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Oct 31, 2017
9,622
I don't think so, but now I'm doubting myself because I stealth edit all the time, lol. Poor forum etiquette on my part!

Lol it's no biggie. I do the same thing haha. EDIT - even to this post!

It occurs to me that maybe the problem is that Star Wars needs a most important person (even if it isn't necessarily him) AND a team of people to help refine the content.

I think it needs to be put to rest, honestly. That yes, Star Wars needs a visionary, but that's just it, a visionary should be working on the NEXT Star Wars equivalent, not Star Wars itself.
 

Tansut

One Winged Slayer
Avenger
Dec 16, 2017
2,463
If RoS could have remotely stuck the landing we wouldn't be having this convo. That movie shit the bed so bad that it's turds broken space-time and made them hate the entire trilogy wholesale.
 

Nairume

SaGa Sage
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,929
I think it needs to be put to rest, honestly. That yes, Star Wars needs a visionary, but that's just it, a visionary should be working on the NEXT Star Wars equivalent, not Star Wars itself.
I disagree. I think we can have visionaries that try and do the next big setting/franchise, while also leaving star wars around as a playground for people to do stuff in.

The thing that specifically needs to be put to rest is the idea that core Star Wars movies HAVE to be trilogies, since Disney especially fucked up by not realizing that the OT was only a trilogy because George got tired and wanted to be done with things and the prequels were only a trilogy because they were forced to be (and ended up being worse for it)
 

UltraMagnus

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
15,670
Even for people who say "well Revenge of the Sith was good!" ... ok, but ROTS basically used the last remaining great ideas that Lucas had from the original trilogy (which is the back story he wrote for Vader's origin).

There is zero chance any new story he would've come up with would've had anywhere near that much "juice" in it ... what you would've gotten from a Lucas Star Wars sequel trilogy basically would've been three Attack of the Clones caliber movies.

And sorry, as flawed as the sequel trilogy is, it's nowhere near as bad as Attack of the Clones.
 

1138

Member
Sep 7, 2018
235
Agreed. The sequel trilogy was creatively bankrupt, and I dont believe they expanded the universe in and meaningful way. Sure, TFA and TLJ was competantly made, but the overall story, with the exception of the character interactions between Luke, Rey and Kylo, felt like a waste. JJ and RJ are better directors than Lucas, but Lucas would have made a much more interesting and deeper scenario than what we were served in the sequels. It is really obvious that Disney rushed it for the money.
 

UltraMagnus

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
15,670
Agreed. The sequel trilogy was creatively bankrupt, and I dont believe they expanded the universe in and meaningful way. Sure, TFA and TLJ was competantly made, but the overall story, with the exception of the character interactions between Luke, Rey and Kylo, felt like a waste. JJ and RJ are better directors than Lucas, but Lucas would have made a much more interesting and deeper scenario than what we were served in the sequels. It is really obvious that Disney rushed it for the money.

Deeper scenario based on what exactly?

Without the huge draw of the Vader backstory that he came up with during the OT ... what you would have gotten would've been three Attack of the Clones caliber movies most likely.

The only reason Revenge of the Sith has some sizzle on it is because of the Vader story, but now that he had used that up, all that would've happened is he would've gone back to Attack of the Clones caliber stuff.

There's nothing deep about Attack of the Clones or Phantom Menace.
 

GameAddict411

Member
Oct 26, 2017
8,513
I think it would have ended up worse. I enjoyed the new movies more then any of the old ones. Come murder me lol. Star wars fanatics are worst kind of fans. they could never be made satisfied with anything so I just ignore them.
 

Hamchan

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
4,964
Don't let him write or direct but come up with all his ideas. For all the flak the prequels deservedly receives, his ideas and world building were so top notch it fueled a bunch of great expanded universe stuff like the video games and a great tv show in the Clone Wars.

You can tell that the Lucas films were made because he wanted to make them and was inspired creatively, where with the Disney films you can tell they just wanted to shit them out to make money.
 
Nov 2, 2017
2,090
Phantom Menace and Attack of the Clones presented a world that at least feels lived in and flavorful, and not just a series of wastelands and meant to shepherd us from one OT-rehash plot bit to the next.

Lucas's plot and directing might have been ass in this theoretical sequel trilogy, but I'd take it any day over the soulless husk that is the sequels.

In an ideal world, Lucas writes the plot and leads all of the world design, a separate person tightens up the plot into a decent script, and others direct.
 

UltraMagnus

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
15,670
I'll take Papa Lucas to whatever that corporate hive minds produce

Considering TPM and AOTC can't hold a candle to TFA and TLJ that's not saying a lot. Not to mention the last Indiana Jones was terrible too and mostly because Lucas insisted on a premise/story that neither Spielberg or Ford wanted.
 

Trike

One Winged Slayer
The Fallen
Nov 6, 2017
2,392
There being a Rodian on Tatooine (who isn't child Greedo lmao) is fine. R2's origin isn't that bad, but C-3PO being built by Anakin is pretty bad yeah.

Chewbacca and Kashyyk being in Episode 3 isn't so bad either, because that was the original plans for what became the Ewoks. We could have done without Chewbacca there though, sure.

By no means do I think the PT are perfect, but I do think they are a hell of a lot better than the ST in most meaningful ways, beyond superficialities.

Child Greedo was in a deleted scene from Phantom Menace. PT had plenty of pandering to the OT it just wasn't as obvious because they were mostly a train wreck. The PT introduced a lot more original concepts to the Star Wars series than the ST but both TFA/TLJ were better movies than anything the prequel trilogy put out.

I made fun of Death Star/Death Star II because the topic was making a pretty broad assumptions. Lucas likely would've had significantly more original concepts, but if he had the same degree of involvement as the prequels then we probably would've ended up with three bad films. For evidence I point to the prequels and literally every film he has made since those. The ST being a disappointment doesn't sudden make Lucas a better filmmaker. If he stayed on as an advisor to the ST and Disney/Lucasfilm actually listened to his feedback then we probably would've had a better ST.
 

Terra Torment

Banned
Jan 4, 2020
840
MMMMM, no, I am not convinced. There were things about the sequel trilogy I can quibble with, one of which was the complete lack of any political context for what the resistance and the first order even were with respect to the New Republic and the Empire but over all I had fun watching the movies in a way I did not with the first two prequel movies.
 

UltraMagnus

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
15,670
Phantom Menace and Attack of the Clones presented a world that at least feels lived in and flavorful, and not just a series of wastelands and meant to shepherd us from one OT-rehash plot bit to the next.

Lucas's plot and directing might have been ass in this theoretical sequel trilogy, but I'd take it any day over the soulless husk that is the sequels.

In an ideal world, Lucas writes the plot and leads all of the world design, a separate person tightens up the plot into a decent script, and others direct.

Lucas "world design" is badly overrated too, you can see clearly in the behind the scenes of the prequels he basically walks into a room where like 50 other production designers present him with dozens of different choices and he just picks and chooses.

Also Timothy Zahn created Coruscant, not Lucas, so basically the most striking planet in the prequels wasn't even his creation.
 
Last edited:
Nov 2, 2017
2,090
Lucas "world design" is badly overrated too, you can see clearly in the behind the scenes of the prequels he basically walks into a room where like 50 other production designers present him with dozens of different choices and he just picks and chooses.

Also Timothy Zahn created Coruscant, not Lucas.
I know Zahn created Coruscant.

He picked and chose, and yet somehow the galaxy as presented in the PT had people and weird alien races and cities, and all kinds of new shit. Even if it didn't directly come out of his brain, I trust Lucas's intuition on this over the wondrous team of creatives and helmsmen that invented the numerous animatronic grey blob aliens and grassy/sandy/destroyed vistas of the ST.


Phantom Menace spends half of its time dicking around in the most recognizable OT setting.
And it gave us the inventive as hell pod racing sequence, along with a new look at an old setting. It also showed us the Senate at its height and the scale of the Republic. It gave us Naboo, and the wide difference in Human and Gungan architecture. Brand new enemies to fight, not just slightly altered stormtroopers. And so on.
 
Oct 31, 2017
9,622
Child Greedo was in a deleted scene from Phantom Menace. PT had plenty of pandering to the OT it just wasn't as obvious because they were mostly a train wreck. The PT introduced a lot more original concepts to the Star Wars series than the ST but both TFA/TLJ were better movies than anything the prequel trilogy put out.

I made fun of Death Star/Death Star II because the topic was making a pretty broad assumptions. Lucas likely would've had significantly more original concepts, but if he had the same degree of involvement as the prequels then we probably would've ended up with three bad films. For evidence I point to the prequels and literally every film he has made since those. The ST being a disappointment doesn't sudden make Lucas a better filmmaker. If he stayed on as an advisor to the ST and Disney/Lucasfilm actually listened to his feedback then we probably would've had a better ST.

I didn't realize there was a cut kid Greedo, but even then, I don't think it would have been that bad. Yeah there's quite a bit of pandering to the OT in the PT, but I don't think it's nearly as bad as the wholesale pandering that is the ST (well, really TFA and TROS). For the most part, I feel like The Last Jedi mostly evades the criticism I aim and feel towards the ST. I think it mostly succeeds, even if there is quite a bit of it that I'm not particularly fond of.

I think that the ST is better crafted films from a technical, execution perspective. But I think they are much worse, much more shallow, disposable art that will not stand the test of time, overall. And that despite the PT's usage/execution of CGI, I think they will stand up far longer and far more favorably.
 

UltraMagnus

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
15,670
I know Zahn created Coruscant.

He picked and chose, and yet somehow the galaxy as presented in the PT had people and weird alien races and cities, and all kinds of new shit. Even if it didn't directly come out of his brain, I trust Lucas's intuition on this over the wondrous team of creatives and helmsmen that invented the numerous animatronic grey blob aliens and grassy/sandy/destroyed vistas of the ST.

Do "vistas" really make a great movie anyway? If so Jupiter Ascending must be a masterpiece, because it has world visuals beyond any of the Star Wars movies.

Attack of the Clones was terrible, no thanks to a trilogy of that (he would not be able to pull of ROTS again, which itself is still a mediocre film).
 

Mahonay

Member
Oct 25, 2017
33,316
Pencils Vania
I'll take Papa Lucas to whatever that corporate hive minds produce
giphy.gif
 

Nairume

SaGa Sage
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,929
And it gave us the inventive as hell pod racing sequence
It wasn't that inventive. People were already calling it out for being a Ben-Hur ripoff in 1999

along with a new look at an old setting.
The only real new look at Tatooine was that it had enough money for a racing circuit. It's otherwise everything we already knew from the OT.

It also showed us the Senate at its height and the scale of the Republic.
This was good, yes.

Naboo is honestly one of the blandest locals in the entire franchise because it looks so obviously faked.

and the wide difference in Human and Gungan architecture.
The gungan setting and their technology is good, but is also overshadowed by...well...the gungans themselved being awful

Brand new enemies to fight, not just slightly altered stormtroopers. And so on.
Brand new doesn't always mean better, especially when brand new largely meant we were seeing goofy looking toy robots for most of the movie.
 

Grimsey

Member
Nov 1, 2017
539
Let the deranged and broken old man tell his story, people!

I don't even know if I'm being sarcastic!
 

matrix-cat

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,284
Be amazed as I use my crystal ball to peer into the alternate dimension where George Lucas made Episodes 7, 8 and 9:

"This fucking sucks. Why did we expect him to get better after the Prequels? Imagine if Disney had bought Star Wars; they're killing it with Marvel, they could have done something incredible."

Pick your jaws up off the floor as I open a window into the alternate dimension where Kevin Feige was given Star Wars:

"This fucking sucks. Marvel humour in Star Wars. They aren't even doing trilogies any more. Such soulless, corporate, hivemind art-by-committee."

Behold, the alternate dimension where shouting manbabies get their way and Kathleen Kennedy is fired:

"This fucking sucks, nothing has changed, but at least a woman isn't in charge any more so I'm just going to pretend things are fine now."

Marvel as I bridge a connection to the alternate dimension where Disney/LFL had just delayed Ep IX to allow Rian Johnson to make it after he wrapped Knives Out:

"This is actually wonderful. We're so blessed to live in the best of all dimensions."
 

Laserdisk

Banned
May 11, 2018
8,942
UK
If he wasn't a director and didn't write the dialogue, then possibly.
Yep.
People white knighting the prequels are just something I will never understand.

It took his exwife to fix Star Wars, he had script revisions and a different director make the second and best one in Empire, people hated Jedi back then and his ghost direction didn't help anything.
The prequels gave us dual of the fates.....


Is it youth? I saw then all in the cinema and I still want my money back.


The second best film was in the ST.
 

Osahi

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,929
Nah. He would've introduced some new ideas, but the ST is very similar to his sequel pitch. And the talk of going into the microbiological world of the Midichlorians or something sounds new, but terrible. And if he was at the helm we wouldn't have gotten TLJ (or a terrible version of a similar story)

For how much the PT was part of my teenage years, having revisited all Star Wars movies in the run-up to TROS it was very clear the ST is way better than the PT, which manages to fuck up a very clear and straightforward 'fall'-story. It has good stuff in them, but the terrible is absolutely terrible and as a whole they don't really work.

The ST (just like the OT) falters in it's final movie. (I liked TROS the first time, the second time the flaws became way more apparent, but I still feel a lot of the ideas are there, and some scenes work - though JJ has a knack of aiming at the audience in stead of at the characters, which becomes more apparent on a second watch. There is just a lot of stuff that is mediocre or misguided. Bringing back Palpatine was a mistake) It gave us a very fun opening movie setting up some great new characters, followed it up with an amazing middle part that really struck home how much I love these characters, and finished it of with a very uneven last one I can still enjoy because after the previous two I love these characters so much.

The main issue with the ST is TROS, which probably would've been way better if it didn't have the shortened production schedule after sacking Trevorrow. Because overall that movie just feels rushed and undercooked.
 

Disco

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,445
it would have been exciting to have him on script and production duties. Not as director though, but as an ideas man I think he'd be cool to have collaborate with.
 

AwShucks

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,944
As a whole, I like the sequel trilogy more than the prequel trilogy. And I think TFA is my favorite Star Wars. So no, I don't have to face anything.
 

FaceHugger

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
13,949
USA
Going by the prequels, I am not so sure. I know the sequels weren't that great overall, but just thinking about episode 1 and 2 I cannot think Lucas would have churned out something better than what we got.

Also I am pretty sure I read that he was actually consulted and some of his ideas were used? Or am I just misremembering?
 

Vetinari

Banned
Oct 31, 2019
64
I agree.
Not a popular opinion but I think that the prequels, warts and all, are far more interesting than the original trilogy.
 

egg

The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
6,579
With the right writers yes, people seem to forget how involved with the clone wars animated series he was. His ideas but fleshed out with people who could compliment them and carry them further.
 

Temp_User

Member
Oct 30, 2017
4,697
He would have showed us something new and different. The premise would have undoubtedly been better and more original. He would have pushed the visual effects again. He would have taken more time between movies. He probably would have enlisted some good writers to help him flesh out his ideas. He may have just directed episode 7 and let others finish the rest of the trilogy. It would have been the consistent vision of one artist .. who would have something to say.

You know it's true.

Only in a general story-writing and showrunner role. Let more talented people handle the directing and screenplay specifics.
 

Kain

Unshakable Resolve - One Winged Slayer
The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
7,599
Lucas is the Nomura of cinema (well actually Nomura is the Lucas of videogames lol), so great ideas and imagination but terrible terrible writing and execution unless somebody is keeping him on check. Which didn't happen in the prequels and therefore they were a mess. So if he had proper help? Sure, but the same can be said for the new trilogy where there was no vision and no guiding hand.
 

Deleted member 2254

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
21,467
Hard to say, but yeah at least the prequels tried doing something new. I'll always prefer a failed but original take on a familiar formula (prequel trilogy, Batman v Superman, etc.) than stuff like the sequel trilogy or some of the more generic Marvel movies that almost seem like procedurally generated for how safe, predictable and unoriginal they are. Like, when there's more inventive and bold ideas in Transformers movies than in Star Wars episodes, you know something's wrong.
 

Trike

One Winged Slayer
The Fallen
Nov 6, 2017
2,392
I didn't realize there was a cut kid Greedo, but even then, I don't think it would have been that bad. Yeah there's quite a bit of pandering to the OT in the PT, but I don't think it's nearly as bad as the wholesale pandering that is the ST (well, really TFA and TROS). For the most part, I feel like The Last Jedi mostly evades the criticism I aim and feel towards the ST. I think it mostly succeeds, even if there is quite a bit of it that I'm not particularly fond of.

I think that the ST is better crafted films from a technical, execution perspective. But I think they are much worse, much more shallow, disposable art that will not stand the test of time, overall. And that despite the PT's usage/execution of CGI, I think they will stand up far longer and far more favorably.

It's a quick scene that is a pretty obvious nod towards him dying in A New Hope. The prequel trilogy largely does not stand up already. Episodes 1/2 not holding up has already been established. I don't think TFA will be looked down upon as much for having a super death star as much as you think. The ST backlash as a whole only really got strong once RoS disappointed everyone.
 

Cheerilee

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,969
Going by the prequels, I am not so sure. I know the sequels weren't that great overall, but just thinking about episode 1 and 2 I cannot think Lucas would have churned out something better than what we got.
George Lucas never wanted to direct. A George Lucas produced (not written or directed) Sequel Trilogy would probably be more in line with the Clone Wars cartoon, which George was quietly working on for years, to a great deal of fan and critical acclaim.

Edit: The highly-praised "Mandalorian" series stems directly from George's work on the Clone Wars cartoon.

Also I am pretty sure I read that he was actually consulted and some of his ideas were used? Or am I just misremembering?
George gave Disney a full outline (not scripts, they would need a proper talented writer to go over them and turn them into scripts) for the Sequel Trilogy, although Disney was under no contractual obligation to use the outline. Disney also talked about being very respectful and consulting with George as they went along. But...

When Disney met with Lucas to tell him what they were planning for their new films, Iger writes, "George immediately got upset as they began to describe the plot and it dawned on him that we weren't using one of the stories he submitted during the negotiations. … Now, in the first meeting with him about the future of 'Star Wars,' George felt betrayed. And while this whole process would never have been easy for him, we'd gotten off to an unnecessarily rocky start."
This is probably around the time when George Lucas told the media that selling Star Wars to Disney felt like he had sold his children to White Slavers.
Iger writes of Lucas' first viewing of the film: "Just prior to the global release, Kathy [Kennedy] screened 'The Force Awakens' for George. He didn't hide his disappointment. 'There's nothing new,' he said. In each of the films in the original trilogy, it was important to him to present new worlds, new stories, new characters, and new technologies. In this one, he said, 'There weren't enough visual or technical leaps forward.'"

However, JJ Abrams and Rian Johnson did apparently lift random bits and pieces from George's outline.