-
Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
-
We have made minor adjustments to how the search bar works on ResetEra. You can read about the changes here.
Let’s settle this: Did you like The Last Jedi? (Poll)
- Thread starter YolkFolk
- Start date
Can I reinforce this? I live in an area with a lot of black community and black kids, and I'd say the initial reception to Finn from them in the trailers was electric. They were responding to him the way they later did to Black Panther.
After the films though... not nearly as much excitement for Finn. He's just... there... in the second movie. You could honestly tell 99% of the story without him, which is why I think they didn't know what to really do with him in that film so they shuttled him off on a glorified side quest.
I still LIKE Finn. I like him a lot. But they've really wasted such a talented and charming actor. He's got great chemistry with most of the cast that it was a real shame to see him barely with them in last movie, and it became clear there weren't any hidden "bigger plans" for him down the road. He's now just tagging along for the ride.
Yeeah, that sucks. And to be fair his plot in Canto Bight works thematically for me and makes interesting changes in his character (turns him into an actual believer), but not so much as a segment of the movie, so let's hope he gets something better in IX.
This is a perspective I sympathize with, even as a huge fan of the character and the series. Leading up to TFA girls and black boys were sold on the imagery and promise of heroes that look like them. Finally, you too will have strong heroes who look like you that you can fantasize dress up as. They did not deliver on that powerful image, and that's kind of fucked up. I understand why for story purposes, it's a cool reveal at the end of TFA, but it feels unfair.
I do think there is value in the character from a broader perspective, though. Even though Rey is the more central main character, Finn I think plays the role of an audience insert moreso than Rey. He is a more regular guy through whom we learn about the world and experience the story. He is a perspective the audience is forced to follow. He is the one asking questions and growing and deciding who he gets to be. He gets his own sidekick. He's the one experiencing a crush and first kiss.
Now, the actual execution on this latter idea is highly contentious. A lot of people, includings fans of TLJ, just don't care for the Canto Bight adventure and he feels less consequential and important going into this last act. He's a hero, but so are the rest of the resistance fighters. I desperately hope JJ finds something for him that makes it all worth it (and not the metaphorical equivalent to releasing some falthiers). TLJ ostensibly put him on a journey to becoming a true hero worth dressing up as, but it's up to JJ to deliver on that. It would have been really cool for him to get a goddamn lightsaber too, though.
I'm not black so I'm talking purely from what I got from the movie, and not representation, but I thought at least TLJ uses him for something (his visit to the casino changes him into an actual, commited, member of the Resistance) while in TFA he is literally the same when it starts and ends and has no real agency throughout. His whole character is 'scared, though willing to fight because he's smitten with Rey', the whole movie. Sucks that most of it happens apart from the other main characters though.
As you say he definitely deserves way better, Boyega is fantastic. And I thought the TFA promotion was... carefully baity. It's very cool that we get a woman as the main character, but they could've easily avoided getting some hopes up only to disappoint again.
Sort of? Not that I had a huge emotional connection to him, but he was an OG from the OT. At least show him die with some sad John Williams notes playing. Better than them just saying "Welp, Ackbar is gone" and move right on. Hell, they didn't even need the Holdo character at all; just give all that shit to Ackbar.
I thought it was thoroughly mediocre to average. It certainly wasn't good, nor was it particularly offensive. I've seen it once, and while I don't regret seeing it, I also don't have any desire to ever see it again.
Star Wars fans: "Show some originality! Why is everyone related to everyone! Smallest galaxy ever!"
Also Star Wars fans: "Why did they create that new character, Holdo, they should have just reused Ackbar!"
No, it's rancid trash as far as I'm concerned and killed any last sliver of interest for SW. Still not quite as bad as Episode 2 but it was the final blow.
TLJ brought back known characters and shat on them while introducing uninteresting, annoying new ones. So we got the worst of both worlds and more proof that this franchise isn't even running on fumes anymore, everything 'new' they try falls flat on its face and they have no idea how to properly handle the old stuff.
TLJ brought back known characters and shat on them while introducing uninteresting, annoying new ones. So we got the worst of both worlds and more proof that this franchise isn't even running on fumes anymore, everything 'new' they try falls flat on its face and they have no idea how to properly handle the old stuff.
That would certainly have worked better. Or Mon Mothma (where's she disappear to?). And while someone might complain about reusing these characters, they weren't as developed in the OT and there is a thematic reason for it to, which I'll address after THIS...
Star Wars was already the smallest galaxy ever, but when you create a new character - one that is vital to the movie - you can't just debut them with no build-up and expect characters (and the audience) to get on-board.
I had an instructor talk about how in movies we always, as the audience, gravitate towards the comfort of familiarity and actively try and determine who the audience surrogate is. In TLJ scenes on the ship, the audience surrogate is Poe. He is the protagonist of that part of the film, and who is his antagonist? It's Holdo. The audience does NOT KNOW Holdo. She is a new character and the audience surrogate - Poe - does not like her, thus the audience does not like her. Her actions throughout 80% of the film reinforce this negative view of her. It's, of course, revealed that she was not trying to get them all killed and did have a plan, but that doesn't change the fact that 80% of the movie you're with Poe siding against her and hating her, and even if she was proven right, people in general don't like feeling misled or having the wool pulled over their eyes.
Now, replace Holdo with another general we do know. Ackbar. Mon Mothma. Biggs. The change is immediate because the audience DOES know them. They know their history. They know the battles they've fought. They've rooted for them, cheered for them. And now suddenly having one of THEM as the "antagonist" to Poe would make for a far more conflicted audience, because Poe would be the surrogate, while the general's actions - even if they are the SAME actions - are performed with audience being warm to these former legends and heroes and split on whether Poe's actions are warranted or not, instead of being fully with Poe until a late-movie twist.
Even a line or two would have helped. "Holdo fought in the battle of Jakku. I watched her single-handily save a whole fleet with her calm and focused command." Etc, etc. But we don't get that scene, we don't get any hero of the past vouch for her either.
So, as my professor put it, your audience surrogate and your protagonist winds up the accidental villain of his story in contrast to a character painted by the narrative to be wrong the majority of the time until a last-minute swerve. And then he's rewarded with their complete trust and head of command anyway by the end, making the karma not even balance itself out. He had no moment of redemption so his narrative journey is to feel he's the hero, get us on his side, find out his entire journey was misguided, put his friends in danger and get many killed, and is ultimately rewarded for his efforts. That entire arc is difficult to emotionally navigate.
Long rant, having a familiar, heroic face to be the "antagonist" of his story WOULD have worked better because the audience would be more fair and balanced in navigating these emotions and not feeling like their emotional journey through the story has to pause constantly to tell them (the audience) that their emotional state was wrong.
Last edited:
I thought it was ok not great. The pacing is pretty bad and I'm not excited with the way they handled Luke.
As a Star Wars film, no.
As a piece of Hollywood sci-fi filler, sure. It's got some beautiful scenes and it's budget shows.
As a piece of Hollywood sci-fi filler, sure. It's got some beautiful scenes and it's budget shows.
i liked it, the movie clearly has some serious issues though, but nothing that another script pass couldnt fix... and that's one of the most frustrating things about the movie
Same. The results of the poll are perplexing. Did people like it because it looked good? It was overstuffed and unexciting. There were so many times where my reaction was, "Why?" or "How?" and never in a good way. The plot, character choices, and twists are so forced that the illusion of the story melts away and you can see the people behind the scenes frantically trying to make it all work.
Last edited:
This was me, after TFA I was annoyed how much of it was a retread of a new hope, but after TLJ I realized a mediocre retread is the best they can do.
He was basically the 2nd-third most important character in FA
I just watched the last trailer. And he's just in the background for most of the scenes.
Lupita is a fucking Oscar winner and she's also got next to nothing.
Just baffling.
No, Dooku was Yoda's apprentice. His fall to the dark side began with questioning and his obsession with the prophecies, but ended with Yoda leaving to be a cynical old hermit.
And there was a good deal of dialogue between Yoda and Kenobi's ghost about Luke being ready or able to complete the training.
Loved it. Overall, it's probably the second or third best film in the series.
And Rian Johnson is easily the best director to have made a Star Wars film.
And Rian Johnson is easily the best director to have made a Star Wars film.
Glad to have voted Yes and contributed to putting this matter to bed once and for all...
Tbf it actually took a rewatch at home for me to appreciate this movie after being a bit disappointed on first watch at the cinema. But it is a genuinely good movie and an excellent Star Wars entry.
Tbf it actually took a rewatch at home for me to appreciate this movie after being a bit disappointed on first watch at the cinema. But it is a genuinely good movie and an excellent Star Wars entry.
Other than Rose's character and her romance plot line or whatever the hell that was (the hate that poor actress who played her got was ridiculous!), and some minor-ish plot holes similar to other holes in the rest of the series, I really enjoyed it. Rian got weird with it. Looking forward to what comes out of his own trilogy.
Loved it as well but then again I hated pretty much all of the old EU stuff except for Thrawn, Jedi Academy, and Dark Empire all of which should have been made into films or series back in the 90's when the OT actors weren't my boomer parents current age. People conveniently ignore that fact all the time when they argue about Luke's ark and it's stupid.
I liked the Jedi stuff, with Rey and Kylo and Luke and the stand-off on the salt planet. Shit was cool. Daisy and Adam were great in their roles and characters.
everything else was hot garbage. Phasma was a disappointment and a waste. Rose high speed ramming into Finn at high speeds "saving what we love" was lame as fuck. Especially when Holdo just sacrificed herself to save the day moments before. The entire B side story just sucked. It wasn't even good Star Wars. The casino planet was like a shitty episode of Dr Who with no solid resolution as far as I remember. Like. Man. The Jedi side was Star Wars as hell, but the B plot is so dull and accomplished so little in terms of plot that it brought down the rest of the movie with it. Unfortunate. Rose deserved better, Finn deserved better, Po deserved better.
everything else was hot garbage. Phasma was a disappointment and a waste. Rose high speed ramming into Finn at high speeds "saving what we love" was lame as fuck. Especially when Holdo just sacrificed herself to save the day moments before. The entire B side story just sucked. It wasn't even good Star Wars. The casino planet was like a shitty episode of Dr Who with no solid resolution as far as I remember. Like. Man. The Jedi side was Star Wars as hell, but the B plot is so dull and accomplished so little in terms of plot that it brought down the rest of the movie with it. Unfortunate. Rose deserved better, Finn deserved better, Po deserved better.
But the RT score isn't supposed to be a quality gradient.
I actually think at 62.5% "Fresh" for this forum seems closer to what I viewed as an actual consensus for the film than what the 91% for critics and 44% for the review bombed audience score seemed to paint it as.
Although, if we did actual review scores, I'm sure it would still fall in the 6-7 average range.
It is closer but taking everyone into account(Era's concentration is definitely more of the type who love to speculate and are disappointed when their speculation is wrong) the true RT for the audience would have been in the 75-85% range
Maybe the poll should have also included both options (yes/no) with the question if one considers oneself a general Star Wars fan or not.
Cause one of the most dismissive arguments against people who dislike TLJ is that they are too nostalgic about the original movies to accept something new etc.
But I'm not a big SW fan. I watched the OT exactly once. I grew up on the prequels which I sort of liked as a kid but came to dislike them a lot later on.
I kind of liked TFA. Probably because I have not watched the OT more than once and was not annoyed by repetition.
But I honestly think that TLJ just isn't a good movie. Not because of 'muh Star Wars'. I liked the parts about Luke, Rey and Kylo, although not everything was perfect with them either. But the plotlines including Finn/Rose and Poe/Holdo are so damn BORING and nonsensical at times.
Cause one of the most dismissive arguments against people who dislike TLJ is that they are too nostalgic about the original movies to accept something new etc.
But I'm not a big SW fan. I watched the OT exactly once. I grew up on the prequels which I sort of liked as a kid but came to dislike them a lot later on.
I kind of liked TFA. Probably because I have not watched the OT more than once and was not annoyed by repetition.
But I honestly think that TLJ just isn't a good movie. Not because of 'muh Star Wars'. I liked the parts about Luke, Rey and Kylo, although not everything was perfect with them either. But the plotlines including Finn/Rose and Poe/Holdo are so damn BORING and nonsensical at times.
The thread is probably a bit too deep for this to matter at all but I wasn't a fan of TLJ. I left completely unexcited for the future of Star Wars and Solo drove that point home. It's possible, albeit unlikely, Rise of Skywalker changes this but, outside of Mandalorian, my excitement should probably go on ice until one of the announced separate trilogies gets started.
I do not like it. I am not in that Star Wars is ruined corner, but there are just so many things in that movie which feel pointless & just boring. The role plot around Rose and Finn, that spaceship hunt, killing of Snoke and that stupid fight on the salt planet it feels so cheap. For most of the movie I did not care about anything, I did not care about the characters, except a little bit about Rey and Kylo. I tried watching it a second time, but I could not do it, I needed to stop at some point. That opening sequence, the humor ... it feels like a parody. A part of the problem is also TFA, which is not that boring, but in terms of creditibility within the Star Wars universe, it feels like such a huge chance of wasted potential. The films look great, the actors are great, the dialogue is not awul, but everything else is just not giving me anything new or exciting as a Star Wars fan.
At least we no longer need "Is TLJ actually, actually a divisive movie?"-threads and (hopefully) no longer posters claiming only bigots can ever dislike the movie.
Who am I kidding, none of that will go away. In fact, I'm sure the usuals believe the 38-ish percent are all bigots, even here on era.
Who am I kidding, none of that will go away. In fact, I'm sure the usuals believe the 38-ish percent are all bigots, even here on era.
Normally I don't care what others like or dislike. I mean, it literally has no effect on me. Live and let live. But yikes. Oh boy...I mean...Jesus Christ. It's obviously just a movie. It's not a big deal. But still. Goddamn. It was a really bad movie. Some cool effects and cinematography at some moments, that is all i can say that is positive.
Anyway. I don't know you and have nothing against you, obviously. But I am amazed that anyone actually likes it, and even more so at anyone claiming that it's their favorite of all of them. Wow...I guess I'm from another universe or some shit, lol
Edit
Dp, ooops
Probably the Star Wars film I enjoyed the most, or at least as much as Empire Strikes Back. Doesnt mean much though, as I'm not really a Star Wars fan.
Seen them all and am old enough that I enjoyed the Ewok movies when they were new, and went to the theatrical rereleases in the 90s, but never really cared that much for Star Wars. Thought the Leia death and 'save' was dumb, but other than that found it at least interesting. Still has problems, but could have been a worse 2.5 hours.
Seen them all and am old enough that I enjoyed the Ewok movies when they were new, and went to the theatrical rereleases in the 90s, but never really cared that much for Star Wars. Thought the Leia death and 'save' was dumb, but other than that found it at least interesting. Still has problems, but could have been a worse 2.5 hours.
I loved it way more than TFA and Rogue One. I'm way more excited for Johnson's trilogy than ep9
I was a bit disappointed the first time (mainly the lightsabre toss being really lame, the humor, Rey being a nobody, and Luke shoulda done more/shouldn't have died) but still liked it anyway.
There were aspects I loved and hated.
Enjoyed it more on multiple viewings but still hate certain parts.
I love it but am well aware of and critical of its flaws.
There were aspects I loved and hated.
Enjoyed it more on multiple viewings but still hate certain parts.
I love it but am well aware of and critical of its flaws.
If by "good" you mean "representative of the population" (where in this case the population is active ResetEra members) the answer is:
A self-selecting poll can never be considered representative of a population, unless it polls every member of that population. Unless a population sample is random and representative, it cannot be extrapolated to the larger population.
This is very much not a focus group. This is 4,000 people who decided to share an opinion.
