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Let’s talk about the fuckery that is rubberband AI.
- Thread starter Lightning Count
- Start date
As a teenager I used to LOVE going into any race with my kitted and tuned RUF CTR2 in GT3 Aspec and lap everything with 4 wheels.
Now, I don't think I'd enjoy that without a challenge created by rubber banding.
MK makes it infuriating because of the items I think.
Now, I don't think I'd enjoy that without a challenge created by rubber banding.
MK makes it infuriating because of the items I think.
I always hated this and how obvious it was in F-Zero on SNES. It literally doesn't matter how well you're racing. You could be having as much of a perfect lap as you want, but veer into a border just a tiny little bit and immediately the warning sign appears behind you. It's total bullshit and made me not want to play it.
Having the AI rubberband when you're in the lead is bad game design. Having it when the AI is in the lead is good game design.
Unfortunately, most games do it the wrong way around where the AI rubber bands when you're ahead, then has no rubberbanding once they overtake you. The former means that the only part of the race that matters is the final stretch of the last lap, and the rest of the race is just there to waste the player's time. The lack of the latter means that one bad lap means you have no chance of a good placement, and, again, is a waste of the player's time.
Shoutout to the absolute bullshit that was Kingdom Hearts: Birth By Sleep's racing minigame. Fuck Huey, Dewey, and Louis with a ten foot pole.
Unfortunately, most games do it the wrong way around where the AI rubber bands when you're ahead, then has no rubberbanding once they overtake you. The former means that the only part of the race that matters is the final stretch of the last lap, and the rest of the race is just there to waste the player's time. The lack of the latter means that one bad lap means you have no chance of a good placement, and, again, is a waste of the player's time.
Shoutout to the absolute bullshit that was Kingdom Hearts: Birth By Sleep's racing minigame. Fuck Huey, Dewey, and Louis with a ten foot pole.
Nooooo not my darling too. How can you betray me like that, GT Sport :((
Are you always this riled up when someone asks a question?
Not sure if Forza has rubberbanding during a race, but I would rather more games take its approach to dynamic difficulty: don't fuck with the results too much and let cars be way faster/slower than you naturally, and if there's a major disconnect between your ability and the AI difficulty, tell this to the player and suggest a change (with corresponding benefits if you increase). Like, I'm very much okay with having competitive or even close to impossible races, but don't misrepresent the performance of the AI racers in the middle of a race.
I hated the rubberband AI in NBA Jam and Hang Time. Let me beat these jabronies by 20 points; I know I'm good for that. But no, the computer has to go on a ridiculous hot streak in the 3rd quarter, hitting unconscionable 3's and stealing the ball on every possession. Now I have spend the 4th quarter trying to comeback instead of styling on these fools.
I haven't noticed issues more recently, but there was a point at which the rubber-banding was clearly there. What happened in my case is that a car I happened to not pass early on in the race would gradually pull further and further away, and it'd be completely impossible to make up the distance between us. What was particularly strange about it is that they'd never pull that much further ahead, as it seemed as though the game was just trying to keep a certain distance between the car in front of me and myself. If I messed up to the extent that another car passed me, and I didn't pass it very quickly, then it'd similarly pull ahead, and both of the cars in front of me would have a distance between them roughly equivalent to the distance originally between me and the single car ahead. It was really strange. Admittedly, I've since gotten better at tuning and targeting S1-rank cars with a performance index of 900, so it's possible that having S2-rank cars that were in the mid-900s was part of the problem. Still, the distance between the leading cars was really suspect, as I couldn't pass them at that point, and they wouldn't pull any further ahead as long as I was driving decently.
I wish versus matches had rubberbanding. It'd be better than seeing 1st place pass me from behind.
Forza has two things(and this is just my own theory from years of playing). First thing is that it doesn't calculate physics for AI cars, so they can hit turns and rough terrain much faster than you can. I used this to my advantage by running slicks on lifted supercars for cross country races. The AI would be so fast they would blow right past turns and miss them completely.
The other thing both horizon and Motorsport seems to do is a sort of rubber band zone. Cars will stick with you early, but if you can get far enough ahead, they'll give up and just follow the AI line around the track. Some Motorsport games would then boost one car (remember M.Rossi?) who would then slowly reel you in and overtake you if it was a long enough race. Then it was you battling that car while the pack was half a track behind.
The last thing I notice about Forza, is that the AI hates racing parts. Putting that stuff on your car is an invitation to getting your ass kicked. Racing tires especially. I can overpower the shit out of a Class C by dropping in a V8 and converting it to 4wheel drive and beat the AI easily. Put racing tires on a stock Class C and prepare to watch taillights fade off into the distance.
The other thing both horizon and Motorsport seems to do is a sort of rubber band zone. Cars will stick with you early, but if you can get far enough ahead, they'll give up and just follow the AI line around the track. Some Motorsport games would then boost one car (remember M.Rossi?) who would then slowly reel you in and overtake you if it was a long enough race. Then it was you battling that car while the pack was half a track behind.
The last thing I notice about Forza, is that the AI hates racing parts. Putting that stuff on your car is an invitation to getting your ass kicked. Racing tires especially. I can overpower the shit out of a Class C by dropping in a V8 and converting it to 4wheel drive and beat the AI easily. Put racing tires on a stock Class C and prepare to watch taillights fade off into the distance.
This is some truly bonkers shit.
What was that new Burnoutesque racing game that was out recently, I remember there was a gif when it was in early access of a car rubber banding ahead of you at like 200MPH
I always see complaints but I've never experienced this to be a problem. I remember Paul also stating it in these forums that they only slow cars down but the A.I can't exceed the performance limits of a car as well.
Ace Attorney Trilogy's rubberband AI is definitely bullshit. That motherfucker Edgeworth keeps finding evidence and witnesses and won't let you win easily
Mario Kart 64 was awful at this. Felt terrible the actual strategy was to never actually get in 1st place until the final stretch.
Since it seems we are talking about the OG Super Mario Kart, I agree that the AI on the higher cc circuits cheats like a mofo.
However, the edge I found was that the AI almost always follows a direct preprogrammed line, and used that to my advantage when dropping items. The best outcome is the AI missing a boost or jump and becoming trapped temporarily.
But even then, the cheating was real. And this was before the advent of spiny shells. That in part made it luck rather than skill many times. Luckily one of the highlights of the game was Battle Mode, and maaan was that fun to mess around with.
Need for Speed is horrendous for this as is the Forza Horizon series.
there must be better ways.
there must be better ways.
There is no rubberbanding in CTR. The AI just happens to be relatively skilled on normal. Though it's still easy enough that you can end up haf a lap or more ahead of second place without much struggle once you know the game mechanics.
Are you sure? I admit I might be rusty but I specificly remember that whenever I cut corners like thirty seconds, previously head to head rival magically cuts corner about thirty five seconds. Isn't that rubberbanding?
I'm positive. Here's someone playing the game on hard. Just look at how many mistakes it takes on the player's part for the AI to catch up.
It's annoying when you're in the lead but makes it possible to catch up. People usually don't want to shave off time 0.001 second per corner and restart after a mistake in an arcade racer.