option 2" X1X HDR preset in the OP (both for Console and TV);
  • Use the following in-game HDR settings:
    • Contrast 70
    • Brightness 140 (Default)
    • HDR Brightness 2.000
Thank you !
 
Oct 28, 2017
177
Gears 5 HDR Calibration:
  1. Use "Option 1" X1X HDR preset in the OP (both for Console and TV);
  2. Use the following in-game HDR settings:
    • Contrast 50 (Default)
    • Brightness 140 (Default)
    • HDR Brightness 4.000
If you prefer "Option 2":
  • Use "Option 2" X1X HDR preset in the OP (both for Console and TV);
  • Use the following in-game HDR settings:
    • Contrast 70
    • Brightness 140 (Default)
    • HDR Brightness 2.000
Gears 5 hdr on pc is really bright so I had to bump down the brightness to the lowest setting using option 1 settings. Should I switch to option 2 settings in this case? Is the bump in contrast to tackle the elevates black level?
 
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P40L0

P40L0

Member
Jun 12, 2018
7,623
Italy
Gears 5 hdr on pc is really bright so I had to bump down the brightness to the lowest setting using option 1 settings. Should I switch to option 2 settings in this case? Is the bump in contrast to tackle the elevates black level?
Yes, apparently Gears 5 have slightly elevated black levels by default (probably intentional in order to make darkest details more visible), but Option 1 is based on High Dynamic Contrast that, even calibrated, always tends to slightly crush blacks, therefore it should counter the default Gears 5 contrast already.

Option 2, based on HDR Standard, is generally super bright and with the opposite trend (slightly elevated blacks and more highlight clipping), so raising Gears 5 Contrast value should make the PQ a bit darker, but not so much.

I wouldn't touch Gears 5 in-game Brightness as the default values seems the most balanced, while HDR Brightness depends on which type of tone map is used by the TV (4.000 nits of HDR Game Vs. 2.000 nits of PC HDR Standard).
 
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Arkanius

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,144
Sorry for the bump guys. What is the consensus regarding the 2017 OLEDs.

Was PC Mode fixed for HDR? Is it safe to use Standard mode with it and without banding ?

What about Game Mode HDR (non pc input). Was the brightness fixed ?
 
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P40L0

P40L0

Member
Jun 12, 2018
7,623
Italy
Sorry for the bump guys. What is the consensus regarding the 2017 OLEDs.

Was PC Mode fixed for HDR? Is it safe to use Standard mode with it and without banding ?

What about Game Mode HDR (non pc input). Was the brightness fixed ?
HDR Game was improved and not totally fixed, but latest (and definitive) calibration named "Option 1" in the OP looks superb still, and plays great with steady low input lag.

PC Mode and HDR Standard got fixed and is now accurate picture wise with the "Option 2" calibration in the OP, but input lag seems somewhat higher compared to HDR Game so this could be a showstopper for many.

Based on how it looks/feels to you, this is why there are now 2 final and solid Options to choose in the end.

Personally, I'm now an happy camper with Option 1 and generally setting in-games HDR Brightness level to 4.000 nits.
 

Arkanius

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,144
HDR Game was improved and not totally fixed, but latest (and definitive) calibration named "Option 1" in the OP looks superb still, and plays great with steady low input lag.

PC Mode and HDR Standard got fixed and is now accurate picture wise with the "Option 2" calibration in the OP, but input lag seems somewhat higher compared to HDR Game so this could be a showstopper for many.

Based on how it looks/feels to you, this is why there are now 2 final and solid Options to choose in the end.

Personally, I'm now an happy camper with Option 1 and generally setting in-games HDR Brightness level to 4.000 nits.

I think I'll keep using HDR Game Mode then with normal input just to be sure that there is no added input lag.
 

rayhorakhty

Member
Jul 30, 2019
49
I've been running a 2016 model as a PC monitor for 4 years of heavy usage and no burn in. I've tried ultra-wides, gsync monitors, projectors, and it's always the stunning picture quality that these things put out that just can't compare.
 

Ushay

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,351
Never had burn-in issues in over 2 years of mixed usage.
I use my B7A as a PC monitor and i haven't had any issues.
I actually have my OLED light setting to around max under all picture conditions, which isn't recommended due to higher risk of IR/Burn in and Ive had 0 issues with gaming for long sessions.

Thanks for the responses guys. Gives me a little more confidence to take the plunge, as I keep hearing how the image quality and response times are no contest compared to QLED panels .. burn in was my only concern.

Out of interest whats the longest time you guys game for?
 
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P40L0

P40L0

Member
Jun 12, 2018
7,623
Italy
Out of interest whats the longest time you guys game for?
Generally I play an average of 2-3 hours sessions, but it often happened to have 6-7 hours sessions during w/e or playing particularly great games, with no issues... ;)

As stated before, as long as you avoid playing video with static logos all the time (as CNN 24/7 channel) for over 10 hours a day, every day, for weeks/months, you will never experience permanent burn-in.

Very rarely you could perceive some temporal image retention due to static OS Dashboard or Pause menus left on for too long, but as soon as video change to something else it's gone pretty quickly.

TL:DR Don't worry about it.
 

Manac0r

Member
Oct 30, 2017
435
UK
Thanks for the responses guys. Gives me a little more confidence to take the plunge, as I keep hearing how the image quality and response times are no contest compared to QLED panels .. burn in was my only concern.

Out of interest whats the longest time you guys game for?

A good video to watch about Burn in, from the man himself Vincent Teoh

 

FinalDOOM

Member
Aug 7, 2019
45
Waiting Gears 5 (standard edition) release day, I recently re-installed and played Gears 4, and at the same time I finished Man of Medan, both games played in HDR using option 1 with DC medium.
It is absurd how the two games look different in HDR: Man of Medan is extremely dark, with horrible grays instead of blacks, at the point that i found difficult to actually see entire scenes and to finish the game. On the other hand, Gears 4 looks superb and super bright, even with DC set to medium, and offer an actual HDR luminance slider that really works.

This demonstrates that, aside from tv HDR brightness (or not), a big difference is found in HDR implementation. If every game looked like Gears 4 (and Gears 5, I hope), we probably wouldn't even talk about dim HDR game mode.
 

Maverick-Swe

Member
Nov 26, 2017
327
Sweden
Waiting Gears 5 (standard edition) release day, I recently re-installed and played Gears 4, and at the same time I finished Man of Medan, both games played in HDR using option 1 with DC medium.
It is absurd how the two games look different in HDR: Man of Medan is extremely dark, with horrible grays instead of blacks, at the point that i found difficult to actually see entire scenes and to finish the game. On the other hand, Gears 4 looks superb and super bright, even with DC set to medium, and offer an actual HDR luminance slider that really works.

This demonstrates that, aside from tv HDR brightness (or not), a big difference is found in HDR implementation. If every game looked like Gears 4 (and Gears 5, I hope), we probably wouldn't even talk about dim HDR game mode.
Yes there's a reference group assembled by Ms and Sony but sadly not every developer seems to take part. Hopefully in some time more games will deliver true hdr and not mess it up. Which we have experienced in some time now. Even worse when some developers are creating their own hdr implementation like Rockstar with rdr2 with poor results.
www.flatpanelshd.com

Sony, Microsoft form interest group to improve HDR gaming experience

The proposed initiatives also change how a game console and TV interoperate.
 
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GReeeeN

Senior Analyst at GSD
Verified
Mar 6, 2018
329
HDR Game Mode (Non PC Input):

Yes, this is dimmer than P40L0's suggestions, but I've found the tradeoffs to get the brighter image just weren't worth it to me. Also worth noting that this isn't actually that dim, especially if you can set in game HDR brightness to 4000 nits. Still an amazing upgrade over SDR.

OLED Light: 100 (should always be set to max for HDR)
Contrast: 100
Brightness: 50
Sharpness: 10 (0 is technically more correct, but I sit relatively far away and like the slightly added sharpness)
Color: 55
Tint: 0
Color Temperature: W45
Dynamic Contrast: OFF
Dynamic Color: OFF
Super Resolution: OFF
Color Gamut: AUTO
Gamma: MEDIUM (Forced)
Noise Reduction: OFF
MPEG Noise Reduction: OFF
Black Level: LOW
Real Cinema: OFF (Forced)
Motion Eye Care: OFF
TruMotion: OFF (Forced)

Let me know what you guys think, just remember a lot of this comes down to preference and you should use whatever looks good to you.

Any particular reason why the HDR Game Mode has Dynamic Contract set to OFF?, I thought this needs to be set to LOW at the very least to get some sort of tone mapping?

Giving these settings a shot because HIGH Dynamic Contrast makes the image looks really weird and shiny, but these setting appear to make the image really dark?
 
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P40L0

P40L0

Member
Jun 12, 2018
7,623
Italy
Gears 5 HDR Calibration:
  1. Use "Option 1" X1X HDR preset in the OP (both for Console and TV);
  2. Use the following in-game HDR settings:
    • Contrast 50 (Default)
    • Brightness 100
    • HDR Brightness 4.000
If you prefer "Option 2":
  • Use "Option 2" X1X HDR preset in the OP (both for Console and TV);
  • Use the following in-game HDR settings:
    • Contrast 50 (Default)
    • Brightness 100
    • HDR Brightness 2.000
Updated
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,385
Any particular reason why the HDR Game Mode has Dynamic Contract set to OFF?, I thought this needs to be set to LOW at the very least to get some sort of tone mapping?

Giving these settings a shot because HIGH Dynamic Contrast makes the image looks really weird and shiny, but these setting appear to make the image really dark?
Normally setting dynamic contrast to low enables 'Active HDR', but it's not available in game mode. Instead it just enables traditional dynamic contrast, which just raises/lowers black levels and brightness depending on what's on screen, producing a more inaccurate picture. And yes, it is darker. In game mode, LG tone maps everything assuming the max is 4000 nits. So for example if a game doesn't supply any calibration and only ever reaches 1000 nits, it's going to look dim because the TV is tone mapping for a much brighter setting.

Unfortunately there's no good fix for this since Active HDR, which analyzes every frame and adjusts the tone mapping accordingly, isn't available in game mode. The only option is Dynamic Contrast, which artificially boosts brightness and can produce some weird results and personally isn't worth the extra brightness for me. Especially in games that you can calibrate to 4000 nits, which look plenty bright in game mode.
 

markb1980

Member
Dec 18, 2018
68
Why do we need to set this at 4000 when the LG C7 has a max peek brightness of approx 750? I am trying to get my head around this? If I use the sun image it changes after I have set the slider to around 900? So shouldn't it be set lower rather than higher seems the tv only does 750 nits?
 
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P40L0

P40L0

Member
Jun 12, 2018
7,623
Italy
Normally setting dynamic contrast to low enables 'Active HDR', but it's not available in game mode. Instead it just enables traditional dynamic contrast, which just raises/lowers black levels and brightness depending on what's on screen, producing a more inaccurate picture. And yes, it is darker. In game mode, LG tone maps everything assuming the max is 4000 nits. So for example if a game doesn't supply any calibration and only ever reaches 1000 nits, it's going to look dim because the TV is tone mapping for a much brighter setting.

Unfortunately there's no good fix for this since Active HDR, which analyzes every frame and adjusts the tone mapping accordingly, isn't available in game mode. The only option is Dynamic Contrast, which artificially boosts brightness and can produce some weird results and personally isn't worth the extra brightness for me. Especially in games that you can calibrate to 4000 nits, which look plenty bright in game mode.
High DC is the only way to achieve both low input lag and the closest Luminance + Accuracy in many HDR contents (both games and HDR Blu-Rays) compared to calibrated HDR Technicolor Expert + Active HDR.

On Medium could look perfect in some occasion, while super dim in many others, therefore results to be far less consistent (even manually adjusting maximum HDR nits to 4.000, e.g. Forza Horizon 4, where in daylight and bright/sunny scene the Luminance is super dim and nowhere near to where it should be).

The negative effects of High DC can mostly be offset with latest tuned up "Option 1" profile in the OP (if followed properly both for the Console and the TV), and the remaining difference compared to perfect accuracy are mostly negligible.

That said, everything is subjective in the end, and that's why we have different Options and different settings to tune up until fully satisfied, so feel free to experiment as you wish... ;)
 
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P40L0

P40L0

Member
Jun 12, 2018
7,623
Italy
Why do we need to set this at 4000 when the LG C7 has a max peek brightness of approx 750? I am trying to get my head around this? If I use the sun image it changes after I have set the slider to around 900? So shouldn't it be set lower rather than higher seems the tv only does 750 nits?
TV is 900 nits, but both HDR Game and HDR Technicolor Expert profiles are meant to fully accept up to 4.000 nits contents and "tone map" them at best for it's 900 nits display, helped with Dynamic Tone Mapping and Dynamic Contrast features for best results.
 

Eggiem

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,777
One thing I noticed was that Dolby Vision often has dimmer highlights and can look less stunning but more realistic. Maybe its because of the brighter dynamic tone mapping in HDR mode with dynamic contrast set to low. You can clearly see it when you compare red LEDS in the halo jump scene from MI6 Fallout (I used a HDR youtube vid and my UHD player).
 
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P40L0

P40L0

Member
Jun 12, 2018
7,623
Italy
One thing I noticed was that Dolby Vision often has dimmer highlights and can look less stunning but more realistic. Maybe its because of the brighter dynamic tone mapping in HDR mode with dynamic contrast set to low. You can clearly see it when you compare red LEDS in the halo jump scene from MI6 Fallout (I used a HDR youtube vid and my UHD player).
It depends on which Dolby Vision preset you're using.
For example DV Cinema is generally dimmer with dimmer highlights compared to DV Home Cinema, but more accurate.

I also found that DV Game Mode have brighter highlights compared to DV Cinema, but once setup similarly, it can be also very accurate, and also with same low input lag of HDR Game mode.

I really cannot wait for future Dolby Vision games. They will look and play stellar also on LG 2017 OLEDs.
 

Samaritan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,696
Tacoma, Washington
It depends on which Dolby Vision preset you're using.
For example DV Cinema is generally dimmer with dimmer highlights compared to DV Home Cinema, but more accurate.

I also found that DV Game Mode have brighter highlights compared to DV Cinema, but once setup similarly, it can be also very accurate, and also with same low input lag of HDR Game mode.

I really cannot wait for future Dolby Vision games. They will look and play stellar also on LG 2017 OLEDs.
Would you say DV Game Mode configured the way you have it in the spreadsheet can be more accurate than DV Home Cinema? The last three movies I've watched have all been Dolby Vision and it's starting to bother me how dim they can appear. I'm not expecting my HDR movies to look like rainbow unicorn puke, but there's times where DV films look uncomfortably close to SD and it's really starting to annoy me.
 

Eggiem

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,777
It depends on which Dolby Vision preset you're using.
For example DV Cinema is generally dimmer with dimmer highlights compared to DV Home Cinema, but more accurate.

I also found that DV Game Mode have brighter highlights compared to DV Cinema, but once setup similarly, it can be also very accurate, and also with same low input lag of HDR Game mode.

I really cannot wait for future Dolby Vision games. They will look and play stellar also on LG 2017 OLEDs.
I use Dolby Vision Cinema Home or Standard because these look like the brightest for me. But they are still a little bit darker than HDR with Dynamic contrast low. Has to be the different mastering.
 
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P40L0

P40L0

Member
Jun 12, 2018
7,623
Italy
Would you say DV Game Mode configured the way you have it in the spreadsheet can be more accurate than DV Home Cinema? The last three movies I've watched have all been Dolby Vision and it's starting to bother me how dim they can appear. I'm not expecting my HDR movies to look like rainbow unicorn puke, but there's times where DV films look uncomfortably close to SD and it's really starting to annoy me.
DV Game setup as DV Cinema is much more accurate compared to DV Home Cinema.
Give it a spin with the X1X DV settings in the OP, and let me know what you think. ;)
 
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P40L0

P40L0

Member
Jun 12, 2018
7,623
Italy
Gears 5 HDR Calibration:
  1. Use "Option 1" X1X HDR preset in the OP (both for Console and TV);
  2. Use the following in-game HDR settings:
    • Contrast 50 (Default)
    • Brightness 140 (Default)
    • HDR Brightness 4.000
If you prefer "Option 2":
  • Use "Option 2" X1X HDR preset in the OP (both for Console and TV);
  • Use the following in-game HDR settings:
    • Contrast 50 (Default)
    • Brightness 140 (Default)
    • HDR Brightness 2.000
Updated one final time after 3 hours testing.
Default values remains the best choice, except HDR Brightness value that must be tweaked according to the tone mapping and presets used by the TV.

The Coalition have just baked the best looking and best HDR Game ever made so far. Gears 5 it's just unbelievably good on LG OLED!
 

Leo-Tyrant

Member
Jan 14, 2019
5,091
San Jose, Costa Rica
Updated one final time after 3 hours testing.
Default values remains the best choice, except HDR Brightness value that must be tweaked according to the tone mapping and presets used by the TV.

The Coalition have just baked the best looking and best HDR Game ever made so far. Gears 5 it's just unbelievably good on LG OLED!

Thanks P40L0. On top of this, any other change you would recommend on a C8? (Dynamic tone-mapping = ON)
 

markb1980

Member
Dec 18, 2018
68
Updated one final time after 3 hours testing.
Default values remains the best choice, except HDR Brightness value that must be tweaked according to the tone mapping and presets used by the TV.

The Coalition have just baked the best looking and best HDR Game ever made so far. Gears 5 it's just unbelievably good on LG OLED!

Agree with these settings. 100 brightness on the 7 series is too dark 140 is about bang on.
 
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P40L0

P40L0

Member
Jun 12, 2018
7,623
Italy
Thanks P40L0. On top of this, any other change you would recommend on a C8? (Dynamic tone-mapping = ON)
Yes, on 2018 models I recommend using Game Console input + HDR Game preset with same settings as calibrated HDR Technicolor Expert, then enabling Dynamic Tone Mapping for best results.

Also remember to check YCC 422 on X1X Video options.
 

GReeeeN

Senior Analyst at GSD
Verified
Mar 6, 2018
329
High DC is the only way to achieve both low input lag and the closest Luminance + Accuracy in many HDR contents (both games and HDR Blu-Rays) compared to calibrated HDR Technicolor Expert + Active HDR.

On Medium could look perfect in some occasion, while super dim in many others, therefore results to be far less consistent (even manually adjusting maximum HDR nits to 4.000, e.g. Forza Horizon 4, where in daylight and bright/sunny scene the Luminance is super dim and nowhere near to where it should be).

The negative effects of High DC can mostly be offset with latest tuned up "Option 1" profile in the OP (if followed properly both for the Console and the TV), and the remaining difference compared to perfect accuracy are mostly negligible.

That said, everything is subjective in the end, and that's why we have different Options and different settings to tune up until fully satisfied, so feel free to experiment as you wish... ;)
Might be something on my end then, because as soon as I enter HDR game mode with Dynamic Contract set to High, the image looks incredibly different to the other HDR presents in WebOs, etc.

It is drastically brighter which is good but as a result also has a very artificial shiny/ effect to everything. I can confirm this is both using a PS4 and PC.
 
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P40L0

P40L0

Member
Jun 12, 2018
7,623
Italy
Might be something on my end then, because as soon as I enter HDR game mode with Dynamic Contract set to High, the image looks incredibly different to the other HDR presents in WebOs, etc.

It is drastically brighter which is good but as a result also has a very artificial shiny/ effect to everything. I can confirm this is both using a PS4 and PC.
No worries, if you prefer the better accuracy of Medium DC it's perfectly fine.
Just remember to dial back the same settings of HDR Technicolor to HDR Game profile.
 
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P40L0

P40L0

Member
Jun 12, 2018
7,623
Italy
Gears 5 HDR Calibration:
  1. Use "Option 1" X1X HDR preset in the OP (both for Console and TV);
  2. Use the following in-game HDR settings:
    • Contrast 50 (Default)
    • Brightness 140 (Default) or 100 (if you play in a pitch black room)
    • HDR Brightness 4.000
If you prefer "Option 2":
  • Use "Option 2" X1X HDR preset in the OP (both for Console and TV);
  • Use the following in-game HDR settings:
    • Contrast 50 (Default)
    • Brightness 140 (Default) or 100 (if you play in a pitch black room)
    • HDR Brightness 2.000
Gears 5 is such a beast in HDR.
Plenty of contrasts and highlights everywhere that can get REALLY bright in some occasion.

If you play in a totally "pitch-black" room, Brightness at 100 could actually save your retina, so do not underestimate it if you feel eyes strain after regular sessions in a dark room ^_^'
 

Manac0r

Member
Oct 30, 2017
435
UK
On the other hand the HDR in Bordelands 3 is underwhelming... was a main factor for which platform I was to purchase on. Can barely notice it....??!!??
 

da1eb7150

Member
May 13, 2019
550
Gears 5 is such a beast in HDR.
Plenty of contrasts and highlights everywhere that can get REALLY bright in some occasion.

If you play in a totally "pitch-black" room, Brightness at 100 could actually save your retina, so do not underestimate it if you feel eyes strain after regular sessions in a dark room ^_^'
Why if the TV tone maps to 4000 does fifa 19band the new fifa 20 demo blend at around 25 if fifa maps to 10000 nits
 
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P40L0

P40L0

Member
Jun 12, 2018
7,623
Italy
All profiles in the OP updated to v7.2.3 , with the following changes:
  • NEW HDR Game calibration (Option 1) , still based on High DC but with the following fixes:
    • No more black crush while preserving true blacks (with Brightness: 55);
    • No more washed out or "weird" colors (with Color Gamut: Wide + Color: 50 + Color Temp: W45 + Dynamic Color: HIGH)!
  • Option 1 is now tagged as "Recommended";
  • Best Sharpness value is back to 10.
No in-game changes needed.

Give it a try and let me know what you think ;)

Enjoy,
P