Leaving Neverland, HBO documentary on Michael Jackson's alleged child sexual assaults, review thread: Currently 94% on Rotten Tomatoes

[Zulith]

Very compelling four hours. I know there will be people who come out of this doc still not believing... but it totally solidified it for me. He was an abuser. And this doc only examines it from the two most recent accusers... there's still the other two who the court cases were about who have their own sides and I really wish we could get as detailed accounts from them as we have here.

The doc didn't really go into the other evidence either, like the material found during the raids which corroborate everything further.

Any critical mind would have to agree there's gotta be something to all of this. Even if you don't believe 100% of it.

I just want to say that aside from the abused themselves, I have a lot of sympathy for Wade's mother. She made some poor choices but she was being manipulated the same as the boys. You can really feel how terrible she feels. I hope her son can work towards forgiving her.

One last thing... people need to stop jumping into this thread defending one way or the other without seeing the doc first. Put in the work if you want to have your view taken seriously. You really need to see the story being told here, with tons of video, audio and photo records to flesh it all out. Some of which will definitely make you blink twice.

 

[Deleted member 11370]

I just want to say that aside from the abused themselves, I have a lot of sympathy for Wade's mother. She made some poor choices but she was being manipulated the same as the boys. You can really feel how terrible she feels. I hope her son can work towards forgiving her.

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I feel the same way about Jimmy's mother. In hindsight, yeah, the tells where all there. Of course. 20/20 and all that. But at the time... Why would you distrust this man? Can you imagine your life changing like that literally overnight? One day you're leading a normal life, the next day you're touring with Micheal Jackson, the biggest star in the whole world, riding a bus with Tina Turner and Sean Connery. He leveraged all his power and influence to lead these people by the nose.

What an absolutely huge piece of shit MJ was. Even if there wasn't any actual abuse, his behavior was extremely predatory. Grooming taken to the furthest extreme, like only someone in the position MJ was could do. I do fully believe that he abused these two boys... and who knows how many more.

 

[synapsidal]

Yeah, "Corey and Macauley weren't molested, therefore Michael is innocent!" doesnt have a leg to stand on. Michael was a calculating, dare I say cunning predator. Dont you think that is part of his grooming tactics? He clearly had a method whereby he slowly, subtlety gauged his victims' responsiveness and openness to his planned advances. All I get out of hearing Corey or Macauley say they weren't molested is that Michael made a judgment call that they wouldn't be controllable like Wade. Just listen to Wade and his family's whole description of their meeting of Michael, their time at Neverland, and afterwards. Michael had a clear, repeated pattern of escalation and isolation.

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Not to mention those two were independently famous, probably too difficult for him to tie all the strings up compared to the Robson & Safechuck families.

 

[Aiii]

Not to mention those two were independently famous, probably too difficult for him to tie all the strings up compared to the Robson & Safechuck families.

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And the fact that they both had very controlling and abusive parents, who were nowhere near as easily groomed.

One thing Feldman does in his tweets is corroborate much of the story the men in this documentary are telling, he just says it's all right except for "the sex part." He's also been on record to say this: "He did real damage in my overall life. I was a 12-year-old boy who was hurt by his family and ignored by people at school. Michael would sit and talk to me for hours and he would listen. Then he would get bored. The biggest thing that Michael's done to children is befriending the ones that are in need and then abandoning them."

His statements seem more in support of all this shit, than not.

 

[Deleted member 835]

Should I refrain from posting information that goes against the narrative of the HBO film--the narrative that Jackson was a sex-addicted pedophile? Should this thread be as one-sided as that?

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Again don't have to have sex with a kid to mess them up mentally. Stop defending shit

 

[Lentic]

And the fact that they both had very controlling and abusive parents, who were nowhere near as easily groomed.

One thing Feldman does in his tweets is corroborate much of the story the men in this documentary are telling, he just says it's all right except for "the sex part." He's also been on record to say this: "He did real damage in my overall life. I was a 12-year-old boy who was hurt by his family and ignored by people at school. Michael would sit and talk to me for hours and he would listen. Then he would get bored. The biggest thing that Michael's done to children is befriending the ones that are in need and then abandoning them."

His statements seem more in support of all this shit, than not.

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That's kind of what I suspected. The kids were only objects for MJ to use. He wanted people to be dependent on him. You can't tell me with a straight face that he sincerely ever cared for their well being. If he did, he never would've done what he did.

 

[Deleted member 224]

Feldman even admits that MJ talked to him about sex in those tweets.

 

[CDX]

I watched both parts 1 and 2 last night, on the HBO app.

Before watching I tried to mentally prepare myself for any graphic descriptions of abuse. But I wasn't prepared for the way the documentary described MJ's interactions and manipulations with the victims and their families. And how you could see the long lasting effects on them.

I was especially disturbed by the wedding ring thing. Just the look of James Safechuck's face and demeanor stayed with me.

 

[Zulith]

"Corey and Macauley weren't molested, therefore Michael is innocent!" doesnt have a leg to stand on.

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One of the takeaways from this doc, if you are convinced by and believe the accusers, is the lengths a child will go to protect an abuser under the kinds of circumstances this case inhabits.

In Mac's case, he was already a big star when he met Mike (having already filmed Uncle Buck, Home Alone and other feature films) and had a very controlling father, so the circumstances likely weren't as much in MJ's favor to go through the same grooming process. But, even if MJ did have inappropriate relations with Mac, who's to say he isn't holding it back to protect MJ's kids (who he is the godfather to), for career reasons, shame, or any other explanation. Until he's in the grave, if something did happen, he can always change his story.

Anyway, if Corey and Mac say nothing happened, I chose to believe them. What MJ is willing to do with low hanging fruit doesn't have to match up with how he interacts with each and every child. This really should be obvious to anyone who reads about this kind of thing.

 

[Uno Venova]

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is there a detailed summary of what is this people's evidence somewhere online??

as someone in Europe and no HBO, i don't think I'll ever see it.

the docu does seem to be turning people "on the fence" against MJ so it must have a very very strong case.

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you can read reactions on Twitter

It's gettig mixed reactions for the most part, as there are celebrities who have denied anything sexual has happened, and there are large threads that bring the accused credibility into question relating to failed lawsuits, past testimonies and agency representation.

 

[Xenon]

I've always felt that the fact that MJ didn't molest Feldmen was never proof of anything. A smart predator is not going to attack every kid around him. They put themselves if a situation where they can have access to a large number of kids and find the right prey. MJ built his home around creating that environment. But even took it a step further by grooming the parents as well. Ultimately he created a large number of people to defend him if one of the kids came forward. So even if most of the kids who went swear that nothing happened, that does nothing to argue against the kids who say something did.

 

[stupei]

I've always felt that the fact that MJ didn't molest Feldmen was never proof of anything. A smart predator is not going to attack every kid around him. They put themselves if a situation where they can have access to a large number of kids and find the right prey. MJ built his home around creating that environment. But even took it a step further by grooming the parents as well. Ultimately he created a large number of people to defend him if one of the kids came forward. So even if most of the kids who went swear that nothing happened, that does nothing to argue against the kids who say something did.

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Having recently watched Abducted in Plain Sight, the grooming of the parents as an active part of the process seems very familiar.

Also interesting comparing this thread with the one here on that documentary about a child predator because everyone there was shocked that any parents would allow an adult man to sleep in the bed with their little girl, yet I guess an adult man with a little boy is entirely fine according to many in this thread.

 

[borghe]

you can read reactions on Twitter

It's gettig mixed reactions for the most part, as there are celebrities who have denied anything sexual has happened, and there are large threads that bring the accused credibility into question relating to failed lawsuits, past testimonies and agency representation.

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the second part is really it.. there's a meme on twitter... but I've actually spent time reading up on all of the bullet points.... that draw STRONG questions into these claims. like the fact that one of the accusers testified, under oath, twice, that nothing inappropriate ever happened. then... after losing a celebrity gig, claimed years later that repressed memories prevented him remembering at the time.. indications that both were struggling and in a sense needed the celebrity provided by this documentary. That the "documentarian" (I feel gross saying that) went out of his way to NOT interview contradicting accounts (i.e. was approached with accounts that contradicted what the men are saying, but refused to interview those people)

I get there's a lot of people who have feelings about what we DO know MJ did with his time with various kids and feel it was inappropriate.. but here.. there's way too much evidence against this here to have any sort of credibility to this documentary. this seems a cash grab just as much as the trial (and subsequent civil lawsuits) in the 00s. at least here they aren't actually grabbing money from MJ.. unlike the 00s when he settled the civil suit out of court to put it behind.

Having recently watched Abducted in Plain Sight, the grooming of the parents as an active part of the process seems very familiar.

Also interesting comparing this thread with the one here on that documentary about a child predator because everyone there was shocked that any parents would allow an adult man to sleep in the bed with their little girl, yet I guess an adult man with a little boy is entirely fine according to many in this thread.

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yup... there was TONS of grooming by parents for many of the kids. Parents seeing dollar signs in place of MJ's friendship with the kids. Terrible. Basically treating their kids as withdrawal slips at the bank of Neverland.

 

[Bliman]

The documentary will be aired here on friday. It seems like this don't change many minds here it seems.
Does it have more evidence of him being a pedophile or that he molested them?
And were these faxes presented as evidence, and for what? The only one I find the weirdest is where he finds himself lonely and talks about little one. But that is hardly damning.
Also can anyone say why they wanted to make this documentarty? I don't get this.
I thought they wanted to sue and get 1.6 billion dollars and wanted justice? Then why not go through the court system first and then tell your story? Wouldn't that be the smartest thing to do for them as well. To keep there cards and evidence close to them and present them at the court? So that those behind MJ have less time to prepare.
I just don't get it.

 

[I Am Captain America]

The documentary will be aired here on friday. It seems like this don't change many minds here it seems.
Does it have more evidence of him being a pedophile or that he molested them?
And were these faxes presented as evidence, and for what? The only one I find the weirdest is where he finds himself lonely and talks about little one. But that is hardly damning.
Also can anyone say why they wanted to make this documentarty? I don't get this.
I thought they wanted to sue and get 1.6 billion dollars and wanted justice? Then why not go through the court system first and then tell your story? Wouldn't that be the smartest thing to do for them as well. To keep there cards and evidence close to them and present them at the court? So that those behind MJ have less time to prepare.
I just don't get it.

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Um mods?

 

[Chitown B]

Watching part 2. This is just awful. Anyone who doesn't believe these kids/adults is living in their own alternate world where they just don't want to.

There is no incentive here to lie now. He's dead, they're not getting a settlement. It's over. The truth coming out at least lets them say their piece.

 

[Bliman]

Um mods?

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Mods? How so? What did I say wrong?

 

[Deleted member 40853]

The whole "this documentary is biased, why didn't they interview the people who say he didn't do anything?" attitude is completely ridiculous. This documentary is about the people who were abused by Michael, obviously he didn't abuse every single little boy he came in contact with. What is the value in interviewing people for this doc just to say "he never did anything bad to me"? Do people think that changes the circumstances at all?

I'm having a hard time imagining people praising the R. Kelly doc for examining all angles if they included interviews from people just to say "R Kelly and I had really awesome consensual sex. He never did anything bad idk what these girls are talking about!". That is not relevant to the documentary.

 

[D23]

Just watched part 1. That was extremely creepy and wow im speechless...

And i idolized MJ growing up...

 

[msdstc]

If Jimmy Safechuck is lying, he's one hell of an actor.

 

[Bliman]

Um mods?

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Also the call for mods always. I am getting fear of even posting about something as serious as this anymore. Do I always having to fear that I get banned or so? How do we have honest conversations of something of this magnitude. Or can you only post small things and don't ask questions anymore? If I say something wrong then say what I said wrong in your view. I really don't want to hurt anyone.
Is it so weird to ask why they made this documentary? Is it a prelude to a court case, is it to tell there story before they go to court, etc...
Doesn't some defenders stick with him here after the documentary? Really I don't like this always calling for a mod. I am right here, just ask or say what I said wrong.

 

[Uno Venova]

Watching part 2. This is just awful. Anyone who doesn't believe these kids/adults is living in their own alternate world where they just don't want to.

There is no incentive here to lie now. He's dead, they're not getting a settlement. It's over. The truth coming out at least lets them say their piece.

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Isn't there still an opportunity to get a settlement from the estate? He recently sued them in 2016.

 

[Carolina Reaper]

Um mods?

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He's been doing that shit all throughout the thread. "Just asking questions!"

 

[Bliman]

He's been doing that shit all throughout the thread. "Just asking questions!"

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Again say what I did say wrong? Don't be vague. And is asking questions wrong. If that is the case then maybe I view a discussion different then you guys.
I want to ask. Is this place a place to have a discussion? Maybe I am seeing this wrong (and again the documentary get's aired here on friday). If this is not a good place to have a discussion. Then I will stop immediately posting in this thread because I don't want to hurt anybody. So can tell anyone if it is?

 

[I Am Captain America]

Also the call for mods always. I am getting fear of even posting about something as serious as this anymore. Do I always having to fear that I get banned or so? How do we have honest conversations of something of this magnitude. Or can you only post small things and don't ask questions anymore? If I say something wrong then say what I said wrong in your view. I really don't want to hurt anyone.
Is it so weird to ask why they made this documentary? Is it a prelude to a court case, is it to tell there story before they go to court, etc...
Doesn't some defenders stick with him here after the documentary? Really I don't like this always calling for a mod. I am right here, just ask or say what I said wrong.

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This is the last time I'm responding to you there's no need for you to keep coming in this thread reiterating the same response with asking the same questions over and over as if you don't want to accept any of these responses and keep bringing up the same questions the last time I'm gonna respond to you because to me these are bait posts when you yourself to need to stop downplaying these allegations from people who have suffered from abuse.

 

[Puroresu_kid]

Do they explain why they testified in defence of Jackson?

 

[msdstc]

Do they explain why they testified in defence of Jackson?

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They do. It's extremely compelling. Also Jimmy Safechuck testified on his behalf in the first trial when he was still a child. He refused to in the 2nd trial.

 

[Solo]

Do they explain why they testified in defence of Jackson?

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My take on it is that they still sought out MJ's love and approval while he was still alive, despite the horrors he ravaged upon them. I believe watching the doc that Wade felt it might bring him closer to Michael again to stand up and say he is a model citizen. Trauma is one hell of a thing.

 

[Wazzy]

Again say what I did say wrong? Don't be vague. And is asking questions wrong. If that is the case then maybe I view a discussion different then you guys.
I want to ask. Is this place a place to have a discussion? Maybe I am seeing this wrong (and again the documentary get's aired here on friday). If this is not a good place to have a discussion. Then I will stop immediately posting in this thread because I don't want to hurt anybody. So can tell anyone if it is?

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How about you watch the documentary before trying to dismiss its existence?

 

[Chitown B]

Isn't there still an opportunity to get a settlement from the estate? He recently sued them in 2016.

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I'm not going to purport knowledge of any of this. Could be wrong on that. But this doesn't seem like a court defense doc. It's awful and also seems like they're still people who don't hate him.

 

[Bliman]

This is the last time I'm responding to you there's no need for you to keep coming in this thread reiteraring the same response with asking the same questions over and over as if you don't want to accept any of these responses and keep bringing up the same questions the last time I'm gonna respond to you because to me these are bait posts when you yourself to need to stop downplaying these allegations from people who have suffered from abuse.

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Who has responded to me in the case why they made this documentary? Was it a prelude to a new court case? Or can't the Mj productions or such be sued anymore? Who has responded besides Kyuuji a little about why they don't go through the court first?
And maybe more important why do you call for the mods for me? Maybe if you don't want to adress the rest then explain that. Because you are basically asking them to ban me. And I don't know for what.

 

[Chitown B]

Do they explain why they testified in defense [sic] of Jackson?

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Stockholm Syndrome is rough.

 

[msdstc]

Who has responded to me in the case why they made this documentary? Was it a prelude to a new court case? Or can't the Mj productions or such be sued anymore? Who has responded besides Kyuuji a little about why they don't go through the court first?
And maybe more important why do you call for the mods for me? Maybe if you don't want to adress the rest then explain that. Because you are basically asking them to ban me. And I don't know for what.

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They're trying to put their story out there so we can stop worshiping this predator.

 

[Bliman]

How about you watch the documentary before trying to dismiss its existence?

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Existence of what? Sometimes some of you are speaking in tongues for me.

 

[Aiii]

Who has responded to me in the case why they made this documentary? Was it a prelude to a new court case? Or can't the Mj productions or such be sued anymore? Who has responded besides Kyuuji a little about why they don't go through the court first?
And maybe more important why do you call for the mods for me? Maybe if you don't want to adress the rest then explain that. Because you are basically asking them to ban me. And I don't know for what.

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For continuously coming into the thread, having no knowledge on the matter, and asking everyone else to do the work for you.

You're JAQ'ing off for no reason other than to stir the pot.

 

[Bliman]

They're trying to put their story out there so we can stop worshiping this predator.

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Ok thank you. And are they also in the meantime suing MJ or family? Or is that 1.6 billion case wrong and can't they be sued anymore?
So that they do it this way to make their case and let the public know because they can't do anything else anymore and it is the last straw for them left?

 

[msdstc]

Ok thank you. And are they also in the meantime suing MJ or family? Or is that 1.6 billion case wrong and can't they be sued anymore?
So that they do it this way to make their case and let the public know because they can't do anything else anymore and it is the last straw for them left?

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?? It's completely unrelated to their lawsuits. They're trying to right the wrong that is the image of Michael Jackson.

 

[borghe]

Some of the mental gymnastics going on in here to dismiss or defend the accusers' inconsistencies, reversals, mistruths, etc..

occams razor. go through immense amounts of mental gymnastics to account for all of the issues brought up countering the doc quality and their accusations.. or... two people who enjoyed the benefits of their adjacent fame now doing whatever they can to continue fame (or notoriety) and income.

Ok thank you. And are they also in the meantime suing MJ or family? Or is that 1.6 billion case wrong and can't they be sued anymore?
So that they do it this way to make their case and let the public know because they can't do anything else anymore and it is the last straw for them left?

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no. their lawsuit was thrown out for an absolute lack of any sort of credible evidence.

 

[Rilakkuma Fanatic]

Some of the mental gymnastics going on in here to dismiss or defend the accusers' inconsistencies, reversals, mistruths, etc..

occams razor. go through immense amounts of mental gymnastics to account for all of the issues brought up countering the doc quality and their accusations.. or... two people who enjoyed the benefits of their adjacent fame now doing whatever they can to continue fame (or notoriety) and income.


no. their lawsuit was thrown out for an absolute lack of any sort of credible evidence.

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I'm sure experiencing a barrage of abuse and insults for fun, in exchange for the uncertain possibility of a settlement, is absolutely why Robson and Safechuck spoke out

 

[Deleted member 224]

Some of the mental gymnastics going on in here to dismiss or defend the accusers' inconsistencies, reversals, mistruths, etc..

occams razor. go through immense amounts of mental gymnastics to account for all of the issues brought up countering the doc quality and their accusations.. or... two people who enjoyed the benefits of their adjacent fame now doing whatever they can to continue fame (or notoriety) and income.


no. their lawsuit was thrown out for an absolute lack of any sort of credible evidence.

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The mental gymnastics going on by you and others in this thread to paint MJ as anything other than a predator and an abuser of children is disgusting. Like, not even touching on rape or molestation, Jackson is still a horrible disgusting person who preyed on children and abused them. Don't you agree?

 

[Carolina Reaper]

Some of the mental gymnastics going on in here to dismiss or defend the accusers' inconsistencies, reversals, mistruths, etc..

occams razor. go through immense amounts of mental gymnastics to account for all of the issues brought up countering the doc quality and their accusations.. or... two people who enjoyed the benefits of their adjacent fame now doing whatever they can to continue fame (or notoriety) and income.


no. their lawsuit was thrown out for an absolute lack of any sort of credible evidence.

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The only gymnastics required are by those who see a grown ass man grooming little boys for sex and still feel some gross need to defend that piece of shit. As others said, even if he never had actual sex with the boys, what he did was still beyond fucked up. Imagine being a person who defends that.

 

[Bliman]

For continuously coming into the thread, having no knowledge on the matter, and asking everyone else to do the work for you.

You're JAQ'ing off for no reason other than to stir the pot.

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Ok then I maybe stop asking stuff here and giving any opinions in this thread anymore.
I shall be honest when I was in the Neogaf thread about Kavannaugh I defended Ford and asked stuff how they could find out the truth and why they didn't this or that. And they also accused me of asking these questions and such. So maybe I am not good at discussing things at a forum. To me a discussion was always a discussion where you could participate in and share your thought. Now it seems you must come up with the receipts or agree or disagree with something anymore. It's like talking besides each other. No need for discussing anymore. But so be it. I guess that's the way that it is. So I will let this thread rest for me. I really don't want to stir the pot I just wanted to come closer to the truth.

 

[Uno Venova]

?? It's completely unrelated to their lawsuits. They're trying to right the wrong that is the image of Michael Jackson.

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I don't think that's true, the same way the R. Kelly doc massively changed public opinion and mobilized criminal institutions to get him is the same way this doc could have potentially changed public opinion to make another attempt to sue his estate not get thrown out in court.

 

[caffe misto]

I'm sure experiencing a barrage of abuse and insults for fun, in exchange for the uncertain possibility of a settlement, is absolutely why Robson and Safechuck spoke out

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It's occam's razor: They're reaching for the popular dream of becoming famous for being molested.

 

[Dr. Feel Good]

Can those in favor of the documentary comment on:

1. Wade going on trial as an adult defending MJ under oath.
2. Wade trying to put a business case around managing choreography for MJ Cirque du Soeli, but was rejected.
3. Wade meeting with Kenny Ortega to work on This Is It but was also rejected.
4. Wade and Jimmy going on record saying that they had never communicated prior to this documentary but was proved through court released communications they had met shortly after Wade filed civil case and Jimmy had not yet filed.
5. Wade blaming his mental breakdowns on the abuse in his late 20's when it was documented he was having both financial and marital problems.

The problem with most documentaries is they don't give full context. I don't questions Michaels behavior as being wrong but I don't believe something happened with Wade (Jimmy is more believable) due to the various oddities going on with his character and past actions.

 

[msdstc]

I don't think that's true, the same way the R. Kelly doc massively changed public opinion and mobilized criminal institutions to get him is the same way this doc could have potentially changed public opinion to make another attempt to sue his estate not get thrown out in court.

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That's probably true, but that's speculation. Either way I'm sure for them as victim's it's liberating to have an actual platform for these accusations. They've tried through various methods in the past and nobody gave them a chance, they just got shouted down.

 

[borghe]

I'm sure experiencing a barrage of abuse and insults for fun, in exchange for the uncertain possibility of a settlement, is absolutely why Robson and Safechuck spoke out

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notoriety is still fame. notoriety can still generate money. the world is filled every day with examples of negative attention seeking, because it is STILL attention. How many shitty stories are sold to tabloids for money? Intentionally (i.e. self-leaked) sex tapes. Etc. Let's not pretend for a moment that ridicule, shame and harassment preclude someone still looking for their 15 minutes or more of fame and a possible payday that can come with it.

edit - The R Kelly comparison isn't even close. R Kelly was dead to rights guilty, EXCEPT for the fact that the original victim refused to come forward in the era pre-metoo. Had they come forward there is little question that he would have been convicted. The documentary simply resurfaced this, as well as prompting other victims to come forward as well.

And here's what I'm saying about MJ.... Yeah he had terrible issues... and as a result of those issues, carried on inappropriate relationships with kids that, while not malicious.. probably impacted those kids leading to them needing help as they grew up.. yes it sucked. but what we know.. that is NOT this documentary. Even IF this documentary brings forward more victims... credible victims.. and we find out there was more to MJ than just the arrested development and carrying on as a child even though he definitely wasn't. that doesn't change this cash grab of a "documentary".

yet here we are.. months after this doc first hit news cycles before airing.. with no new allegations or no new repressed memories from now-grown-adults who had previously stated there was nothing inappropriate (which sexually is probably true.. short of new CREDIBLE accusation... even though all of the grooming and relationships.. by MJ AND THE PARENTS... still fucked these kids up more than likely)

 

[Carolina Reaper]

notoriety is still fame. notoriety can still generate money. the world is filled every day with examples of negative attention seeking, because it is STILL attention. How many shitty stories are sold to tabloids for money? Intentionally (i.e. self-leaked) sex tapes. Etc. Let's not pretend for a moment that ridicule, shame and harassment preclude someone still looking for their 15 minutes or more of fame and a possible payday that can come with it.

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So they're lying about being sexually abused for fame? Just like all the other really popular people renowned solely for the pain they suffered? Really?

 

[stupei]

I don't get people thinking there should be multiple perspectives just because it's a documentary. If you assume that these people are telling the truth, if you believe that they are victims of sexual assault -- which creating a documentary where they blatantly say it would suggest -- then also seeking out people to call the victims liars would not really be particularly moral behavior.

It's totally possible for a documentary to be more detached and even handed, but that isn't absolutely necessary when the focus is two individuals telling a very personal story. It's fine if that's not what you want out of your documentary films, but it doesn't automatically discount its existence or disprove anything whatsoever.

 

[msdstc]

notoriety is still fame. notoriety can still generate money. the world is filled every day with examples of negative attention seeking, because it is STILL attention. How many shitty stories are sold to tabloids for money? Intentionally (i.e. self-leaked) sex tapes. Etc. Let's not pretend for a moment that ridicule, shame and harassment preclude someone still looking for their 15 minutes or more of fame and a possible payday that can come with it.

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Let's not pretend you have any idea what he went through. What he wrestled with daily for his entire life thanks to that parasite.