• Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
  • We have made minor adjustments to how the search bar works on ResetEra. You can read about the changes here.

Dahbomb

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,621
This set reminds me of The Grand Tournament expansion from Hearthstone.

There were a lot of value, stat oriented cards in TGT that snowballed the game. The support/buff/daybreak cards are very similar where if you get board and keep units alive you will just beatdown the opponent. Thing is that it never actually panned out that way in HS because stats become less valuable as the game goes (and I believe Runeterra is similar in that regard) and many of the cards were expensive when played on curve (like say Taric is now or Mountain Sjourners). This meant that regular aggressive decks beat down these new cards and many of the concepts introduced in TGT never really got to shine.

Of course the main difference here is that an entire new region is being introduced which is naturally going to produce new combinations of regions never before seen which by itself should make the meta very different from what we have now. But I still can't shake the feeling that in this stat oriented, midrange meta that something like Ashe + Nox frostbite deck would still dominate or decks with over the top finishers that don't care too much about board state like Ezrael.

This is premature assessment no doubt, we haven't seen all the cards yet but this has been my take on the new cards. The Shadow Isle cards are the exception to this, however, as they promote a more aggressive style of deck or combo driven with Elusives so that at least will result in something that isn't as stat/midrange focused.
 

Totakeke

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,673
I think the Rising Tides reveal were similarly uninteresting actually. I remember not being too impressed. Deep was the standout, but other than that I don't think the other cards looked that fascinating when revealed either.
 

ZeroX

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
21,266
Speed Force
We need to see more of Targon's package to make a call on competitive viability, maybe some more Daybreak stuff but I like that she's easy to level (potentially on the turn you play her) with her very good 1 and 2 drops.

A little more cautious on the spells. They're all slow. I assume the deck is going to play out a lot like Bannerman, except with stun/overwhelm as a way to beat board presence (something midrange and Demacia struggles with outside of slowly beating them down) but as a downside you're a little more disruptable.
 

Dahbomb

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,621
Leona just seems good standalone with a not too difficult level up condition. The pay off is OK nothing obscene. The slow support cards don't seem that great but they aren't exactly awful either.

Guiding Light is fairly good. I am assuming the next Targon champion is going to be heal based.
 

Dahbomb

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,621
guiding touch is insane. 2 mana draw a card is really good.
We have Ki Guardian already in the game so it's not THAT insane however this particular effect impacts the board state more than Ki Guardian directly so its probably quite a bit better. And also presumably the next champion will be heal based so it will be more of an auto include in that type of deck.
 

Dahbomb

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,621
Sunburst is the only way to silence champions as far as I know. So it makes it particularly good against something like Braum that has been buffed up to insane numbers, Anivia, Barrier Lux/Fiora etc. Also makes it good against stuff like They Who Endure, Undying and Ledros etc. And it's the only Targon removal with synergy with Lux and Swain. Definitely a usable card.

Zenith Blade good on champions that you want perma Overwhelm on like Vi, Swain or Lee Sin. Also can proc Leona stuns over multiple turns. It's very situational though.

I don't think you main deck Morning Light but when you double draw Leona the card is fine.
 

Hassansan

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,125
Let her Out !!!

Ef9NK61WkAIfZXh

EfzZX3AU0AAojsU


(Art by Eunice Ye and Maddie)
 

Poodlestrike

Smooth vs. Crunchy
Administrator
Oct 25, 2017
13,496
Those Solari designs being so much better than Leona's actual look has me weeping. The actual card looks good though. Very strong synergy w/ Yas obvs. Her supporting cards are interesting, especially the one that trips Daybreak for everything on the board. Could be an easy finisher.

Nightfall looks weirdly like it'll be gated by how easy it is to generate the dust, tbh. Being able to basically shift one mana from spell to main is pretty strong, AND it enables Nightfall without passing priority. Nocturne ahead of curve, yes please.
 

Dahbomb

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,621
I don't think we will see much Yasuo plus Leona. Noxus is just too strong of a region for Yasuo with so much stun support (Intimidating Roar, Ravenous Flock, Arachnoid Sentry, Minotaur, Legion General, Swain/Leviathan combo etc.). They would have to print like 5 stun related cards in Targon for Yasuo to want to be in Targon.

On a side note, looking back at the cards from Bilgewater... I realized that they made Bilgewater and introduced the new cards so that everything would work with the other regions.

Shadow Isles: This one is obvious, Bilgewater enables the Deep archetype and SI got many Deep related cards. It also enabled the Keg Control archetype.
Freljord: Also obvious, Bilgewater introduced the Plunder mechanic and this gave rise to the Tempo Plunder Sejuani decks (with MF or Gankplank).
Demacia: They introduced Scouts in both Bilgewater and Demacia giving rise to the Scouts Bannerman deck type which is a more aggressive version that attacks multiple times in a turn.
Ionia: This one is trickier but it was very obvious that they wanted a spell heavy deck style with Bilgewater (like Fizz) and Ionia fits the most with it especially all the supports that Lee Sin got. This is definitely one of the weaker archetypes they introduced but you can see their design process with this.
Noxus: Introduced many control cards for Noxus as well as some burn cards. This has now given rise to two archetypes, the Pirate Burn deck as well as the Swain + TF keg deck which is a more control oriented deck.
P&Z: They introduced a lot of draw heavy, fleeting type cards in both P&Z and Bilgewater. This has given rise to stuff like the Casino Slotbot type deck though. This one is a fairly weird and quirky playstyle but Twisted Fate himself is a very strong all around card. Interesting to note that recently there has been the rise of a Deep deck that combines the heavy draw/cycle of P&Z with the Deep/draw cards of Bilgewater to create a turbo deck. Very cool concept.

I think they were mostly successful in the archetypes they set out to make with Bilgewater and the different types of archetypes.

Going by that logic, we can possibly guess some of the region combinations that they have in mind with Call of the Mountain:

Shadow Isles: This one is obvious, they very clearly want there to be a Nightfall themed deck with Targon + Shadow Isles.
Ionia: This one is also obvious, they are trying to push a tempo/support type playstyle combining Lulu and Taric.
Freljord: They are trying to push the slow, ramp big followers type archetype here however we haven't seen much support from the Targon side yet. This could be the next set of cards incoming after Diana or maybe in the next expansion.
Demacia: No cards shown yet, but I wouldn't be surprised if Demacia gets a heal archetype in combination with Soraka.
Noxus: Not sure yet but there seem to be a few overwhelm cards in Targon already and a stun card in Leona. Maybe Noxus gets the Daybreak support.
P&Z and Bilgewater: Not sure what they do here have to see their cards. Right now there is the Gem archetype that works in high spell count deck for both of these like say Gems with an Ezrael or Fizz deck.
 
Last edited:

ZeroX

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
21,266
Speed Force
The problem with Leona + Yasuo is that one of them is a great 4 drop that provides immediate value and the other isn't. Like why play Yasuo in that deck when you could just win? I actually think the deck would work and Yasuo doesn't need that much extra stun support beyond what Leona offers (cuz he's sure not leveling first but she should be stunning every turn) but it also seems to me the deck could just go midrange and win by having a stunned out board.

I also think there's going to be a point where a few regions don't really synergize naturally. There might still be decent decks but not intentionally, and that's fine. Trying to have 10 regions all have dedicated archetypes with each other would be hard.
 
Oct 27, 2017
6,960
Yeah, right now, it seems like ever-expanding regions might be a problem.

While I like games which follow and build around the lore, but balancing the core design aspect (colors) around the lore's regions is probably going to lead to worse design outcome.

Plus the future expansions are going to have even fewer cards per region, not great for the type of players who don't want to have variety in decks, but instead, focus on their color or champion.
 

ZeroX

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
21,266
Speed Force
Yeah, right now, it seems like ever-expanding regions might be a problem.

While I like games which follow and build around the lore, but balancing the core design aspect (colors) around the lore's regions is probably going to lead to worse design outcome.

Plus the future expansions are going to have even fewer cards per region, not great for the type of players who don't want to have variety in decks, but instead, focus on their color or champion.
It's not a problem. Other games have added separate colors/archetypes/teams whatever you want to call it. The static Magic colors isn't the only approach that works. Hell, Hearthstone's at 10 classes and that's had no issues. VS System added four teams (regions) per expansion.

The idea of keeping the regions balanced in card offerings and all 'equally' viable with each other will come to an end, but that's fine. There's still plenty of variety when adding a new region. If there's 12 regions and each of them works well 8 others that's still a gigantic amount of potential combinations.

Because of dual regions every expansion is adding new cards for everyone. If you want to stick to a region you can, you can still play with other region's stuff.
 
Oct 27, 2017
6,960
It's not a problem. Other games have added separate colors/archetypes/teams whatever you want to call it. The static Magic colors isn't the only approach that works. Hell, Hearthstone's at 10 classes and that's had no issues. VS System added four teams (regions) per expansion.

The idea of keeping the regions balanced in card offerings and all 'equally' viable with each other will come to an end, but that's fine. There's still plenty of variety when adding a new region. If there's 12 regions and each of them works well 8 others that's still a gigantic amount of potential combinations.

Because of dual regions every expansion is adding new cards for everyone. If you want to stick to a region you can, you can still play with other region's stuff.

How popular are mono classes in HS?

Demacia is still there, but it does feel like LoR favors dual-color decks. Perhaps a few more Allegiance based cards to up the power levels for those who don't splash anything, I don't know. Even things like Grifter are ok value when you miss the Allegiance.
 

ZeroX

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
21,266
Speed Force
How popular are mono classes in HS?

Demacia is still there, but it does feel like LoR favors dual-color decks. Perhaps a few more Allegiance based cards to up the power levels for those who don't splash anything, I don't know. Even things like Grifter are ok value when you miss the Allegiance.
You have to play mono in Hearthstone, although they added dual-class cards.

Even with allegiance there's basically no reason to play full mono. There's essentially no drawback to splashing a couple of really strong cards from another region. I think if a deck was actually viable completely mono than that region is probably a little overtuned.
 

ZeroX

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
21,266
Speed Force
Pale Cascade is a good cantrip

Hush is another potential Champion silence, I guess they decided that silence is okay on champs as long as it's temporary
 

Dahbomb

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,621
Silencing Champions is fairly big.

Nightfall has some great spells while some fairly mediocre units. Diana is good though and her champion spell is very strong.

Poro Cannon is actually really good too. Playable in many various types of decks.
 

Totakeke

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,673
I think they're underestimating the "this round" thing. With more unit protection spells, protecting a champion for a turn isn't that bad. Most of them also like playing combo OTK decks which that card can easily disrupt though.
 

Dahbomb

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,621
I missed it but when I first heard Swims impression on it he said it was a fine card, meta dependent. So I am curious to see what made him change his mind on it.
 

ZeroX

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
21,266
Speed Force
I didn't watch the stream - will catch it on YouTube - but I assume it's because you can basically burst shut down any combo deck in the game. It maybe isn't tier one but it could potentially annihilate a bunch of archetypes by being an otherwise average tech card (unlike that new 3 cost summon killing spell which counters only a few things and is completely dead otherwise)

we also need clarification on how silence works in regards to champ level up, etc
 

Totakeke

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,673
I haven't liked the Karma Lux and Ezreal metas and I don't ever see Ezreal going away until this card, but it's also fun to watch streamers do OTK combos for most people.

When Whimsy was revealed, the dev clarified in swim's stream that silencing this round just means it's hidden for this round. So I assume everything reverts to its previous state.
 

Dahbomb

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,621
I haven't liked the Karma Lux and Ezreal metas and I don't ever see Ezreal going away until this card, but it's also fun to watch streamers do OTK combos for most people.

When Whimsy was revealed, the dev clarified in swim's stream that silencing this round just means it's hidden for this round. So I assume everything reverts to its previous state.
Yeah they revert to previous state including buffs in the case of Whimsy.
 

Dahbomb

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,621
So Invoke is like Discover from Hearthstone but it only gives you choice of Invoke cards.

Swim is saying that Celestial cards are not main deckable and can only be Invoked. The 0 mana burst card reduces a card in hand cost by 1 presumably. Which if main deckable would be pretty insane especially for the Nightfall cards but since it is Invoke only, you won't have guaranteed access to it.
 
Oct 27, 2017
6,960
Most keywords in this Expansion feel basic.

Play first card, play second card, pick a card, generate a card. Kind of wish we had something a bit more complex.
 

Dahbomb

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,621
We will probably keep seeing standard/basic keywords until they have finished releasing all the regions. They want to make sure the core of the different regions are easy to get into and understand, then after that they can start putting in crazier effects.

Next card revealed: 0 mana 2/1 Challenger (Celestial)

Yeah the Celestial cards are definitely meant to be overpowered cards you can only get through Invoking. Similar to Shipwreck Hoarder but not as extreme.
 
Last edited:

LightBang

Member
Mar 16, 2018
1,423
I agree the keywords aren't the most exciting, hoping the release plan doesn't bite them in the ass.
Second expansion and they're only releasing eighty-something cards, which most are "basic effects". Meta might not shake much and experimentation will be limited, could be a uneventful release.

Really think they should have tried out this schedule after a few more "bulky" expansions under their belts.
 

Dahbomb

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,621
Damn are we really going to get 24 Celestial cards today? lol

1 mana 4/1 Overwhelm Celestial revealed.