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Dec 11, 2017
4,835
The "technical press" deserves more credit for the ways they have made video games objectively better. You might think of them as the people that allow us to make informed purchasing decisions by determining which version of GTAV has more blades of grass, but time after time their reporting has lead to games looking, running, and playing better.

Let's start by looking at one of the most widely known, Digital Foundry. About 5 years ago, Halo Reach was added to the backwards compatibility program for Xbox One. John Linneman analyzed it in the following video:


Most Xbox 360 games ran the same or slightly better on Xbox One, but by using objective measurements John pointed out that Halo Reach ran significantly worse. If I recall correctly, Microsoft's backwards compatibility testing at the time was little more than having the game running on original hardware on one TV next to another television that had the game running on an Xbox One. The tester would glance back and forth between the two TVs and determine if the game ran "good enough" to release. This feedback from Digital Foundry resulted in Microsoft reevaluating how they tested games and caused them to create their own tools, similar to what Digital Foundry developed internally, to objectively measure performance and ultimately release better performing games.

Another thing I appreciate about the technical press is their ability to articulate aspects of a game's visual presentation that an average video game player like myself can recognize but not express in words eloquently. For example, when Halo Infinite gameplay was shown for the first time many people here were not impressed. People said it "looked bad", "looked last gen", and "looked flat", but none of that feedback is particularly constructive or useful to a game developer. Then Alex Battaglia from Digital Foundry posted this video:


Alex explains in great detail Halo Infinite's the various issues with the quality of its global illumination, ambient occlusion, shadows, volumetric lighting, etcetera that all add up to the game ultimately looking underwhelming. In December, 343 Industries posted a blog explaining the improvements they've been making to the game's graphics and they touch on every single thing Alex brought up. There is no doubt they watched his video and took the feedback to heart.

Something else I appreciate about Digital Foundry in particular is that they often reach out to the developers directly with their findings so they can start looking into problems before the video hits. They talk about this in the recent Gears 5: Hivebusters video.

But I don't want to make this only about Digital Foundry. Smaller outfits like VG Tech do a great job looking at games that Digital Foundry doesn't, such as lower-profile titles, ports for older hardware, patches for GAAS games, and backwards compatible titles.



I want to recognize television reviewers like Rtings.com and HDTVTest. They not only provide optimal picture settings for video games, but they discover issues with TVs and report it directly to the manufacturers so it can be addressed with a patch.



I also want to highlight Adam Fairclough, Restera user EvilBoris, for his amazing analysis of HDR in video games.


Finally I want to give some recognition to everyone that benchmarks PC hardware and keeps manufacturers honest about the actual performance they are delivering.​
 

Paertan

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,391
When input lag started being tested with special equipment and listed for gamers I think it really started to push manufacturers to actually focus on that area. It has improved a lot. LCD:s during the PS3/Xbox 360 era could be horrible when it came to input lag.
 

btags

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,086
Gaithersburg MD
I love all of these guys and really appreciate the work they do. They have certainly helped me make purchase decisions multiple times
 

Tokyo_Funk

Banned
Dec 10, 2018
10,053
Love me some DF Retro. Even more knowing Richard Leadbetter is a part of it. I was always a fan of his stuff in SEGA Saturn Magazine and even more of a fan of his technical analysis videos.
 
Oct 25, 2017
12,319
They all do fantastic work, I can't say much more beyond that. I find the topics incredibly interesting and always look forward to deep-dives from DigitalFoundry.
 

Booshka

Banned
May 8, 2018
3,957
Colton, CA
I feel like the push towards high framerate this generation may likely be due to these channels.

getting clapped nonstop for shitty framerate made hardware and software step up.
 

xir

Member
Oct 27, 2017
12,571
Los Angeles, CA
10000% agree. it's so interesting and good that digital foundry can do what it does with wit without betraying its core mission or being stodgy.
 
Nov 5, 2017
3,478
The "technical press" deserves more credit for the ways they have made video games objectively better. You might think of them as the people that allow us to make informed purchasing decisions by determining which version of GTAV has more blades of grass, but time after time, their reporting has lead to games looking, running, and playing better.

Let's start by looking at one of the most widely known Digital Foundry. About 5 years ago, Halo Reach was added to the backward compatibility program for Xbox One. John Linneman analyzed it in the following video:


Most Xbox 360 games ran the same or slightly better on Xbox One, but by using objective measurements, John pointed out that Halo Reach ran significantly worse. If I recall correctly, Microsoft's backward compatibility testing at the time was little more than having the game running on original hardware on one TV next to another television that had the game running on an Xbox One. The tester would glance back and forth between the two TVs and determine if the game ran "good enough" to release. Digital Foundry's feedback resulted in Microsoft reevaluating how they tested games and caused them to create their own tools, similar to what Digital Foundry developed internally, to measure performance objectively and ultimately release better performing games.

I also appreciate the technical press's ability to articulate aspects of a game's visual presentation that an average video game player like myself can recognize but not express in words eloquently. For example, when Halo Infinite gameplay was shown for the first time, many people were not impressed. People said it "looked bad," "looked last-gen," and "looked flat," but none of that feedback is particularly constructive or useful to a game developer. Then Alex Battaglia from Digital Foundry posted this video:


Alex explains in great detail Halo Infinite's various issues with the quality of its global illumination, ambient occlusion, shadows, volumetric lighting, etcetera that all add up to the game ultimately looking underwhelming. In December, 343 Industries posted a blog explaining the improvements they've been making to the game's graphics, and they touch on every single thing Alex brought up. There is no doubt they watched his video and took the feedback to heart.

Something else I appreciate about Digital Foundry, in particular, is that they often reach out to the developers directly with their findings so they can start looking into problems before the video hits. They talk about this in the recent Gears 5: Hivebusters video.

But I don't want to make this only about Digital Foundry. Smaller outfits like VG Tech do a great job looking at games that Digital Foundry doesn't, such as lower-profile titles, ports for older hardware, patches for GAAS games, and backward compatible titles.



I want to recognize television reviewers like Rtings.com and HDTVTest. They provide optimal picture settings for video games, but they discover issues with TVs and report them directly to the manufacturers to be addressed with a patch.



I also want to highlight Adam Fairclough, Restera user EvilBoris, for his amazing HDR analysis in video games.


Finally, I want to give everyone recognition that benchmarks PC hardware and keeps manufacturers honest about their actual performance.

Where is the like button? I love these deep-dive analysis/think pieces!

Thanks for your thoughts!
 

spam musubi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,380
Totalbiscuit (I know, problematic figure) constantly complaining about FOV sliders got enough attention from devs to make FOV sliders a standard thing in PC ports of games.
 

texhnolyze

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,164
Indonesia
Yeah, absolutely agree, OP.

When you release a sub 30fps game, you'd be roasted by these channels and it might affect your reputation. These videos may lead to better purchasing decisions as well.

But sadly, it also fuels platform wars sometimes, especially between consoles, or consoles with PC at the start of a gen like right now. It's not something that they (DF, etc) can control though.
 

Zalman

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,896
They undoubtedly do amazing work, but unfortunately it often leads to the most toxic discussions so I tend to ignore it.
 

Sho Nuff

Member
Jan 6, 2019
1,387
Kyoto, JP
DF will frequently notice things that devs don't, (or more likely, don't have time to fix in time for ship). Having it called out in a video can let the dev yell at whoever's making the schedules to allocate time for these specific fixes.

Edit: The twitter threads about this shit are pits of rancid toxicity, though, and are best avoided.
 

CloseTalker

Member
Oct 25, 2017
30,631
I do think they've had a positive impact on games. Their impact on gaming discourse on the other hand...
 

T0kenAussie

Member
Jan 15, 2020
5,098
On one hand they make a valuable tool / piece of content.

on the other those tools are regularly used for list wars / framerate wars / resolution wars
 
Oct 25, 2017
6,086
The FGC certainly appreciates the technical individuals and orgs within the community that do insanely in-depth testing on game/controller input delay, netcode performance, frametime analysis, etc that has led to read improvements from manufacturers and devs.
 

gypsyOtoko

Capcom Producer
Verified
Nov 2, 2017
4
It was really thanks to the peeps at Digital Foundry that we were able to figure out how we should handle high frame right switching on DMC5SE for PS5. I'm very thankful to them for the work they do.
 

VZ_Blade

One Winged Slayer
Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
1,338
They do valuable work, and I learned a lot of stuff along the way too, especially for series like DF retro.

Unfortunately a decent amount of the audience that are attracted to such content are shitty people that uses it for console wars and sometimes go as far as to harass the video creators...
 

Alexandros

Member
Oct 26, 2017
17,811
As a PC gamer I would like to single out Alex's work in particular. Everyone on the mentioned channels is doing great work and I'm subscribed to all of them but the kinds of videos that Alex makes are unrivalled in their thoroughness and educational value, not to mention the fun little touches of humor. John is also great when he's in his element, for example in the DF Retro videos which I watch even though I don't care about consoles because they are so well done.
 

Prine

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
15,724
+ Titanfall 2 on XBX, RE2Remake, Dirt 5 XSX.

This is only possible if these outlets hold a level of respect with Devs, and DF seem to be held in high regard. Really appreciate the work they do, and how they don't allow warriors to skew their work, no matter how incendiary the mob try to be. Halo Infinite video is a perfect example of this. Devs are likely to watch videos documenting issues when it's expressed with some decorum, and Alex feedback was reflected in the improvements Halo team are working on! DF is a cut above the rest, thank you!
 
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freikugeln

Member
Oct 27, 2017
337
I feel like the push towards high framerate this generation may likely be due to these channels.

getting clapped nonstop for shitty framerate made hardware and software step up.

Definitely, as well as frame pacing. Having an objective outlet doing some professional substantiated research on these issues that were usually mixed and drowned in general fanboy warring.
 

Pankratous

Member
Oct 26, 2017
9,253
Games might be significantly better but gamers are probably even worse. We have people arguing over extremely minor, completely insignificant details that can't be seen without 1000x zoom between console versions. We have people saying games are "unplayable" if they drop a few frames.

I appreciate Digital Foundry in particular, I'm glad they exist, I enjoy their analysis and I think it has value for all the reasons mentioned in the OP, but my god we have a playerbase full of whiny people that can't just enjoy the medium or the art that developers create if there are minor blemishes.

They are absolutely a net positive though. Especially when one version of a game is genuinely completely ruined, helping people to pick the right one with their purchase.

Nothing breaks my heart more than when a new game is announced with an amazing trailer, with what looks like a captivating story, stunning art, a beautiful soundtrack, and the first post is "60fps?".
 

HellofaMouse

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,168
i dont know, i feel like the videos where they zoom in 16x to see the difference between native 4k and upscaled 4k created an unnecessary resolution obsession.

im sure theyve had some postive impact as well but those 16x zooms are the 1st thing that comes to mind
 

RLCC14

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
2,447
User Warned: Drive-By Posting
All DF has done is fuel even more bullshit console war nonsense.
 

shinbojan

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,101
Games might be significantly better but gamers are probably even worse. We have people arguing over extremely minor, completely insignificant details that can't be seen without 1000x zoom between console versions. We have people saying games are "unplayable" if they drop a few frames.

Those people would argue anyway, at-least now we have objective results instead of subjective opinions.
 
Jun 2, 2019
4,947
Those people would argue anyway, at-least now we have objective results instead of subjective opinions.

Can't say i see that as a positive.

Obsession for pixel count and framerates has brought us ridiculous scenaries like the 59 fps bug on Mario Kart 8, or the recurrent experience on Switch games: Trailer/screenshots/demo/previews release --> People think it looks good --> Digital Foundry releases their analisys --> Shitstorm ensues.
 

ghostcrew

The Shrouded Ghost
Administrator
Oct 27, 2017
30,362
Would also like to highlight how they produce content that is, on the face of it, a super dry subject matter but they manage to present it with a level of charisma, approachability and light heartedness that it's always just fun to watch.

I adore a good, long Alex or John deep dive. You can always feel the passion and their love for the subject is always addictive. Bravo!
 

Tedmilk

Avenger
Nov 13, 2017
1,910
Digital Foundry is fantastic. Plus, the work they've done is helping to raise awareness for the importance of framerate, which is always good in my book.
 

Hyun Sai

Member
Oct 27, 2017
14,562
I really hope all those efforts make 60fps option on console widely generalized and in the long term put 30fps in the museum where it belongs.
 

NeoBob688

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,639
I agree, they deserve props, sorry to them about the negativity they are sometimes subjected to.
 

arsene_P5

Prophet of Regret
Member
Apr 17, 2020
15,438
I really appreciate the likes of Digital Foundry or Boris. They do amazing work and help developers in the meantime with their findings. I usually own all consoles and unless a friend with just one console wants to play a game with me, DF is my go to source to decide, which port to purchase for a console.

Thanks to everyone on the technical channels that spend countless of hours to make their content and analyse games.

It was really thanks to the peeps at Digital Foundry that we were able to figure out how we should handle high frame right switching on DMC5SE for PS5. I'm very thankful to them for the work they do.
I can only imagine from my dev work (website, database, ...) how valuable their feedback must have been. Most of the time in my experience anyway, you get feedback that is less specific. Don't get me wrong, nobody can and should expect that a average consumer knows what DF for example knows, but at the end of the day getting more detailed reports is better than less detailed reports. Of course getting no reports is even worse xD
 

Overflow

Member
Oct 29, 2017
3,156
Wollongong
Would also like to highlight how they produce content that is, on the face of it, a super dry subject matter but they manage to present it with a level of charisma, approachability and light heartedness that it's always just fun to watch.

I adore a good, long Alex or John deep dive. You can always feel the passion and their love for the subject is always addictive. Bravo!
I'd like to echo this; I've watched many DF videos (and NX Gamer) that the game in particular doesn't interest me, but I know it will be great because they've got the passion and the knowledge to make engaging content.
 

Luxorek

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,162
Poland
I agree, OP. It's not just being better informed as a customer, I feel I know much more about what makes games look the way they do since I started watching DF. I find their content genuinely interesting and educational.

All DF has done is fuel even more bullshit console war nonsense.

An extremely simplistic way of looking at what DF has accomplished.
 
Dec 21, 2020
5,066
I agree, OP. It's not just being better informed as a customer, I feel I know much more about what makes games look the way they do since I started watching DF. I find their content genuinely interesting and educational.



An extremely simplistic way of looking at what DF has accomplished.
They are the ones I've noticed more against the console wars tbh, rather than push for it. They just look at the objective facts and inform the viewer of what they are looking at. All-in-all, I appreciate what they have done in bringing more information that gets straight to the point in multiple facets of consoles (Switch, Xbox and PlayStation) and PC space.
 

MechaMarmaset

Member
Nov 20, 2017
3,580
I'm at the point where I only watch the technical review channels now. Regular reviews have proven to be useless for determining if I'll like a game or not, so I don't use them. Technical reviews will at least let me know what sort of performance I can expect out of my hardware and what sort of bugs I should be expecting, and really that's all I need because I'll determine for myself if the game is good or not.
 

DJKippling

Member
Nov 1, 2017
923
definitely made it worse in my opinion. just fuels fanboys. All the good it does is completely undone by the toxicity that arises around it.
 

aisback

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,741
I Love both DF and HDTVTEST.

I love no matter how complex the subject is that the information is given in a way that doesn't dumb it down or make you feel like an idiot for not understanding it.

It makes me appreciate devs a lot more and for that I thank them for opening my eyes
 

Dreamboum

Member
Oct 28, 2017
22,864
I love their content and watch their videos even on games I don't currently have an interest in because it's always fascinating stuff. I also enjoyed seeing how Alex managed to constantly improve as a video maker with an impressive amount of pedagogy going into complex topics. Very cool stuff
 

Launchpad

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,161
It's dumb as shit to put blame anywhere near DF and the like for idiot fanboys who take things far too seriously. DF have done incredible work and they are constantly hounded by these idiots claiming they are bias or whatever the fuck.

I love DF and I mostly watch their stuff for entertainment value than anything else but they provide such a fantastic service to customers and they've effected some significant change in the games industry. Fantastic job.