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ghostcrew

The Shrouded Ghost
Administrator
Oct 27, 2017
30,351
So I've recently been down a fun Code Veronica hole and it got me remembering what it was like around release and trying to piece together memories. Firstly - it sure feels like a mainline Resident Evil entry, so why does it have a weird 'code' subtitle? It's certainly closer to Resident Evil 2 or Resident Evil 0 than Operation Raccoon City or The Umbrella Chronicles are.

Firstly, it's fun to remember exactly when Code Veronica released. Surprisingly (and this might give us our first clue as to the name!), Code Veronica released on the Dreamcast just three months after Resident Evil 3 came out on the PS1. That's the equivalent of Resident Evil 8 coming out this Friday and then Resident Evil 9 releasing in August. It's crazy. These two proper Resident Evil sequels were being developed side by side for different (competing!) platforms and ended up releasing so close to each other. Literally one on each side of Christmas.

Now, Code Veronica continues the story of Claire (and Chris!) Redfield directly following the events of RE2. It features Claire exploring (and trying to escape from) an Umbrella owned island that she came to in search of her brother. In everything other than the name, it's a sequel to Resident Evil 2. It follows the same characters from the previous games (one from each) and directly follows up their stories. So why is it not called Resident Evil 3 (or 4)? Why did two different mainline Resident Evil games release so damn close together on two different platforms? There are a ton of fun presumptions but the truth might be fairly boring.

What's fun about the whole Resident Evil naming saga is that it seems that Code Veronica was actually meant to be the proper mainline sequel to Resident Evil 2 and RE3: Nemesis was supposed to be the side-story game. Yep, we were supposed to live in a world where Code Veronica and RE3: Nemesis were spin-pffs. Resident Evil: Code Jill or something (probably just Resident Evil: Nemesis in all likelihood).

Code: Veronica originated from an unsuccessful attempt to port Resident Evil 2 to the Sega Saturn. After producer Shinji Mikami and his team learned they would be unable to port the game without making a large sacrifice to quality, Mikami was asked by his leadership to create something else for Sega fans, and so development began on an original game. When Mikami asked for more time to develop the game, he was told it would need to have a better technical quality, making Sega's upcoming Dreamcast more appealing.[SUP][8][/SUP] Around the same time, a side-story game for the PlayStation starring Jill Valentine in the events leading up to Resident Evil 2 was being developed. This title was originally intended to be a spin-off with the Dreamcast title to be the true sequel.

The actual details of the naming switch arounds has seemingly become something of a fan speculation fest and, typically, everyone has a different 'truth' about why different Resident Evil games all had their names switched at the last minute.

Some say that Sony bartered for exclusivity of three mainline RE games on PlayStation so Capcom threw the number 3 on the side-story PS1 game (Nemesis - keep up) to fulfil that deal so they could move on with making proper sequels on next gen hardware. This has seemingly been revoked in more recent interviews but it's not beyond the realm of possibility. It'd mirror how bands often release quick Greatest Hits or Live albums to get themselves out of record deals that require a certain amount of records released for a label. I could see it.

Some put it down to the fact that, as the games got closer to release, Capcom were realising that the Dreamcast just wasn't going to be the monster console release that they expected and they had to reassess how many copies they'd ship of Code Veronica. Meanwhile the PlayStation continued to be the juggernaut home console in terms of sales. Doesn't it make sense to keep the proper sequel on the console that's gonna shift the most copies and be the biggest success, even if that means rebranding them? Maybe…

Perhaps least sexy are the reports that "producer Shinji Mikami and Flagship president Yoshiki Okamoto told journalists they wanted to keep the numbered chronology on the PlayStation systems, and give subtitles to Resident Evil games on all other systems". I mean, yeah, I guess.

Regardless, I've always loved the release of Code Veronica and the stories of the development and why it exists. I love that it apparently exists purely out of Capcom's failed attempts to port Resident Evil 2 to the Saturn. I love that they really did promote the game as a mainline proper Resident Evil title despite the name change and the fact that it was releasing THREE MONTHS after Resident Evil 3 came out on PlayStation. I love that, while it didn't sell anywhere near as well as previous entries (hi Dreamcast), it sold amazingly well to the Dreamcast audience. Seriously, as a Dreamcast owner it was supremely exciting to have the TRUE, NEXT GENERATION RESIDENT EVIL coming to your console of choice exclusively. This was later mirrored for GameCube owners when the TRUE, NEXT GENERATION RESIDENT EVIL game came exclusively to Nintendo fans (until six months later it came to the PS2).

Most curiously for me… will they do a proper remake of Code Veronica? I'd say, even moreso than RE4, it deserves it. Code Veronica has the same tank controls and classic feel of RE1,2 and 3. It's a struggle for some these days. It's also not available on PlayStation consoles beyond PS3. I'm sure many would want to continue the true story of the Redfields after RE2 wrapped up.

TL;DR: watch the intro cutscene. It's etched onto my brain from watching it so many times on demo discs in 1999.

 
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Grunty

Member
Oct 28, 2017
7,344
Gruntilda’s Lair
I just played through the game for the first time this year and I thought it was quite good. With as much hate as it's always receiving, I was expecting a short, horrible experience that was the last thing I received. The game was much longer than I had anticipated it to be and had some really cool set pieces, interesting puzzles, and some very challenging areas. The further I progressed into the game, the more I wondered why I people hate it so much and deem it unworthy of being a numbered entry.

And if I'm being honest, Resident Evil: Zero also doesn't deserve all of the hate it gets either.
 

Phantom

Writer at Jeux.ca
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
1,446
Canada
This game is almost unredeemable, sorry. The story, the gameplay, nothing works. I'm not even sure most RE fans played it, certainly not since the PS2 era. It's true the game would benefit most from a remake, but I think Capcom has better choices than rebuilding Code Veronica from scratch.
 
Nov 2, 2017
481
Story line wise RE3 was the end of Raccoon City and Umbrella which by that point was Resident Evil. Also 3 brought a lot of new mechanics too. Code Veronica on the other hand felt like a comedy side show and brought nothing new really gameplay wise. For me it wasn't difficult to see why one had the 3 and one had the subtitle.
 

mindsale

Member
Oct 29, 2017
5,911
This is a great example of why subtitled entries often feel like asides rather than part of a mainline continuity. I wouldn't hate a remake. Or a retitling.
 

Dreamboum

Member
Oct 28, 2017
22,854
Story line wise RE3 was the end of Raccoon City and Umbrella which by that point was Resident Evil. Also 3 brought a lot of new mechanics too. Code Veronica on the other hand felt like a comedy side show and brought nothing new really gameplay wise. For me it wasn't difficult to see why one had the 3 and one had the subtitle.
There isn't anything RE3 brought to the table that was interesting to the survival horror formula outside of gunpowder unless you wanted to make an action game
 

Lord Fanny

Banned
Apr 25, 2020
25,953
Nah, I can understand people maybe saying that it should have been RE4, but I won't let people devalue RE3 just because it was a side game at some point in development, like that has any relevance to the final game. Nemesis ends the Raccoon City saga, which is still one of the defining moments of the franchise's canon.

So, no, unfortunately, this has been vetoed.
 
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HotAndTender

Member
Dec 6, 2017
856
It's a crazy game, if you take out the zombies and changed the characters names it wouldn't feel like a true RE game.
I wish CVX would of gotten the remake treatment before 4
 

Lady Bow

Member
Nov 30, 2017
11,285
Steve carries Code Veronica so well.

zQ23W3B.jpg
 
Oct 28, 2017
16,773
There isn't anything RE3 brought to the table that was interesting to the survival horror formula outside of gunpowder unless you wanted to make an action game
RE3 was the game that introduced the quick turn. Ammo crafting as you mentioned. The live selection choices. It was the first in the series to have an element of randomness with item drops, enemies and whatnot. It smoothed out parts of the controls and movement, allowing players to walk up and down stairs smoothly(which Code Veronica inexplicably took away). It added elements of environmental destruction to its gameplay.

Code Veronica added bad level design and unintentional comedy.
 

Javier23

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,904
Agreed, that it could or should have been called RE4 if anything. RE3 wouldn't make sense being called anything else. Follows the exact same plot structure of every other RE mainline game, and what's a side story anyway in the context of this series? It's all (good) tropey horror schlock and the only thing every entry adds to the overall "lore" is a new version of the virus.
I just played through the game for the first time this year and I thought it was quite good. With as much hate as it's always receiving, I was expecting a short, horrible experience that was the last thing I received. The game was much longer than I had anticipated it to be and had some really cool set pieces, interesting puzzles, and some very challenging areas. The further I progressed into the game, the more I wondered why I people hate it so much and deem it unworthy of being a numbered entry.

And if I'm being honest, Resident Evil: Zero also doesn't deserve all of the hate it gets either.
It's just hyperbole. Code Veronica and Zero are obviously inferior and flawed (in very dumb but integral ways), doesn't mean they are trash.
 

Dreamboum

Member
Oct 28, 2017
22,854
RE3 was the game that introduced the quick turn. Ammo crafting as you mentioned. The live selection choices. It was the first in the series to have an element of randomness with item drops, enemies and whatnot. It smoothed out parts of the controls and movement, allowing players to walk up and down stairs smoothly(which Code Veronica inexplicably took away). It added elements of environmental destruction to its gameplay.

Code Veronica added bad level design and unintentional comedy.
None of these things mattered in the context of a game in the survival horror genre unless you wanted to make an action game. My position remains the same on this. Quick turn, walking on stairs rapidly, random respawns, this is not good for the type of game it is.

More features = better game is the one argument that doesn't apply at ALL in horror.
 
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ghostcrew

ghostcrew

The Shrouded Ghost
Administrator
Oct 27, 2017
30,351
It's just hyperbole. Code Veronica and Zero are obviously inferior and flawed (in very dumb but integral ways), doesn't mean they are trash.

It's also some reframing of history to be honest. Code Veronica was loved at launch. It was better recieved than Resident Evil 3 Nemesis. They were surely both great Resident Evil games but Code Veronica got the better reviews (some of that was surely 'new console sparkle' no doubt) and was considered more of a traditional Resident Evil game whereas Resident Evil 3 was the first step into making the series more action heavy.

Code: Veronica released to critical acclaim; many critics believed it to be the best entry in the Resident Evil series at the time, and a "must-own" for the Dreamcast. GameRankings aggregate score: 94% (in a pre-Metacritic world)
 

Korigama

Member
Oct 25, 2017
20,485
None of these things mattered in the context of a game in the survival horror genre unless you wanted to make an action game. My position remains the same on this. Quick turn, walking on stairs rapidly, random respawns, this is not good for the type of game it is.

More features = better game is the one argument that doesn't apply at ALL in horror.
Why are any of those three things bad for a survival horror game, exactly? Wouldn't describe that second one as "walking on stairs rapidly" either, given it was an introduction of being able to climb and descend stairs at the player's own pace rather than being automated, up to and including stopping in the middle of them if they so chose.

Also don't see how ammo mixing is an action game-specific thing instead of just another form of inventory management the same as with anything else weapons-related.
 
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Kromeo

Member
Oct 27, 2017
17,832
I just finished a replay of it and I still like it more than 3 or 0 but I'd never realised how awful the final boss is, the constantly respawning little shits keep stun locking you and it just turns into a healing item spam.. sticking a corridor with respawning poison moths right outside the main save room for the second half of the game was particularly stupid as well

Steve is obviously garbage but I'll take the Alfred/Alexia stuff over the tripe that happens in 5 any day
 
Oct 27, 2017
39,148
Code Veronica was never supposed to be called 3. It was always CV. But regardless of that, RE3 earns it's name.

-It introduced tons of new features and many of them returned in the later games due to how fitting they were.
-It closed the Racoon City saga and set the seeds for Umbrella's downfall.
-It expanded on how much control Umbrella had over the city and how the government knew about it but never did anything. It showed how powerful they were.
-It had an all new never done before in a survival horror game setting. Racoon City was something fresh and interesting at the time.

It was ambitious and did a lot of good things that it became a mainline game instead of a side game. That's how good it was.
 
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ghostcrew

ghostcrew

The Shrouded Ghost
Administrator
Oct 27, 2017
30,351
Code Veronica was never supposed to be called 3. It was always CV.

Yeah, this is true, and I didn't explain it well in my OP. Neither Code Veronica nor Nemesis were meant to be RE3. They were both spin-off games, with Code Veronica being the sequel to RE2 and Nemesis being a Jill spin-off game. There was another game in early pre-production that was the next numbered game but Capcom didn't want fans to wait that long so they picked one of the spin-offs to get the 3 number and went with Nemesis.

Although planned as a spin-off, (Code Veronica) was intentionally designed as the true sequel to Resident Evil 2 according to its creators. The title of "Resident Evil 3" was given to what was originally another spin-off game being developed in tandem for the PlayStation.
 

Clive

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,089
It has some silly moments but it's not like other REs don't. I'm a massive RE fan and consider it maybe my favorite franchise of all time but come on, the writing always had so bad that it's funny moments. From Jill Sandwiches to tiny Napoleon, beating up rocks and... all of RE6. Villains were always cartoon villains. With new voice acting, rebalancing and a few reworked scenes and I could see a Code Veronica remake being among the most interesting older titles in the series. The settings were pretty interesting, the level design solid and it had a few unique moments and ideas. Nothing really wrong with the game, by retro RE standards.

It could have been numbered and it definitely felt like a full RE game.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,065
Capcom didn't want fans to wait that long so they picked one of the spin-offs to get the 3 number and went with Nemesis.

I don't believe they sat down and compared the two games to pick one to be upgraded to RE3. They decided to upgrade RE3 on its own terms, because it had become larger and more significant than originally envisioned (and because it would be more easily marketable that way). I'm not sure there ever would have been a discussion that CV could be upgraded instead, especially as it was an outsourced title.

CVXFreak's book on this section of RE's history, when they had a million games planned for every platform imaginable, will be very interesting.
 

basic_text

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,024
Derby, UK
I haven't touched it since my original playthrough on the Dreamcast but I remember enjoying it. I also remember it being mega drawn out which is probably went over never replayed it!
 

Mr_Zombie

Member
Oct 27, 2017
971
Poland
one of these things mattered in the context of a game in the survival horror genre unless you wanted to make an action game. My position remains the same on this. Quick turn, walking on stairs rapidly, random respawns, this is not good for the type of game it is.

More features = better game is the one argument that doesn't apply at ALL in horror.

In terms of expanding the survior horror formula it added a stalker monster that can follow you from room to room.
Also, how are randomized items, enemies and puzzles not important in the context of a survivor horror genre? Especially enemies? Not knowing what enemy will be in the next room on your next playthrough is quite an interesting feature.
 

Justice_DP

Member
Jan 28, 2020
154
It is kinda strange to see how many peope on this board view RE:CV as a "bad" game.
The tone on message boards before and during the release of nemesis and code veronica felt very different, with RE:CV coming out on top for most.

Anyway: Yeah, it should have been RE3.
 
Oct 28, 2017
16,773
It's also some reframing of history to be honest. Code Veronica was loved at launch. It was better recieved than Resident Evil 3 Nemesis. They were surely both great Resident Evil games but Code Veronica got the better reviews (some of that was surely 'new console sparkle' no doubt) and was considered more of a traditional Resident Evil game whereas Resident Evil 3 was the first step into making the series more action heavy.
It was well recieved at the time. It is righfully being criticised on reflection. Sonic Adventure was a 90 average review score once too.
 
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ghostcrew

ghostcrew

The Shrouded Ghost
Administrator
Oct 27, 2017
30,351
It was well recieved at the time. It is righfully being criticised on reflection. Sonic Adventure was a 90 average review score once too.

True!

I do think the release timing was responsible for different opinions on these games. Code Veronica totally had some 'new console, new gen' shine to it that helped people get excited.

To be fairly hyperbolic, RE3 Nemesis felt like the God of War Ascension or Gears of War Judgement of 1999. It was another sequel on a platform that'd already had two amazing RE games with various rereleases and Directors Cuts. There was definitely some PlayStation RE fatigue around it which, when looked back on, is easier to ignore now.
 

Taruranto

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,048
None of these things mattered in the context of a game in the survival horror genre unless you wanted to make an action game.
? Why wouldn't they matter. Ammo crafting can be important in a survival horror too, given the genre is all about resource management. That just takes it to another level.
 

Keym

The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
9,192
There isn't anything RE3 brought to the table that was interesting to the survival horror formula outside of gunpowder unless you wanted to make an action game
3 did more innovative things than CV ever did. Those things were already mentioned, and even though you may not like them, it doesn't change the fact that 3 was more of an evolution of the series going forward.
 

Clive

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,089
It was well recieved at the time. It is righfully being criticised on reflection. Sonic Adventure was a 90 average review score once too.
And so would RE3 be if it was released today in its original form. Games age.

Code Veronica sits at a 94 on Gamerankings while RE3 is at 88. That's what it looked like when these games were released, the time the names and numbers were given.
 

Y2Kev

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,840
I just replayed it and there was one interesting thing that struck me that I never noticed before. There is the chemical puzzle when you're Chris in the military training facility. You have to basically change the temperature. In the Japanese version, the temperature is in C. To localize it, they just changed the temperature marker to F without actually redoing the temperature conversion. Shocking!

This game is a lot more fun with a guide. Without one, the amount of backtracking and the lack of item boxes for long stretches is just...it's pretty wow. Carrying the three medallions as Claire off to the bridge in the airport is like whoa. The layering of puzzles is quite intense. There are tons and tons of items and mixing and matching what goes where is not at all intuitive.

The game is ugly.
 
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ghostcrew

ghostcrew

The Shrouded Ghost
Administrator
Oct 27, 2017
30,351
And so would RE3 be if it was released today in its original form. Games age.

Code Veronica sits at a 94 on Gamerankings while RE3 is at 88. That's what it looked like when these games were released, the time the names and numbers were given.

To prove this point, the later RE3 GameCube rerelease sits at 64% on Metacritic.

Yes, later releases of Code Veronica (notable Code Veronica X) were scored much lower than the original release was. So were the rereleases of RE3: Nemesis. The classic RE games aged badly in a post RE4/REmake world where Capcom still wanted to release them on every platform.
 

SirKai

Member
Dec 28, 2017
7,367
Washington
None of these things mattered in the context of a game in the survival horror genre unless you wanted to make an action game. My position remains the same on this. Quick turn, walking on stairs rapidly, random respawns, this is not good for the type of game it is.

More features = better game is the one argument that doesn't apply at ALL in horror.

This is total nonsense. REmake is a more feature filled game with more new mechanics compared to CV (the aforementioned manual stair movement, defense items, crimson heads/body burning, one dangerous zombie, invisible enemy, more ending variations) so it also suddenly less of a horror game because of it?
 

Dreamboum

Member
Oct 28, 2017
22,854
Why are any of those three things bad for a survival horror game, exactly? Wouldn't describe that second one as "walking on stairs rapidly" either, given it was an introduction of being able to climb and descend stairs at the player's own pace rather than being automated, up to and including stopping in the middle of them if they so chose.

Also don't see how ammo mixing is an action game-specific thing instead of just another form of inventory management the same as with anything else weapons-related.
In terms of expanding the survior horror formula it added a stalker monster that can follow you from room to room.
Also, how are randomized items, enemies and puzzles not important in the context of a survivor horror genre? Especially enemies? Not knowing what enemy will be in the next room on your next playthrough is quite an interesting feature.
? Why wouldn't they matter. Ammo crafting can be important in a survival horror too, given the genre is all about resource management. That just takes it to another level.
3 did more innovative things than CV ever did. Those things were already mentioned, and even though you may not like them, it doesn't change the fact that 3 was more of an evolution of the series going forward.

First of all I've already said that the only thing that was interesting was gunpowder in an earlier post.

Second of all, these features does not add to the horror, it only adds to the combat in ways that does not enhance horror.

Randomized enemy is ass. It works in a randomizer mod, it does not work in a main campaign. I do not want to play a horror campaign with random elements. RE4 did a better job tying it up with an adaptive difficulty, as in, directly related to your progression and performance instead of just respawning more zombies and it is an action game played straight.

I don't know what to tell you. RE2 had none of these things and it will always be TEN TIMES the better game than RE3 will ever be. This is not a RPG. The amount of features or "innovation" isn't the selling point you think it is. Perfect dodging isn't enhancing the horror, this "innovation" isn't making the game better. Evolution means nothing if this evolution are entirely rooted in a genre not related to horror.

Did CV not evolve as much as RE3? Yes. Is CV a better horror game than RE3? Also yes.

and "raccoon city bombed with napalm" is a footnote that could have been in a file tucked away in a sewer level and no one would have batted an eye about it. This does not make RE3 more relevant as a story as CV was.
 

Sesha

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,813
The way I see it we were originally gonna have two spin-offs, and a sequel made by Kamiya.
 

Dreamboum

Member
Oct 28, 2017
22,854
This is total nonsense. REmake is a more feature filled game with more new mechanics compared to CV (defense items, crimson heads/body burning, one dangerous zombie, invisible enemy, more ending variations) so it also suddenly less of a horror game because of it?
Literally all of these features work in the context of horror in a way that RE3 does not.

In fact Resident Evil fucking 4 has more features that one could ascribe to horror than RE3. Las plagas enemies, adaptive difficulty, more complex inventory management, slasher type arenas like the village, etc.

And none of these things matter to why RE3 should not be RE3.
RE3 can be RE3 as much as it wants to be. CV will still remain the more important game. We already know that Nemesis became 3 because of deals with Sony and a need for Capcom to boost its earnings. This fact will always remain true.
 

Black Mantis

Member
Oct 30, 2017
3,106
It is kinda strange to see how many peope on this board view RE:CV as a "bad" game.
The tone on message boards before and during the release of nemesis and code veronica felt very different, with RE:CV coming out on top for most.

Anyway: Yeah, it should have been RE3.

Yeah, I never came across that view until seeing it here. I had it at launch and loved it, must have played through it at least 3 times, and it definitely had a great reception back then.
 

ClickyCal'

Member
Oct 25, 2017
59,521
And so would RE3 be if it was released today in its original form. Games age.

Code Veronica sits at a 94 on Gamerankings while RE3 is at 88. That's what it looked like when these games were released, the time the names and numbers were given.
Some games age better than others though. Dk64 was critically praised back then. Now....uh, yea. But some n64 games are still mostly praised now.
 

Mr_Zombie

Member
Oct 27, 2017
971
Poland
Second of all, these features does not add to the horror, it only adds to the combat in ways that does not enhance horror.
How does a stalker enemy, basically a mini-boss that can (theoretically) appear anywhere and who you can't run away by simply going through the nearest door, not enhance horror?

Did CV not evolve as much as RE3? Yes. Is CV a better horror game than RE3? Also yes.
Ok, how is CV better as a horror game? Because you constantly claim that nothing that RE3 did enhance the horror, but you haven't said why do you think CV is a better horror game.