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Let's Talk About The Unusual Transformation of Console Warriors Recently
- Thread starter BabyDontHurtMe
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Being multi platform is definitely a game changer. I know that not everyone can do that financially which is fine. But as someone who was firmly in the xbox 360 camp and then shifted because of their lack of first party I cared about, its crazy how much my outlook on the industry has changed (not being a shitty teenager has probably helped as well). All this console warrior shit just seems so petty now.
I hate sounding like "back in my days!!" Grandpa Simpson, but console wars during early '00s were absolutely toxic. It was mostly fueled by the corporations themselves. At gaming conventions in the 90s, Nintendo and Sega flat out mocked and trash talked each other. I believe there were ads where Sonic makes fun of Mario and vice versa....the amount of battles fought over Nintendo's 64 bit vs Sony's 32 Bit...oof. Cartridges vs CD-roms. Back then, there was rampant homophobia and sexism that was accepted as well as part of gaming discourse. "Sony/MS/Nintendo is gay" or "Gaylo" etc. All of that is thankfully done away. For thr most part...
Nowadays it seems tame by comparison to be honest but to be perfectly clear i am not in the thick of it these days and mostly go by era's gaming section. But I never see any of the three console heads lob grenades at each other and I don't know how it is in other websites but the bigotry has also been cleaned. I guess all the shitty gamergaters fucked off into 8chan.
Nowadays it seems tame by comparison to be honest but to be perfectly clear i am not in the thick of it these days and mostly go by era's gaming section. But I never see any of the three console heads lob grenades at each other and I don't know how it is in other websites but the bigotry has also been cleaned. I guess all the shitty gamergaters fucked off into 8chan.
Agreed, this really is nothing new. Console warriors have always been corporate warriors and they have always been hypocrites.
I think there's been a shift because there is more parity in specs than ever before. No more talking about the sound chips in Sega vs Nintendo. No more talking about the weirdly designed Cell architecture. No more talking about hd DVD vs Blu-ray. Read/write speeds or capacity. The consoles are mostly offering the same under the hood (besides Nintendo). And so fanboys have to find something else to argue about when most games play roughly the same and exclusives are disappearing. Remember when Tekken was exclusive? Yea, I forgot about that too.
Must just be the forums I frequent then. I remember a time when Gaf/Era and Reddit were alight with it and almost painfully blatant in their bias. In recent years I feel like at least on those forums, that sentiment has relaxed.
It's absurd, but I prefer it to these people doing the same with politics.
Two years of watching thinly veiled console warriors try to call each other out for "hypocrisy" concerning acquisitions has made a part of me long for the time when they were calling each other stupid insult nicknames, like "xbot" or "sony pony", instead of this deniable bullshit with weird moralizing thrown in.
"Ah so you were ok with x acquiring y, but not a acquiring z? How curious!"
So fucking tedious to read over and over again, holy shit.
"Ah so you were ok with x acquiring y, but not a acquiring z? How curious!"
So fucking tedious to read over and over again, holy shit.
I don't think it's a transformation rather its a shift in where they like to focus their veiled warrior mentality, before it used to the specs of the system and games that each other platform didn't have and while the latter is still present to some extent, it's now (like you mentioned OP) more of a thing where they just want their "business daddies" throwing their money to fill their consolidation boners.
This is not exactly the same, but on the PC hardware side of things, I think I noticed a change when people who were discussing whether AMD or Intel or Nvidia are the best were not just people in high school or college with a passion to reinforce their actions in their hobby, but grew up to be adults that had access to buying stock of these companies thanks to the online services and apps that have facilitated the practice in the last decade or so.
Once you start making money because Nvidia is dominating, then it changes things, it is not a hobby anymore; your are defending your own financial choices.
Once you start making money because Nvidia is dominating, then it changes things, it is not a hobby anymore; your are defending your own financial choices.
What the OP's analysis of "corporate warriors" reminded me of are football (or "soccer" for you Yankees) fans: The amount of faux business style, managerial parlance and bullshit you can encounter talking to people really invested in premier League football is astounding. They will go into details about how good an investment of millions of (insert relevant currency here) into a player was, because now he is in his prime or will benefit from the rest of the team. How the team should be looking out for better investors because investor Y has recently did X and that is hurting their sales and who knows what that means for how much money they are going to invest into the team. And on and on and on.
All of which is to say that this is a common process, the neoliberalisation of communal hobbies, the inclusion of market economics into fandom as an explanatory factor. In other words: to the process of tribalism*, where people can experience a communal sense of belonging - which is very important and thus often exhibited by adolescents - by being for Team A and not Team B, comes the mythos and ontology of market economics - which is very important as an ideological framework to exist within 21st century society.
It is a fascinating thing, sure. But it is not exclusive to video games. More importantly, if we criticise it we should criticise it as a process existing within a greater whole.
*I am not fond of the word "tribalism" as it is (particularly in the sense evoked here) a colonial use of the word. If someone can hint at a better term to be used here, I'd be very grateful.
All of which is to say that this is a common process, the neoliberalisation of communal hobbies, the inclusion of market economics into fandom as an explanatory factor. In other words: to the process of tribalism*, where people can experience a communal sense of belonging - which is very important and thus often exhibited by adolescents - by being for Team A and not Team B, comes the mythos and ontology of market economics - which is very important as an ideological framework to exist within 21st century society.
It is a fascinating thing, sure. But it is not exclusive to video games. More importantly, if we criticise it we should criticise it as a process existing within a greater whole.
*I am not fond of the word "tribalism" as it is (particularly in the sense evoked here) a colonial use of the word. If someone can hint at a better term to be used here, I'd be very grateful.
Not even close. Go to any old Japan sales charts and you'll see it littered with Nintendo fanboys. The complete domination of Nintendo in that market allows them to act the same way that xbox fanboys do with the acquisition talk.
I had to leave Twitter since console wars are really bad over there and it just sucks the fun out of any gaming discussion. The thing that gets me though is I sometimes saw people owning all consoles and still console warring (in this example they were playing ratchet and clank on ps5 and bragging because they found textures that had low graphic fidelity/ bugs / bushes that didn't interact).
And I remember thinking like. If you own a console, do you not want the games that release on it to be good?! It makes no sense to own a console just to hate what releases on it. Even from a personal perspective, I wonder how much that ruins gaming as a hobby for the person doing it.
And I remember thinking like. If you own a console, do you not want the games that release on it to be good?! It makes no sense to own a console just to hate what releases on it. Even from a personal perspective, I wonder how much that ruins gaming as a hobby for the person doing it.
It's the other way around, people were really insecure because they didn't like the takes people were presenting in these threads based on the market data.
If the opinion that game X probably should also be on the system that has a market share of 80% percent in that market, is an issue for you in a thread dedicated to hardware/software sales that's probably more on you.
Many people just couldn't handle that they couldn't be fanboys like in the past because the number didn't support their opinions for the most part. The final part of that argument was just that Japan doesnt matter anymore because of how low sales for a certain plattforms had gotten.
While I agree that cheerleading acquisitions is weird, I also find hobbyists being negative about the possibilities of the last few big third-party publishers being swallowed up, and thus game series they've been a fan of for anything up to decades to go single-format, to be understandable. Essentially, where a discussion is us as hobbyists talking about the game series we like and their future, I get that. I just can't summon the same enthusiasm for talking about multinationals and mergers and finances when I don't have any interest or expertise in it.
User banned (2 weeks): Inflammatory point of comparison, prior ban for similar behavior
The statement "I can't be a console warrior, I own all systems." is the equivalent to someone saying they aren't racist because they have a black friend.
That is so alien to me. Why buy the other systems then? Aren't they just giving the company they dislike money? Is the end goal just to be able to shit on them?
Nintendo fanboys can fanboy it up with the best of them, but normally they focus their hostile fanboy energies on... each other and the particular Nintendo thing they happen to dislike.
Based on how I perceive it, I'd say Nintendo has console civil wars.
That and attempting to manifest Nintendo Directs through focused discussion takes a lot of energy :D
It may be tedious but I believe it is useful. People have a chance of learning something when facing their own biases.
Can't speak for this forum.
But when I was a teen just going into the internet the first time, my first forum was this console warry gaming forum where at least one user pretty much had an Xbox 360 simply so they could shit on it with more authority. Dude even had "OBJECTIVE CRITIC OF XBOX" as his tag.
I honestly feel like it is a thing that happens more frequently than you'd think.
It's often 'x is my main console, I only bought y for the exclusives'. Which is understandable on a hobbyist board where a load of the critically acclaimed titles are first party. Until it then goes into 'y totally sucks, I wish the platform holder went third party so I didn't *have* to buy y'. As if they are having their arm twisted into shelling out hundreds of pounds for multiple consoles as they are obligated to play everything, and the answer is for everything apart from their preferred platform to stop making hardware.
It's true that 'playground console wars' has turned into 'plausibly deniable acquisition wars' over the last few years, I agree with the thrust of the thread and your post here.
Other way around? You know there can be fanboys on both sides in those threads and I was showing an example about Nintendo fanboys b/c of the response to that person.
Yeah this is particularly gross behaviour when batting for multinationals. Especially when it's not like their aren't real controversies around multinationals (See: workplace abuse, Ubisoft etc). Also, any attempt for fans of x product to equivocate feeling hard done by over that product with communities that actually face oppression and bigotry is awful too.
I have a friend that I met online a few years ago that constantly talks about console stuff as if it's some kind of "us" vs. "them" competition. They're a swell person otherwise but every now and again they'll say some wild shit. Every bit of gaming news has to revolve around how good/bad this is for companies they like/dislike and it seems so tiring to constantly view everything through that lens.
Like, I understand being into the business side of things and discussing that aspect of the industry but coming at it from that tribal mentality is just so foreign to me. I can't imagine conjuring that sort of thinking in my head for long enough to not only verbalize it but not think that it's the stupidest thing I've ever said.
Having a preference is one thing. I have a preferred console because it's where I've built up my digital library since childhood. And if you're not able to afford every system I understand getting a bit invested in it, but turning that investment into toxicity as if it's some all-or-nothing proposition for "your" company to be on top is where the grown adults morph into elementary schoolers.
Like, I understand being into the business side of things and discussing that aspect of the industry but coming at it from that tribal mentality is just so foreign to me. I can't imagine conjuring that sort of thinking in my head for long enough to not only verbalize it but not think that it's the stupidest thing I've ever said.
Having a preference is one thing. I have a preferred console because it's where I've built up my digital library since childhood. And if you're not able to afford every system I understand getting a bit invested in it, but turning that investment into toxicity as if it's some all-or-nothing proposition for "your" company to be on top is where the grown adults morph into elementary schoolers.
A really horrible example of this I see lately is the thinly veiled "my console manufacturer treats it's employees less shitty than yours". Like I get the feeling they are gleeful bad news came out about a competitor as they have a good whataboutism to fend off concerns about thier side.
Console wars, even corporation pushed ones like above, were always about sales numbers.
And cheering on acquisitions for Gamepass actually makes sense outside of console warring, because it means more games for your subscription.
Well, personally, when I console war, I do it because....
I'm sure people disagree, but I do think the console warring BY AND LARGE on this site is actually pretty fine, overall. Sure, I and others can be ignorant (you can't really expect a gaming enthusiast forum to be full of only experts on every aspect of development and business). Sure, we all have our personal preferences and biases. Sure, sometimes people double down on egregious takes. But in general, I think the "console warring" here is pretty tame and far better controlled than how it is outside these walls.
I mean. Meh. Everyone's tolerance for bickering on the internet is different. [It's the only thing that brings me purpose in life.] But that doesn't mean it's in bad faith, necessarily. I bet even a lot of who people consider console warriors (here, at least) have plenty of takes that are less biased than average that just don't get spotlighted. Even on acquisitions, I think people dismiss acquisition talk out of hand as console warring automatically and never get beyond "acquisitions bad. consolidation bad. you're bad if you think there's anything good about it." And I just don't think that's true.
Perspective and perception.
I'm sure people disagree, but I do think the console warring BY AND LARGE on this site is actually pretty fine, overall. Sure, I and others can be ignorant (you can't really expect a gaming enthusiast forum to be full of only experts on every aspect of development and business). Sure, we all have our personal preferences and biases. Sure, sometimes people double down on egregious takes. But in general, I think the "console warring" here is pretty tame and far better controlled than how it is outside these walls.
I mean. Meh. Everyone's tolerance for bickering on the internet is different. [It's the only thing that brings me purpose in life.] But that doesn't mean it's in bad faith, necessarily. I bet even a lot of who people consider console warriors (here, at least) have plenty of takes that are less biased than average that just don't get spotlighted. Even on acquisitions, I think people dismiss acquisition talk out of hand as console warring automatically and never get beyond "acquisitions bad. consolidation bad. you're bad if you think there's anything good about it." And I just don't think that's true.
Perspective and perception.
Jim kept buying all the milk at the store so I showed him by buying the whole dairy farm 😈😈😈
It's all about clout
"I bought this so I can tell you it's terrible"
Or the classic
"My console is just sitting here collecting dust"
Yeah that's awful. 'My favourite multinational may systemically abuse its staff but fortunately (for me) it isn't quite as awful as yours, meaning I don't need to think about this at all but you need to stop playing your favourite games or you're complicit'.
They clearly don't care about either, just scoring points.
Hah, 'collecting dust', that old reliable games forum post. Probably one of those that's been around the longest, at least since 'droughts' were actually a thing back when the less successful consoles might only get a few hundred full price releases in it's lifespan and a large portion of those were shovelware.
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There is a lot of acquisition cheering but that tends to be more within internal communities with people preaching to the converted
The most annoying aspect on Era anyway is the clear and obvious bad faith arguments that derail and muddy a lot of discussion
Some threads just end up full of drive by posts saying "Era is embarrassing" or something along those lines, and if you check their post history they always come from some OT where they are bemoaning how people are being mean to their teams game/developer
The most annoying aspect on Era anyway is the clear and obvious bad faith arguments that derail and muddy a lot of discussion
Some threads just end up full of drive by posts saying "Era is embarrassing" or something along those lines, and if you check their post history they always come from some OT where they are bemoaning how people are being mean to their teams game/developer
To be honest as some have said I don't think the console warriors methods have changed that much.
I think what has changed is the state of competition in the market.
Note that you're not seeing any weird discourse with Nintendo fans, really its just MS and Sony where warriors are getting more fervent.
And that's simply because fans of both perceive the 'gap' between the two to be relatively closer.
When the gap is massive, there's less warz. Because the fans of the winner know they're 'winning' and are getting everything from it they want and those who are far behind know that any expectations are worthless. This is Nintendo in Japanese charts.
But because the gap for Sony vs MS is closing both sides are getting louder and more aggressive. The only thing thats different is the market shares.
I think what has changed is the state of competition in the market.
Note that you're not seeing any weird discourse with Nintendo fans, really its just MS and Sony where warriors are getting more fervent.
And that's simply because fans of both perceive the 'gap' between the two to be relatively closer.
When the gap is massive, there's less warz. Because the fans of the winner know they're 'winning' and are getting everything from it they want and those who are far behind know that any expectations are worthless. This is Nintendo in Japanese charts.
But because the gap for Sony vs MS is closing both sides are getting louder and more aggressive. The only thing thats different is the market shares.
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User banned (1 month): Antagonistic console war rhetoric, multiple prior bans for similar behavior
TBH, this is more indicative of how successful PlayStation Era has been in driving other gamers away from this forum than anything else. The console wars are still very much active basically everywhere else in the Internet.
I do think the fact that the last gen's console war was so short (Microsoft had faceplanted in the run up to the Xbox One's launch so hard that the war was over by E3 2014) that for a lot of new gamers this is the first console war they've participated in where there isn't an obvious winner. With that said...
I don't think this is as true as it used to be, or we'd hear a hell of a lot more whinging about how the Switch has been dominating the console market globally the past few years. Doesn't help that a) Xbox still isn't giving any sale figures for their hardware, or b) NPD is trying to peddle "dollar sales for hardware" as a metric that's useful for anyone outside of console warriors.
It's that whataboutism -shit. Deflect issues of favourite corporation/publisher/studio/lead/developer to others and paint "industry issues" so impossible huge and build-in that there can be nothing done than accept them as norm. "It's game industry, must consume latest 80€ AAA title to support developers".
It's getting to a point where I'm expecting soon street fighting between Sony zaibatsu and Microsoft Omnicorp gangs, a la Akira, to break soon.
The whole 'don't punish developers by not buying x new AAA game from shitty company' is a weird form of fanboy warz, yeah.
I think that's also an unfortunate side effect of where generic news or discussion threads on even a more heavily moderated space like Era ends up being a battleground for fanboys that treat their single format spaces like camps for console wars. Then they jump into the battleground to get a few shots off and hope they are sly enough to dodge moderation, meanwhile they report the crap out of the 'other side' doing the same, before retreating to sit and watch it from the safety of the gallery like Statler and Waldorf.
I for sure know that console warriors and console warring is a thing. We see people get warnings and bans for it on Era.
At the same time, I believe you generally find what you're looking for on the internet. The freedom and variety of the internet means we usually end up seeking out content that interests us.
If you don't want to see console warriors posting weird corporate cheerleading stuff, change your internet viewing behavior. I'm on this forum and AI feel like I rarely see or interact with console warriors or corporate cheerleaders.
At the same time, I believe you generally find what you're looking for on the internet. The freedom and variety of the internet means we usually end up seeking out content that interests us.
If you don't want to see console warriors posting weird corporate cheerleading stuff, change your internet viewing behavior. I'm on this forum and AI feel like I rarely see or interact with console warriors or corporate cheerleaders.
User banned (1 week): platform warring, a history of platform warring
If I had to rank console warriors:
3) Sony: the absolute worst, entitled and smug. Closest thing to a cult.
2) Microsoft: delusional, they don't have much to hold onto nowadays other than MS money muscle.
1) Nintendo: best people in the internet, only good vibes.
3) Sony: the absolute worst, entitled and smug. Closest thing to a cult.
2) Microsoft: delusional, they don't have much to hold onto nowadays other than MS money muscle.
1) Nintendo: best people in the internet, only good vibes.
I think that's kinda the point of the thread, in that it's drifted into a wider 'acquisition wars' and cheering industry consolidation into huge groups while looking at the remaining third parties (particularly the popular ones on Era like Square or Sega/Atlus) as options on a dessert menu. Rather than a clearer 'my favourite box vs yours', fought with hardware sales and lists of exclusives, which was the standard 'warz' for 20+ years. Not saying it's better or worse, but acknowledging the change in how warz presents itself these days.
This is impossible if you have views on things like pricing of games/services or acquisitions
Look at any thread where people are discussing $70 games for example, there are people who make good faith arguments on both sides of the debate, but also a torrent of console warriors mudding the water
@OP I'd also like to dispute the premise of your title that this is a recent thing too because there's been plenty of dumb console war meme statements off the top of my head
"Sad dad game"
"Sony greatness"
"Poverty service"
"Free99"
"Full price is art"
"I'll pay x for the best"
"My game is steal yours is McDonald's"
And so on and so on
This has been going on for literally decades
"Sad dad game"
"Sony greatness"
"Poverty service"
"Free99"
"Full price is art"
"I'll pay x for the best"
"My game is steal yours is McDonald's"
And so on and so on
This has been going on for literally decades
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