Only through specific cards can you duplicate or repeat the effect. There is a 4 mana card that causes your countdown effects to repeat.
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Technically Taliyah repeats the effect too by just duplicating the landmark itself. So you can have 4 effects of the same landmark if you want.
Play Landmark. Use the 4 mana card that causes it to trigger twice when it finishes. Then use Taliyah on the landmark to double it again.
Play Landmark. Use the 4 mana card that causes it to trigger twice when it finishes. Then use Taliyah on the landmark to double it again.
I think all countdown landmarks are destroyed once the countdown hits zero
Lissandra seems intended to be used with Taliyah landmark type decks however it seems much more viable using a standard Trundle + SI deck. The Ice Pillar is just so massive for Lissandra.
Makes Ledros, Atrocity and Revitalizing Roar better too as they gain more targets. The deck could have multiple win conditions in the late game, definitely a deck here.
Makes Ledros, Atrocity and Revitalizing Roar better too as they gain more targets. The deck could have multiple win conditions in the late game, definitely a deck here.
I'm just kinda wondering if there won't be a whole genre of "cheat out Watcher" decks, because that's legit just a win if it hits the board on your turn and they don't have an immediate answer in hand.
Best ways to cheat it out:
*Use Revitalizing Roar on it. You just have to make it to turn 10.
*Targons Peak of course.
*The Matron. 8 mana card that summons an Emphemeral copy of a card in hand.
*Super cheeky method of shuffling it into your deck with Pick a Card then pulling it out with Warmothers.
However, most methods are going to more difficult than just playing an Ice Pillar plus an 8 mana card which is what the deck is already doing anyway. Getting it out the normal way isn't that hard but usually it's overkill at that point.
The more difficult part is leveling up Lissandra. In most cases if you level up Lissandra you probably already won the game anyway.
*Use Revitalizing Roar on it. You just have to make it to turn 10.
*Targons Peak of course.
*The Matron. 8 mana card that summons an Emphemeral copy of a card in hand.
*Super cheeky method of shuffling it into your deck with Pick a Card then pulling it out with Warmothers.
However, most methods are going to more difficult than just playing an Ice Pillar plus an 8 mana card which is what the deck is already doing anyway. Getting it out the normal way isn't that hard but usually it's overkill at that point.
The more difficult part is leveling up Lissandra. In most cases if you level up Lissandra you probably already won the game anyway.
I'm kind of "getting back" into LoR now that the expansion is about to arrive. "getting back" in the sense that I've been playing regularly but only Labs haha. I barely play normal vs player right now. So I'm kind of not up to date about the meta and the like.
I have been watching the more recent videos from swim (about the new cards); any other resource anyone would recommend?
I have been watching the more recent videos from swim (about the new cards); any other resource anyone would recommend?
Do you want videos on the new cards or the current meta?
We are going through the Season tournament playoffs this coming weekend which is like the cap off to the Targon expansion. You can watch bits of that to get a feel of the meta.
Generally speaking though tournament meta is a bit different from Ladder meta so you probably want to have some specificity. For Ladder meta, just go on Mobalytics.gg for the stats on Ladder with Swim's tier list if he remembers to update. For tournament tier lists, Tournament Tactician is a good one to follow as it's more tailored for tournament line ups.
For upcoming cards, yeah just watch the Swim stuff since his is up regularly. Others include Grapplr, Silverfuse, Alanzq, BBG and Mogwai.
My take on the meta:
Twisted Fate plus Aphelios is the best deck in the game with Twisted Fate + Fizz being about as good. After that it's a few aggro decks and Lee Sin + Zoe.
However since you can't repeat champions, most people are not bringing TF + Aph to tournaments because it looks the two best champions. So they are going TF + Fizz, Aphelios + Diana or Tammy Kench and Lee Sin + Zoe as the top 3 line up. The counter meta decks are using triple aggro line up which include Pirate Burn, Noxus Freljord Overwhelm, Discard Aggro and Endure Fearsome Aggro (some combination of these 4). Decks like Fiora Shen, Anivia (or random Shadow Isles + Freljord), Scouts (with Stony Suppressor tech) and Twisted Fate Go Hard are in the mix too usually if someone doesn't want to run one of the 3 main decks mentioned.
Thanks, I'm looking more at what is currently being played at the gold/plat/diamond(4-3) levels.
The champions viktor, zoe, riven, aphelios are a bit foreign to me, the most I've played them are at the current lab, lol. Also Taric and Lulu; even tho they have been longer in the game, I've barely played with/against them. It's a bit unknown where they do stand right now to me.
I used to play deep decks (nautilus/maokai), a control deck with just Ashe and just a mess around deck with Fizz and Twisted Fate. I don't really know how viable every one of them is individually now (these champion cards by themselves). Nor do I know if the "deck style" is still great. I used to have a easy way with the deep deck because of knowing very well that deck and back then also "knowing" what I was playing around by just seeing the cards/regions of my opponent. The same thing could be said of the Twisted Fate / Fizz deck. I was starting to have a harder time with the Ashe deck during the bilgewater expansion because I was still playing the same old deck I used when the only cards were the Foundations set.
Basically, while my control Ashe deck was starting to have a tougher time during the Bildgewater expansion; the deep deck and twisted fate/Fizz deck were pretty great. I would say I could still use those last two decks and win most of my matches during "phase 1" of the Targon expasion. But I would say a big part of that was that I was just much more used to that deck than my oponnents to their targon/new cards decks.
I guess a big part of why I have a harder time playing vs players right now is just losing the sense of what cards I'm expecting the oponnent to have based on their regions/champions and playing around those assumptions. And not knowing how the decks I used to play "fits" (nor not) in the current meta.
You should look at the new deck lists, there have been some changes to them. TF + Fizz has a slew of new cards to use.
Playing against certain cards comes from knowing deck lists and playing regularly. If you see a new match up then just enter the champion combo into Mobalytics.gg and follow the most played version of it.
Playing against certain cards comes from knowing deck lists and playing regularly. If you see a new match up then just enter the champion combo into Mobalytics.gg and follow the most played version of it.
reddit.com/r/lorcompetitive is pretty good. Lots of strong decks with guides posted there
Lissandra not really my vibe, but yeah I'm guessing she goes well with Trundle
There's gonna be some rage inducing early Watcher/Thrall plays, but it'll be a very rare occurrence I think. Haven't seen or heard from Targon's Peak in a long long time
There's gonna be some rage inducing early Watcher/Thrall plays, but it'll be a very rare occurrence I think. Haven't seen or heard from Targon's Peak in a long long time
The two Baccai cards are really strong.
Nassus seems like a SI Control deck finisher with Ruination, Harrowing and Atrocity. Level up form is a great Atrocity target. Along with thr great animations, the music has been on point too.
Spirit Fire is a top tier card that will be staple in Shurima control decks. It's basically a better Withering Wail.
Sanctum Conservatum seems like a bad card to me despite what a lot of people are saying. I think 13+ is too difficult to achieve realistically by turn 8 and that just means this card will be dead in hand for so long. The point where you can get the trigger off, you have probably already won the game as a SI Control.
I am also thinking this Mono Shurima deck is a big meme. Nassus makes no sense with Renekton. We have to see the 3rd champion first of course but it's not looking too hot right now.
So we are past the half way mark now right? Seems like a pretty solid set so far. Less on rails stuff than the initial Targon launch.
Nassus seems like a SI Control deck finisher with Ruination, Harrowing and Atrocity. Level up form is a great Atrocity target. Along with thr great animations, the music has been on point too.
Spirit Fire is a top tier card that will be staple in Shurima control decks. It's basically a better Withering Wail.
Sanctum Conservatum seems like a bad card to me despite what a lot of people are saying. I think 13+ is too difficult to achieve realistically by turn 8 and that just means this card will be dead in hand for so long. The point where you can get the trigger off, you have probably already won the game as a SI Control.
I am also thinking this Mono Shurima deck is a big meme. Nassus makes no sense with Renekton. We have to see the 3rd champion first of course but it's not looking too hot right now.
So we are past the half way mark now right? Seems like a pretty solid set so far. Less on rails stuff than the initial Targon launch.
SUSAN!
The cycle of life and death continues. We will live. They will die.
Tho since Slay seems built to run strong in SI, maybe "we" is generous.
We haven't seen Azir yet, right? Strongly suspect that his cards are gonna be the missing piece on Mono Shurima, since he's gonna represent the New Shuriman Empire aspect.
The cycle of life and death continues. We will live. They will die.
Tho since Slay seems built to run strong in SI, maybe "we" is generous.
We haven't seen Azir yet, right? Strongly suspect that his cards are gonna be the missing piece on Mono Shurima, since he's gonna represent the New Shuriman Empire aspect.
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any landmark that says countdown will be destroyed after performing its effect, there is the 4 mana card that will double the effects but aside from that they will only trigger once
EDIT: no clue why I responded to this twice lol, wasn't being shown the rest of the thread
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This infographic is cool, and also reflect what many of you said re: competitive meta
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Had Riot announced that ranked rewards would include prismatics before? I don't remember that, I may have tried to grind the ladder if I knew. At least to get back to Gold, shouldn't be that hard.
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Had Riot announced that ranked rewards would include prismatics before? I don't remember that, I may have tried to grind the ladder if I knew. At least to get back to Gold, shouldn't be that hard.
New Baccai cards are good, most of the non-champ stuff seems playable
Nasus (which just auto corrected to Nazis on my phone sigh) probably missing something from SI that we haven't seen, a decent finisher but his level up seems brutally tough just to get to level 2 let alone level 3
I guess I should play some ranked huh? I've actually just been chilling at Gold almost every season because the Gold icon looks the best, feels like it's never been worth going higher unless you aimed for Master
Nasus (which just auto corrected to Nazis on my phone sigh) probably missing something from SI that we haven't seen, a decent finisher but his level up seems brutally tough just to get to level 2 let alone level 3
I guess I should play some ranked huh? I've actually just been chilling at Gold almost every season because the Gold icon looks the best, feels like it's never been worth going higher unless you aimed for Master
Bear in mind that being Ascended, Nasus benefits from some of those day 1 cards... Like the one that auto levels all your Ascended Champs.
These new SI cards pushing Undying to new heights. Finally some flavorful SI deck Champions. Elise and Kalista always felt like generic strong units where as Hecarim and Thresh had more unique deck building costs. Nocturne and Maokai also fairly niche. Kindred is just a strong value SO champion that synergizes with the SI slay packages and with Nassus.
Posting this before the Seasonal tournament so as to not come off as knee jerk reaction to tournament so here are my thoughts on upcoming balance changes that Riot needs to make.
*It's pretty obvious to everyone that Aphelios and TF are a tier of their own. They are both really strong on play value champions and then if leveled accrue per turn value. In the case of Aphelios he gains per turn value even in base form. So of course they would adjust these two champions.
*In my opinion, TF by himself is balanced. Yeah on play he is pretty strong but the level up condition is actually not that easy to achieve in normal decks. His low HP means he gets killed fairly easily even though in most cases if you used a card to kill him the TF player is already ahead in terms of value. Maybe Pick a Card goes to 4 mana, that's probably the best way to directly nerf TF.
*The problem comes from the high draw package of Bilge + P&Z. A lot of super cheap ways to draw cards cards TF levels up on the next turn fairly easily. Now the easy thing to do would be to just make it harder to level up TF but that's top punishing for non Fizz TF decks. I also think the main issue isn't solved here which is that these regions have access to far efficient burst draws.
*Its apparent that Stress Testing kinda made Fizz TF a tier 0 deck. Being able to use Rummage on two Stress Tests for 4 draws is kinda disgusting. I think that card needs a serious look at. I also think Rummage itself is too strong at 1 mana which is a card that basically fixes your hand. It should be 2 mana at the least. Poro Cannon is another discard enabler that is hyper efficient. It should also go to 1 mana instead of 0 mana which has always been ludicrous with some discard synergy.
*Aphelios unlike TF is standalone too strong. You basically just have some cheap burst cards and an OP 2 drop, and you have yourself an Aphelios deck. This card wins games by itself without much additional support. I don't know how you would go about nerfing him but the Graviton double stun is kinda silly as is the 2 mana tutor card. It's also possible that Aphelios is too sturdy at 3 HP on a 3 mana backline champion who has ways to self buff and can use Veil Temple to gain stats. So I think in this case direct nerfs are in order.
*So when are they finally going to nerf Ballistic Bot to 1/2?
*Also possible that Burble Fish might be too good in specific decks.
*It's pretty obvious to everyone that Aphelios and TF are a tier of their own. They are both really strong on play value champions and then if leveled accrue per turn value. In the case of Aphelios he gains per turn value even in base form. So of course they would adjust these two champions.
*In my opinion, TF by himself is balanced. Yeah on play he is pretty strong but the level up condition is actually not that easy to achieve in normal decks. His low HP means he gets killed fairly easily even though in most cases if you used a card to kill him the TF player is already ahead in terms of value. Maybe Pick a Card goes to 4 mana, that's probably the best way to directly nerf TF.
*The problem comes from the high draw package of Bilge + P&Z. A lot of super cheap ways to draw cards cards TF levels up on the next turn fairly easily. Now the easy thing to do would be to just make it harder to level up TF but that's top punishing for non Fizz TF decks. I also think the main issue isn't solved here which is that these regions have access to far efficient burst draws.
*Its apparent that Stress Testing kinda made Fizz TF a tier 0 deck. Being able to use Rummage on two Stress Tests for 4 draws is kinda disgusting. I think that card needs a serious look at. I also think Rummage itself is too strong at 1 mana which is a card that basically fixes your hand. It should be 2 mana at the least. Poro Cannon is another discard enabler that is hyper efficient. It should also go to 1 mana instead of 0 mana which has always been ludicrous with some discard synergy.
*Aphelios unlike TF is standalone too strong. You basically just have some cheap burst cards and an OP 2 drop, and you have yourself an Aphelios deck. This card wins games by itself without much additional support. I don't know how you would go about nerfing him but the Graviton double stun is kinda silly as is the 2 mana tutor card. It's also possible that Aphelios is too sturdy at 3 HP on a 3 mana backline champion who has ways to self buff and can use Veil Temple to gain stats. So I think in this case direct nerfs are in order.
*So when are they finally going to nerf Ballistic Bot to 1/2?
*Also possible that Burble Fish might be too good in specific decks.
There's a lot more game modes to check out, including some single player stuff if you want to ease your way back in. Definitely a lot of new content since release, but funny enough I was tearing through ranked last week with a deck I made, mostly untouched since launch. haha.
Excited for Tuesday! I didn't play as much in Set 3 as I did 2...but Shurima is my jam.
I'm getting really excited for this expansion. Like someone else mentioned a few posts ago, I really have only been playing the game via labs for a couple months now, excited for a big shake up with a new region! Also man, I really love the single player lab, hope it sticks around in the rotation.
I think one aspect where LoR is designed sub-optimally is that champions literally beat followers in efficiency, and there are cards that can only target followers.
So followers are worse in efficiency, and they are also easier to remove. Champions (unleveled) should not give more value than normal units. Even champions who don't see play like Riven are just better than vanilla Badgerbear, which makes no sense. You get the best-stats unit on top of the ability, and then the level-up.
I get that the game wants to promote Legends, but overloading champions (Zoe or Aphelios) with value is not fun when you have to play against them, on top of having quite a few cards that cannot target champions. (and also having super champions in Expeditions is the same as people opening Planeswalkers in MTG Drafts)
So followers are worse in efficiency, and they are also easier to remove. Champions (unleveled) should not give more value than normal units. Even champions who don't see play like Riven are just better than vanilla Badgerbear, which makes no sense. You get the best-stats unit on top of the ability, and then the level-up.
I get that the game wants to promote Legends, but overloading champions (Zoe or Aphelios) with value is not fun when you have to play against them, on top of having quite a few cards that cannot target champions. (and also having super champions in Expeditions is the same as people opening Planeswalkers in MTG Drafts)
As I understand the text, the card you play is transformed before it hits the field so you don't get the original on play/summon effect. Could be wrong though.
We had Riot confirmation on Swim's stream today. The original card gets the summon effect but not the new transformed card. But that doesn't matter for Dreadway since it's an on going effect. That combo100% works.
Kindred & Supporting Cards:
Seems damn strong, not least for the Slay stuff. Bram getting fucked. Some speculation that all of these cards are death gods in their own right, which would be fun - the Fading Icon could be a forgotten one (maybe the Blessed Isles?) which would explain why Etherfiend is holding what looks like their skull in the full art.
And a scattering of cards that apparently don't fit in anybody's specific reveals:
Seems damn strong, not least for the Slay stuff. Bram getting fucked. Some speculation that all of these cards are death gods in their own right, which would be fun - the Fading Icon could be a forgotten one (maybe the Blessed Isles?) which would explain why Etherfiend is holding what looks like their skull in the full art.
And a scattering of cards that apparently don't fit in anybody's specific reveals:
A lot of meme cards/archetypes here but that's cool. Crimson/Marauder decks getting love is cool. Super nab combo is silly fun. Maokai combo love. Dragon Chow is adorable. Lots of really fun tier 4 design in this batch of cards.
Runeterra would be a more boring game if they were just plain units, both thematically and mechanically.
I don't think that's suboptimal design at all. They've got a high deck building trade off in that you're limited to only 6. Like that's the point, they're deck defining cards balanced around scarcity. And the fact that you can still have 3 copies means it's not like the Legendary problem in Hearthstone where they're just bomb cards that are harder to draw.
Runeterra would be a more boring game if they were just plain units, both thematically and mechanically.
Champs having certain perks that makes them more efficient hasn't been a problem with the game at all.
What has hindered followers is that cards aren't released to properly support some intended strategies while champs get way more attention on this front.
Take for example Tortured prodigy.
We didn't start feeling like we could properly make a deck until 2.5 expansions later.
Now with this upcoming expansion Ionia is getting Field musician and it is super obvious that it is immediately playable with certain existing cards despite it having a similar effect to tortured prodigy.
What has hindered followers is that cards aren't released to properly support some intended strategies while champs get way more attention on this front.
Take for example Tortured prodigy.
We didn't start feeling like we could properly make a deck until 2.5 expansions later.
Now with this upcoming expansion Ionia is getting Field musician and it is super obvious that it is immediately playable with certain existing cards despite it having a similar effect to tortured prodigy.
The alternative isnt simple units, the alternative is to maybe not give champions top tier stats if their abilities do something more.
But champs are still balanced around their stats. Deckbuilding cost is a significant drawback to the cards.
And like Twisted Fate is the best champ and his stats are garbage lol
TF lets you draw a card and returns one mana. The answer is almost always more expensive than the price of dropping TF. Same problem with Elise or Zoe: you almost always lose in value responding to them. And if you don't deal with them, game over. I don't like these binary games where if you get Zoe turn-1 Attack, it is really hard to stabilize.
I get that this is a split in design: you argue that because everyone gets 6 champion slots, those cards can exist on a different value level than the rest. Players pick which OP cards they want to build the decks around.
Yeah, the design centering around champs is one of the best parts about the game. Certain champs are overtuned right now, certain champs are undertuned, but the underlying design principles are rock solid. Always going to be some variance in a card game.
This expansion is hype. Three champs left to show!
This expansion is hype. Three champs left to show!
If Champs weren't more efficient or stronger than followers then that would be bad design. They have a 6 limit in deck which means you can't have a full deck of champions.
Also in the case of Expeditions every one is offered the same number of champions. It's not like Hearthstone draft where someone could have like 5 Legendaries and the other person could have none.
You also can't play two of the same champion on the board. Their extra copy becomes theye champion spell and that does matter quite a bit. You can of course use a champion duplication card to get multiple out but that usually has deck building cost to pull off.
Also in the case of Expeditions every one is offered the same number of champions. It's not like Hearthstone draft where someone could have like 5 Legendaries and the other person could have none.
You also can't play two of the same champion on the board. Their extra copy becomes theye champion spell and that does matter quite a bit. You can of course use a champion duplication card to get multiple out but that usually has deck building cost to pull off.
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There is nothing unintuitive about reputation. It is clunky but that's by virtue of the stat budget in this game. Shurmia by its region design doesn't have that issue.