At this point I'd rather them to openly say that this is how it's going to be and people can deal with it. Otherwise it's just annoying to see them to say one thing and do another
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At this point I'd rather them to openly say that this is how it's going to be and people can deal with it. Otherwise it's just annoying to see them to say one thing and do another
That's crazy but if they can make a few key changes in the middle then that can tide us over.
Also it seems the Fizz Nami BC Elusive deck isn't that good. Basically kinda sucks if you don't draw Nami and the deck actually doesn't have many ways of protecting Nami. Maybe the answer is to go outside Bandle City like Ionia.
That's a big change for Viego if I'm reading this correctly.
Also damn no Gnar yet. :/ Have to wait for next part.
Don't really agree with the balance change panic (not necessarily just here). Strong things can exist without the NEED to balance them. They did say they're open to making adjustments, and they would communicate the new strategy borne out of interacting with the community last time. Reads like generally good news to me. I do think they'll come around on making Merciless give instead of grant once they see a lot of these new champs shut down by her, but I don't really need a promise that it'll happen.
Is it panic, or just disappointment that same bully decks might remain the most powerful. I also really dislike seeing Lee on stream, I hope the meta shifts for the global tournament.
• I saw Xerath, landmarks, Ziggs, got happy because this shit might be fun.
• Read patch notes, remembered how I got happy to see Malphite/Landmarks in the game, and it didn't work out, the Irelia/Azir ladder horror.
It is ok if you don't want to nerf Eye/Lee/Akshan/Hunter/Shape Stone, but then give some buffs? Victor? Trolls? Staircase?
Poppy emote is good, I hope it is free. Other two meh. No lizard pet :(
Skins are also MIA in the notes, I hope there are some.
• I saw Xerath, landmarks, Ziggs, got happy because this shit might be fun.
• Read patch notes, remembered how I got happy to see Malphite/Landmarks in the game, and it didn't work out, the Irelia/Azir ladder horror.
It is ok if you don't want to nerf Eye/Lee/Akshan/Hunter/Shape Stone, but then give some buffs? Victor? Trolls? Staircase?
Poppy emote is good, I hope it is free. Other two meh. No lizard pet :(
Skins are also MIA in the notes, I hope there are some.
Can't say I'm vibing Ziggs at all, still can't see a place to play Xerath with other landmark champs around
I think the meta will change, you'll be seeing more discard at the top at the very least, probably spells too
I think the meta will change, you'll be seeing more discard at the top at the very least, probably spells too
I see a logic, the theoretical use for Xerath.
It is a champion that starts to damage opponents board just by using landmarks. Giving landmarks more time to grow and out-value the opponent.
But he is also a 3-health unit that cannot defending himself, doesn't even do anything until like turn-5, and is in the color that is weak protecting/healing. The speed and value are just bad, Zilean is a 2-mana 1/4 predict unit. The only thing Xerath has going is the ability to flip him on 4-5th turn, easy level-up.
So... I gotta agree, Xerath is not worthy of the champion slot, but I will still try playing all champs in Expedition once or twice.
It is a champion that starts to damage opponents board just by using landmarks. Giving landmarks more time to grow and out-value the opponent.
But he is also a 3-health unit that cannot defending himself, doesn't even do anything until like turn-5, and is in the color that is weak protecting/healing. The speed and value are just bad, Zilean is a 2-mana 1/4 predict unit. The only thing Xerath has going is the ability to flip him on 4-5th turn, easy level-up.
So... I gotta agree, Xerath is not worthy of the champion slot, but I will still try playing all champs in Expedition once or twice.
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I'm just kinda confused as to why they said that the next balance patch is 8 weeks out from now. They've generally always done balance patches the 2nd patch after a set comes out, and 4 weeks is actually the Wednesday after Worlds. I guess maybe they're going to use Worlds results for their patch, but I don't know why you'd do that because the competitive format has very little impact on ladder which is what 99% of people play.
I can understand why they might not have wanted to make significant changes for this patch because it's a massive influx of new cards (I really think Twin Disciplines and Shaped Stone needed nerfs but I don't think Ruin Runner and Merciless Hunter being untouched is the end of the world) but why are they waiting an even longer than usual time to change the game. Assuming there aren't any emergency nerfs that means the game will have gone 14 weeks with no card changes. It just seems really confusing that the Underlords balance changes were universally well-received and got incredibly massive community feedback, then they'd immediately do the exact opposite and release a new set with no card changes and double the time in between balance patches. Even if the meta is insanely good and BC somehow pushes out all the combat combo decks running around currently, people are going to get bored of a meta if it's gone on for 8 weeks with no new cards or changes. If that does happen, the format is probably going to be less balanced, and if it doesn't happen then people are going to have another 8 weeks of the same obviously overtuned Shurima and Ionia decks.
I just REALLY don't get it.
I can understand why they might not have wanted to make significant changes for this patch because it's a massive influx of new cards (I really think Twin Disciplines and Shaped Stone needed nerfs but I don't think Ruin Runner and Merciless Hunter being untouched is the end of the world) but why are they waiting an even longer than usual time to change the game. Assuming there aren't any emergency nerfs that means the game will have gone 14 weeks with no card changes. It just seems really confusing that the Underlords balance changes were universally well-received and got incredibly massive community feedback, then they'd immediately do the exact opposite and release a new set with no card changes and double the time in between balance patches. Even if the meta is insanely good and BC somehow pushes out all the combat combo decks running around currently, people are going to get bored of a meta if it's gone on for 8 weeks with no new cards or changes. If that does happen, the format is probably going to be less balanced, and if it doesn't happen then people are going to have another 8 weeks of the same obviously overtuned Shurima and Ionia decks.
I just REALLY don't get it.
lol Swim on stream making a Ziggs deck and Xerath not making the cut, Sivir in there currently instead lol
Yeah I don't get the 8 weeks wait for balance patch. I get not changing before Worlds but they can easily change after. It's going to feel like TF Go Hard meta all over again, which lead to players feeling unhappy for quite a while.
And a lot of these new cards won't really change the meta much. There will be some new decks and stronger existing decks like Discard but the power level of the previous strongest decks will remain and they will stifle the more experimental decks, more than usual. Expect the meta to speed up. All BC got was a bunch of ping spells with weak mid sized removals, all BC decks gonna struggle removing Sivir/Ruined Runner. Oh and Merciless Hunter is still going to solo kill all the Champs, Lulu Zed will still rush you down and Azir Irelia is still going to be play patterning all over everyone.
And a lot of these new cards won't really change the meta much. There will be some new decks and stronger existing decks like Discard but the power level of the previous strongest decks will remain and they will stifle the more experimental decks, more than usual. Expect the meta to speed up. All BC got was a bunch of ping spells with weak mid sized removals, all BC decks gonna struggle removing Sivir/Ruined Runner. Oh and Merciless Hunter is still going to solo kill all the Champs, Lulu Zed will still rush you down and Azir Irelia is still going to be play patterning all over everyone.
Dovagedys is in Swim's chat answering questions, regarding the huge wait for a balance patch he's basically doing his usual playing dumb schtick, and says the meta is fine (which could be true but is still kind of avoiding the question of why the wait is so long).
I think the current meta is diverse and very healthy. I also think the power level of the new cards releasing tomorrow will shake up the meta.
Shyvana Dragons more fun
Lurk probably get you more wins at the moment though
Soraka ,tahm kench was the third deck I was thinking about crafting since I opened 2 soraka and a kench randomly.
Any thoughts on that deck? I appreciate all the help.
Any thoughts on that deck? I appreciate all the help.
It's always been pretty solid. It's getting another heal tool in Ebb and Flow so worth a shot! It may go decently into discard aggro too, which seems to be probably strong.
Soraka/Tahm's flavour and the actual play style of the deck go hand in hand making it a ton of fun to play. Fully recommend this deck. It's good and I think it'll perform well against agro.
I'm making a Draven/Sion deck tomorrow for sure. That's my number 1 priority. I'm pumped. Then it's either going to be Fizz/Nami or Caitlin/Teemo...though a Tristana/Poppy deck also sounds like a ton of fun...I was also looking into Aphelios/Nami. Could be fun!
At high levels Lurk, in general Dragons.
TK Soraka one of my favorite decks easy. It plays for a completely different game plan so it's fun to mix things up. Main problem is slow games.
Koreans have the exhibition pre-release tournamnet and NA/EU streamers just play random games.
I would like to watch which streamer builds the best new deck before any trends/matchups even emerge. Mogwai and Panda would be the casters. Hurray streamers, go esports!
I would like to watch which streamer builds the best new deck before any trends/matchups even emerge. Mogwai and Panda would be the casters. Hurray streamers, go esports!
Crafted a Lurk deck it's very fun so far. Missing lurks at key moments is going to tilt me off the planet I can already tell.
Doing well with it although I'm way down in Silver.
Doing well with it although I'm way down in Silver.
5 surprises for me from the pre-release streams:
*Bandle Tree deck being better than initially suspected.
*Nami Fizz BC being worse than initial impressions.
*How easy it is to level Sion in the new Discard deck. (And generally how strong this deck is, like I knew it was good but its actually damn good)
*How powerful Corina Mastermind is in a trap deck.
*How powerful the Mayor Bandld City card is in a multi region deck.
Oh and Waste Walker being a nutty card but that was expected.
*Bandle Tree deck being better than initially suspected.
*Nami Fizz BC being worse than initial impressions.
*How easy it is to level Sion in the new Discard deck. (And generally how strong this deck is, like I knew it was good but its actually damn good)
*How powerful Corina Mastermind is in a trap deck.
*How powerful the Mayor Bandld City card is in a multi region deck.
Oh and Waste Walker being a nutty card but that was expected.
Corina in a trap deck always looked like a very strong option to me, idk. Puffcaps and Caitlyn are gonna be good.
Also the 3 mana give +4/+2 when destroying a landmark is actually insanely strong because it's a burst speed landmark destruction and you can do stuff like summon a unit at burst speed (from Landmarks) or stun a unit with the 1 mana stun landmark. I think people are underrating it.
I think I'm gonna try out Caitlyn/Teemo trap deck first. Then either a Poppy deck or Nami/Fizz. Or I'll just go into expeditions and see what they give me.
• Yep, no skins this patch. Bizzare
• Splash-art for the main menu is very nice
• Further rewards tracks for most factions with new champions
• Poppy emote is free!
Skipping any balance changes remains a weird decision, something that I don't agree with at all.
• Splash-art for the main menu is very nice
• Further rewards tracks for most factions with new champions
• Poppy emote is free!
Skipping any balance changes remains a weird decision, something that I don't agree with at all.
nope, and I wouldn't count on it coming any time soon. The region system is a core part of the game.
The kind of RNG Marai Greatmother brings to the game can fuck off. I just got 3 mana Ruinated and that's barely scratching the surface of how obnoxious that card can get.
You get 1 draft per week and after 3 (I think?) drafts the rest are free for that week. So you can't quite just play free drafts, but it doesn't take all that much constructed to get there.
Maybe but Senna/Ezrael Go Hard is a very powerful control deck that will be preying on the aggro decks. I think it's still going to be dominated by Akshan/Sivir Demacia and Azir Irelia type decks.
There are powerful tools added for slower decks in general and there are more pings for spell shield units and more elusive units in general against elusive decks.
Also it's been like 3 hours into the new expansion people trying jank decks that will lose to existing top tier decks + aggro decks. Going to take a week to figure out the newer good stuff. Like I am looking at stuff like Zoe + Nami (or Aphelios) Targon and there is potential all around.
Yup, I will be working a Nami/Aphelios deck. Seems very fun. Draven/Sion is fun as expected but I need to tune it better.
Thought's on this deck (Nami/Aphelios): CEBQCAQGCQBQGCJIGDMQCAIFAYCQGAYDBFEVZWABAMBAMDQTEYCQKBQBAIDAUCYCAIBQSBO3AEAQEBRK
Focuses on Low cost/Low damage units that produce spells.
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Mono Shurima Sun Disk decks have always kind of been a meme, but Xerath actually does actually make the deck 'work' in a way it hasn't before.
Watched a streamer using a Poppy + Soraka deck and honestly, it seemed amazing. A *ton* of protection for Poppy, your sparkle flies counter elusive strategies well, it has a good suite of Demacia combat tricks, the healing makes your units almost immortal, and it has Star Spring as an alt win con. Seems to lose to hard removal decks, but was facing off against most other decks really capably.
Watched a streamer using a Poppy + Soraka deck and honestly, it seemed amazing. A *ton* of protection for Poppy, your sparkle flies counter elusive strategies well, it has a good suite of Demacia combat tricks, the healing makes your units almost immortal, and it has Star Spring as an alt win con. Seems to lose to hard removal decks, but was facing off against most other decks really capably.
Xerath Mono Shurima almost works because you can actually reliably flip Xerath in that deck, problem is the 2nd champion.
Mono Xerath by himself isn't good enough IMO, you need either Renekton or Azir to close games. Preferably Renekton since he actually finishes the game the turn he levels where as Azir is more over time and not as good.
If I can just jam 3 Rock Hoppers, 3 Merciless Hunters, a few Ruthless Predators, Quick Sands... then the rest of the deck be Landmarks stuff, it could almost work.
Mono Xerath by himself isn't good enough IMO, you need either Renekton or Azir to close games. Preferably Renekton since he actually finishes the game the turn he levels where as Azir is more over time and not as good.
If I can just jam 3 Rock Hoppers, 3 Merciless Hunters, a few Ruthless Predators, Quick Sands... then the rest of the deck be Landmarks stuff, it could almost work.
There was a Brazilian open tourney with 108 entrants today, I think there was a rule in place that you had to play reasonably new decks so obviously take these results with a MASSIVE grain of salt. But this might give some ideas for which of the new archetypes might end up panning out. Here's a breakdown of the decks that made top cut:
Draven Sion Discard Midrange 6 (CEBQCAIDCQCACBABEYTS2BYFAMAQGBAFAYEQ2AQBAMCBEAIEAQIAA)
Fizz Nami Go Fish 3 (CICQCAIEAEAQGBQRAICQMBINAMBAMJRLFYCAGBAFBUJBSAQBAUDAWAQBAQTTIAIBAUCBI)
Teemo Cait Foundry 3 (CEDACAQEBIAQGAICAEBQIFACAEAQIHQCAUCAMCIDAECAQGJUAMAQCAIBAECQIDQCAECBWOQCAECACCQBAUCA2)
Senna TF Go Hard 2 (CICQCAYGBAAQKBQBAECQKCICAMCQMEADAIDB2JR2AQAQIBQKAECQMAQCAECRGMICAIDASGQCAECQKDQDAECQ6IJV)
Akshan Sivir + BC 2 (CQBAEBIKDKIQCCAEA4KCMNRXLVTYEAMKAEAQIBIKQEA2MANZAHIQCAICAQDW3AAB)
Trist Poppy Lulu Bandle Tree 1 (CQAQOBIKDITSU5EFAGXQDQQBAEEQKCQBAQUWA34MAGMADJYBYAAQCAIDAIBA)
Ziggs Xerath Shurima+BC 1 (CQBQGBAHBUSVSAYFA4DQWDQFAUFBUG2JUMA4AAIDAECAOTABAUFNIAIBAUDRIAIBAUFAM)
Fizz Nami + BC 1 (CQBQEBIGAUFQGAQGBYTC4BYFBICAKDI2FAYTEAQBAUFACAIFAYGQA)
Ez Senna control 1 (CEDQCAIFFAAQGBIQAECAKOABAUCAYAQBAQSDIAQFAUBQSAYEAQBAODABAIAQIGY7AMAQGBICAECAKAYBAUCQ4)
Ziggs Taliyah + Targon 1 (CQCACBIKUMAQEBAJAQCQGBIHAIDQWBAEA4GSMSKZAMAQICIHAECQOEIDAQDRYJK5AA)
Cait Senna control 1 (CECQCAYECEAQGBIQAICQKCIPAMCAIAQHBQBQKBAGBEGAIAIBAUUACAYECQAQKBANAIAQIGZUAA)
Poppy+Fizz go wide Allegiance 1 (CQBQCAIDG4AQEBROBICQUGRJOSMADIABV4A3QAOAAHBADUIBAEBAKCQBE4AA)
Nami+BC elusives 1 (CQBQCAYGCEBQKBQFBMGQQBIKAQCRUKBRGKTADUIBAIAQKCQBAECQMBAA)
The winner was Iannogueria running Fizz Nami Go Fish, Discard midrange, and 3 Senna, 2 TF, 1 Elise Go Hard. SadCowboy got 2nd with Discard Midrange, Cait Teemo Foundry, and Akshan Sivir BC. Again, MASSIVE grain of salt with these results as they are taking place in an unfocused and largely open meta. Good players can potentially carry medicore decks to success in the short-term especially when everyone else is also likely running mediocre lists. Also completely absent was any previously established decks, so it's hard to know how these decks match up vs the previously established meta from these results.
The biggest deck by a landslide was Discard Midrange, while the deck was a pretty obvious one and was probably pretty common, it does seem like it wasn't holding the players back at least and it did fairly well overall. 5 total Nami decks showed up too, 3 with P&Z Fizz, 1 with BC Fizz, and 1 BC without Fizz. While Nami is definitely vulnerable to removal, at the very least she is pretty powerful when on board with a handful of spells and some Elusives to put the buffs on. At the very least the deck might be a bit more vulnerable to removal than other Elusive spam decks because there's no protective spells or Spell Shield. There were quite a few Senna decks too, the Go Hard version that won seems pretty promising, but none that were able to combine her effectively with Veigar.
Draven Sion Discard Midrange 6 (CEBQCAIDCQCACBABEYTS2BYFAMAQGBAFAYEQ2AQBAMCBEAIEAQIAA)
Fizz Nami Go Fish 3 (CICQCAIEAEAQGBQRAICQMBINAMBAMJRLFYCAGBAFBUJBSAQBAUDAWAQBAQTTIAIBAUCBI)
Teemo Cait Foundry 3 (CEDACAQEBIAQGAICAEBQIFACAEAQIHQCAUCAMCIDAECAQGJUAMAQCAIBAECQIDQCAECBWOQCAECACCQBAUCA2)
Senna TF Go Hard 2 (CICQCAYGBAAQKBQBAECQKCICAMCQMEADAIDB2JR2AQAQIBQKAECQMAQCAECRGMICAIDASGQCAECQKDQDAECQ6IJV)
Akshan Sivir + BC 2 (CQBAEBIKDKIQCCAEA4KCMNRXLVTYEAMKAEAQIBIKQEA2MANZAHIQCAICAQDW3AAB)
Trist Poppy Lulu Bandle Tree 1 (CQAQOBIKDITSU5EFAGXQDQQBAEEQKCQBAQUWA34MAGMADJYBYAAQCAIDAIBA)
Ziggs Xerath Shurima+BC 1 (CQBQGBAHBUSVSAYFA4DQWDQFAUFBUG2JUMA4AAIDAECAOTABAUFNIAIBAUDRIAIBAUFAM)
Fizz Nami + BC 1 (CQBQEBIGAUFQGAQGBYTC4BYFBICAKDI2FAYTEAQBAUFACAIFAYGQA)
Ez Senna control 1 (CEDQCAIFFAAQGBIQAECAKOABAUCAYAQBAQSDIAQFAUBQSAYEAQBAODABAIAQIGY7AMAQGBICAECAKAYBAUCQ4)
Ziggs Taliyah + Targon 1 (CQCACBIKUMAQEBAJAQCQGBIHAIDQWBAEA4GSMSKZAMAQICIHAECQOEIDAQDRYJK5AA)
Cait Senna control 1 (CECQCAYECEAQGBIQAICQKCIPAMCAIAQHBQBQKBAGBEGAIAIBAUUACAYECQAQKBANAIAQIGZUAA)
Poppy+Fizz go wide Allegiance 1 (CQBQCAIDG4AQEBROBICQUGRJOSMADIABV4A3QAOAAHBADUIBAEBAKCQBE4AA)
Nami+BC elusives 1 (CQBQCAYGCEBQKBQFBMGQQBIKAQCRUKBRGKTADUIBAIAQKCQBAECQMBAA)
The winner was Iannogueria running Fizz Nami Go Fish, Discard midrange, and 3 Senna, 2 TF, 1 Elise Go Hard. SadCowboy got 2nd with Discard Midrange, Cait Teemo Foundry, and Akshan Sivir BC. Again, MASSIVE grain of salt with these results as they are taking place in an unfocused and largely open meta. Good players can potentially carry medicore decks to success in the short-term especially when everyone else is also likely running mediocre lists. Also completely absent was any previously established decks, so it's hard to know how these decks match up vs the previously established meta from these results.
The biggest deck by a landslide was Discard Midrange, while the deck was a pretty obvious one and was probably pretty common, it does seem like it wasn't holding the players back at least and it did fairly well overall. 5 total Nami decks showed up too, 3 with P&Z Fizz, 1 with BC Fizz, and 1 BC without Fizz. While Nami is definitely vulnerable to removal, at the very least she is pretty powerful when on board with a handful of spells and some Elusives to put the buffs on. At the very least the deck might be a bit more vulnerable to removal than other Elusive spam decks because there's no protective spells or Spell Shield. There were quite a few Senna decks too, the Go Hard version that won seems pretty promising, but none that were able to combine her effectively with Veigar.
I played a bunch of games with Darkness Control and while I won quite a bit with rank ups, you really need to draw well to get your Darkness going. Veigar is very powerful but very vulnerable to removal for a deck win condition. And unlike Go Hard version, Senna isn't a win condition by herself usually.
I almost think Veigar Karma Ionia might be better simply because there are more tools to protect him. Having Veigar stick on the board for a few turns can be devastating and flipped Veigar is legit one of the most powerful champions in the game.
Also the 4 mana Landmark for SI is actually not bad. It's like a Darkness generator.
I almost think Veigar Karma Ionia might be better simply because there are more tools to protect him. Having Veigar stick on the board for a few turns can be devastating and flipped Veigar is legit one of the most powerful champions in the game.
Also the 4 mana Landmark for SI is actually not bad. It's like a Darkness generator.
the prank that makes a card cost +2 mana is a bit busted.
cat/teemo is fun but Corina, Mastermind carries the deck
cat/teemo is fun but Corina, Mastermind carries the deck
How are you even supposed to deal with Sion without the Recall/Polymorph effects? Here, survive a 10 attack Overwhelm and then another one with Rally on top of it
I don't know what is it about this expansion but it makes me extra salty so early after release, never felt like this with previous strong stuff. Maybe it's the dread that comes with realization that this time the strong stuff will stick for two months
I don't know what is it about this expansion but it makes me extra salty so early after release, never felt like this with previous strong stuff. Maybe it's the dread that comes with realization that this time the strong stuff will stick for two months
as usual I end up being very busy on expansion launch day, it's always the worst for me
.......so Sion is good huh? who saw that coming
e: also Teemo and Fizz not having old artwork as skins is kinda bullshit. I'm cool with Teemo keeping his level up animation, I think it's funny that it's so lowkey
e2: I bought the season pass without looking at any of the rewards. I don't think I want any of this but oh well, it's not bad, just not my aesthetic. maybe I'll use it for Teemo decks
.......so Sion is good huh? who saw that coming
e: also Teemo and Fizz not having old artwork as skins is kinda bullshit. I'm cool with Teemo keeping his level up animation, I think it's funny that it's so lowkey
e2: I bought the season pass without looking at any of the rewards. I don't think I want any of this but oh well, it's not bad, just not my aesthetic. maybe I'll use it for Teemo decks
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Hush and comet comes to mind if you're running targon and invokes.
The "Random Landmark" cards are just bad.
I am getting stuff like Frozen Thralls or Lurk landmarks. Something that is useless, and a complete destroy fodder. Maybe it should be capped to the region that I play, it is not like landmarks are even good...
Overall just getting fucked by Darkness in expeditions. It is way too easy to get it...
I am getting stuff like Frozen Thralls or Lurk landmarks. Something that is useless, and a complete destroy fodder. Maybe it should be capped to the region that I play, it is not like landmarks are even good...
Overall just getting fucked by Darkness in expeditions. It is way too easy to get it...
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