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Leaving Neverland, HBO documentary on Michael Jackson's alleged child sexual assaults, review thread: Currently 94% on Rotten Tomatoes
- Thread starter Brian McDoogle
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Anyone insisting on defending this monster without having watched the documentary deserves to be banned, straight up. It's, objectively, bad faith argumentation to go to bat or this dude in willful ignorance of the available evidence.
The thing that hit me the most was when James said he and Michael had a mock up wedding ceremony and even has rings that fitted his hand as a child. My jaw literally hit the floor.
Watching James talk there are moments where you could tell he is still living with mental scars that his abuse has left with him.
We'll never know the full story but Leaving Neverland has shown that there was a plenty of opportunity's for MJ to molest these children. I can't wrap my head round how people can defend him when he WAS sleeping in bed with young boys and he even admitted it. I have no doubt that something did happen and he was sexually attracted to young boys, he absolutely had a thing for them. To much smoke there and he even had a book with pictures of young boys naked.
It's such a shame as I when was growing up MJ was a mega star and I can remember listening to his new songs on the radio and taping them. I wasn't a mega fan but from now on I'll have to separate MJ as a performer/singer/artist and MJ as a human with his failings and attraction to young boys.
I felt sorry for the Wade family when his Dad committed suicide, his family leaving left him devastated and I don't think he ever got over that.
MJ not only groomed these children but also the families to gain there trust and get closer to the children.
Watching James talk there are moments where you could tell he is still living with mental scars that his abuse has left with him.
We'll never know the full story but Leaving Neverland has shown that there was a plenty of opportunity's for MJ to molest these children. I can't wrap my head round how people can defend him when he WAS sleeping in bed with young boys and he even admitted it. I have no doubt that something did happen and he was sexually attracted to young boys, he absolutely had a thing for them. To much smoke there and he even had a book with pictures of young boys naked.
It's such a shame as I when was growing up MJ was a mega star and I can remember listening to his new songs on the radio and taping them. I wasn't a mega fan but from now on I'll have to separate MJ as a performer/singer/artist and MJ as a human with his failings and attraction to young boys.
I felt sorry for the Wade family when his Dad committed suicide, his family leaving left him devastated and I don't think he ever got over that.
MJ not only groomed these children but also the families to gain there trust and get closer to the children.
User banned (1 week): drive-by trolling in a sensitive topic
Seems the court of public opinion have had their say.
Maybe articulate your issues with their testimony instead of eye-rolling everything.
This is exactly what all his defenders said during the 2003-4 stuff and before. "He has the most purest and kindest heart he would never do that." "He never had a childhood and is still just a wonderful boy at heart." "It's all about the money there are people who want to use him." It's like taking a time machine 15 years back.
Lmao I needed this laugh with how dark this thread makes me feel. I'll never understand how gaming side operates.
They said the same shit during the on in the early 90s, too.
Funny how that shit works, in'it.
"people who are having a hard time understanding or processing a harrowing story"
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I lump assholes who defend and excuse child molestation with fascists as people who don't deserve to have an opinion. If you don't, that's on you.
One thing that doesn't quite carry as much weight when it's written or said by most people in conversation is "he slept in the same bed as underage boys." This needs to from now on be elaborated on.
He slept in the same bed hundreds of times with several little boys. He spent tons of his free time hanging out with underage boys when he was fucking 29. He would invite them to stay in his room overnight as if that was remotely normal. He would call everyday underage boys and send the weirdest fucking faxes. He would touch underage boys in camera in a weirdly overly friendly way. In general just oddly obsessed with underage boys and spending time with them as "special friends."
He slept in the same bed hundreds of times with several little boys. He spent tons of his free time hanging out with underage boys when he was fucking 29. He would invite them to stay in his room overnight as if that was remotely normal. He would call everyday underage boys and send the weirdest fucking faxes. He would touch underage boys in camera in a weirdly overly friendly way. In general just oddly obsessed with underage boys and spending time with them as "special friends."
Yeah, one would think the normal, healthy response to not having a childhood of your own would be to do everything in your power to ensure that your children do have a childhood.
Molesting children and living in a perpetual state of arrested development is not the normal, healthy response.
Molesting children and living in a perpetual state of arrested development is not the normal, healthy response.
I've only watched the first part so far. It's really hard not to believe these guys. Jackson came off as being weird and a creep for years before he died so it's not terribly surprising. I feel really bad for the guys. And fuck Jackson. Sick fuck.
Whats the correct order to watch this, Leaving Neverland and then the Oprah interview or the other way around?
Going to my cousins house that has HBO Now and want to be sure.
I remember reading about it on the early 2000. I was 13-14 at the time, and I was surprised people kept saying that "he's a kid at heart" or "they just want money". Like come on, who would believe a stranger was just having sleepover with lots of kids without anything sketchy going on?
Going to my cousins house that has HBO Now and want to be sure.
I remember reading about it on the early 2000. I was 13-14 at the time, and I was surprised people kept saying that "he's a kid at heart" or "they just want money". Like come on, who would believe a stranger was just having sleepover with lots of kids without anything sketchy going on?
First was the order in which I watched. Oprah's interview is done immediately after the audience has watched the documentary (abuse victims themselves) so it's useful as they reference elements to contextualize questions or refer to key parts.
While I do think the parents seriously failed their children by letting them be in this situation, them saying that was how they felt at the time. It was a reflection on what happened and how clear it was that they were being pushed out and not on how they feel now.
I have only watched most of episode 1 so far, didn't have the time to finish the first episode yesterday so maybe I am mixing up with a part I haven't seen yet.
All my life I have always separated the artist from the art and I have never been interested in the life or the way of living for celebrities. Because of that I didn't care when the allegations brought against him back then. My thoughts were wether he is innocent or guilty i will continue to listen to his music. Growing in the 80's it's hard not to feel some kind of attachment to MJ music but for the first time I am going to delete all his music from the devises I own. Having 2 sons and a daughter makes me look at things differently especially in the light of this new document (even though I haven't seen it yet deep down i knew he was a creep).
Up to you, it's affected my ability to though speaking for myself. Hearing Thriller and Bad would remind me that he gave the jacket and gloves away to little boys he raped. Hearing the music in general just doesn't work for me, because it's so intertwined with these kids seeing him as an idol and emulating him before being groomed and abused by him.
Even before watching the documentary, I was in the car listening to the radio when Billie Jean came on. I changed the station just as it started.
Now that I have watched both parts, I don't think I could ever listen to any of his music again.
Now that I have watched both parts, I don't think I could ever listen to any of his music again.
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Why are you digging through my posting history? My thoughts on Nintendo Online, and the fanboys who shit up every thread, have nothing whatsoever to do with allegations of child rape and molestation.
Jacko was a weird freaky weirdo.
All of the posters you quote do not condone any of Jacko's actions either.
We know your opinion. But your character assassination of anyone who disagrees with you is out of order.
There is evidence and miss-information all over this tabloid style reporting.
Why are you digging through my posting history? My thoughts on Nintendo Online, and the fanboys who shit up every thread, have nothing whatsoever to do with allegations of child rape and molestation.
Jacko was a weird freaky weirdo.
All of the posters you quote do not condone any of Jacko's actions either.
We know your opinion. But your character assassination of anyone who disagrees with you is out of order.
There is evidence and miss-information all over this tabloid style reporting.
I wanted to see what the bar was for you to find mod intervention in discussions valid.
Turns out it's people bashing Nintendo.
You said they were "people who are having a hard time understanding or processing a harrowing story" when they're clearly not.
If they're not willing to criticize Michael for even the base level of abuse then I don't see a distinction between that and condoning it, when combined with the context of them coming into the thread to hand-wave (or insult) the victims and refuse to listen to or watch their stories.
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I'm fine being on the side of the forum that's not OK tolerating people dragging child abuse victims through the dirt to cape for someone who was known to have a proclivity for sleeping with numerous unrelated, underage boys on hundreds of occasions, while calling them daily for hours, buying them wedding rings and sending them numerous faxes begging for their attention and referring to them as "little one".
Pointing at me and my "character assassination" in defense of people actually assassinating the character of child abuse victims is pretty fucked.
I get that the topic is very incendiary but there isn't a need to argue like this. Going through someone's post history is time for you to stop posting and go do something meaningful like some dishes or a quick stroll in the daylight.
You have a point, though when someone seemingly enters a thread like this, at this stage in the discussion, solely to criticize mod intervention in defense of people using the same tired methods of dismissal and refusing to watch the stories that the very thread is about, it starts to get a little tiring. That said, delve into any person's history and you'll likely find inconsistencies and easy to pick on 'gotcha' moments and I devalued my own position by doing so. It's fair to call me out.
I'm thankful for the members of the community that have come out to rebuke the way Michael groomed and abused these children. When people persist in hand-waving or refusing to recognise even the most basic amount of wrongdoing and adamantly refusing to watch the material the thread is about, I just can't take it in good faith.
Nor do I think there's anything wrong with banning people such people. I'd rather not share a forum with people that can't see a problem with an adult sleeping in bed with several unrelated children hundreds of times, buying wedding bands and exchanging vows with them, calling them every day to talk for hours, among everything else.
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Both sets of parents really made some unbelievably bad decisions and failed their children enormously, but especially as the documentary goes on, it becomes clear that they were Michael's victims to a certain degree as well imo. He targeted them with tactics explicitly designed to let their guard down and allow their children to be put in a vulnerable position.
That said, at one point in the Oprah interview Jimmy says he is not sure if he will ever be able to forgive his mother, and I understand where he is coming from 100%.
I watched an interesting interview with famed documentarian Louis Theroux on TV here in the UK, where he actually responded surprisingly glibly when asked if he would still listen to MJ's music. I was quite surprised, considering he completely washed his hands of one of his subjects Jimmy Savile, back in the day, once the revelations came out, and he famously tried to get an interview with MJ for his show. It basically boiled down to the whole - well none of us are morally perfect, so you would never listen to any music and watch any films, if you only stuck to people with flawless character.
I mean, there is some truth to this. Lots of creators have problematic histories. It's a lot easier to forgive something like saying something offensive versus a decade-plus long history of grooming little boys.
Apparently the UK airing cuts about an hour out from the 4-hour film to allow commercials. Such bullshit, seems really irresponsible for something this important.
Glad I watched it on HBO.
Glad I watched it on HBO.
I've been MJ did it since 2003 and remember on several occasions being shot down and attacked even when I mentioned how weird he was and that I believed he was a pedo. Guy was the most obvious pedo. Never bought into that stupid narrative that he is just being nice and is lonely and wants a friend cause you know damn well if some weirdo started speaking to ya kids and was like "let's be friend you can sleep over at my house" when he is fucking 30 years old you would have that guy brought in for questioning. Period. Typical stupid fucking group think by idiot fans. Really am not the slightest bit surprised but am rolling my eyes people are even acting 1% shocked by this.
Wikipedia calls it an "abridged" version and my dad said his part 1 was 1 hr 50 mins including about 30 mins of commercials.
I imagine a lot of stage parents across TV and film do the same with their children too. It is awful to think about how many parents sell their kids out for money and fame.
Keep in mind when they met Jackson, it was years before the Jordie Chandler events happened, he didn't have a bad rep, plus he groomed the mothers.
I think it's true.
My friend was just telling me Part 1 is showing up in the UK on Channel 4's app as 93 minutes without commercials.
Here in the US parts 1 & 2 on HBO were each 2 hours.
I don't know what was cut, BUT to be honest having watched the HBO version, if most of the time was cut by cutting out the numerous shots of drone footage nothing of value was lost. I hope the edits weren't more extensive than that.
Horrifying allegations like this dosucmentary purports are difficult to hear, and my image of MJ is irreversibly tainted. The man was clearly mentally ill and should've been in a hospital, however, where it concerns actual abuse, I continue to have doubts. There's too many credibility issues and this documentary fails to report on any of them to the extent that it has a very clear agenda.
Buys Jimmy's mom a house after Jimmy lies for him in court and she thinks "it might have been a payoff", shrugs and giggles. Fuck you, dummy.
It's pathetic that we have Jordan's story of what Michael did to him. We have Jimmy and Wade's stories along with proof of the grooming that we only heard described in the past. And a third boy (man now) claiming Michael did all that to him after Jimmy and Wade, except he refused Michael's sexual advances, and yet we still have dipshits refusing to believe the victims.
It's pathetic that we have Jordan's story of what Michael did to him. We have Jimmy and Wade's stories along with proof of the grooming that we only heard described in the past. And a third boy (man now) claiming Michael did all that to him after Jimmy and Wade, except he refused Michael's sexual advances, and yet we still have dipshits refusing to believe the victims.
I keep seeing a mental picture of all of the screaming MJ fans who worshiped the ground he walked on, taking to the internet to brigade Oprah, Ellen, and anyone else who dared suggest people watch this documentary. Truly pathetic people.
Does anyone remember how much shit Martin Bashir got for probing Jackson on his sleeping arrangements & saying to his face how inappropriate they were? This is a bigger fire storm, but the cult mobilised then too.
The man spent months on end for years sleeping with multiple young boys. I would be shocked if all of them lied about being physically abused while saint Michael who loves sleeping with kids was telling the truth the whole time. That seems incredibly unlikely.
Sadly more was cut. I missed most of the second half of the first part on HBO, but Wade's grandmother isn't in the UK version at all, which I think is a shame - she didn't really add much of weight, but it's another person willing to put their face on camera in support of these men.
didn't michael set up secret cameras to show that the interview and answers were being spliced up for a specific narrative or dramatic effect?
i was very young when it aired but i remember he got maury povich to host a show debunking the former interview
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