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Sampson

Banned
Nov 17, 2017
1,196
You see a lot of drive-by posts of this kind in any Stadia related topic. (A quick example but there are many.)

It's become a meme -- but one with little backing. It's intellectually lazy and it's uninteresting.

Why is anyone using Chrome? Shouldn't you use Firefox since Google could shut it down? Better not backup your photos on Google Photos. That's probably going to get shut down soon and you'll lose all your pictures! And how about Android? Why are you investing in the Android ecosystem? Google will certainly end support for Android any day now. Maps? Gmail? Google Play? Google Drive? Google Docs? Google Assistant? YouTube? ChromeOS? Why doesn't anyone worry about these going away? Why do hundreds of millions of people (billions in the case of some of these services) use them every day?

Yes Google does shut a lot of their services down. Google+, Inbox, Allo, Project Ara, Reader, more recently Daydream and Clips, just to name a few. The list goes on and on. Why does Google shut down so many of their services, and yet have so many that are so popular and have been around for so long?

Google doesn't invest in services with the intention of shutting them down, as most of these drive-by posts on Stadia imply. Google experiments frequently, looking for big hits. When it finds a big hit, it becomes a defining element of the consumer Internet. When it doesn't, they get shut down and go away.

You have to understand Google's strategy as a business, and how they make money. Google is an Internet-based, consumer software-as-a-service company. It's not like Apple, which is trying to sell people devices, or Microsoft which is trying to sell software to companies. It makes services for people and gives them away for free (Android and ChromeOS are free for device makers, who then pass that on to consumers in the form of lower-priced devices). Despite that, Google makes a lot of money, and the process is fairly straightforward:

(1) Release a free service that attracts users -> (2) take the data from those users to make the service better -> (3) as the service gets better, attract more users, collect more data -> (4) sell targeted ads using the data -> (5) take the ad money and invest in more developers to make the service even better. Repeat forever. Eventually, the service gets so good that there is almost no competition, especially not for free. Sometimes, services collect data for other services or facilitate their usage (e.g. Chrome is just a way to drive more traffic to Google Search).

Google releases a lot of different services. When a service is successful, it gets this cycle right. When it releases an unsuccessful service, it doesn't. The unsuccessful services usually fail in the first part of the cycle, never attracting enough initial users to give Google the momentum it needs to improve its products. Those services get shut down, and the resources are reshuffled to work on other services.

If Stadia gets shut down in a few years, it will be because it failed and no one -- or almost no one -- will have bothered to use it. The shutting down aspect will be an afterthought. People won't even remember it -- like "Oh Stadia? I haven't heard of that in years. No one bothered to use it." Not: "All these people were playing on Stadia but then Google got bored and pulled the plug!" That will not happen.

Google is investing a lot in Stadia. They hired big name industry veterans. They held dedicated press events. They've been working on the tech for at least several years. And once the free tier is launched, Stadia will check the boxes all of Google's other successful services have checked. Free? Check. Appealing for millions of people? Check. Can be made better over time with data? Check. Can sell targeted ads? Check.

There are other strategic reasons Google has for investing in Stadia, and why it will probably keep it around for years even if it doesn't become popular right away.
  1. Stadia is a YouTube extension. YouTube is a big part of Google, and like Google's other services, has a near monopoly within its niche. The only legitimate competition YouTube faces is from Twitch. That competition could intensify as Twitch expands into other verticals. Stadia could draw people away from Twitch and prevent that from happening.
  2. Stadia will give Google a ton of data it can use to train its AI models, which will then be deployed to improve Google's other services (Assistant, Search) and also improve the AI tools it gives developers that work on Google Cloud. That could make Google Cloud a more compelling choice vs Azure, etc in the cloud computing space.
Personally, I think a lot of posters on this forum are underestimating Stadia because they don't fully grasp the appeal of a free console. If video games are a big part of your life, buying a box for $300-$400 just isn't a big deal. But for most people, that's not the case. If Stadia works even decently well, millions of people who are not core gamers will flock to it, and the feedback loop Google has used to turn all of its mega services into a success will start working. It will become so popular it will be industry defining.
 

Lashley

<<Tag Here>>
Member
Oct 25, 2017
59,937
killedbygoogle.com

(I doubt they'll kill Stadia, unless it's a colossal failure)
 

Blablurn

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,946
Germany
I can totally see him killing it off in 1-2y if it doesnt take off at all. Im still surprised who is actually gonna spend full price on streaming experiences. or they just gonna change the business model.
 
Nov 3, 2017
4,393
Your wall of text still isn't bigger than Google's Graveyard their record more than speaks for itself, I hope Stadia does stick around but the entire world isn't there yet which means it's limited to the very privileged
 

Deleted member 58846

User requested account closure
Banned
Jul 28, 2019
5,086
It's not a meme, it's based and founded in historical precedent. Google is a wildly experimental company, but it has the attention span of a toddler, and there are dozens upon dozens of major projects it drops or discontinues every year.

We have no reason to suspect Stadia may be different. The onus is on Google to prove otherwise.
 

Chris McQueen

Self-requested ban
The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
5,378
London
giphy.webp
 

Valcrist

Tic-Tac-Toe Champion
Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,693
Stadia is gonna bomb.

Feel free to quote me and laugh if I'm wrong a year from now.
 

BlueManifest

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,321
It's something a group of people started to make people fear investing in stadia because they don't like it
 

julian

Member
Oct 27, 2017
16,760
For such a long post, you kind of answer your own question right here:

Google doesn't invest in services with the intention of shutting them down, as most of these drive-by posts on Stadia imply. Google experiments frequently, looking for big hits. When it finds a big hit, it becomes a defining element of the consumer Internet. When it doesn't, they get shut down and go away.

The people saying this don't think it will be a big hit right out the gate. So the question is how long will they support it while trying to build it up and how long before they just give up and shut it down? It's shorthand for "this won't be a hit within a year".
 

Linus815

Member
Oct 29, 2017
19,725
i use google products all the time but its not a meme, their track record speaks for itself. google likes to experiemnt and if something doesnt pan out then they will pull the plug, simple as that.
 

AuthenticM

Son Altesse Sérénissime
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
30,036
Google doesn't invest in services with the intention of shutting them down, as most of these drive-by posts on Stadia imply. Google experiments frequently, looking for big hits. When it finds a big hit, it becomes a defining element of the consumer Internet. When it doesn't, they get shut down and go away.
If Stadia gets shut down in a few years, it will be because it failed and no one -- or almost no one -- will have bothered to use it. The shutting down aspect will be an afterthought. People won't even remember it -- like "Oh Stadia? I haven't heard of that in years. No one bothered to use it." Not: "All these people were playing on Stadia but then Google got bored and pulled the plug!" That will not happen.
This wouldn't be an issue if Google didn't force people to buy games on the Stadia for them to work. But they do. If I buy Stadia games and suddenly I can't play them in two years because Google shut down the service, that's a big fucking issue.

Personally, I think a lot of posters on this forum are underestimating Stadia because they don't fully grasp the appeal of a free console.
But it's not free. Nothing is free with Stadia. How are you ignoring this after putting so much effort in your OP?
 

Deleted member 5322

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,523
Nobody's doubting Google's ability to keep services afloat. They're doubting Google's ability to keep gaming services afloat.
 

darkside

Member
Oct 26, 2017
11,265
I can't imagine the group of people who weren't willing to buy a console or PC for games before because of the cost are also going to immediately flock to a service that is charging people the traditional full price for the games. Legit thought they would have a service like Gamepass out of the gate but ... they don't.
 

Semfry

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,954
This seems like splitting hairs? No, Google didn't make Stadia out of some weird fetish to waste money on things to shut down, but people who say it's going to be shut down don't think it will be the success google wants, which is basically agreeing with you (except they think it will fail and you don't).
 

saenima

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
11,892
Says doubting Stadia's success is lazy and uninteresting, with no backing. Proceeds to explain exactly why people have doubts and ends saying Stadia will be industry defining. With nothing to back it but wishful thinking.

Alrighty then.
 

ann3nova.

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,136
The problem with your argument is that Google is known for shutting down popular services as well. Hangouts, Reader, Inbox, some of which are examples from your post.

Stadia will not be successful as long as Google continues the pay structure it currently has. What will make it potentially successful is when they launch a subscription service that gives access to games you don't have to purchase afterwards.

I'm going to estimate this will occur 1.5 - 2 years from now.

...if they don't shut it down.
 
Oct 29, 2017
4,721
User Banned (3 days): accusing other members of shilling
Stadia will get shut down in a matter of years and all of your purchases and all of the hundreds to thousands of dollars that you pump into it will die with it.

And no amount of astroturfing is going to change that.
 

Absoludacrous

One Winged Slayer
The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
3,182
Google doesn't invest in services with the intention of shutting them down, as most of these drive-by posts on Stadia imply. Google experiments frequently, looking for big hits. When it finds a big hit, it becomes a defining element of the consumer Internet. When it doesn't, they get shut down and go away.

I stopped reading here. You typically don't want to undermine your own argument so badly within the first few paragraphs.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,857
sorry op, not willing to support a company that has a history of killing underperforming products

if stadia was just a subscription, maybe it would be different.

except it really wouldn't be, because I have a bandwidth limit and iffy internet to begin with.
 

Jonnax

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,920
"Stadia will give Google a ton of data it can use to train its AI models, which will then be deployed to improve Google's other services (Assistant, Search)"

Lol what is this? Training for button presses on video games?

Stadia is a huge investment of hardware for their data centres.

If people don't use it and it flops, they will can it. And give people their money back perhaps.
 

OG_Thrills

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,655
I don't think it will be successful due to the infrastructure and lack of compelling content you can't get elsewhere. But I'm interested to see the progression regardless.
 

grmlin

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,291
Germany
Pretty sure the world isn't ready for stadia, but I guess google knows better what to do lol.
I love the idea of it and would totally give it a try, but I'll wait for subscriptions that work with stadia.
 

MalcomFleX

Alt account
Banned
Sep 9, 2019
593
When I read that the Stadia version of Destiny 2 wasn't going to share PC's player base, I laughed. Why would I pay for that?
 

iceblade

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,213
I mean look what happened with Google Fiber.

Like others have said, there've been a LOT of services Google shuts down. Even successful services (Hangouts) wind up getting replace with worse alternatives. Being skeptical of their investment and commitment to Stadia isn't just a meme - it's founded on precedent, and unlike someone like Sony (who cut and run with the Vita but is reliant on Playstation for a large percentage of their profits as a whole) or Nintendo (who cut and run with the Wii U, and is even more reliant than Sony on profits from their gaming division), Google doesn't really need to be as invested in gaming so (IMO) the likelihood of them cutting and running is higher if it doesn't take off like they want it to.
 

riotous

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,325
Seattle
Almost all of Google's killed products weren't even ad supported. None of them were directly supported by $ spent by consumers.

It is a little tiresome that people ignore that; Google has never killed anything off where users have to purchase digital products. Just re-branded.

Would be highly unprecedented for them to kill off Stadia.
 

fontguy

Avenger
Oct 8, 2018
16,152
Just about every service/software you listed gives them crazy amounts of user data that can feed into their other businesses, making them crazy valuable and worth maintaining even if they lose money.

As far as I can tell, Stadia does not.
 

Segafreak

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,756
"It's become a meme -- but one with little backing "

"Yes Google does shut a lot of their services down"

OP killed his own argument a paragraph later lol. There is literally a dedicated website for killed google services, what do you mean "with little backing"? Stadia seems like just another product google thinks they need to be in but without a passion for it. If they had passion for games, they'd start their own dev studios to try entice people for their platform. They think "Netflix of gaming" is something they can achieve without the Netflix Originals behind it.

If streaming doesn't take off like VR didn't take off, expect the end of Stadia service in a few years.
 

Bjones

Member
Oct 30, 2017
5,622
"Gamers" are afraid of change .. which is dumb because it's one of the fastest changing industries.
 

riotous

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,325
Seattle
Just about every service/software you listed gives them crazy amounts of user data that can feed into their other businesses, making them crazy valuable and worth maintaining even if they lose money.

As far as I can tell, Stadia does not.
The value of "data" is way over stated.

Google is charging people MONEY for Stadia lol
 
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