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Nov 7, 2017
1,476
That's not accurate. He met Jimmy in California at a Pepsi shoot. He met Wade in Australia.
Brett Barnes, another boy, was Australian - Wade mentions it in part one.

One of the worst moments that showed he had full knowledge of what he was doing was when the mother recalled him saying "I always get what I want". Literally arguing with the mother of a 7 year old to force him to stay with him for a year against her wishes. FUCKED UP. He was a monster.
 

metalslimer

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
9,565
Y'know, it's interesting to me. People who defend MJ have no problem attacking the victims themselves and pointing out inconsistencies in their testimony and all that. But yet, they seem much more reluctant/hesitant to directly attack the parents and tend to mostly stay away from that when you would think, using their logic, that if anything would make their cases stronger--that the parents are terrible, so it only makes "sense" that their kids are terrible and are just liars, etc, etc, etc.

And I've been trying to make sense of that, why they mostly stay away from that for the most part and try to keep the spotlight on the victims and their "lies." And that too has just clicked for me. Because they might not realize it themselves, not consciously at least, but attacking the victims in such away would actually just reveal just how devious MJ was about all this, and how guilty he was.

Because, just thinking about it, it only makes sense the parents would be exactly like those individuals. As if hey were good parents, they would have kept their kids far, far away from MJ. It adds credence to the victims' stories that their parents are in fact just like that, because if they were just good parents, it would just raise questions about how they let all this happen in the first place, if they're such good people. That they're not, that they're who they appear to be instead is perfectly consistent and makes perfect sense.

And more than anything else, it makes perfect sense that those are exactly the type of parents that MJ would be on the hunt for and prey on to get access to kids in the first place. As anyone not like them would have noped the fuck out of there. MJ clearly knew exactly what to look for, exactly what to prey on, exactly the type of weaknesses to capitalize on to get access to these kids to begin with. Just like with the kids themselves, it's quite clear that MJ had a "type" when it came to parents as well to maximize his chances of getting access to these kids in the first place.

And that's why most of the defenders direct most of their ire to the "lies" of the victims and kids, because even if they don't realize it consciously, even if they don't exactly know why they're so hesitant to pile on to the parents too much to try and help "strengthen" their case of MJ's "innocence," it's because whether they realize it or not, doing so would make MJ just look that much more devious and guilty, because it directly raises a fundamental question that's certainly at the heart of this and goes overlooked a lot: what exact type of parents would let all this happen to begin with, what type of parents wouldn't see all the alarm bells or would hear them but ignore them anyway, what type of parents would let their children get anywhere close to MJ the first place?

One's exactly for those, for exactly for the types of reasons that are mentioned/heavily implied in the documentary, and who they reveal themselves to be, through both their actions and inactions and personality and just everything about them. It makes perfect sense that that would be what they would be like, and that MJ would prey on exactly those type of parents to get access to these kids in the first place, and the more they attack the parents if anything the more obvious they would make that. And that's why, even if they don't realize it themselves, that's why they can't attack the parents too strongly themselves because these individuals being terrible, terrible parents only makes MJ look that much more guilty, not less, and so that's why they have to at least kinda-sorta avoid treading on that too much, and I just can't believe all of this is just clicking so much now myself, because it all just makes so much sense and there's just no other way I can see it now. You just can't make that up and fake that stuff, not to that level, not across multiple incidents, it being the same-pattern and same tell-tale signs. It all points to one thing, MJ's guilt, and that's why they have to stay away from that whether they themselves realize it in those terms or not.

Completely spot on
 

Laserdisk

Banned
May 11, 2018
8,942
UK
Everything ever made is meant to manipulate. What the fuck does that have to do with anything? Two men are telling the story of how they were raped by a famous popstar. Their families are there to add context. If you feel manipulated negatively by that, then you went into it wanting to not like whatever it was that was going to be presented.
No, I was talking about film making.
I dont feel anyway but it was brought up that that was good film making, its not.
 

stupei

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,801
No, I was talking about film making.
I dont feel anyway but it was brought up that that was good film making, its not.

You're wrong, though.

Good filmmaking evokes an emotion. The emotion you should feel when hearing two men describe the destruction of their childhood and innocence is revulsion and the use of music was clearly intended to highlight and further deepen that feeling.

Good filmmaking uses both sound and image to accompany the meaning. Bad filmmaking would have been to deliberately not make full use of all of the tools of the medium to accompany and accentuate the heartbreaking tale these boys are telling; it would have been a betrayal of their pain to leave it entirely sterile so that some random on a message board could applaud them for being utterly "objective" when working in a medium that is never intended to be experienced that way.

For some reason you point to Louis Theroux, who engages in an entirely different style of documentary journalism than what is clearly being done here, and otherwise just keep doubling down on "that's bad" without any explanation of your understanding of the craft you seem to think you're an expert on.

All filmmaking is manipulative. The juxtaposition of images is intended to convey meaning by burning a reflection of light onto repeated still frames that give our brain the illusion of movement. The craft is, by its very nature, a manipulation of your senses. You've repeated your criticism so many times already in this thread, I would hope you could evolve to some kind of nuance that would allow you to describe what you dislike using language that could not simply apply to the medium as a whole. And yet.
 

Deleted member 283

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,288
No, I was talking about film making.
I dont feel anyway but it was brought up that that was good film making, its not.
I must ask again, since you didn't answer, you brought up earlier in the thread that you hadn't watched the documentary yet. Had that changed? How would you even know unless you've watched it yourself? Why would you comment on that? Why are you inserting yourself into this conversation in the first place?

And why is this a type of manipulation you care about anyway regardless? You haven't said much about MJ's manipulation in this thread, yet this gets post after post after post from you. Why is this what you focus on? Why is that what gets you to respond, in a way little else has? Why do you clearly care so much more about this music than anything that MJ did, and none of the comments about MJ's actions get much out of you, but this music, that's when suddenly manipulation matters and you go on for post after post after post about it? That you comment on this, but are silent on all the types of manipulation MJ did that get brought up in the documentary... I can't make sense of your priorities here, especially with you being so evasive the entire thread when there's absolutely no reason to be so if you're intentions are pure and these questions are indeed genuine.
 

Laserdisk

Banned
May 11, 2018
8,942
UK
I must ask again, since you didn't answer, you brought up earlier in the thread that you hadn't watched the documentary yet. Had that changed? How would you even know unless you've watched it yourself? Why would you comment on that? Why are you inserting yourself into this conversation in the first place?

And why is this a type of manipulation you care about anyway regardless? You haven't said much about MJ's manipulation in this thread, yet this gets post after post after post from you. Why is this what you focus on? Why is that what gets you to respond, in a way little else has? Why do you clearly care so much more about this music than anything that MJ did, and none of the comments about MJ's actions get much out of you, but this music, that's when suddenly manipulation matters and you go on for post after post after post about it? That you comment on this, but are silent on all the types of manipulation MJ did that get brought up in the documentary... I can't make sense of your priorities here, especially with you being so evasive the entire thread when there's absolutely no reason to be so if you're intentions are pure and these questions are indeed genuine.

Seen the first half, HBO version

You're wrong, though.

Good filmmaking evokes an emotion. The emotion you should feel when hearing two men describe the destruction of their childhood and innocence is revulsion and the use of music was clearly intended to highlight and further deepen that feeling.

Good filmmaking uses both sound and image to accompany the meaning. Bad filmmaking would have been to deliberately not make full use of all of the tools of the medium to accompany and accentuate the heartbreaking tale these boys are telling; it would have been a betrayal of their pain to leave it entirely sterile so that some random on a message board could applaud them for being utterly "objective" when working in a medium that is never intended to be experienced that way.

For some reason you point to Louis Theroux, who engages in an entirely different style of documentary journalism than what is clearly being done here, and otherwise just keep doubling down on "that's bad" without any explanation of your understanding of the craft you seem to think you're an expert on.

All filmmaking is manipulative. The juxtaposition of images is intended to convey meaning by burning a reflection of light onto repeated still frames that give our brain the illusion of movement. The craft is, by its very nature, a manipulation of your senses. You've repeated your criticism so many times already in this thread, I would hope you could evolve to some kind of nuance that would allow you to describe what you dislike using language that could not simply apply to the medium as a whole. And yet.
So I need music underneath their descriptions to envoke an emotion?
Their descriptions alone didn't do it for you?
And where did I say I was an expert, you can say its good and I can say its bad thats how the world works.
 

stupei

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,801
Seen the first half, HBO version


So I need music underneath their descriptions to envoke an emotion?
Their descriptions alone didn't do it for you?
And where did I say I was an expert, you can say its good and I can say its bad thats how the world works.

The only thing you've felt like contributing to this thread is how it's indisputably bad filmmaking. I would have to assume you're some kind of expert or have some very elaborate thoughts on the subject to keep repeating yourself over and over, and yet you don't care to elaborate at all.

I can say it's good filmmaking because I have even a beginner's level understanding of the craft and I'm also willing to elaborate on my thoughts. If I care enough to share a perspective on a message board with total strangers, I usually actually have something to say about it and put in minimal effort to explain what I mean so a conversation can happen.

You don't need music to evoke emotion, but it increases and accentuates it, certainly. Some people are more empathetic than others. If you want your entire audience to grasp a concept, you use every tool available. You do not needlessly limit yourself because someone might for some reason think is disingenuous to use appropriate sound to accompany the stories being told.

In film, even documentary film, stark silence tends to be so outside our expectations that it often makes viewers uncomfortable, even though it is closer to reality. This is especially true in sit down interview formats where we are removed from the nat sound of moments captured live. We expect music here because we see that these interviews have been arranged, sat down, constructed. When there is silence, it feels deliberate, and we have an emotional response to that in contrast with the extremely clean audio of the lav mic. We are "manipulated," I suppose you must think, into feeling something and often that feeling can be uncomfortable and might impact the viewer's reading of the individual and their story.

At times, silence is useful as it can help accentuate the moment and allow the viewer to really listen to what's being said, but it does often create an intimacy that can become uncomfortable if prolonged.

That's why utter silence really only works if it is used sparingly. Otherwise, music is absolutely necessary, not to manipulate but because that's how filmmaking works and meets the audience expectations of basic media literacy.

What sort of music would you suggest would have been more appropriate to accompany a story of innocence lost? Should it have been stirring and heroic strings? A bit of drums? Would a sad piano have pushed it too far for you too? What music could have been present in the film and not seemed "manipulative" to you?
 

Kyuuji

The Favonius Fox
Member
Nov 8, 2017
32,155
So I need music underneath their descriptions to envoke an emotion?
Their descriptions alone didn't do it for you?
And where did I say I was an expert, you can say its good and I can say its bad thats how the world works.
DistantIdleAlligator-max-1mb.gif


You ignore the replies highlighting your bullshit persisting in contributing "they manipulated me with the music" with little else.

It's transparent, yet you continue to smugly post as if you actually have some sort of your merit in your perspective. You rode the angle that the music was manipulative and gave the viewer a sense of loss of innocence that allegedly isn't there, and now that you're being called out for making zero sense you're running with this "so you needed music huh?" line.

In the thread about the Simpsons episode being pulled your concern was "where will it end" and decided to hand-wring about the loss of art in a situation where a creator/owner is restricting their own product for their own reasons.

In here you're concerned about filmmaking and that sad music was used as a backdrop to a story about child abuse and how that's somehow manipulating viewers into feeling something that isn't apparent.

Let's be straight, you don't give a shit about the victims shown in this.

Your overarching concerns and "but what about" points having seen the documentary are that a cartoon episode being pulled might suddenly be the death of art and that sad music was used to convey an emotion of loss of innocence in a documentary on child abuse.
 
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Oct 27, 2017
730
Watched this yesterday and goddamn if this doesn't confirm my suspicions about one of my musical idols. Michael Jackson clearly was a serial abuser and a pedophile. I had suspected as much since seeing the weird Bashir documentary but this has 100% confirmed my feelings. The man clearly had a modus operandi and groomed these kids to perfection. I believe he picked the most vulnerable, the most easy to be groomed, the ones that essentially deified the man, and the ones with parents who had caught celebrity shock.

The man slept with little children in his room which legitimately had an early warning system for potential unwanted incursions into his nighttime activities. I mean you could end it there, but we actually have testimony from several different boys including but not limited to Safechuck and Robson as to the proceedings in that bedroom. They all make claims to the exact same sort of predatory behavior, grooming, and testing of personal boundaries. I don't believe they were the first or the last in the chain of abuse and Michael already had a clear strategy in place before ever encountering these boys.

I also believe Safechuck and Robson when they say it took decades to fully comprehend the abuse that had taken place. People itt & in general seem to disregard that these were formative sexual experiences for Safechuck & Robson and Michael was a skilled manipulator with a tremendous amount of social influence. Maybe they felt like they wanted it, like they loved Michael, like it was a normal relationship but that's clearly what Michael groomed them to think.

The whole slumber party excuse is interesting because I believe slumber parties are almost a natural framework for sexual self discovery in young people. I had my first sexual experiences at a slumber party but it wasn't at the hands of a man 15y+ my senior. When Robson described his first forays into doing sexual stuff with Michael I was struck by how devious the way Michael operated was. He deftly inserted himself into a situation that when viewed in the context of a kid experimenting sexually with his peers is actually fairly normal, but when it's Michael Jackson and a 7y old boy there is nothing normal about it.

As for the Jackson family defense, I'm like 99% sure key figures within the Jackson family knew about this, are complicit in covering it up, and are essentially trying to continue this charade because it's the only sensible decision for them. The entire Jackson families legacy is inextricably bound to Michael and if he falls they all fall. So excuse me if I don't take Taj Jackson's vehement defense as conclusive proof that Michael isn't a serial kiddy diddler. As for Brett Barnes & co I wouldn't be surprised if they're simply showcasing the exact same grooming that led to Wade categorically denying the sexual assault at trial.

Michael was a serial abuser, it's pretty cut and dry at this point. In hindsight, it should have been obvious that a man, who was routinely photographed with a literal stable of young boys he had nebulous relationships with, was a serial pedophile.
 
Last edited:
Oct 27, 2017
3,483
Janet Jackson exists and she might be more respected than he was even if he was more popular.
I was thinking how strange it is that there was a massive furore over Janet exposing a breast on television that you couldn't even see in the broadcast. She had to make a public apology because "won't somebody please think of the children!" Yet Michael was openly sharing a bed with children and some people will mentally contort themselves into justifying it as innocent.
 

Megasoum

Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,567
Watched the whole thing over the weekend... Ooof...

I think that what pissed me off the most (other than the abuse itself obviously) are all those crowds defending him at the trials.

Fandom is a fucked up thing... Like even if you believed him to be innocent at the time, why the fuck would you go protest and harass the accusers...

I was thinking how strange it is that there was a massive furore over Janet exposing a breast on television that you couldn't even see in the broadcast. She had to make a public apology because "won't somebody please think of the children!" Yet Michael was openly sharing a bed with children and some people will mentally contort themselves into justifying it as innocent.

'Murica
 

MazeHaze

Member
Nov 1, 2017
8,579
We always say believe victims but this is sketchy. Compared to the R Kelly the documentary lacked depth. We'll never know the truth unfortunately
I dunno how anyone can watch James speak about this and conclude he's lying. Dude would have to be one of the best actors of all time. Sounds like you read someone else's hot take who also didn't watch it.
 

Shy

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
18,520
Don't get me started on the dove lady ughhhhh
LMAO.

I remember her from back when the trial was happening.
What was she going to do with the doves if he was found guilty?
😱
-21 posts despite account being created over a year ago

-Anime avatar

We have a wiener, ladies and germs.
What gets me about these fucking cowards is ..... Well they're cowards, and won't come back after the first post.
 
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synapsidal

Member
Oct 25, 2017
102
Janet Jackson exists and she might be more respected than he was even if he was more popular.
I've been thinking a lot about Janet too. She's one of my favorite artists of all time, she hasn't need the Jackson family for success or money since she was a teenager. She has claimed she went years without seeing Michael in person in the 90s because of how busy she was. I would like to believe she's completely unaware of his behavior but in the back of my mind I'm worried she does have some doubts about his innocence and just wants to protect the family. She'll probably stay quiet again because she has a Vegas residency to promote.

The part that conflicts me with Janet though is that she's been pretty outspoken about her own abuse over the years. I think it would just be too hard for her to process the reality of the situation so she's never gone down that path.
 

Aiii

何これ
Member
Oct 24, 2017
8,190
I've been thinking a lot about Janet too. She's one of my favorite artists of all time, she hasn't need the Jackson family for success or money since she was a teenager. She has claimed she went years without seeing Michael in person in the 90s because of how busy she was. I would like to believe she's completely unaware of his behavior but in the back of my mind I'm worried she does have some doubts about his innocence and just wants to protect the family. She'll probably stay quiet again because she has a Vegas residency to promote.

The part that conflicts me with Janet though is that she's been pretty outspoken about her own abuse over the years. I think it would just be too hard for her to process the reality of the situation so she's never gone down that path.
I feel judging family members for the crimes of their family members is hardly ever a good thing. Of course there are exceptions when the family members are complicit or have a causal relation to the crime. But as a general rule, I think it's not a good thing to look at someone's sister and go "well they should have known, right?" because how would you?

I certainly don't know everything about my brother's and how they spend their lives, how they treat their SO's, or even their Tinder dates. Let alone would I know about things they really wouldn't want anyone to know about. There's no reason to assume someone like Janet would know anything more about this than you and I and I feel that should be the default position.
 

Deleted member 12790

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Oct 27, 2017
24,537
I feel judging family members for the crimes of their family members is hardly ever a good thing. Of course there are exceptions when the family members are complicit or have a causal relation to the crime. But as a general rule, I think it's not a good thing to look at someone's sister and go "well they should have known, right?" because how would you?

I certainly don't know everything about my brother's and how they spend their lives, how they treat their SO's, or even their Tinder dates. Let alone would I know about things they really wouldn't want anyone to know about. There's no reason to assume someone like Janet would know anything more about this than you and I and I feel that should be the default position.

I mean, it's very likely the Jackson family knew about all this. Here's a video of Latoya Jackson breaking with her family and saying she believes Michael Jackson abused children:



She was estranged from her family when she made these claims. Since then, her family has reunited with her, and she has recanted the interview. Hhhhhmmmmmmmm.....
 

Psittacus

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,933
Trying to attack the documentary is foolish. Even if it were proved 100% false tomorrow, there was already enough smoke to kick this process off. You see it a lot, things percolating for years or decades before it hits critical mass and the consequences finally stick.
 

HeavenlyE

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,800
I mean, it's very likely the Jackson family knew about all this. Here's a video of Latoya Jackson breaking with her family and saying she believes Michael Jackson abused children:



She was estranged from her family when she made these claims. Since then, her family has reunited with her, and she has recanted the interview. Hhhhhmmmmmmmm.....

Sorry this is a really shitty thing to insinuate and pretty strongly goes against the believe victims motto this place has

You're acting as if she reunited with them and mysteriously changed her story, no she spoke out on the physical abuse her husband put her through (which was widely known as she'd constantly be photographed by paparazzi with bruises on her face) and the times he forced her to dance at strip clubs, do nude photo shoots and make up stories about her family for money, after breaking free she sued him and won
 
Oct 27, 2017
7,466
No, I was talking about film making.
I dont feel anyway but it was brought up that that was good film making, its not.
It was in fact great filmmaking. The contrast of the Disney-esque music with the awful description of events was incredibly evocative. Much like the vibe Michael gave off was one of fun and excitement, but underneath he was a literal monster.
 

Qikz

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,488
Well this is fucked up. I never wanted to believe that he was capable of this, because while MJ always seemed to be completely fucked in the head I always blamed it on the fact he was abused as a kid and never really had a childhood. I guess I bought into the whole Peter Pan thing of him just being a kid stuck in an adults body.

I haven't watched the documentary, but I mean reading about it this is pretty much a clear cut case. It's incredibly sad, because there's so many victims over so many years and nothing was ever done about it. Same thing with Jimmy Saville in the UK. He was weird, but he was a national hero. It was only after his death all the truths about what he'd done came out.
 

Deleted member 12790

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
24,537
Sorry this is a really shitty thing to insinuate and pretty strongly goes against the believe victims motto this place has

You're acting as if she reunited with them and mysteriously changed her story, no she spoke out on the physical abuse her husband put her through (which was widely known as she'd constantly be photographed by paparazzi with bruises on her face) and the times he forced her to dance at strip clubs, do nude photo shoots and make up stories about her family for money, after breaking free she sued him and won

This is such a dumb attempt at a "gotcha." Nothing I said "goes against believing victims." LaToya Jackson absolutely was abused by both her father and former husband, but if you watch the damn video posted, nothing she says comes from her husband. Her husband didn't plant the idea that Jackson slept with boys for 30 days straight, which she cites as being part of the basis of her opinion on Jackson.
 

HeavenlyE

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,800
This is such a dumb attempt at a "gotcha." Nothing I said "goes against believing victims." LaToya Jackson absolutely was abused by both her father and former husband, but if you watch the damn video posted, nothing she says comes from her husband. Her husband didn't plant the idea that Jackson slept with boys for 30 days straight, which she cites as being part of the basis of her opinion on Jackson.
Wasn't going for a "gotcha"

The press conference was arranged by her husband and she was given a written statement to read
 

Deleted member 12790

User requested account closure
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Oct 27, 2017
24,537
Wasn't going for a "gotcha"

You totally were

The press conference was arranged by her husband and she was given a written statement to read

And here you are stripping her of any agency as a person. It's after she reunited with her family, the same family that is fighting for jackson's sustained commercial success,' that she claimed she was given a script to read. Yet what she says in the interview is all corroborated claims from outside investigations, things that even Jackson say happened.

Again, her husband didn't implant the idea that Jackson slept with boys for 30 days straight. That comes straight from Michael Jackson.

Also worth noting she did NOT recant the entire thing. The claims that she recants "specifically seeing him in bed with boys" but not seeing checks for repayment. At 62, she still claims she has seen checks from Jackson to his victims.
 

HeavenlyE

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,800
You totally were



And here you are stripping her of any agency as a person. It's after she reunited with her family, the same family that is fighting for jackson's sustained commercial success,' that she claimed she was given a script to read. Yet what she says in the interview is all corroborated claims from outside investigations, things that even Jackson say happened.

Again, her husband didn't implant the idea that Jackson slept with boys for 30 days straight. That comes straight from Michael Jackson.
I'm stripping her of any agency as a person? you're claiming she's fucking in on it and is now denying the allegations to stay in favor of the estate. I would expect the claims to be corroborated considering the allegations were made public 4 months prior and there were already numerous leaks from tabloids

My posts are in defense of Latoya/Jackson Family and the fact that you think the family are in the know and hiding it anyway, I'm not commenting on Michael
 

Ebullientprism

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,529
That "can I speak to your manager" lady in the jury saying she didnt believe the victim's mom because she "snapped her fingers at me". Jesus fucking christ. I felt like punching the monitor.
 

Air

User-Requested Ban
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Oct 25, 2017
1,262
Just two things:

There's a follow-up article with Terry George about Michael calling him and apologizing to him about the incident (he also talks about other stuff).

There's also an hour long interview with Brandi Jackson discussing Wade. She talks about their personal life, and other stuff. Interestingly she also claims that when MJ died, Wade's mom called her and said that MJ's kids should be under her care.

I just want to put this stuff out there (not as a means to debunk anything, but to make a bigger picture and get insight from other people). You can believe it or not. I'm not sure myself yet
 
Oct 27, 2017
4,291
Nottingham, UK
Just two things:

There's a follow-up article with Terry George about Michael calling him and apologizing to him about the incident (he also talks about other stuff).

There's also an hour long interview with Brandi Jackson discussing Wade. She talks about their personal life, and other stuff. Interestingly she also claims that when MJ died, Wade's mom called her and said that MJ's kids should be under her care.

I just want to put this stuff out there (not as a means to debunk anything, but to make a bigger picture and get insight from other people). You can believe it or not. I'm not sure myself yet
You want to put these things out there but aren't going to actually link them?
 

Air

User-Requested Ban
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Oct 25, 2017
1,262
You want to put these things out there but aren't going to actually link them?

I can if you want, but my phone sucks, and I wasn't sure if people in the thread would be interested in it. Brandi was brought up earlier and I dont't think there was much care about what she wanted to say. The link to the talk is on mediate.com, she also links it on her Twitter.

The Terry George article is on the Sun website i think. Its from 2009 or something
 
Oct 27, 2017
7,466
Just two things:

There's a follow-up article with Terry George about Michael calling him and apologizing to him about the incident (he also talks about other stuff).

There's also an hour long interview with Brandi Jackson discussing Wade. She talks about their personal life, and other stuff. Interestingly she also claims that when MJ died, Wade's mom called her and said that MJ's kids should be under her care.

I just want to put this stuff out there (not as a means to debunk anything, but to make a bigger picture and get insight from other people). You can believe it or not. I'm not sure myself yet
The apology is an admission of guilt. He never changed other than becoming richer and more calculating.
 

Air

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Oct 25, 2017
1,262
The apology is an admission of guilt. He never changed other than becoming richer and more calculating.

The phone call according to Terry was 3 months before MJ died. According to Terry, MJ apologized and said he didn't hurt children, Terry also said he had believed him or something. I read it yesterday but can't remember the entire thing.
 

Air

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Oct 25, 2017
1,262
Because it was a tweet from her saying that since she and Wade were together he couldn't have been abused.

Yeah, I can understand that. I just wanted to put it out there that she's elaborated on her comments in that interview if anyone is interested. Like saI'd, I'm still not sure what to make of it, but it helps fill out the world. For what it's worth, she herself doesns't seem mad at the director, she thinks he probably wasn't told about her
 
Oct 27, 2017
7,466
The phone call according to Terry was 3 months before MJ died. According to Terry, MJ apologized and said he didn't hurt children, Terry also said he had believed him or something. I read it yesterday but can't remember the entire thing.
So we're supposed to believe the incident with Terry was a one-off mistake?
 

Big One

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,277
The phone call according to Terry was 3 months before MJ died. According to Terry, MJ apologized and said he didn't hurt children, Terry also said he had believed him or something. I read it yesterday but can't remember the entire thing.
It's common for pedophiles to view their abuse as consensual sex and not harmful in any way.
 

Air

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Oct 25, 2017
1,262
So we're supposed to believe the incident with Terry was a one-off mistake?

I'm not going to tell you what to believe. But that the story didn't end with what happened in 1979. I'm not going to be mad at anyone who thinks he's a paedophile. There's certainly enough there on the surface to make that call, but I just think that the who situation and timeframe are interesting, and want to get as much information as possible about it.

It's common for pedophiles to view their abuse as consensual sex and not harmful in any way.

Yea, I agree and understand that.
 
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