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ClickyCal'

Member
Oct 25, 2017
59,510
Literally all of these features work in the context of horror in a way that RE3 does not.

In fact Resident Evil fucking 4 has more features that one could ascribe to horror than RE3. Las plagas enemies, adaptive difficulty, more complex inventory management, slasher type arenas like the village, etc.
That isn't looking at things in comtext though. You have way way more inventory space, and the game gives you enough ammo to spray into the wall. The las plagas don't really add to the horror nearly as much as Nemesis did, at least in the original game. The chainsaw guy is scary, but there are only two in the game. And the regenorators too. Re3 is still considered scarier overall.
 
Oct 27, 2017
39,148
In this thread we learned that RE4 is a more survival horror game than 3.
high-gif-14.gif


No seriously, how is randomized enemies not a survival horror feature??? Going into an area not knowing what is lurking and not being sure if you have enough supplies to survive through the area if something decided to pop up, is the definition of survival horror.

Like really, plenty of features in RE3 are adapted by games in the series and even other survival horror games. There are plenty of fan patches to add randomizations to the original games and it is easy to know why. Randomization enhances the feeling of horror.

RE3 is one of the most important games in the series cause of two things, it ended the raccoon city saga and mechanics from it still pop up in other games like RE4, REmake 1 and 2. Even other games like Manhunt, GOW4 use features from it.
 
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ghostcrew

ghostcrew

The Shrouded Ghost
Administrator
Oct 27, 2017
30,351
This is a bit disingenuous. Let's be clear that the Gamecube release reviews for RE3 tanked because critics were mad they got a barely upscaled PS1 game with no added features or content.

You're right of course, you only have to look at the GameCube RE2 scores, which also largely sit in the 50sz Isn't this also true of later Code Veronica ports though?

Original CV got ~94%, later ports and rereleases got 60/70s because it's a Dreamcast port released in a post RE4/REmake world?
 

Keym

The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
9,191
RE3 can be RE3 as much as it wants to be. CV will still remain the more important game. We already know that Nemesis became 3 because of deals with Sony and a need for Capcom to boost its earnings. This fact will always remain true.
Sure. And CV was planned to be a spin-off game from the get-go, so I don't know where you were going with that argument. It was always going to be a side-game, aka not that important to the mainline games.
 

Lady Bow

Member
Nov 30, 2017
11,285
You're right of course, you only have to look at the GameCube RE2 scores, which also largely sit in the 50sz Isn't this also true of later Code Veronica ports though?

Original CV got ~94%, later ports and rereleases got 60/70s because it's a Dreamcast port released in a post RE4/REmake world?

I never played the Code Veronica X release on 360/PS3 but I do remember it having more content with it being the "director's cut" and all. Along with that I think the 3D environments and dynamic camera would hold up better for modern gamers than the blurry backgrounds of the PS1 era.
 
May 7, 2020
170
I never played the Code Veronica X release on 360/PS3 but I do remember it having more content with it being the "director's cut" and all. Along with that I think the 3D environments and dynamic camera would hold up better for modern gamers than the blurry backgrounds of the PS1 era.
I'm still annoyed that they didn't release the PS3 version on PS4, not sure what they were thinking there
 
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ghostcrew

ghostcrew

The Shrouded Ghost
Administrator
Oct 27, 2017
30,351
Sure. And CV was planned to be a spin-off game from the get-go, so I don't know where you were going with that argument. It was always going to be a side-game, aka not that important to the mainline games.

I don't know as if 'not that important to the mainline games' is really fair. The creators themselves said that it was always meant to be 'the true sequel to Resident Evil 2'. Yes, a spin-off game, but only the same as Resident Evil 3 Nemesis was originally a spin-off. CV and Nemesis were both spin-offs that moved course into being full mainline entries. One was the direct continuation of RE2 (Code Veronica) and one was "originally planned as a spin-off featuring a different protagonist" and referred to as Resident Evil 1.9 (Nemesis). The producer says that it was only called 'RE3' "to keep the titles of the PlayStation games consistent". So branding, decided months before release. I think either (or neither) of them could've realistically been called RE3.
 
Jun 18, 2018
1,100
Wait, didn't we have an identical topic a few months back?

Either way, consider me in the camp that disagrees. It's not as mechanically advanced as Nemesis. the story is boring and attempting to mix in further action based elements (first person, dual wielding,) don't do anything for the game.

If CV never existed, you wouldn't notice.
 

Mr_Zombie

Member
Oct 27, 2017
971
Poland
I never played the Code Veronica X release on 360/PS3 but I do remember it having more content with it being the "director's cut" and all. Along with that I think the 3D environments and dynamic camera would hold up better for modern gamers than the blurry backgrounds of the PS1 era.

That's a double edged sword. The 3D graphics were viewed as better when the game was released. However, nowadays even the blurry backgrounds from RE3 look better since they are far more detailed and atmospheric than the simple and blocky environment from Code Veronica. The HD version of CV at least added dynamic lighting and increased saturation and contrast. That version is much darker than the original, which was pretty light and colorful.
 

Keym

The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
9,191
I don't know as if 'not that important to the mainline games' is really fair. The creators themselves said that it was always meant to be 'the true sequel to Resident Evil 2'. Yes, a spin-off game, but only the same as Resident Evil 3 Nemesis was originally a spin-off. CV and Nemesis were both spin-offs that moved course into being full mainline entries. One was the direct continuation of RE2 (Code Veronica) and one was "originally planned as a spin-off featuring a different protagonist" and referred to as Resident Evil 1.9 (Nemesis). The producer says that it was only called 'RE3' "to keep the titles of the PlayStation games consistent". So branding, decided months before release. I think either (or neither) of them could've realistically been called RE3.
For the record, I agree with all of this! But that poster insists that CV was so much more important than 3, when in reality they were about the same.
 
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ghostcrew

ghostcrew

The Shrouded Ghost
Administrator
Oct 27, 2017
30,351
Wait, didn't we have an identical topic a few months back?

Absolutely missed that. I'll quote the OP from that thread here! Sorry Dreamboum !

Resident Evil 2 Remake was a great experience that I loved. Not everything was perfect (why expand the sewers of all locations???), but it felt like the proper return of the series that was introduced with RE7. The formula reinvented is just too good to pass up.

But, well, it seems like we are on track for RE2 Remake to become the only one of its kind. RE3, just like the original, stayed true to its action-packed roots, becoming the Hollywood Blockbuster it always was. It's not a bad thing, but it's a different thing. We have had more than a decade of action Resident Evil, and it's a shame that we have to go back to it so soon.

This is why Resident Evil has to turn its head towards what was often considered the real Resident Evil 3 at the time (and in everything but name). Resident Evil: Code Veronica.

Code Veronica has been recently more and more panned for feeling like an old-school game compared to RE3 that introduced the dodge mechanic, quick-turning and other quality of life changes. But in 2020, this is a strength, not a flaw. CV was the closest experience we had in line with the original RE2. It kept its emphasis on puzzles, backtracking, atmosphere and slow-paced adventure rather than action. If RE3 was the throughline that led to RE4. CV was the throughline that took from RE2. And it's true. Code Veronica was still a proper Resident Evil game that felt at odds with its action-leaning brethren. And its importance in the canon cannot be ignored. It moved the needle of the overall storyline and reintroduced several characters.

Now, I know it brought all the Matrix stuff and immortal Wesker, but it genuinely doesn't matter. The story going in a direction did not mean the formula of the game went the same way. It was still a proper survival horror through and through. Code Veronica's only negative legacy to the canon was that the story jumped the shark, not that it influenced later games to become Jason Bourne, which is the easiest thing they can fix in a remake in the first place! They are in full control of the continuity they want to display for future games (and Wesker is the best villain the series has ever had so you should be thankful anyway)

Things Code Veronica did right:
  • Stuck true to the roots of Resident Evil 2
  • Reintroduced Claire and Chris
  • Good variety of locations (Keep in mind RE0 just stuffed another mansion instead so CV was still high brow)
  • GREAT music
  • Lovely gothic horror atmosphere that made it different from the others (again, just look at what RE0 did next with its mindless rehashing of 1)
  • Good bosses that could been made even better (Imagine a remake of the Tyrant fight in the plane deck!)
  • Good enemy variety. The Bandersnatch can be made to become even better, we had classic enemies like the Hunter
  • They can't remove spiders from a remake this time since it's a BOSS
Screenshot_2020-04-08_Resident_Evil_-_Code_Veronica_X_Walkthrough_11_Antarctic_Facility_Pt_2.png


The environments are still super cool with that aesthetic. It was far less grey than people tries to make it look like nowadays

Screenshot_2020-04-07_1_Resident_Evil_Code_Veronica_X_HD_Remaster_Walkthrough_Longplay_Gameplay_No_C.png

Screenshot_2020-04-07_1_Resident_Evil_Code_Veronica_X_HD_Remaster_Walkthrough_Longplay_Gameplay_No_C.png


You went from Nazi Island to Antarctica and in-between you had to use a fucking submarine

Screenshot_2020-04-07_1_Resident_Evil_Code_Veronica_X_HD_Remaster_Walkthrough_Longplay_Gameplay_No_C.png


Good variety of enemies too

Screenshot_2020-04-08_Enemies_Resident_Evil_Code_Veronica_Evil_Resource2.png


Also the music!!! What a great score it was. I remember how exhausting it was to go through the graveyard and prison at the beginning of the game, just to finally hear this soothing music to make me relax, with a tinge of dissonance to keep you on your toes



Also the tyrant boss theme was incredible too. So many good tracks to pull from



Honestly, there is so much more good to the game than bad. I'd say they only need better voice acting and make Steve more likeable and the experience itself would be far better. The potential to make it an incredible game is just there for everyone to see. I hope it happens one day.
 

NDA-Man

Member
Mar 23, 2020
3,075
RE3 was the game that introduced the quick turn. Ammo crafting as you mentioned. The live selection choices. It was the first in the series to have an element of randomness with item drops, enemies and whatnot. It smoothed out parts of the controls and movement, allowing players to walk up and down stairs smoothly(which Code Veronica inexplicably took away). It added elements of environmental destruction to its gameplay.

Code Veronica added bad level design and unintentional comedy.

Sir, unintentional comedy was around since the beginning. Yes, CV has more of it, but in a series that started with the Master of Unlocking, and Carlos forgetting his accent while talking about how all the foxy ladies love his accent...
 

Miamiwesker

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,668
Miami
I have never seen so much revisionist history with a game before. CV was for sure the true RE3, it actually pushed the story forward. It had incredible graphics and was a big deal for capcom. At release it was no contest, RE3 was viewed as the lesser quick sequel to RE2 while CV was viewed as the next big leap. CV reviews blew away RE3. CV was far far better received by almost everyone. The small audience was addressed when CVX was released on PS2. It was never a side game, it's just not numbered, that's it.

And yes CV is better than RE3.
 

AuthenticM

Son Altesse Sérénissime
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
30,036
I'm glad it wasn't because it's an absolutely terrible game in every aspect.
 
May 7, 2020
170
Sir, unintentional comedy was around since the beginning. Yes, CV has more of it, but in a series that started with the Master of Unlocking, and Carlos forgetting his accent while talking about how all the foxy ladies love his accent...
Yea it's weird seeing CV getting hate for unintentional comedy as if the first 3 games didn't exist. Also I will always maintain that CV had the most disturbing imagery and plotlines of the entire series.

I have never seen so much revisionist history with a game before. CV was for sure the true RE3, it actually pushed the story forward. It had incredible graphics and was a big deal for capcom. At release it was no contest, RE3 was viewed as the lesser quick sequel to RE2 while CV was viewed as the next big leap. CV reviews blew away RE3. CV was far far better received by almost everyone. The small audience was addressed when CVX was released on PS2. It was never a side game, it's just not numbered, that's it.

And yes CV is better than RE3.
Its not revisionist history when people claim that a game that is literally called Resident Evil 3 is the third game in the franchise.
 

NDA-Man

Member
Mar 23, 2020
3,075
Yea it's weird seeing CV getting hate for unintentional comedy as if the first 3 games didn't exist. Also I will always maintain that CV had the most disturbing imagery and plotlines of the entire series.

Honestly... as much as I said CV wasn't a pioneer in unintentional comedy... I didn't find it disturbing at all. It's just too zany to be creepy in any way, honestly. If it got the Remake treatment and Alfred was less of a fop, and Steve less of a… Steve, maybe. Like... as a horror setting, it's too wacky to be very scary. As zany comedic thing, it's not nearly as entertaining as RE4's zaniness. So it's kind of in a gray middle zone of failing on both ends of the spectrum.

Plus... bringing Wesker back really I dunno, undercuts things? Like RE's always been sci-f fiction inspired, but it went full comicbook from RECV on.
 

Miamiwesker

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,668
Miami
Yea it's weird seeing CV getting hate for unintentional comedy as if the first 3 games didn't exist. Also I will always maintain that CV had the most disturbing imagery and plotlines of the entire series.


Its not revisionist history when people claim that a game that is literally called Resident Evil 3 is the third game in the franchise.

Not so much that. The idea that CV is a hated weird side game. That's bullshit.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,714
Yea it's weird seeing CV getting hate for unintentional comedy as if the first 3 games didn't exist. Also I will always maintain that CV had the most disturbing imagery and plotlines of the entire series.
RE2 and RE3's original releases are pretty consistent in tone, I don't think they really have the number of unintentional comedy moments that CV or the original RE1 have.

Plus every time Steve opens his mouth OR DOES WEIRD SHIT LIKE ALMOST KISS A SLEEPING CLAIRE it's just painful.
 
May 7, 2020
170
Not so much that. The idea that CV is a hated weird side game. That's bullshit.
Well I agree with that, I consider them both to be equally important to the series. CV is my third favourite after REmake and RE4

Honestly... as much as I said CV wasn't a pioneer in unintentional comedy... I didn't find it disturbing at all. It's just too zany to be creepy in any way, honestly. If it got the Remake treatment and Alfred was less of a fop, and Steve less of a… Steve, maybe. Like... as a horror setting, it's too wacky to be very scary. As zany comedic thing, it's not nearly as entertaining as RE4's zaniness. So it's kind of in a gray middle zone of failing on both ends of the spectrum.

Plus... bringing Wesker back really I dunno, undercuts things? Like RE's always been sci-f fiction inspired, but it went full comicbook from RECV on.
Maybe its just me but none of that Wesker stuff is that jarring. And yea Steve is an awful character but the backstory of the twins and their father (as well as the awesome music) really stuck with me. My favourite shot in all of RE is seeing their house way off at the top of the hill as you make your way up.

RE2 and RE3's original releases are pretty consistent in tone, I don't think they really have the number of unintentional comedy moments that CV or the original RE1 have.

Plus every time Steve opens his mouth OR DOES WEIRD SHIT LIKE ALMOST KISS A SLEEPING CLAIRE it's just painful.
I don't disagree with any of this either, but CV just seems to get a disproportionate amount of hate for something that was in the series from the beginning. Whilst 2 and 3 did tone it down, I still believe them to have a silly undercurrent
 

cvxfreak

DINO CRISIS SUX
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
945
Tokyo
How RE3, CV, RE0 and RE4 were greenlit will always be a fascinating part of RE development history and I can't wait till people can read about it.
 

NDA-Man

Member
Mar 23, 2020
3,075
As a complete aside, I was looking on Capcom's Platinum hits website. RE3 outsold CV on Dreamcast and CVX on PS2, combined (3.5 million vs. 1.4 mil plus 1.14 mil). Just because people were bringing up review scores regarding CVX v. RE3, and while sales don't necessarily track the quality of a game, I don't really think review scores do, either.
 
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ghostcrew

ghostcrew

The Shrouded Ghost
Administrator
Oct 27, 2017
30,351
As a complete aside, I was looking on Capcom's Platinum hits website. RE3 outsold CV on Dreamcast and CVX on PS2, combined (3.5 million vs. 1.4 mil plus 1.14 mil). Just because people were bringing up review scores regarding CVX v. RE3, and while sales don't necessarily track the quality of a game, I don't really think review scores do, either.

Well... yeah. Code Veronica came out 3 months after the Dreamcast launched (outside Japan). It was a woefully selling console. How many people, 3 months in, do you think had a Dreamcast? Compared to four years into the PlayStation, which was the dominating console of the time. The Dreamcast's best selling game only sold 2.5 million units. The best selling PlayStation game sold nearly 11 million.

It'd be like comparing sales of a Wii U release to a PS4 release. Of course RE3 outsold it. That's probably why they put the 3 on it, because it was going to sell gangbusters on the most popular console.
 
Oct 28, 2017
16,773
Sir, unintentional comedy was around since the beginning. Yes, CV has more of it, but in a series that started with the Master of Unlocking, and Carlos forgetting his accent while talking about how all the foxy ladies love his accent...
This is true. Code Veronica was just funnier over a longer period. And that aint a criticism. The hilarity of Code Veronica is what rescued the game for me.
 

SnatcherHunter

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
13,480
CV will ALWAYS be the True RE3 for me.

RE3 was literally 2.5. I felt bad for my friends playing RE3 on the PS1, while I was living in next gen with CV. Good times!
 
Oct 28, 2017
16,773
Code Veronica has enemies like Bandersnatches that can hit you from off screen without even a sound cue. Shit like the moths. The enemy design was just awful, and the level design had big problems too. Then you've got shit like being able to screw yourself over by going in to a boss fight with a bunch of your best stuff, then because you haven't left anything in your item box it screws you over when you switch characters. It's a game just full of bad design choices.
 

LiquidSolid

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,731
Yeah, this is true, and I didn't explain it well in my OP. Neither Code Veronica nor Nemesis were meant to be RE3. They were both spin-off games, with Code Veronica being the sequel to RE2 and Nemesis being a Jill spin-off game. There was another game in early pre-production that was the next numbered game but Capcom didn't want fans to wait that long so they picked one of the spin-offs to get the 3 number and went with Nemesis.
From what I recall, Kamiya was developing the original RE3 for the PS1 but when they decided to move it to the PS2, they renamed the Last Escape spinoff to RE3 and then made Kamiya's project RE4. And then, as we all know, RE4 turned into DMC. CV wasn't developed internally, it was outsourced to Nextech and TOSE, so it was never in the running to be a numbered game.

That whole myth of CV being the original RE3 is annoying, especially since it's grown so big that it's got its own section on Wikipedia (which I'm sure would be a nightmare to remove at this point) and that just continues to spread the bullshit.

Personally, I never liked CV even when it came out and would get into arguments with other RE fans about it lol. There's a lot of things I criticise (enemy designs, level design, puzzles, etc) but most importantly, it just feels like a chore to play. It's better than RE Zero (another TOSE developed RE) but that isn't saying much.
 

Jroc

Banned
Jun 9, 2018
6,145
I don't think subjective gameplay quality should factor into the RE3-worthiness debate. The Star Wars Holiday Special could have turned out to be more entertaining than The Empire Strikes Back, but it still wouldn't have made it more relevant. You need to look at things from an overall franchise perspective.

CVX is the sequel to RE2 according to Capcom themselves. It continued the tradition of each game having two protagonists in a brand new setting, and started a new plotline that would later be followed up by future mainline games (Wesker).

From a story perspective, you can completely skip RE3 without missing a beat.

RE1->RE2->CVX->RE4->RE5

The RE4 intro works as a perfectly sufficient substitute. Everything you learn in RE3 is fanwiki footnote-tier, it's like if they called Opposing Force "Half-life 2" because it ended the "Black Mesa Saga".

tumblr_o2i5duvz5J1qjztgpo1_400.gif


CVX GAVE US THE ORIGIN STORY TO CHRIS REDFIELD'S STEROID ABUSE. THAT ALONE IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN JILL RUNNING AROUND IN A TUBE TOP.
 
May 7, 2020
170
CVX GAVE US THE ORIGIN STORY TO CHRIS REDFIELD'S STEROID ABUSE. THAT ALONE IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN JILL RUNNING AROUND IN A TUBE TOP.
And with that, the darkest timeline was born.

Original Chris that resembles an actual human being >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Roid-rage, boulder-punching anime alien punished-Chris
 

Mr_Zombie

Member
Oct 27, 2017
971
Poland
From a story perspective, you can completely skip RE3 without missing a beat.

RE1->RE2->CVX->RE4->RE5


No, both games are pretty important story-wise.

CV resurrects Wesker and introduces T-Veronica virus (used later in Darkside Chronicles).

RE3 shows the end of Raccoon City and Umbrella's influence in US government which is the catalyst for events in further games. That game also introduces the Nemesis parasite (which was retroactively included in the origin of G-virus), the T-virus vaccine and Jill's further immunity to the virus (referenced in RE5).

The RE4 intro works as a perfectly sufficient substitute. Everything you learn in RE3 is fanwiki footnote-tier

And you can skip CV since Wesker's origin and the conflict between him and Chris is better explored in RE5. 🤷‍♂️ CV only tells us that Wesker lives, but doesn't tell us anything about how, why and what's his deal.
 

Voyevoda

Member
Nov 1, 2017
2,158
Paris, France
This game is almost unredeemable, sorry. The story, the gameplay, nothing works. I'm not even sure most RE fans played it, certainly not since the PS2 era. It's true the game would benefit most from a remake, but I think Capcom has better choices than rebuilding Code Veronica from scratch.

Oh, so it's not just me?

I've caught up on Resi games prior to REmake 2's release, and CV:X was the only one I couldn't bring myself to actually finish (and I finished RE6). It's wonky, it's silly, it's beyond cheesy, pretty ugly and not even fun on top of that.
 

erlim

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,502
London
I just played through the game for the first time this year and I thought it was quite good. With as much hate as it's always receiving, I was expecting a short, horrible experience that was the last thing I received. The game was much longer than I had anticipated it to be and had some really cool set pieces, interesting puzzles, and some very challenging areas. The further I progressed into the game, the more I wondered why I people hate it so much and deem it unworthy of being a numbered entry.

And if I'm being honest, Resident Evil: Zero also doesn't deserve all of the hate it gets either.

Do you like being stun locked and killed off screen by zombie monkeys and using your entire mismanaged artillery on leeches shaped like a person?