Let's talk about a dreamy Mass Effect trilogy remaster. Do you think ME1's combat/mako needs to be overhauled?

[SofNascimento]

That's a good turn of my phrase, but you're wrong. By nature of unaggressive enemies combined with infinitely regenerating shields and health makes ME2's most optimal strategy at the highest difficulty hiding in the back with a Widow or Revenant. You can play differently to make things more challenging for yourself, but the game never forces you to leave cover aside from the single Pretorian fight. Even enemies with rocket launchers are countered by the god-like chest high walls. Playing a Vanguard makes it abundantly clear how imbalanced Insanity is.

When ME3 added Brutes, Phantoms, Banshees, Atlases, etc., they made the game dynamic by forcing you to move. You can see the problems present in ME2's combat when fighting the Geth in ME3 - they don't do anything other than take cover and hit hard. The proof of this exists in the multiplayer-only Geth enemy: the bomber drone. Literally all it does is force you to leave cover, and it makes the Geth infinitely more engaging to fight. Even the Collectors are done better in ME3 (MP) by the fact that they made the Pretorians way, way more aggressive and gave their beam the ability to pierce cover, as well as added Seeker Swarm enemies.

I will admit that ME2 giving each class their own distinct identity by way of unique abilities (charge, cloak, tech armor, etc) was a great addition to the series. But, as it is the first implementation, the iterations done to each class in 3 and Andromeda far outclass the originals in 2.

Click to shrink...

Not really, you can be very aggresive in ME2. With Vanguard in particular, cover becomes more like an accessory than the main way to play the game, even of Insanity which I'd say is perfect balanced. But yes, it's TPS with focus on cover, like Gears of War or Uncharted are, but I don't think you can use it as an argument against it.

And it's funny that you mentioned rockets, because in ME2 is very easy to dodge them outside cover.

 

[Flounder]

I just want the games on modern consoles, please and thank you.

And/or official controller support on the PC versions I already have.

Click to shrink...

I played the trilogy on PC with a controller, the controller mods work perfectly, no need to wait for official support:

ME1Controller

Mass Effect 1 Controller Support (Power Wheel)

www.nexusmods.com

ME2Controller

Mass Effect 2 Controller Support (Power Wheel)

www.nexusmods.com

SinglePlayer Native Controller Support Mod

Support for controllers in singleplayer with native controller UIs and scaling for TV/4K

www.nexusmods.com

 

[Kamaros]

I played the trilogy on PC with a controller, the controller mods work perfectly, no need to wait for official support:

ME1Controller

Mass Effect 1 Controller Support (Power Wheel)

www.nexusmods.com

ME2Controller

Mass Effect 2 Controller Support (Power Wheel)

www.nexusmods.com

SinglePlayer Native Controller Support Mod

Support for controllers in singleplayer with native controller UIs and scaling for TV/4K

www.nexusmods.com

Click to shrink...

is it hard to mod the games? i bought on origin and not steam.

 

[Haze]

No. The game should be as close to the original as possible. If they're going to make substantial changes to how the game plays, they should release it as a separate remake.

 

[Pargon]

I'd much rather play Mass Effect 1 than the slog of Mass Effect 2's combat.
They thought they had made a world-class third-person shooter with 2, and put in way too many poorly-designed combat encounters.
At least with all of the options Mass Effect 1 provided the combat was fun.

Anyone that says the combat in Mass Effect 1 is bad doesn't realize that it's an RPG first, or never explored all the options you have available.
It may not be the best combat ever, but it's never bad.

Turn it into a Turn Based Tactical RPG, XCOM style.

Click to shrink...

Really though, I don't think a lot of people realized that Mass Effect combat was supposed to be a kind of real-time-with-pause system by commanding your allies in the tactical layer. The original UI for this was quite different:


Seeing that video again is so nostalgic for me. I watched it over and over before the original game's release. I'm trying not to think about how long ago that was now.

 

[SofNascimento]

Really though, I don't think a lot of people realized that Mass Effect combat was supposed to be a kind of real-time-with-pause system by commanding your allies in the tactical layer. The original UI for this was quite different:


Seeing that video again is so nostalgic for me. I watched it over and over before the original game's release. I'm trying not to think about how long ago that was now.

Click to shrink...

There are other ME1 videos that show a combat that is neither that nor the one in the final build. It really shows how much Bioware suffered in designing a combat that fit their vision, and why ME1's combat ended being so lackluster.

They finally did it with ME2. Although I do think they had to take a step back in some ways.

 

[Kamaros]

There are other ME1 videos that show a combat that is neither that nor the one in the final build. It really shows how much Bioware suffered in designing a combat that fit their vision, and why ME1's combat ended being so lackluster.

They finally did it with ME2. Although I do think they had to take a step back in some ways.

Click to shrink...

i remember there being a original game design document for ME1, dated circa 2004 and it was a completely different game.

can't find the piece, tho.

 

[Buttchin-n-Bones]

Not really, you can be very aggresive in ME2. With Vanguard in particular, cover becomes more like an accessory than the main way to play the game, even of Insanity which I'd say is perfect balanced. But yes, it's TPS with focus on cover, like Gears of War or Uncharted are, but I don't think you can use it as an argument against it.

And it's funny that you mentioned rockets, because in ME2 is very easy to dodge them outside cover.

Click to shrink...

Yeah you can be. You can be aggressive and use clever positioning. Just like you can handicap yourself in, say, Pokemon with like the Nuzlocke method. You also can play ME2 like a coward, and you are rewarded for doing so.

You can't in either ME3 or MEA. Enemies push you very hard. You either have to be aggressive yourself, or you have to be smart with your movements. Or...you die. Furthermore, ME3 and MEA punish mistakes by having non-regenerating health, adding resource management as a factor to consider. Even if you are playing unoptimally in ME2, you'll always have an out by running to a far piece of cover and waiting for Regen. And no, Insanity is not perfectly balanced, because it's a cakewalk for an Infiltrator and a nightmare for a Vanguard.

Also, good luck dodging enemy hitscan bullets when it takes two or three to break shield, cause that's the only way they could add challenge to the mode. That, and as ClearMetal said, slapping bars and bars of armour and shield for every single enemy. Talk about your bullet sponges

 

[TheUnsungHero26]

There are other ME1 videos that show a combat that is neither that nor the one in the final build. It really shows how much Bioware suffered in designing a combat that fit their vision, and why ME1's combat ended being so lackluster.

They finally did it with ME2. Although I do think they had to take a step back in some ways.

Click to shrink...

There was an interview with the BioWare doctors a few years back, and they said they completely overhauled the combat system just months before the game released. I think it may have been a game Informer magazine around the time Andromeda released.

If you go back and watch some of the gameplay they showed off at Microsoft's events in 2007, you can see that the weapon/power wheel was a pretty late addition.

 

[Sparks]

Really OP, you dissing the combat and Mako like that?

I will destroy you.

 

[Rendering...]

Some combat enhancements would be fine, but the Mako is unfairly disliked. Leave it alone, or make small control tweaks.

 

[Flandy]

I played the trilogy on PC with a controller, the controller mods work perfectly, no need to wait for official support:

ME1Controller

Mass Effect 1 Controller Support (Power Wheel)

www.nexusmods.com

ME2Controller

Mass Effect 2 Controller Support (Power Wheel)

www.nexusmods.com

SinglePlayer Native Controller Support Mod

Support for controllers in singleplayer with native controller UIs and scaling for TV/4K

www.nexusmods.com

Click to shrink...

I wonder how it would play with a Steam controller?

 

[PinkCrayon]

On pc you can just open an ini file and make the Mako more manageable, unfortunately you can't make the uncharted worlds any less boring to explore.

 

[Ralemont]

Anyone that says the combat in Mass Effect 1 is bad doesn't realize that it's an RPG first, or never explored all the options you have available.
It may not be the best combat ever, but it's never bad.

Click to shrink...

Mass Effect is by no means an RPG first when it comes to combat; it's a third person shooter first. This is demonstrated very easily by the fact that the game requires the player to aim at targets. If it was a role-playing game first, aim would be entirely decided by your character sheet.

 

[Pargon]

Mass Effect is by no means an RPG first when it comes to combat; it's a third person shooter first. This is demonstrated very easily by the fact that the game requires the player to aim at targets. If it was a role-playing game first, aim would be entirely decided by your character sheet.

Click to shrink...

Well, that's fair. But it doesn't feel like a traditional third-person shooter, which is why people say it's bad. Different doesn't have to be bad.

 

[VeryHighlander]

ME1 is the only one I go back and replay. The combat and Mako are fine, if not great. I will never understand the hatred for both. I loved it as a kid and love it now

 

[AWizardDidIt]

An Me1 and Me2 that played like 3 is basically a dream come true to me and I would pay full price for both games. If they do a remaster, they absolutely should include the original just uprezzed for purists though.

 

[Flounder]

is it hard to mod the games? i bought on origin and not steam.

Click to shrink...

It is easy to mod, even with the Origin versions

 

[canseesea]

Mass Effect is by no means an RPG first when it comes to combat; it's a third person shooter first. This is demonstrated very easily by the fact that the game requires the player to aim at targets. If it was a role-playing game first, aim would be entirely decided by your character sheet.

Click to shrink...

You have to aim in Valkyria Chronicles too, that doesn't make it less of a turn based tactics game. Similar to Alpha Protocol, you aim but the sheet decides whether you hit or not. They're action RPGs, not third person shooters. The sequels definitely changed that for Mass Effect though.

 

[Soltis]

I'm not super into SciFi games, but I've enjoyed what I've played of ME1. I've started it multiple times, but never been able to finish, largely due to how much I just dislike the Mako.

 

[AWizardDidIt]

I find the arguement about ME1 being more of an RPG especially pedantic. Regardless of whether player skill or stats determine your damage, the fact is that ME1 still *plays* like a TPS, just one with a very clunky RPG system tacked onto it and the way the player interacts with character progression is not really any more engaging than in 2 and 3 unless you just completely love 1% increases to abilities.

Frankly in terms of RPG systems, I find ME3 more engaging than ME1 since modding weapons is far more meaningful and leveling up allows you to modify your abilities in fundamentally important ways. Also they found a way to make each class really unique and offer a lot more replayability in their playstyle which is the thing I want most out of an RPG

 

[SofNascimento]

Yeah you can be. You can be aggressive and use clever positioning. Just like you can handicap yourself in, say, Pokemon with like the Nuzlocke method. You also can play ME2 like a coward, and you are rewarded for doing so.

You can't in either ME3 or MEA. Enemies push you very hard. You either have to be aggressive yourself, or you have to be smart with your movements. Or...you die. Furthermore, ME3 and MEA punish mistakes by having non-regenerating health, adding resource management as a factor to consider. Even if you are playing unoptimally in ME2, you'll always have an out by running to a far piece of cover and waiting for Regen. And no, Insanity is not perfectly balanced, because it's a cakewalk for an Infiltrator and a nightmare for a Vanguard.

Also, good luck dodging enemy hitscan bullets when it takes two or three to break shield, cause that's the only way they could add challenge to the mode. That, and as ClearMetal said, slapping bars and bars of armour and shield for every single enemy. Talk about your bullet sponges

Click to shrink...

I don't follow. Why are you comparing playing aggressive in ME2 with handicapping youself?

But the weak link in ME2 gunplay is indeed that there are fewer enemies that demand you to move. ME3 has a little bit more of them, but often they come in detriment to the overall experience rather than adding to it. As you don't have ways to properly deal with those enemies, and the game doesn't offer much in terms of playing outside cover. This is when ME3 combat becomes as weak as Andromeda's, it becomes about DPS solely.

And Insanity is definitely not a nightmare for a Vanguard in ME2, in fact, this is the difficulty where the class trives the most. For reference:




Even with shields, enemies in ME2 are not about being bullet spongy as a clever use of your (and your squadmates) power, can quickly strip them of it. Only the toughest enemies in ME2 become a battle of attrition, but they are generally either alone you can dispatch all the other enemies and then focus on them at the end.

And rockets are not hitscan bullets. Both it and powers in ME2 track Shepard movements but can be dodged with a careful use of movement.

 

[Jawmuncher]

Mall stuff is fine, if barren. The combat definitely needs some loosening though. It's rather stiff compared to the rest of the series.

 

[Tuorom]

I chose that option in the poll. I don't have any expectation of it happening, but I never played ME3 specifically because of the changes to ME2. I hated that game as a sequel, and the combat was part of it. I preferred the skill allocation in the first game and weapon specialization, along with the better use of biotic abilities in the original.

I also had more fun in the wonky Mako than I've ever had scanning planets for minerals. And it's not the subject, but the characters and story were also awful in Mass Effect 2. It was just a bad sequel.

Click to shrink...

I felt the same way. Never felt any need to play 3. ME1 is perfectly self contained, so it wasn't a big deal.

 

[Wil Grieve]

I'm literally about to hit Virmire on my current run (PC with visual mods) and honestly the controls and the combat are totally fine.

 

[Kamaros]

I'm literally about to hit Virmire on my current run (PC with visual mods) and honestly the controls and the combat are totally fine.

Click to shrink...

can you recommend me some of these visual mods? hehe

It is easy to mod, even with the Origin versions

Click to shrink...

thank you good sir

 

[ClearMetal]

Well, that's fair. But it doesn't feel like a traditional third-person shooter, which is why people say it's bad. Different doesn't have to be bad.

Click to shrink...

It isn't bad because it's different, it's bad because the RPG elements and third person shooting mixed poorly. It really felt like the developers made two separate systems, slapped them together and hoped something in there would serve as the glue to hold them together.

 

[Ralemont]

I'm literally about to hit Virmire on my current run (PC with visual mods) and honestly the controls and the combat are totally fine.

Click to shrink...

I enjoyed my PC run of ME1 way more, and I think it's because the precision of the mouse helps mitigate the imprecision of the aiming. It's when you have a controller that you run into a type of double imprecision - coming both from player input and character stats - that you run into real frustration.

You have to aim in Valkyria Chronicles too, that doesn't make it less of a turn based tactics game. Similar to Alpha Protocol, you aim but the sheet decides whether you hit or not. They're action RPGs, not third person shooters. The sequels definitely changed that for Mass Effect though.

Click to shrink...

Requiring manual aiming absolutely makes both those games less of an RPG when it comes to combat compared to hypothetical versions of the games where this is entirely stat-based. You said they are action RPGs and that is correct - they have action combat systems expressed as third person shooting combat.

Valkyria Chronicles is a hybrid of course, since a large chunk of the combat is SRPG grid-based.

 

[Garlador]

I will always smile at the Mako in Mass Effect 2...

Spoiler

Forever stuck in a piece of geometry...

 

[Buttchin-n-Bones]

I don't follow. Why are you comparing playing aggressive in ME2 with handicapping youself?

But the weak link in ME2 gunplay is indeed that there are fewer enemies that demand you to move. ME3 has a little bit more of them, but often they come in detriment to the overall experience rather than adding to it. As you don't have ways to properly deal with those enemies, and the game doesn't offer much in terms of playing outside cover. This is when ME3 combat becomes as weak as Andromeda's, it becomes about DPS solely.

And Insanity is definitely not a nightmare for a Vanguard in ME2, in fact, this is the difficulty where the class trives the most. For reference:




Even with shields, enemies in ME2 are not about being bullet spongy as a clever use of your (and your squadmates) power, can quickly strip them of it. Only the toughest enemies in ME2 become a battle of attrition, but they are generally either alone you can dispatch all the other enemies and then focus on them at the end.

And rockets are not hitscan bullets. Both it and powers in ME2 track Shepard movements but can be dodged with a careful use of movement.

Click to shrink...

I compare it to playing unoptimally because it is unoptimal. Your experience is not most people's experience. The way you play ME2 on insanity with a vanguard is how every class plays on insanity in ME3 and MEA - mobile, ability cooldown almost constantly on, not letting yourself get pressured into making a bad decision. But, again, an Infiltrator would just sit in a corner, spam cloak, and shoot everything with a Widow.

Also, Arrival is your showcase? Really? Not only is that entire DLC balanced for Shepard without squadmates, you're just teleporting around a room with enemies with shields and health. That's not a difficult encounter.

And before you show me another of your videos, it's pretty clear to me what you want from Mass Effect combat. Just waves of fodder to tear through. You don't want stunlocks, you don't want sync kills, you don't wanna be published for being reckless. Well, as I've been saying, the only way your playstyle works is through enemies that do nothing but take cover and shoot, and that erodes challenge. Not self-appointed challenge, which comes from taking the hardest class to play into Insanity, but designed challenge.

I really didn't think I'd have to explain this, but fine: yes, you can dodge rockets. But what's way easier to do is just hide behind cover and shoot when there isn't an incoming rocket. Again, no challenge there. You can't dodge hitscan bullets, which hit really hard on insanity, because the only way they could make insanity hard was to add ridiculous DPS numbers and ridiculous health bars. Y'know, for all your complaining about DPS, that video pretty much demonstrates that the only thing you enjoy is a DPS race - can I proc freeze or activate charge before the enemy melts me?

 

[SofNascimento]

I compare it to playing unoptimally because it is unoptimal. Your experience is not most people's experience. The way you play ME2 on insanity with a vanguard is how every class plays on insanity in ME3 and MEA - mobile, ability cooldown almost constantly on, not letting yourself get pressured into making a bad decision. But, again, an Infiltrator would just sit in a corner, spam cloak, and shoot everything with a Widow.

Click to shrink...

That's literally the opposite of the truth. I wish ME3 played like that, but it doesn't. It's not that good. And sitting in a corner spanning cloack works in ME3 as well.

Also, Arrival is your showcase? Really? Not only is that entire DLC balanced for Shepard without squadmates, you're just teleporting around a room with enemies with shields and health. That's not a difficult encounter.

Click to shrink...

That's literally the hardest encounter in ME2. Indeed, you should have used this very encounter to defend your argument. And this way to play with a Vanguard can be repeated in virtually the entirety of ME2.

And before you show me another of your videos, it's pretty clear to me what you want from Mass Effect combat. Just waves of fodder to tear through. You don't want stunlocks, you don't want sync kills, you don't wanna be published for being reckless. Well, as I've been saying, the only way your playstyle works is through enemies that do nothing but take cover and shoot, and that erodes challenge. Not self-appointed challenge, which comes from taking the hardest class to play into Insanity, but designed challenge.

Click to shrink...

You presume too much. ME2 punishes you for being reckless, but it also offers you the opportunity to be bold. ME3 offers less of that. Your shield is weaker and there are enemies that take way too much damage to take out. So your only option is to run away. The Heavy Mech is like that in ME2, but the game knows when to use it.

In short, I want a game that finds a balance between your build (which means your DPS) and your skill. ME2 balance is perfect, ME3's isn't.

I really didn't think I'd have to explain this, but fine: yes, you can dodge rockets. But what's way easier to do is just hide behind cover and shoot when there isn't an incoming rocket. Again, no challenge there. You can't dodge hitscan bullets, which hit really hard on insanity, because the only way they could make insanity hard was to add ridiculous DPS numbers and ridiculous health bars. Y'know, for all your complaining about DPS, that video pretty much demonstrates that the only thing you enjoy is a DPS race - can I proc freeze or activate charge before the enemy melts me?

Click to shrink...

That's true for ME3 as well, if fact, it's even more true for ME3 as rockets are way harder to dodge on that game. And the problem is not enemies doing high damage, the problem is not being able to fight back. In ME2 you always can, in ME3 when you have the hardest enemies you cannot. Indeed, that's one of the reasons ME3MP works better than the main campaign. By allowing you to move more freely around the map and pick your targets more deliberately, it mitigates that problem, but or higher difficulties you need a good party that can deal insane amount of damage.

 

[Buttchin-n-Bones]

That's literally the opposite of the truth. I wish ME3 played like that, but it doesn't. It's not that good. And sitting in a corner spanning cloack works in ME3 as well.

Click to shrink...

Yes, but it's not nearly as powerful. As others have mentioned, common enemies get grenades, so they can still attempt to force you out of cover once you break cloak. Same with the aforementioned aggressive enemies.

That's literally the hardest encounter in ME2. Indeed, you should have used this very encounter to defend your argument. And this way to play with a Vanguard can be repeated in virtually the entirety of ME2.

Click to shrink...

Really? I must be misremembering. I still feel like Horizon is the hardest.

You presume too much. ME2 punishes you for being reckless, but it also offers you the opportunity to be bold. ME3 offers less of that. Your shield is weaker and there are enemies that take way too much damage to take out. So your only option is to run away. The Heavy Mech is like that in ME2, but the game knows when to use it.

In short, I want a game that finds a balance between your build (which means your DPS) and your skill. ME2 balance is perfect, ME3's isn't.

Click to shrink...

I actually forgot about the YMIR mechs and had to look them up, and I get the impression that every lesson learned with them was incorporated better into Atlases. Anecdotally speaking, "knowing when to use it" seems to be akin to "almost never." I can't explain why the similarly rare Praetorian is more memorable in ME2, but it is.

When you say that being forced to run away isn't fun for you, that mostly reinforces my point. The punishes in ME3 have actual consequence. At risk of disproving my previous argument, that suggests to me that even the hardest class to play on Insanity is still handled with kid gloves.

I'm unsure if I've been mentioning this in my arguments, but the customization and variance in options for playstyle in both ME3 and MEA make dealing with spongey enemies much more fun. Like, let's talk about the YMIR. If you don't time your charges perfectly, how are you gonna damage it? Do you just kite with Miranda and Overload/Warp it until you get to the health bar? Do you plink away at it for ages with an SMG or a Carnifex... or a short-range shotgun? If you have a bad charge, you can't roll away - so how do you escape quickly enough? I'll defer to you on this one, I had no patience for Vanguard on Insanity. All I know is that I had different weapon options (like a Black Widow + Geth Plasma, which is unoptimal for cooldowns but is a DPS monster), as well as Charge + Nova stuns, to deal with the worst enemies in ME3.

That's true for ME3 as well, if fact, it's even more true for ME3 as rockets are way harder to dodge on that game. And the problem is not enemies doing high damage, the problem is not being able to fight back. In ME2 you always can, in ME3 when you have the hardest enemies you cannot. Indeed, that's one of the reasons ME3MP works better than the main campaign. By allowing you to move more freely around the map and pick your targets more deliberately, it mitigates that problem, but or higher difficulties you need a good party that can deal insane amount of damage.

Click to shrink...

Okay, but while you can hide from rockets in ME3, there's other things you can't hide from. In ME2, you can hide from the majority of enemies, in the majority of encounters. This is my original point, restated: you have infinitely regenerating health, and enemies don't push you. Neither of those is conducive to forcing the player to make difficult choices in combat, and neither are present after ME2. You can always fight back in ME2 because unless you put yourself in a bad situation, enemies aren't a huge threat.

ME3MP works better than the campaign for myriad reasons, including openness of target acquisition, but aside from that last shitty battle on Earth with two Banshees there were plenty of ways to deal with the strongest enemies.

 

[Deleted member 31817]

Legitimately shocked anyone is arguing ME2's combat is better than 3's.

 

[RedSwirl]

ME1 is my favorite of the three games but it is indeed jank as fuck. At the time I accepted the conceit that it was made by an RPG developer that hadn't made a shooter before. It was the western shooter equivalent of Kingdom Hearts. The thing is, if there was a remake that changed things, I wouldn't want it brought in-line with ME2 and 3, I'd want it to actually feel like a more polished version of the first game.

My biggest disappointment with this franchise is the first game never got a true sequel that fixed its flawed systems instead of getting rid of them entirely. ME1's character development gave you a lot of tools to work with if you actually dug into it (especially if you messed around with the achievements). Sure controlling the Mako sucked (less so in the PC version), but you can't deny climbing an 80-degree hill and using it to blast a Geth base or whatever from 500 yards away was fun as shit, or those landscapes had some of the dopest sky boxes, or just the overall "alien planet rover" feeling the other two games lost.

Most of all though I'd actually want them to redo the gear interface again (they redid it once on the PC version).

 

[Mad_Rhetoric]

ME1's combat, UI/Menus/inventory, Mako driving, and controls need to be modernized.

 

[Siggy-P]

I don't follow. Why are you comparing playing aggressive in ME2 with handicapping youself?

But the weak link in ME2 gunplay is indeed that there are fewer enemies that demand you to move. ME3 has a little bit more of them, but often they come in detriment to the overall experience rather than adding to it. As you don't have ways to properly deal with those enemies, and the game doesn't offer much in terms of playing outside cover. This is when ME3 combat becomes as weak as Andromeda's, it becomes about DPS solely.

And Insanity is definitely not a nightmare for a Vanguard in ME2, in fact, this is the difficulty where the class trives the most. For reference:




Even with shields, enemies in ME2 are not about being bullet spongy as a clever use of your (and your squadmates) power, can quickly strip them of it. Only the toughest enemies in ME2 become a battle of attrition, but they are generally either alone you can dispatch all the other enemies and then focus on them at the end.

And rockets are not hitscan bullets. Both it and powers in ME2 track Shepard movements but can be dodged with a careful use of movement.

Click to shrink...

Should be obvious from that video alone why they changed combat in 3. You're playing incredibly recklessly on what is supposed to be the hardest difficulty and there's no risk at all because the enemies AI is too poorly designed and the abilities too forgiving.

 

[Firebrand]

ME1's combat wasn't perfect but I found it to be more engaging than that of sequels where combat was just a nuisance to endure to advance the story. I'm sure there are tweaks that could be made but it should probably be in the opposite direction of turning it into ME2/3.

 

[PBalfredo]

I honestly don't understand what anyone could see in ME1's combat.

 

[Hate]

I think ME1 combat is fine as it is. Mako definitely needs a rework.

 

[ClearMetal]

Yes, but it's not nearly as powerful. As others have mentioned, common enemies get grenades, so they can still attempt to force you out of cover once you break cloak. Same with the aforementioned aggressive enemies.

Click to shrink...

I am pretty sure even Cerberus mooks will actually keep shooting at your original location just to make sure you aren't taking your time lining up a shot. If you activate your cloak, you are forced to move and act.

They also respond to sounds, so no chance of walking up to them with a shotgun either.

Honestly ME3 (haven't played Andromeda) still has one of the best implemented high difficulty settings I've seen in video games.

 

[spool]

The cover system in Mass Effect may have been bad, but that's pretty irrelevant as it's rarely beneficial to take cover anyway. The game will be more enjoyable once you stop doing that and start strafing instead. Knowing how to play effectively may not turn ME1 combat into something that's good, but it's certainly not bad either. It works and you can be very effective.

The mako has some issues that should be addressed, but it's mainly the terrain you drive on that needs to be modified. The crazy jagged planets need to be smoothed out.

I think it'd be great, if perhaps a tad ambitious for this theoretical remaster, to offer both the old combat as well as ME2 or even ME3 combat as an option. Just transplant as much as possible, from skills to weapons and enemies. Levels would need to be redesigned at least in part.

And arguing that combat in ME2 is better than ME3 is pretty baffling.

 

[Deleted member 8784]

I'm honestly not sure I'd even bother to buy it if the controls and menu's don't get some serious work personally.

 

[Buttchin-n-Bones]

I am pretty sure even Cerberus mooks will actually keep shooting at your original location just to make sure you aren't taking your time lining up a shot. If you activate your cloak, you are forced to move and act.

They also respond to sounds, so no chance of walking up to them with a shotgun either.

Honestly ME3 (haven't played Andromeda) still has one of the best implemented high difficulty settings I've seen in video games.

Click to shrink...

I appreciate the clarifications, I must be forgetting nuances here and there.

 

[ClearMetal]

I appreciate the clarifications, I must be forgetting nuances here and there.

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I wasn't trying to correct you or anything. I just wanted to gush about ME3 a bit more, haha.

 

[Dreamboum]

As you already pointed out. ME1 was its own thing because of how bad it was. No other TPS wants to be like it.

Also, the idea that ME3, and especially ME2, are generic is absurd.

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There isn't anything quite like ME1 because the only system that most people thought was worth copying was the dialogue wheel, haha. Note of course that ME2 and 3 do maintain that, the 2nd game even expands the dialogue system with interrupts.

The through line of the series, from it's conception to it's naming to it's overall structure to it's famous launch trailer was about making tough choices. All three games wind up disappointing me to varying degrees with how badly they mangled some of these choices, but that nevertheless that is the core idea that is maintained the whole time. Making decisions, and experiencing the consequences. You can say that ME2 combat is similar to Gears, and yeah it is, but it's clearly not "just" a Gears of War game, because you're spending half your time not in combat, just like in ME1, talking to people, going on quests, reading codex entries, and making decisions. That's not an experience that is "generic" or that you can just get from any random TPS! It's a totally different overall game because of it.

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The very idea of wanting to modernize it to bring it closer to the norm show that they are generic in the first place.

Andromeda is one such example of a game that is already showing how ME1 with improved gameplay and mako works. They kept hammering that point in interviews, they re going back to the first one! They're taking what's good and putting in a better framework!

Andromeda sucked mad ass, and that has nothing to do with the story in the first place. It was fundamentally soulless and painful to experience. But according to people's metrics this would be the best ME gameplay to date.

 

[LossAversion]

In my fantasy world, a Mass Effect Trilogy remaster would...

- Streamline the combat across all three games so that they each flow into each other perfectly.
- Do the same for equipment and gear. Preferably a middle ground between ME1 and ME2.
- Rethink the Mako entirely. Maybe have the explorable areas fall more in line with the vehicle stuff in Overlord. They need to ditch the empty planets or make them interesting.
- Rework the entire ending of ME3. All it needs to be is a bigger version of the ending of ME2. All of our choices come into play in real time and alter the course of the final battle.

I doubt any of that will happen though. The combat and the Mako stuff in ME1 is pretty bad but I'd still play through it for the story. Honestly, if they fixed the ending of ME3 that would be all the motivation I'd need to replay the entire trilogy. Knowing that it all leads to shit is much bigger issue for me than the janky stuff in ME1.

 

[Dreamboum]

This is how much better ME2 was from ME1. I really felt in a space opera this time. The moment-to-moment gameplay was thrilling. Really glad we got rid of the shitty mako.



Can't wait to probe Uranus hehe :)

 

[stat84]

Whenever i hear the word Makoni i instantly feel tired so at least change that

 

[Deleted member 19924]

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[Braag]

Even back in the day I thought the combat was a little boring and the way the mako handled was janky as hell. It was the characters, the world and the story that made the game good.