I mean it largely is just face shots. The full body shots are only shown in like one scene and it's so brief that it's easy to forget they ever showed up. The nurse's proportions are dumb, but it's relatively minor in the grand scheme of things
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Let's discuss the common complaint about 13 Sentinels (examples within)
- Thread starter Jaymageck
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But why even have them in the first place? That's the question. This could have been accomplished in a much better way, but Vanillaware gonna Vanillaware.
For what it's worth, I'm enjoying the game. The writing is good and the Sakimoto music is amazing. But this issue is just a bruise on a good piece of fruit. It just takes away from it.
I've read all the spoilers. That is exactly what is happening.
Mentioned above but they could have just as easily changed the portraits to faces only to avoid this situation but they didn't because they wanted to pander.
I mean I agree, but I feel like people act like this shit is way more constant and blatant than it actually is
Well, you do see those gratuitous risque shots every time the person speaks in the battle sequences. Face shots would have accomplished it just the same.
Same with the nurse, to a degree.
It's not. All the characters are exactly the age they appear. The only exception is the child Chihiro clone who had the memories of original 2188 Morimura injected but she isn't ever sexualized at all. The main characters who ride the mechs are all 16, and all appear 16. Maybe you're confused because in the ending they force the program into it's next phase early so they get a message they were only supposed to hear when they turned 18, but that's because the Kaiju stuff that had been added would've made it impossible to actually last the full 18 years they were meant to have because the Kaiju's were specifically programmed to appear years before so that they'd reset the program before it finished
I agree those 2 portraits are an issue but the complaints feel overblown. It's a brief moment (most of the time it is face portraits) in a 30+ hr game in a genre with way WAY worse examples. People need to save their energy instead of wasting their energy on something honestly so mild I forgot was in the game until I read the OP.
like, people don't have to like it or play it, but saying it's the worst game is just silly af.
I've played the game, you're incorrect.
I'm just tired of people acting like this game is practically child pornography or something especially given it's fucking rated T for Teen. Stuff like the persona games (or hell even some final fantasy characters) are honestly way worse in terms of stuff like this and I don't feel like I see anywhere near the same amount of criticism for those
I've seen people saying this about the main cast a few times now and I have no idea where they're getting it from because it's simply not true. The characters are all introduced as being 16 years old and no story twist ever changes that fact. They're 16.
I love Vanillaware but I think i will pass on this game for that reason. Not about to have my wife walk in the room while I'm piloting a naked teenager and being like "WELL ACTUALLY....."
The Persona games shouldn't get a pass either. They depict high school students in sexualized manners way too often.
Like, gimme a Persona game with 20-something office workers. That would be amazing.
To be clear, I'm not excusing the problematic content that does exist, but I'm just fucking tired of people acting like it's the game's defining feature when it's incredibly tame and minor. Final Fantasy X sexualizes Rikku, who is 15, way more than any off the teenage characters in this game and you don't have people acting like you're ok with child porn or shit like that when people say they liked that game. Is it dumb and bad in both cases? yeah. Should we ask for better? yeah. Do you have to play it if this bothers you too much? No. Is it a problem if it bothers you that much? Absolutely not. But a bunch of people here act like it's some major part of the game and it's really, really fucking not
I get that you were making a joke, but is that really the way it has to go? If someone walks in on me playing 13 Sentinels and sees naked people I would just be like "heh, pretty cringe, right?" Like I don't feel like I'm endorsing or have to justify whatever's on the screen just because I'm playing it.
This thread is the only space I've even seen it mentioned, but "it should change the way we discuss the game"? Because of a few Era posts? Hardly anyone has even played it to begin with, so it's just laughable that there's any sort of wide criticism that's being silenced or ignored, some unsung controversy.
We can float these criticisms without implying Vanillaware is getting away with something on some grand scale LOL
my wife wouldn't actually care but i still find it distasteful
This pops up in literally every thread people make about the game on this forum with a bunch of people who have literally not played the game at all trying to convince people to not touch the game by acting like this is some huge aspect of the game when it's largely a dumb but incredibly minor aspect. It tends to derail those threads for large portions of a time when people just want to talk about how it's really cool scifi story with some really ambitious and excellent story telling. I'm honestly really glad it gets it's own thread because while I do think this is worth discussing I'm tired of it being used to derail literally every thread recommending the game with very little context from people who haven't actually touched the game itself. Especially since I feel like a bunch of people attacking the game try to paint anyone defending the game's many merits as fucking sex offenders or just short of that
This is how I feel about it as well. Like it annoyed me while playing it but the criticism towards this game specifically has become really outsized compared to so many other beloved games that have done similar or worse. Because really, this is unfortunately common stuff in Japanese games and animation.
That's even worse honestly. Just literally creating a controversy out of thin air. I mean,
There's nothing like this in the game, but this is how the discussion will go. I don't know man, I welcome people to miss out on a very good game because of a problem that mostly exists in the heads of people that decided they don't like it without even touching it.
This is my problem with most games with this anime artstyle, the sexualization of women, especially younger looking women or girls. The common trope of that the girl is 18+ plus is obviously designed in a way to look underage yet since she is "18+" she is super sexualized. Or you have adult women with gigantic breasts.
I think I was attracted to anime when I was younger because I was a stupid horny teenage. Now, it just makes me cringe at 38 and avoid it now.
I think I was attracted to anime when I was younger because I was a stupid horny teenage. Now, it just makes me cringe at 38 and avoid it now.
I mean, it's the same guy that made this;
why buy a coke and then complain about the sugar? Just dont buy the coke.
why buy a coke and then complain about the sugar? Just dont buy the coke.
Because this shit doesnt happen with male characters. Like ever. And even when you find one, you can give another 90 examples where it happens to women.
How is there nothing like that in the game when it's one of the examples in the OP?
Totally unnecessary and eye roll inducing? YES
Does it make the game unplayable? NO
Game is really good DESPITE the idiotic suit.
I don't have a lot of deep thoughts on the matter. If you enjoy it, whatever. For me, when I see stuff like this, I simply "nope" out. It doesn't matter how good of word of mouth it gets. I will simply not be engaging with it.
I initially found it marginally comforting that "only" two out of the six of the girls are in a much more revealing and titillating position, but now that I think about it I'm not sure of even that. Cause what's the implication there? Are Fuyusaka and Kisaragi the "sexy" ones so they get the honor of being framed like that? It's not like they're exclusively in a certain gen together either.
Bad choices were made.
Bad choices were made.
I'm on your side. I think George Kamitani artwork is embarrassing and regressive and does nothing to push the medium forward, and instead purpetuates the stereotypical "tits and arse, and no internal organs" woman designs. It's straight up embarrasing, cringey and the works of a manchild wanting an erection.
That first promotional screen of a naked underage girl in a cockpit was pretty much all i needed to see or hear about the game. I don't care if it's written better than shakespeare and plays better than mario, that screen was at any point put in front of any group of people that are going to make any amount of money off of any sale of the game and they said 'yes, that is what we are selling' and signed off on that, that's already a full stop no from me. I don't care how much less present it is in the game or how many ways the game does other things right or how elaborate the fictional justifications are or how much worse other games that people aren't complaining about are, that kind of media just doesn't need to be supported by me, and if im being real honest when i see any of you talking past and around that shit to post about how it's good actually im not giving you the side eye, i'm fully just disappointed by you.
And why does this sexualization need to occur? It just looks something a horny teenager would dream of and draw.
Okay, so how does that change the legit criticism of teenage highschooler naked in mechs??
While correct that it is not a valid defense for the substance of 13 Sentinels, it can still be an indicator of either lazy or bad faith criticism of 13 Sentinels, which is mostly what people are arguing when they bring that up.
It shouldn't be in the game. Within seven minutes of playing it, I immediately made a post in the OT basically saying "Jesus Christ why is this girl naked in a mech". That said, the issue was immediately dropped, it's never mentioned again until the final scenes when it's contextualized, and minus the slightly risque Iori and Tomi shots, isn't really sexualized at all.
I'm a little more annoyed at the (adult) Morimura skin-tight black latex body suit FOR NO REASON. I don't even care if she's large chested, that's just ridiculous. I guess it's an improvement over previous Vanillaware titles, but ugh, I rolled my eyes every time she was on screen.
If you're turned off by that stuff, you're well within your rights. Despite the many positive qualities of the game, developers should always listen and strive to better. You telling them that this stuff (easily fixable) isn't acceptable is a perfectly valid way to express your discontent.
I'm a little more annoyed at the (adult) Morimura skin-tight black latex body suit FOR NO REASON. I don't even care if she's large chested, that's just ridiculous. I guess it's an improvement over previous Vanillaware titles, but ugh, I rolled my eyes every time she was on screen.
If you're turned off by that stuff, you're well within your rights. Despite the many positive qualities of the game, developers should always listen and strive to better. You telling them that this stuff (easily fixable) isn't acceptable is a perfectly valid way to express your discontent.
My point of bringing up how other games was worse wasn't to defend anything, it was to point out that I'm annoyed that this type of conversation for some reason dominates the conversation here for this game in particular despite many worse and more popular offenders existing without people acting like anyone who enjoys those games is fine with pedophilia. I'm not going to deny there are some problematic elements to the game. I'm not even trying to criticize anyone who personally is to bothered by some of those elements to not want to give it a chance. I'm annoyed because the extent of the problems are constantly overexxagerated, usually by people who have no idea how prevalent or bad it is within the actual game (because for the most part it's incredibly minor and occupies an incredibly small part of the run time). It feels like people are attacking this game because they want to attack people who like anime games and because this game is being praised for the story in particular and so they feel like bashing it will justify treating anyone who likes anime as a complete monster rather than because they sincerely care about these issues as much as they claim (because they complain much less when it comes to many games that are much worse)
I haven't played the game yet but with respect to the ass shot I don't see what is inherently wrong with light sex appeal/fan service.
There's a discussion to be had, but OP's breezy take that it's "clearly unnecessary" kind of begs the question, "what is 'necessary' in a video game (or any creative endeavor)?"
EDIT: To add, I think there should be a space where creators (both men and women) can design characters (both men and women) who are confident in their physical sexuality and flaunt it. To outright label any female character with D cups or cleavage an affront to the female gender feels somewhat presumptive, white-knighty, and patronizing in itself. In other words, "there's no defense at all, Kamitami is a disgusting human" is just as misguided and unhelpful as "guyz they're just boobs it's anime get over it."
EDIT for clarity: I'm only specifically addressing the adult characters with the spandex suit and large breasts. No comment is being made on the underage characters because...yeah.
There's a discussion to be had, but OP's breezy take that it's "clearly unnecessary" kind of begs the question, "what is 'necessary' in a video game (or any creative endeavor)?"
EDIT: To add, I think there should be a space where creators (both men and women) can design characters (both men and women) who are confident in their physical sexuality and flaunt it. To outright label any female character with D cups or cleavage an affront to the female gender feels somewhat presumptive, white-knighty, and patronizing in itself. In other words, "there's no defense at all, Kamitami is a disgusting human" is just as misguided and unhelpful as "guyz they're just boobs it's anime get over it."
EDIT for clarity: I'm only specifically addressing the adult characters with the spandex suit and large breasts. No comment is being made on the underage characters because...yeah.
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I mean the exact reasons might be off but my point is that I'm skeptical that all of the criticism is being made in good faith is my point
George Kamitani is a fucked up person. In case y'all forgot, there's a boss fight in Odin Sphere against the Queen of the Dead, and she spends the entire boss fight playing with one of her own tits.
Oh, and did I mention she doesn't actually have a torso? She's a head, a pair of tits and some arms attached to a bony spinal column and that's it.
Shit like this is why Vanillaware does not ever deserve the benefit of the doubt.
Oh, and did I mention she doesn't actually have a torso? She's a head, a pair of tits and some arms attached to a bony spinal column and that's it.
Shit like this is why Vanillaware does not ever deserve the benefit of the doubt.
User banned (1 month): sexist trolling over a series of posts
Let's discuss the common complaint about Smash Bros. Ultimate (examples within)
Wow, what a bunch of puritanical, hypocritical hot takes in here. I better see every person complaining about Morimura up in arms about these two as well. Some of you protest too much, methinks -- the body suit is an anime trope, and the kids sans clothes in mechs are reasonably well-contextualized within the narrative. Get over it, lol.
Wow, what a bunch of puritanical, hypocritical hot takes in here. I better see every person complaining about Morimura up in arms about these two as well. Some of you protest too much, methinks -- the body suit is an anime trope, and the kids sans clothes in mechs are reasonably well-contextualized within the narrative. Get over it, lol.
I don't actually agree with this take at all, given that a lot of the issue is about how the medium in general treats women. There's a difference between a sexualized male character in games and a sexualized female in games because one is an exception and the other is the norm. The body suit is also dumb, being a trope doesn't inherently make it not dumb. It's stupid, serves no purpose beyond fanservice, and frankly doesn't even make much sense within the narrative and feels like it only exists in this story because it's a trope and one of the designers found it hot. Like I think the clothes thing does have genuine narrative and thematic purpose to justify why it occurs, but the Morimura stuff is absolutely worth criticizing. I don't think it ruins the game by any means, but I think the complaints are merited thereLet's discuss the common complaint about Smash Bros. Ultimate (examples within)
Wow, what a bunch of puritanical, hypocritical hot takes in here. I better see every person complaining about Morimura up in arms about these two as well. Some of you protest too much, methinks -- the body suit is an anime trope, and the kids sans clothes in mechs are reasonably well-contextualized within the narrative. Get over it, lol.
I do agree that it comes across as inconsistent but I think without it it would've ruined the twists they were trying to set up. It's a necessary inconsistency but at the same time, it is a dumb concession
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