Legends of Runeterra |OT| Yay! Now I Can Bat Around the Bodies!

[Sylvee]

As someone that watched all of the seasonals besides EU, NA kinda saved the weekend in terms of diversity. NA was the only region that didn't have Azir Irelia in the top lineup, and I think 2 of the 4 regional grand finals were two players who both brought it. The end results for winners were:

Korea/JP Sidaro: Zoe Lee
Ez Draven
Azir Irelia

SEA Kienxun: Overwhelm
Ez Draven
Azir Irelia:

EU Tomasow: Thresh Nasus
Azir Irelia
1 Zoe 2 ASOL Dragons

NA: TF Fizz
Championless Cithria
Ez Teemo Foundry


It's worth mentioning that the people who brought Azir Irelia seemed to be drawing very well all day which didn't help at all. EU grands 2nd place brought triple aggro and lost to Azir Irelia instantly, Jacowaco who got 2nd place in NA beat triple aggro with two matchups that are both super bad into aggro. (Overwhelm as well as Azir Irelia) Seriously, the guy who lost to Jacowaco queued into the absolute best matchup he could have possibly gotten and lost anyway.


The first big takeaway I had was that TLC and Deep colossally underperformed. Not only did TLC and Deep not win a region, none even got into grand finals and I only saw one TLC and no Deep in the semifinals. Unsurprisingly people were totally ready to beat up TLC and as such it got completely eviscerated.

The second is that Azir Irelia is pretty damn good lol. A ton of its ubiquity came from the fact that it had insanely good matchups against a TON of the really good meta and anti-meta options. TLC, Overwhelm, Deep, and Thralls have close to unwinnable matchups against the deck, and the overwhelming majority of players brought at least one of those decks. Most the decks it doesn't obliterate in the meta are largely even or slightly unfavored, and the decks that do beat it don't have great matchups against everything else. As such, for the vast majority of players your best bet is to just bring what you want and have the intent to just ban the deck when you get matched up vs it. A ton of people I imagined brought it knowing it would be extremely likely to get banned so they could play the two other decks that they wanted in the majority of matchups. And as pointed out before, even when it did queue into counters it ended up winning anyway.


As for upcoming changes, I think the most obvious deck that needs action is Azir Irelia. Azir Irelia IMO is substantially more oppressive in the current meta than any other deck in the format and realistically it makes it really hard to play any sort of midrange or control deck since it's such a hard deck to stop when it has any remotely decent draw. The nerfs it got in 2.9 were IMO largely cancelled out by the bugfix to Irelia in most matchups, and I'd argue that against aggro it was actually a buff. At this point I think it's much more dangerous to go too soft on the deck than to go too hard, and I think it would be better to do their old League strat of overnerfing a strategy and then quitely buffing it up later after the heat has been taken off it.

As for everything else, I still stand by my previous statement that I don't think that anything NEEDS to be changed in order for the meta to remain healthy at least as far as the cards that currently exist go. Thresh Nasus is great on ladder and TLC is annoying, but those decks won a combined 1 seasonal, have reasonable win/play rates on ladder, and haven't been too problematic competitively IMO. If they are going to change anything, I think that Thresh Nasus, TLC, and Ez Draven would all need to get changes because I think Ez Draven especially has the possibility of being too strong if TLC is brought down a bit because TLC is its only bad matchup among popular decks. Also if there's sizable buffs and the new cards end up being good, the changes might not end up being necessary anyway.

 

[Dahbomb]

Targon should be getting changes too tbh. Of course they absolutely should nerf some of the hyper aggro cards (Dune Keeper, Merciless Hunter, SI aggro package) but they definitely need to hit the over the top healing of Targon too. No other class comes close in terms of providing both value/stats and healing on singular cards. Distribute that healing on to other classes like Ionia.

Ez Draven I don't know what they could realistically hit in that deck. The most unfair card in that deck is Tri Beam but Tri Beam has extremes of both high and low plus has deck building cost. Like Majinbae legit lost a game because his Tribeam spawned a Spapvine and he couldn't summon Farron lol.

 

[Evolution of Metal]

Maybe NA is where the "fun" is on display. I watched mostly EU, and then first NA game where the guy fucked himself with tribeam snapvine.

New Elite looks alright.
Shen ship is... unplayable? There are very few trample cards in Shen decks, and you typically trade positively anyway with barrier, double-strike is not very efficient. Although, all minus Swain's ships are too slow or requires too much setup to payoff.

 

[Boat Times]

Pyke looks pretty crazy. Not sure if he's gonna be tier 1 or anything but him and his deck seem pretty fun to play (of course I said that about Irelia and she turned out so busted I never even bothered playing her outside of Lab of Legends).

Took a break from the game after the last even ended and I think that was a good call. I'm getting excited about he new expansion and I'll be rejuvenated from the break when it hits on Wednesday!

 

[Poodlestrike]

Pyke's flavor is freaking perfect. Big AD, chainkilling hilarity.

 

[jon bones]

Really excited for Pyke & Lurk - need to make sure I have a nice chunk of shards ready!

Also need him to show up in Wild Rift

 

[TheWorthyEdge]

Went through all of the new cards. This is going to be a lot of fun haha

 

[Evolution of Metal]

EU Masters today was... quite boring. Whatever happened with NA seasonal yesterday was the highpoint of meta seeing meta and non-meta decks clash.

I hope Riot can manage to pull supports, landmarks and healing out of the ditch they in. Stuff like Apheli gunz, Yasuo stuns, Braum/Poros or Vlad self damage can be niche decks, but losing whole playstyles/card types is bad for the game.

 

[Dahbomb]

My attempt at a Lurk deck. I went for 30/40 Lurker ratio which isn't bad but it's improved by the 5 predicts in the deck.

3 of Bone Skewers and either Ruthless Predator or Shaped Stone have to be important to the deck as one of the few combat tricks it has access to. Shaped Stone has some deck building cost and usually lowers your Lurk consistency unless you run the 1 mana Lurk landmark which I don't really like. I would have had to run 2 Persevarium and 3 Rock Hoppers to make Shaped Stone work which is something I expect most players to try out at start. I went with Salvage + Ruthless Predator instead because I think this deck will be having a lot of unused spell mana because there aren't many proactive spells in the deck except for Call the Pack which is absolutely a 3 of.

There is the Redbait 1 mana Lurk spell card that puts a Snapjaw on top of your deck. While it improves consistency, it's overall just a bad card and if you can improve consistency in other ways then this card is not needed. Same for the 1 mana landmark which does nothing aside from providing consistency. Maybe high rolling Lurkers is the way to win with the deck but I am going to hedge my bets for now.

Went for 2 Dunebreakers, 1 Jaull Fish. It's possible that you need to cut down on some of the top end but I think it's fine having 2 6 drops and 1 8 drop. Especially at the speed this deck is playing at which is like Midrange. Also went with Snapjaw Swarm 3x because I am not running the spell, it's quite essential to proc Lurk on opponent's turn.


After that it's a matter of playing around with the deck. Maybe I have too many spells. Maybe Shaped Stone is better because +3 is quite a bit better for this deck than +2. Maybe it just doesn't have enough Lurk triggers and I have to run the 1 mana spell too.

 

[Evolution of Metal]

Ekko reveal is important, but emotes are more importanter.

I hope to see some fun ones.

AND now we have skins to look forward. Prices are awful and needs LoL's 50% off sales, but the gallery/arsenal is growing ;)

 

[jon bones]

AND now we have skins to look forward. Prices are awful and needs LoL's 50% off sales, but the gallery/arsenal is growing ;)

Click to shrink...

what skins are coming?

 

[Evolution of Metal]

what skins are coming?

Click to shrink...

I don't know, but I am looking forward.

Tis a deduction in my part that every new thing in LoL comes with its own skins and cosmetics, and I hope Expansions come with skins in LoR too.

 

[ZeroX]

Pretty sure Field Promotion exists to make Zed's skin viable

also I like Dovvagedys but dude… come on… please…

 

[Dahbomb]

Ladder meta =/= tournament meta.

Most people agreed that the tournament meta is fine but the Ladder meta is the issue. When you can't ban a deck then players play the best deck on Ladder. And when the deck is the best by a margin then it becomes even more popular.

And even tournament meta Azir Irelia was oppressive. It was the winner in 3 of the Seasonals and the winner of the 4th brought a line up that was forced to ban Azir Irelia.


With that said, I think players do need to get out of herd mentality and shouldn't be hyper focused on a few % point differences. No.. something is not abject trash for having a 49-50% winrate on Ladder. Likewise something may not be over powered at a 56% WR. With that mentality you wouldn't have stuff like Cithria Matron winning in GFs for example or someone doing well with Garen + Sivir.


It would be sort of foolish not to nerf Azir Irelia plus hyper aggro high roll plays if they are looking to push Predict heavy archetypes and Lurk. New expansion would kinda suck if all the new decks get farmed by a buffed Discard Aggro (that new 2 drop is great for it).

 

[LightBang]

Well, I by default do what he's saying. I just lose a lot...

I bet players in this competitive card game where meta is solved within days, who are influenced by streamers that even got access to the cards before release don't care about winning or losing.

 

[Sylvee]

While I understand the point Dova's trying to make I really think he should just keep his mouth shut until the meta rotates as he's doing way more harm than good at this point. While the deck is certainly much more counterable than several of the previous "best" decks the game's seen and has a really cool unique play pattern that the game hasn't explored yet, it's really not the hill you should die on when trying to argue that the game is more balanced than people say. Again, I'd dumpster the deck and then quietly buff it up later after people stop having reasons to complain about it and the people who liked the deck overtake the deck's narrative like what happened with Aphelios.

More than anything else I think that the frustration towards the metas in the past couple months I think shows that it might be a good idea to have a second Ranked queue for BO3 ladder as I think that this would help bridge the gap between ladder play and competitive which generally speaking is able to handle slightly overpowered or polarizing decks much better than BO1 blind pick ever will. While I imagine that most people will probably stick to BO1 either for time reasons or to insure they can play the deck they want, I think that would help people who REALLY don't want to play vs a specific deck and also help signal that if you're looking for a competitive environment then BO1 isn't exactly where you'll find it. Currently the BO3 gauntlets are almost entirely occupied by less skilled players so it's really not a good place to go if you're looking for competitive play, but if they have a ladder with matchmaking it might help.

Most the complaints about current ranked ladder will pretty much always be in place regardless of how balanced the meta actually is, and I think that most the complaints about decks seem to be more about being frustrated by playing and losing to the same decks a lot and they just want the current best decks to just go away every expansion which I don't think is a good idea long-term. Polarizing matchups will exist in Runeterra by virtue of how the cards themselves are designed, and the only way you could significantly remove that is by reducing the amount of unique cards and archetypes in the game while also making all the regions largely do the same thing. Frostbite is inherently a polarizing type of interaction as it's extremely good against midrangey creature-based decks and substantially less effective against go wide builds as well as mostly spell-based decks. You can't make frostbite as a concept not polarizing. If you did try to lessen the possibility of polarizing matchups you'd end up with a game with substantially less interesting card and archetype design.

Another thing is that games with more homogeneous pieces generally have way larger issues with game balance because if everything is fairly similar, there's no reason to not pick the statistically best thing. In competitive Call of Duty you almost always just see the players picking the same 1-3 guns from the usable weapon classes and ignoring everything else, and that's because all the guns are so similar in terms of usability to each other that there's no reason to not just pick whatever the statistically best option is. Dragon Ball Fighterz also had this issue where many of the strongest tools in the game were universal mechanics like Super Dash and most characters played fairly similar to each other. So while none of the characters were *that* bad, character variety at high levels of play was generally pretty poor as there wasn't much of a reason to play a weaker character because they were usually just worse versions of better characters. By having tools with a larger range of differences, you can make weaker options still have value as they might end up still being a good counter to one of the stronger strategies.

Kinda rambly, but I've touched on most of the offending decks already so I didn't want to go into them as much. Really I'm hoping more than anything that some of the Foundations and Rising Tides decks can get some love with some buffs in the upcoming patch as there's some decks that definitely have struggled to keep up with the rest of the game.

 

[Dahbomb]

I think Masters should be BO3 ladder tbh. Especially when Masters ranking counts for World seeding and even Seasonal seedings.

I agree on games having similar looking archetypes being homogeneous even if they have perceived balance. It's fine to have some polarization in a game with diverse archetypes like LoR has. In that sense, Azir Irelia is a great addition because it doesn't fit into existing archetypes and offers essentially new match up tables. Yeah it's over powered and prevalent but that's an easy issue to solve.

The main issue with LoR is simply that the balance cadence has been dropping the ball. This next patch better bring a ton of changes or the playerbase would be unhappy. It's not really acceptable that 3-4 decks that were strong/top tier two expansions ago are still just as strong if not stronger now despite addition of new cards and balance changes.

 

[Evolution of Metal]

Never a good sign when game issues are downplayed by devs.

Wishlist:
• Never nerf things to the ground, no Aphelios 2.0
• Somehow standartized and harmonious competitive format
• Never split decks with the staggered Expansion: Azir/Irelia nukes the meta, Landmarks remain memes, Ekko/Zilean remains to be seen
• Stop powercreeping with shape stone, droplet, starshaping etc.
• Start buffing support cards for archtypes that are lost in the void
• Release the malphite emote

I hope to see nerfs for Zoe, Ballistic Bot, Starshaping, Irelia herself, make Watcher combo a 9 or 10 mana ordeal, Troll Chant in tomorrow's notes.

 

[Dahbomb]

Last batch of cards out before tomorrow's Ekko reveal + balance notes.

Time Winder is basically a Static Shock only it costs 2 mana but has downside of needing to Discard a card to use it. Usable in Ez Draven decks or even Discard Aggro.

Dropboarder is a great Prediction. It can be summoned at Burst speed which is very high utility. 1 mana 1/3 isn't even bad as a turn 1 play against aggro.

Time Trick seems like a staple PnZ card to me. Could also be Ekko's champion spell.

Practical Perfectionist is like a better version of that 2/4 3 mana card in PnZ that creates copies of supported allies. It also comes with Predict so that's another plus side. I wonder if you can use this on Hexite Crystal, does the draw happen after the Predict or during it? Need to test.

 

[jon bones]

what the fuckkk hahah

 

[Won]

They unnerfed Will. The end is nigh.

 

[Lumination]

Make way for the REAL update this week:

Legends of Runeterra

Choose your champions, make your move, and be legendary in the League of Legends strategy card game: Legends of Runeterra.

playruneterra.com

=============
CHAMP BUFFS
=============

Miss Fortune (Level 2)
Change: No Keywords → Overwhelm

Jarvan IV (Level 1)
Level Up Requirement: Allies have survived 4+ strikes from enemy blockers. → Allies have survived 3+ strikes from enemy blockers.

Tryndamere (Level 2)
Change: Overwhelm, Fearsome → Overwhelm, Fearsome, Tough

Karma
Cost: 6 → 5

Riven
When you gain the attack token, Reforge. → When I'm summoned, if you have an attack token, [or when you gain the attack token], Reforge.

Heimerdinger
Base Stats (Level 1): 1|3 → 2|4
Base Stats (Level 2): 2|4 → 3|5

Hecarim
Base Stats (Level 1): 5|5 → 5|6
Base Stats (Level 2): 6|6 → 6|7

Sivir (level 1)
Level Up Requirement: You've dealt 35+ damage. → You've dealt 30+ damage.

Taliyah (Level 2)
Change: Attack: Deal 2 to my blocker. If it's dead or gone, deal 2 to the enemy Nexus instead. If you have a landmark, do this 2 more times. → Attack: Deal 2 to my blocker three times. If it's dead or gone, deal 2 to the enemy Nexus instead.

Taric
Base Stats (Level 1): 3|4 → 3|5
Base Stats (Level 2): 4|5 → 4|6

Aphelios
Base Stats (Level 1): 3|2 → 3|3
Base Stats (Level 2): 4|3 → 4|4

=============
CHAMP NERFS
=============

Irelia (Level 1)
Level Up Requirement: 12+ allies have attacked. → 14+ allies have attacked.

Azir (Level 1)
Level Up Requirement: You've summoned 10 units. → You've summoned 13 units.

Nasus (Level 1)
Change: Fearsome → No Keywords*
*Nasus level 2 & 3 still have Fearsome

===================
NON-CHAMPS BUFFS
===================

Make it Rain
Cost: 3 → 2

Black Market Merchant
Base Stats: 2|1 → 2|2

Double Up
Cost: 6 → 5

Slotbot
Change: Round Start: Grant me +0|+1 for each card you drew last round, then shuffle my Power and Health. → On Summon and Round Start: Grant me +0|+1 for each card you drew last round, then shuffle my Power and Health.

Confront
Cost: 3 → 2

Mageseeker Inciter
Base Stats: 4|3 → 4|4

Laurent Bladekeeper
Base Stats: 2|3 → 3|3

Howling Abyss
Cost: 7 → 6

Ren Shadowblade
Base Stats: 3|3 → 4|3

Greenglade Lookout
Base Stats: 2|1 → 2|2

Young Witch
Base Stats: 1|1 → 1|2

Will of Ionia
Cost: 5 → 4

Twin Disciplines
Cost: 3 → 2

Incisive Tactician
Base Stats: 4|5 → 5|5

Citybreaker
Base Stats: 0|5 → 1|5

Jae Medarda
Base Stats: 4|4 → 5|5

Midenstokke Henchman
Base Stats: 5|3 → 5|4

Rhasa the Sunderer
Base Stats: 7|5 → 8|6

Duskrider
Base Stats: 2|5 → 3|5

The Clock Hand
Base Stats: 4|7 → 7|7

Raz Bloodmane
Base Stats: 6|6 → 7|7

Mountain Sojourners
Base Stats: 2|5 → 4|5

Sun Guardian
Base Stats: 4|3 → 4|4

==================
NON-CHAMP NERFS
==================

Dancing Droplet
Change: Elusive, Attune → Elusive
Rummage
Cost: 1 → 2

Tri-Beam Improbulator
Cost: 4 → 5

Watcher
Change: I cost 0 if you've summoned 4+ allies that cost 8+ this game. Attack: Obliterate the enemy deck. → I cost 0 if you've summoned 5+ allies that cost 8+ this game. Attack: Obliterate all but 3 non-champion cards in the enemy deck.

Escaped Abomination
Base Stats: 4|3 → 4|2

Stalking Shadows
Cost: 2 → 3

Dunekeeper
Base Stats: 2|1 → 1|2

Starshaping
Amount Healed: 5 → 4

The Serpent
Base Stats: 2|1 → 1|1

The Fangs
Base Stats: 3|2 → 2|2

=========================
RANDOM FUN THINGS I LIKED
=========================
Ekko, Pyke, Rek'sai, Swain, and Shyvana have been added as selectable champions in Lab of Legends.

We've added 4 additional complete decks as rewards into the prologue [...] Current players will also get all of the new decks in their Loot inbox, if you don't have the cards already.

===
FIN
===

Love the reverts they're doing (WHERE'S REX, RITO). There are a handful of SCARY buffs and nerfs this time around. 5m Karma + 4m Will. RUMMAGE IS DED. Targon's early game smacked really hard. Stalking Shadows where it belongs. Slightly exaggerating, but it feels like we might have to build a whole new meta from scratch now.

 

[jon bones]

YES

last meta really burnt me out but this all looks like a huge shake up

now do i build Lurk or Ekko....

 

[Dahbomb]

Holy shit God damn what a patch!!!!

I liked most everything in there except Will of Ionia going to 4 and Lux not getting buffed.

 

[Lumination]

My first pairing with Ekko was going to be TF, especially maybe with those Slotbot changes. But with rummage at 2... TF might have to sleep for a bit longer.

 

[Dahbomb]

So best decks in the game now have to be Lee Sin, Shurima Overwhelm, Thresh Nasus, Pirate Burn, Ashe and Thralls right? I think Ez Draven has to be a deleted deck now and you would rather play Ez Swain (but Will at 4 mana though...). Actually surprised Troll Chant wasn't nerfed to 3 mana in this patch, Freljord looking good.

 

[Deleted member 28523]

4 mana will

fuck

was liking the changes up until then.

 

[Deleted member 28523]

good changes otherwise. Stalking Shadows being nerfed was a long time coming. dumb card. Watcher nerf is good as well. Watcher vs Maokai effect was always dumb.

love the plunder, draw stuff from Bilgewater being buffed. Citybreaker was secretly sort of good already. 1/5 is a pretty good statline.

 

[Sylvee]

So I counted, that's 47 total individual card changes. While a ton of them are token buffs that I doubt are going to change anything, (Mageseeker Inciter getting +1 HP and nothing else) a lot of them aren't and might have impact. Firstly nerfs:

Azir Irelia I'm really afraid they didn't go far enough. The deck was so strong before that even taking a turn longer max on its win condition I don't think goes far enough. All the cards individually targeted make sense, but I'm afraid they didn't go far enough. It's still going to stomp every deck that can't kill Azir.

TLC is dead IMO. Watcher is too honest now, the amount of games that the deck won with Watcher decking them the turn before TLC would have died on the attack is pretty common, and it's much harder to play the copy of Watcher at 0 cost with the build that currently exists as you'll need to play 2 Matrons or 2 Fading Memories to get it, and obviously with Fading Memories that means one less copy of Watcher to play. I really think that SI/FD control will pivot to some other wincon because I think that Watcher isn't good enough now. Regardless of the play pattern, the deck only slightly overperformed before and the changes to Watcher will 100% lose them quite a few games.

Stalking Shadows is probably the biggest individual nerf that Thresh Nasus got, but that card was obviously too good for 2 mana and I expect it'll still be useful at 3. While each individual nerf isn't as big and I think all of them potentially still might see play, 4 nerfs for a specific archetype still hurts and I wouldn't be surprised if it ends up being too much.

I said it a while ago but Rummage is too good at 1 mana and honestly it was about time it went to 2. This also conveniently hurts discard a bit which might have potentially been a bit too strong otherwise with both TLC and Thresh Nasus getting nerfs. Tri-Beam at 4 often felt like you were getting away with something if it was even slightly charged, honestly I think it's still totally playable at 5 mana as the tempo plays with it are still potentially crazy.

Some of these Targon nerfs were a long time coming as well. Starshaping''s 2 effects combine very well as it's a great card both against aggro decks as well as midrange and control decks where you need a wincon. And The Fangs was way too strong vs aggressive lists while still being fine vs everyone else, it is probably still good at 2 attack IMO.


For buffs, the two biggest concerns are the Will and Twin Disciplines buffs. Recall IMO is just as strong as it's ever been and even decks that don't have great synergy with the self bounce from Homecoming sometimes played it. And maybe I'm still thinking in a Foundations mindset but 2 mana to save your dude seems very strong. IDK though the game's changed a ton since when Elusives were a problem.

The Bilge buffs are neat, Make It Rain is very strong at 2 mana and it might open up more plunder stuff, especially with Merchant back to 2/2. The non-problematic Ionia buffs are nice too aside from Ren which firmly falls in the token buff camp IMO.

SI/FD has both the unnerfed Tryndamere as well as potentially Howling Abyss to play with. IMO I think that FTR might be back on the menu, although I wish that they buffed Warmother's Call as that card has been lagging behind ever since FTR got printed.

So best decks in the game now have to be Lee Sin, Shurima Overwhelm, Thresh Nasus, Pirate Burn, Ashe and Thralls right? I think Ez Draven has to be a deleted deck now and you would rather play Ez Swain (but Will at 4 mana though...). Actually surprised Troll Chant wasn't nerfed to 3 mana in this patch, Freljord looking good.

Click to shrink...

Overwhelm and Thralls were strong in large part due to their excellent matchups vs TLC and Thresh Nasus which I think both will be either a decent amount weaker or almost non-existent this patch. With both those decks being nerfed plus the Fangs nerf Aggro might be pretty strong, which if that's the case then both those decks will suffer. I don't think Ez Swain got any direct love in the patch (citybreaker is still not good enough for a Swain deck IMO) and I think Rummage and Tri-Beam are still playable cards so I think Ez Draven will still be pretty strong especially with the TLC nerf. And there's the possibility that stuff like Make it Rain or Karma might end up being good enough now. And yeah I think FTR might be back and with Blighted Ravine I think it could definitely still be tier 1. Plus like I mentioned before, I think Azir Irelia might have not gotten hit hard enough so I could see it still being really strong.


Also RubinZoo and DeadboltDoris, two members of the live balance team, are doing an unofficial patch review this Saturday at 11AM PDT to help make up for the lack of notes in the patch itself. While it would have been ideal if the stream was more timely it's still a nice gesture and if it's good I hope they can do more in the future. Also with Dovagedys repeatedly putting his foot in his mouth it'll be good to hear from someone from the balance team who hopefully can put his points more eloquently.



Lastly no one mentioned the best part of the patch, 5 more Lab of Legends champs. The support of the mode so far has been above and beyond what I had expected, and while I'm happy to have more champs to play with I'm especially excited for what they have planned next.

 

[Dahbomb]

LMFAOOO!!!!

Twitch

Twitch is the world's leading video platform and community for gamers.

clips.twitch.tv

That said I still think you need to run at least one of Jaull Fish. But it's sad that you can target the same units again. I guess it would be too insane otherwise.


Also people actually used Stalking Shadows in Thresh Nasus?

My thoughts on Azir Irelia is that its actually now a tier 2 deck. It got slapped by like 4 different nerfs and the overall speed of the deck is much lower due to the level up of the champions. Yea they will level up fast still... but we are talking about a potential one turn difference in many cases. Against aggro Azir Irelia should lose more and that will hurt its percentages and thus its playrates. People are underestimating the 1 mana 1/1 Elusive nerf, if you recall with it that's a 2 mana swing which is gigantic. It's still good definitely and will be tournament staple (especially if people are running Overwhelm/Thralls) but I expect a lot less of the deck in Ladder which is fine.

Actually longer overall thoughts on patch incoming.

 

[Sylvee]

Tbh I remembered Stalking Shadows getting Cursed keeper recently but that mighta been the Cithria Matron deck. IIRC it saw play when Caretaker was in the deck but I guess newer versions pivoted away from it.

 

[AWizardDidIt]

Loving almost all the changes in this patch. It's going to feel like an entirely new game now, this feels almost as exciting as getting a whole new region. The one omission I am rather shocked about is that Merciless Hunter wasn't touched. That card still is too insane. But Bilgewater and Ionia look powerful af this expansion and I'm really excited for more Karma.

I love Ekko but there's just not enough predict synergy to ever run him outside of a Shurima pairing. That's a bummer.

Watching the Swim/Grapplr stream and Lurk is just so high roll. It blows you out immediately or it runs out of steam on turn 5.

 

[Lumination]

Azir Irelia I'm really afraid they didn't go far enough. The deck was so strong before that even taking a turn longer max on its win condition I don't think goes far enough. All the cards individually targeted make sense, but I'm afraid they didn't go far enough. It's still going to stomp every deck that can't kill Azir.

Click to shrink...

I like the direction they've been taking here. A LOT of people find the deck fun to play and they don't want to kneecap that aspect. People meme that sentiment, but I agree with it.

So instead, they're making the deck slower to ramp up. And since the deck also runs out of gas by turn 6, they are narrowing the window in which the deck can be strong and steamroll. Droplet nerf makes playing Irelia on 3 much more awkward since they won't have mana for the spell, which further delays the window. Overall, the deck will be strong on turns 4-6 now and then peter out. I'm ok with this.

 

[Sylvee]

I like the direction they've been taking here. A LOT of people find the deck fun to play and they don't want to kneecap that aspect. People meme that sentiment, but I agree with it.

So instead, they're making the deck slower to ramp up. And since the deck also runs out of gas by turn 6, they are narrowing the window in which the deck can be strong and steamroll. Droplet nerf makes playing Irelia on 3 much more awkward since they won't have mana for the spell, which further delays the window. Overall, the deck will be strong on turns 4-6 now and then peter out. I'm ok with this.

Click to shrink...

My biggest fear going into this patch is that they don't go hard enough on Azir Irelia and it still ends up being a tier 1 deck for another month or two. While the deck is cool and unique, I feel like the time for a more delicate nerf that brought it in line with the rest of the meta was 4 weeks ago and they didn't really hit the mark there. There's going to be a colossal shitstorm if the deck is even remotely close to tier 1.


Also want to add that I'm glad that Riot is still taking onboarding seriously and updating the new player experience. This kind of stuff matters a lot and it's great that they're devoting time on improving it as the game expands.

 

[Lumination]

The more I think about it, there's no way Karma won't be back in some form. 5m means they can play 2 copies in one turn, which is so much harder to stop. 2m Discipline is really really close to Troll Chant for a region that's way more frustrating with their backrow champs. 4m Will, don't need to say more there.

2m Discipline might be close to an Ionia staple now. Scout Standalone Zed might actually be a thing lol.

My biggest fear going into this patch is that they don't go hard enough on Azir Irelia and it still ends up being a tier 1 deck for another month or two. While the deck is cool and unique, I feel like the time for a more delicate nerf that brought it in line with the rest of the meta was 4 weeks ago and they didn't really hit the mark there. There's going to be a colossal shitstorm if the deck is even remotely close to tier 1.

Click to shrink...

I honestly don't see it happening! Especially with Make it Rain back on the menu. But idk, my read of the community has been not that the meta has been stale (which is a part of it), but that it felt like Rito stopped caring about doing big changes. And so even if this patch somehow doesn't shift things, the important thing is they tried and they are committing to doing more. This does definitely feels like a Rubin patch to me!

 

[Evolution of Metal]

• Missing some of the Malphite's landmark buffs. Spiral Staircase and Rock creatures don't feel right, especially when many other things got buffs.

• Goodbye Watcher, eat shit!

• Supports got a lot of buffs: Taric, Soujouner, Disciplines, Witch

• Targon got nerfs, and while Zoe is still OP, at least supporting cards are worse

• Rummage was never fun and enabled too much nonsense. This is a good way to nerf Draven/Ballistic without nerfing the cards themselves. Nerfing Bot itself would be a death sentence for Victor.

Emotes: Pyke is alright, Ekko is bad. Dual emotes will never work. Laughing Nasus and Salt Azir remains the best emotes from the entire set.

 

[Dahbomb]

Full Thoughts on Patch:

*Miss Fortuna gains Overwhelm: Probably a tier 1 champion now, was already good. Not sure why they reverted it but that's ok. She doesn't really level up in Pirate Bay and this is mostly a buff to Scouts which it might have needed. Neutral change to me.

*Jarvan easier level up. It's a buff and it will be relevant but I would have much preferred that they changed interaction with Quick Attack units and 0 attack units. Could have been better but it's still a net positive change.

*Tryndamere gains Tough. Actually relevant somewhat. You don't really want Tryndamere to die so easily so that you have the cheat death effect against removals. Maybe brings back FTR but we'll see.

*Karma to 5. Great change and much needed.

*Irelia to 14 allies needed to attack. Needed nerf to be honestly given how strong her level up is.

*Riven buff. Was leaked before and yeah this is very nice. Much needed for consistency.

*Heimer +1/+1. Needed but don't know if this brings him back. Game has power crept quite a bit since then.

*Hecarim buff +1. Isn't too relevant but it's nice. Net positive.

*Azir level up condition harder. It's still easy to get in Azirelia deck but its harder to get in decks that can't swarm the board as easily like the Azir Burn deck. Good change.

*Nasus loses Fearsome. I didn't really think Nasus needed a nerf to be honest. The issue with the deck was the lower curve at the start rather than the top end. So I am slightly negative on this change but they had to nerf Thresh/Nasus so this is probably the only feasible change they could make on Nasus himself.

*Sivir easier to level up. Much needed change, everytime I played with her and leveled up her it felt like the game was already over. Being able to level up a turn quicker means it makes her level up more relevant to the game which is good.

*Taliyah: Removed requirement to landmark. Now THIS is a buff that people have wanted. Makes her much better in non Thrall decks.

*Taric buff. Kinda unneeded, this champion isn't bad he just needs better spells to clone. He will eventually be good. But I am fine with it if they want people to push more people to play him. They did fix the Golden Aegis bug so that's a nerf to some cheesy Taric decks. Is it me or is this like the 5th buff they have made to Taric so far?

*Aphelis stat unnerfed. Expected change but I think Aphelios may need more.


*Make it Rain costs 2 mana. I kinda wished they limited the RNG on this card. Will just be frustrating to play against especially for aggro. Oh well, not that big of a deal and BW kinda needs it play non aggro decks. Big buff to MF as well.

*Black Market buff. Big for nab decks and BW in general.

*Double Up. I have been wanted them to buff this card and that other 7 mana card that tosses and deals 7 damage. Good change and it might actually see itself in decks.

*Slotbot change is great QoL.

*Confront to 2 mana is a buff to Shyvana decks and that's it. You still don't want to main deck this because Demacia still have a shit ton of good Challenger units.

*Mageseeker buffed but no buffs to Lux LOL!

*Laurent Bladekeeper buffed +1 HP. This card is actually underrated and good in certain all in decks but the buff is still nice to have. It's always good to you know.. have your 4 mana card be able to Fearsome block LOL!

*Howling Abyss much needed buff to 6 mana.

*Ren buffed to 4 attack. Good buff but needs more.

*Dancing Droplet - HUUUGGGGEEEE NERF!! But much needed because this card overall is just unfair.

*Greenglade Lookout - Big buff, actually usable in Shen decks now. Being able to discount Brightsteel Formation or Shen boat/Jarvan is really relevant.

*Young Witch - Another big buff which I am surprised with considering this is already a usable card in certain decks. Expect to see some Lulu Jinx decks in this upcoming expansion.

*Will of Ionia to 4 mana - Come on Riot... this Patch was so close to being perfect! This makes Lee Sin very strong all of a sudden and makes slower strategies tougher to execute like Swain and Deep. Really iffy on this change.

*Twin Disciplines - Fucking its' been over a year now, it finally happened. Much needed for a large variety of Ionia decks. It's not OP or anything but it's good now.

*Incisive Tactician - Ok so this card isn't a meme now when it was a 4 attack units in a Reputation deck...

*City Breaker - Relevant buff, not sure if people will run it though.

*Jae and Henchmen - Good buffs on bad/meme cards. Not relevant unfortunately.

*Rummage 2 mana - It's only been over a year now... fucking finally. Much needed nerf after so long and slows down Discard Aggro, TF Fizz etc. Thankfully P&Z has a really cool new draw card that they can use instead.

*Tri Beam to 5 mana - Man I don't know if I like this. Yeah this card was extremely powerful in Ez Draven and maybe the Vi Zoe deck but there was deck building cost to this. I don't know if you run this card anymore and might even kill Ez Draven.

*Watcher - Rip TLC and this also nerfed Turbo Thralls (in some cases). This was a needed nerf though.

*Rhasa - Not relevant buff at that stage of the game but a buff is a buff.

*Duskrider - Much needed buff, now you won't feel as bad getting it from Unspeakable Horror. Nightfall needs the help after the Stalking Shadows nerf...

*Escaped Abomination - Much needed nerf but would have liked to see it go to 3 attack instead. You are still going to have stupid 11 damage on turn 3 or some stupid shit like that in Thresh Nasus.

*Stalking Shadows - Been saying this card was OP since it was revealed, they finally made the change. This nerfs aggro SI decks quite a bit and that's good in my book.

*Clockhand - Didn't really need this buff as this was already played. But still fine.

*Bloodmane needed the extra stats but still won't be played much. The Shurima SI Fearsome deck was always kinda low key.

*Dunekeeper - Much needed nerf, this hits a lot of decks (Thresh Nasus, Azirirelia, Azir Burn etc.). Actually a buff to Sun Disc believe it or not.

*Mountain Sojourners - Big buff but still might be too slow.

*Sun Guardian - Relevant because it makes overall Daybreak better since you can get this from Rahvun often.

*Starshaping - Much needed nerf and they nerfed it how I wanted it by reducing its healing a tad bit.

*The Serpent - Another much needed nerf, this card was just too strong. Still very good as a 0 mana Challenger.

*The Fangs - Basically got double nerfed, can't Ferasome block, less overall healing and its options are weaker. I expect people to run this a lot less unless they really need to.


4 NEW CHAMPIONS IN LAB OF LEGENDS!!!!



META IMPLICATIONS


STOCKS DOWN

*TLC - Effectively gutted. Technically you can still run the deck but your win condition has been slowed down to a crawl. It's slow enough that Targon decks can beat you before you get the Watcher off which makes it a worse control deck finisher. Maybe that's fair, I don't know but I know that the deck has to be fundamentally altered to be relevant.

*Ez Draven - Big nerfs through Rummage and Tri Beam. I think players should look toward EZ Swain instead, Ez Draven was already a borderline competitive deck and was carried by Tri Beam.

*Thresh Nasus - Hot take but I think this deck is still tier 1 or 2. It got 3 nerfs but they weren't major.. not in the same way as the previous two decks or Azir Irelia. Especially when aggro is still going to be relevant, Thresh Nasus going to eat.

*Azirelia - Lots of nerfs but still strong. They have slowed down the deck quite a bit and I think you have to change the deck quite a bit, make it so that it peaks around turn 6ish which means that we might see return of Field Marshal or at least Voice of Arisen. Dancing Droplet might get cut. It will lose harder to aggro that's for sure. I am fine with how they nerfed here to be honest.

*SI Aggro decks - Stalking Shadows nerf is big and needed. I think Nightfall goes to a tier 3 deck sadly off of this change.

*Certain P&Z decks - Discard Aggro and TF Fizz mainly nerfed due to Rummage. They will still be fine though but they will feel the nerf.

*Late game Targon decks - They are more susceptible to aggro with the triple nerfs to Serpent, Starshaping and Fangs. They should still be fine though but need to change up their decks. Won't be too affected overall I think.


STOCKS UP

*Pirate Burn - Its back baby. With SI Aggro decks being nerfed and Miss Fortune being buffed(due to MIR being 2 mana) plus Make it Rain being usable card in aggro BW decks... I think it might be best aggro deck alongside Discard Aggro. We really might be going all the way back to Lee Sin, FTR, Pirate Burn meta like 4 expansions ago LOL!

*Thralls - Technically nerfed due to Watcher change but Clockhand buffed which is slightly relevant. This deck isn't that bad against aggro thanks to board wipes, freezes and heals. Less Azirelia by itself is huge stocks for this deck.

*Overwhelm Freljord - Unchanged, slightly buffed due to Sivir. I still expect it remains in tier 2 until meta gets figured out. There will always be some Freljord SI control deck that this deck can feed on so it won't be going away.

*Lee Sin - Big stocks up. Will of Ionia buff is big and many of its bad match ups being nerfed is huge for it.

*Shen Jarvan/Fiora etc. - Various changes and additions means stocks up for Shen decks.

*Ashe decks - There will be some experimentation with Yetis in general but generally no matter what happens Ashe should be fine. More Lee Sin is good for Ashe for example.



So yeah BIG changes and we may see return of even older archetypes like Ezrael + Karma or Heimerdingers. And of course the new decks like Ekko decks and Lurk decks. Very excited for tomorrow!!!

 

[Lumination]

*Taric buff. Kinda unneeded, this champion isn't bad he just needs better spells to clone. He will eventually be good. But I am fine with it if they want people to push more people to play him. They did fix the Golden Aegis bug so that's a nerf to some cheesy Taric decks. Is it me or is this like the 5th buff they have made to Taric so far?

*Tri Beam to 5 mana - Man I don't know if I like this. Yeah this card was extremely powerful in Ez Draven and maybe the Vi Zoe deck but there was deck building cost to this. I don't know if you run this card anymore and might even kill Ez Draven.

*The Serpent - Another much needed nerf, this card was just too strong. Still very good as a 0 mana Challenger.

*The Fangs - Basically got double nerfed, can't Ferasome block, less overall healing and its options are weaker. I expect people to run this a lot less unless they really need to.

Click to shrink...

Agree on everything except these.

Golden Aegis and Pale Cascade are good enough for Taric to be run, but he is too fragile to be able to attack multiple times reliably. Typical play pattern is: play Taric on 4 -> use a spell mana on spell -> attack -> skip defending because you can't afford to -> try attacking one more time, level up, but die before the invincibility kicks in. 1hp with Tough means he may have the hp to not get steamrolled by aggro.

Tri-beam nerf is perfect imo. It's not a card you play on curve, so the mana increase hits less hard. You're still getting insane tempo for 5m -- it feels much more fair. The deckbuilding cost exists, but it's fairly minimal because the 3m options for that deck are amazing anyway.

I'd prefer a silence nerf over the Serpent nerf. 1 attack means you kill almost nothing. It's a chump attacker/blocker that you paid 1-2m for, it's not a *real* 0m card except for the surprise factor. Feels like a complete dud choice now.

Fangs is nigh unplayable. 4m and can't block Fearsome or trade past some 2m followers.

 

[Dahbomb]

I think the fact that you will see less Fangs means there will be less Equinox anyway. I would have liked the card to be nerfed though.

0 mana Challenger is still kinda insane. Its a chump blocker plus can remove an Elusive blocker for your Great Beyond or set up better trades. I have won so many games off of that card its crazy.


Swim played his jank Shaped Stone Lurker deck before and immediately switched to my superior Ruthlees Predator version. You really really need like 32+ Lurk cards at the minimum to make the deck work. I think even 34+ minimum. So that basically means 3 Bone Skewers, some number of Feral Prescience, Ruthless Predator and some draw. And even then that feels like too many non Lurks.

 

[Evolution of Metal]

*Taric buff. Kinda unneeded, this champion isn't bad he just needs better spells to clone. He will eventually be good. But I am fine with it if they want people to push more people to play him. They did fix the Golden Aegis bug so that's a nerf to some cheesy Taric decks. Is it me or is this like the 5th buff they have made to Taric so far?

Click to shrink...

I will take all the health on Taric.

A champion should never be weak, incapable of trading with vanilla units. Taric can now attack into most turn-5 units, and be a really strong blocker at turn 4.

Problem with supports is that you don't want to give good blocks for opponent because you have to attack with everything to get support value. Soujouner now trades well, and Taric is a tanky unit even without a combat trick.

I think the buff was needed. I will make supports a deck to fear!

 

[Deleted member 28523]

so why wouldn't i play Ezrael/Karma? seems like it's never been better.

 

[Dahbomb]

so why wouldn't i play Ezrael/Karma? seems like it's never been better.

Click to shrink...

That used to work better with pre-reworked Ezrael. That said Ezrael plus TF might be back with pre nerfed Merchant and Make it Rain.

 

[Deleted member 28523]

That used to work better with pre-reworked Ezrael. That said Ezrael plus TF might be back with pre nerfed Merchant and Make it Rain.

Click to shrink...

But 4 Mana Will. also Riptide is still bad so TF/ezrael wont be as fun.

 

[Dealan]

Kinda wish they would do a minor rework on Karma instead of just restoring her to 5, she's always been one of the most frustrating decks to play against. (Except in Karma mirrors which are actually pretty enjoyable.)

Will of Ionia to 4 honestly seems like a change that will eventually be reverted, but the card's fun so I'll take it for now.

 

[Dahbomb]

Games have gotten quite a bit faster than when Ez Karma used to be tier 1. That deck rarely won before turn 10 and that was with pre-nerf Ezael. Ez TF is a faster deck that can close games by turn 8/9 and why it was run for a while (well until they giga nerfed the deck with the various changes). Ez Karma should still be perfectly fine though in certain metas.

 

[Dealan]

Honestly I'm not worried about the power level except as it pertains to the deck's playrate. It's like Ezreal before rework (which was great). He wasn't played at all and I was fine with that because his decks back then were too annoying to play against.

(Granted now we have more archetypes to play with so it's not a 1-1 comparison. I'm just worried seeing her at 5 lol.)

 

[Excelsior]

this kinda patch is exactly what the game has needed and I'm excited to play with all three champs! :)

kinda wish they didn't do preview streams tho, it's more fun to experiment altogether as a community than have streamers dictate the new meta before the rest of us

 

[Poodlestrike]

The issue with Karma is the same as before: she's just not great until 10 and I'm not sure that the cardbase is there for it.

 

[jon bones]

Do we know if Pool Party stuff (board and skins) will still be purchasable after tomorrows patch? Lil Peanut Brotha ?

 

[Excelsior]

Do we know if Pool Party stuff (board and skins) will still be purchasable after tomorrows patch? Lil Peanut Brotha ?

Click to shrink...

up until now it's been the case that cosmetic BUNDLE-EXCLUSIVE content won't return, everything else will remain in the shop