If you watch the doc and dont come away thinking MJ is a pedophile scumbag...you are suspect.
I just finished the doc and FUCK Michael Jackson.
I just finished the doc and FUCK Michael Jackson.
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Leaving Neverland, HBO documentary on Michael Jackson's alleged child sexual assaults, review thread: Currently 94% on Rotten Tomatoes
- Thread starter Brian McDoogle
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Over the last week or so I've learned that some people on this forum view abusive emotional and mental manipulation of children as tolerable, just so long as said children weren't sexually abused. Absolutely fucking disgusted by some of you.
No no, they just need "cold hard evidence". You know, the thing that is available in almost 0 cases of rape and sexual assault?
I don't know how anyone can watch this documentary and After Neverland and still believe that these victims are lying. I find it concerning that the mods aren't doing more to combat the victim-blaming here. If they are allowing victim-blaming on this matter, they might as well allow it in every single other case of victim-blaming on this forum, because there is no difference. You allow it once, you might as well allow them all. There is no technicality. There is absolutely no reason at this point for MJ-worship to be the single exception.
User Banned (1 Month): Trolling and Antagonizing Other Users Over a Series of Posts; History of Severe Infractions
Actually, we don't know shit. We know what these two claim. If you have proof or factual evidence as to MJ's guilt and them actually being raped please present it now. And don't feed me conjecture and the "We must believe the (alleged) victims!" spiel, give me actual tangible proof.
I haven't. Not sure I want to entertain the nonsense, especially with it being four hours long but I know enough about the two guys making the claims to know they've lied before and for them as well as the director to use the word "documentary" it carries the thought of it being factual. Couple that with the bias in the media against MJ from tabloids and such for decades and the #metoo era we're in where people have been conditioned to take every single accuser at their word and hold the accused as guilty without any sort of proof and the natural (I'd like to think at least) gut reaction for most of us to have empathy for victims and of course some/many would emotionally jump to judging him as guilty ignoring any objectivity.
It's disturbing to see his dumbass defenders still defending him like he was a member of their family.
I think what pissed me off the most were the parents.
(paraphrasing) I think he bought us a house after the trial. Yeah, maybe it was a pay off.
(paraphrasing) I think he bought us a house after the trial. Yeah, maybe it was a pay off.
That you don't see an adult man repeatedly sleeping in bed with unrelated 5-12yo boys as child abuse speaks volumes.
That you come into the thread saying you won't watch the documentary while demanding 'tangible proof' calling the victims liars is just downright vile.
Perhaps you should watch the doc before you bring that kind of dialog in here. It presents more than just the claims of the two guys (who it breaks down very specifically why they lied before and what specifically changed since then) and actually even has some audio evidence of him grooming them and their families.
That's the way it is for some when it comes to musicians, atheletes, movie stars, celebrities, etc.
What cold hard evidence do we have that Bill Cosby and Harvey Weinstein are rapists?
No place is a mecca but some places are more open to free thought and expression. Social media for example. The mods do a reasonable job here btw, but they've modded people for things I felt was uncalled for plenty of times.
And that's not to say that I don't want or expect rebuttals or opposite views to anything. I love that we all have our own thoughts and opinions, but when you chime in with anything other than "He's guilty! RAR!", you're met with little ignorant slights and jabs by people here who will jump to labelling you or trying to get you modded for daring to express anything other than what they feel.
For Cosby's trash ass, none. He was convicted in fact off word of mouth and hearsay and no actual proof, which is silly to me despite me believing him guilty. I don't know enough about Weinstein's cases except that there was a recording of him harassing a woman and having over 80 women come forward against him.
Well considering the crime I'd say that's understandable. We're not discussing StarWars or Captain Marvel here.
You don't see an unrelated adult man repeatedly sleeping in bed with small boys, while sending them daily love letters and plying their parents with gifts, as child abuse.
Really don't care about your sarcastic response when you're unable to even condemn that, choosing instead to ignore it and act persecuted.
So your just talking rubbish then.
What objectivity are we missing exactly ?
Pretty much.I think what pissed me off the most were the parents.
(paraphrasing) I think he bought us a house after the trial. Yeah, maybe it was a pay off.
I don't know, begging a family to let you take their little boy with you on tour so you can keep sleeping with him seems pretty suspicious to me.
I've been defending the man for years. Is the doc as damning as it seems?
I have to watch this sooner or later. Fuck...I can't stomach knowing that I've been defending someone like that...forever basically.
I have to watch this sooner or later. Fuck...I can't stomach knowing that I've been defending someone like that...forever basically.
It's beyond clear you have no clue about sexual abuse or assault, the affects they have and the (you'd think obvious) issues with proof that are inherent.
You're a walking embodiment of those issues, coming in hand-waving victims, eye-rolling the MeToo movement as if its just a bunch of women squawking without proof until someone (random, you must assume?) of their choosing goes to prison.
You're genuinely part of the reason abuse victims don't come forward. So well done for that I guess.
By not watching the film you literally are ignorant on the topic.
Stop being a coward. Watch the film.
Who said I didn't see him sleeping in beds with them as bad or inappropriate or even possibly abusive? This is my point from before. You all get so emotional that anyone daring not to see it your way is met with such ignorance and anger to where you just make up shit for your argument.
The idea that I have to watch this thing to say anything when I know enough of their lies from before this as well as the fact that by you guys own admission that there is no evidence presented is foolish. If you had tangible evidence you wouldn't rely on emotional response but here you are.
You all have mischaracterized and demonized any and everyone who doesn't tow the line and say what you want, use no objectivity whatsoever instead of seeking actual dialogue or understanding that you've proven my point tenfold.
Didn't know that. Maybe I will check it out eventually to be fully informed at the very least, even if I don't believe them. Thank you for the info.
It is.
If you are going to watch it. Please make sure to watch the Oprah special, also.
The important thing is, you're willing to hear the truth.
Great and objective debate guys. Thanks for all the reasoned and non-emotional arguments and responses to support your claims. Later. ^_^
proudly ignorant and contradictory, with a side of righteous indignation.
In what way was i being emotional ?
You also didn't answer my question.
I will. All I've ever known since I was a kid was the man was "innocent" from friends and family.
So it's a bit difficult trying to reassess those thoughts of him being a "hero" and all that.
People were suffering and I was one of the people cheering him on? God..
Yeah..it makes me sick.
Glad you were incapable of actually coming back to anything.
Glad you're able to make light of child abuse, downplay it to 'inappropriate' and apparently take pride in being a walking testament to why abuse victims don't come out.
Yeah, bail out after you embarrass yourself with blinding ignorance. Sounds good.
If your head wasn't so far up your ass you'd realize that some of the people in this thread have also suffered abuse.
But please, proceed with your tone policing.
Let's be honest with your stance on the matter you don't really deserve a debate. You came in here ready to defend MJ and die on that hill.
It's pretty obvious at the least that MJ was a predatory child abuser based upon the documentary and to be honest even before that. I'm not touching upon the sexual abuse here, even though I think he did it, but more the manipulation and the way MJ separated these kids from their families, slept in the same beds as them etc.
It's amazing to me that people get away with trolling this thread constantly, yet there was a ban handed out in the London hoax bombing thread for literally nothing. Some of the posters in this thread should be permanently barred.
How the hell is there going to be proper debate when you're intentionally ignorant of the subjects of the documentary, because you refuse to watch it based on some preconceived notion of the victims?
You came into this thread dismissing victims of abuse having no knowledge of the information presented in the documentary, called into question the reliability of witness testimony (which is addressed in the fucking documentary by the victims themselves) went on some pompous moral tirade and then got emotional yourself when called out and bailed.
Yeah, real bastion of critical debate you are.
Michael Jackson has a pure heart. He simply cannot be compared to any other individual on the planet. He was unique.
Taj explains all ....
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/newsbeat-47469142
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Yes it's a must and really helps you to see where they are coming from and even defenders would have to agree that it's not bullshit.
Or they would be ignorant to human behavior
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