The Aurora shooting, which you obliquely referenced earlier in this thread, was not inspired by the Joker. Other than that example, which has been debunked multiple times in the last few pages, are there recent examples of mainstream movies getting people killed? I can't think of any. People tried to blame Columbine on everything from Matrix to Doom (the game) to KMFDM. I think it's a bit of a leap, however, to blame media for the actions of the unhinged.
Are you implying the Todd Phillips/Warner Bros. are purposely making this movie to rile up Incels?Out of all those possibilities, all those interesting alternative takes on Joker. They chose to give life to an idealized Joker from Incel fantasies. They know what they were doing.
Are you implying the Todd Phillips/Warner Bros. are purposely making this movie to rile up Incels?
I'm out.
People who blame violence on movies tend to be the same ones who blame it on mental healthYou sound like this guy I know who claims that all racial violence is the result of people with mental problems. "Because normal people can keep their hate in check." Would you also agree that every single cop between Selma and Montgomery, Alabama has undiagnosed mental health issues?
What? This movie is made to take everyone's money.
Are you implying the Todd Phillips/Warner Bros. are purposely making this movie to rile up Incels?
I'm out.
What exactly about my post are you refuting?You sound like this guy I know who claims that all racial violence is the result of people with mental problems. "Because normal people can keep their hate in check." Would you also agree that every single cop between Selma and Montgomery, Alabama has undiagnosed mental health issues?
People who blame violence on movies tend to be the same ones who blame it on mental health
I'll laugh if his incel rage is just directed at rich white dudes
worrying about the film won't solve anything though. the film isn't the problem.Sure, and look, I'm not saying ban the film. It may have been a bit irresponsible to make it depending on its ultimate messaging given current happenings, but I do think it's important for us to be aware of the potential for bad things to come out of it, how it plays into the zeitgeist, and for its messaging to be hijacked so it doesn't take us by surprise.
I apologize for being wrong. Aside from that explicit example that was incorrect, I do not think it is a stretch to say disaffected young men identified with the character and it was going to lead them anywhere it would be to the right, and then the alt-right. whose ideologies have gotten people killed. The prevalence of joker memes on image boards such as 4chan and the internet at large with the underlying violence-against-society messaging was not something being perpetrated by the left. It's important to understand how these things coalesce through culture and the internet and who they are speaking to and what message some people are getting from it.The Aurora shooting, which you obliquely referenced earlier in this thread, was not inspired by the Joker. Other than that example, which has been debunked multiple times in the last few pages, are there recent examples of mainstream movies getting people killed? I can't think of any. People tried to blame Columbine on everything from Matrix to Doom (the game) to KMFDM. I think it's a bit of a leap, however, to blame media for the actions of the unhinged.
I don't know that we need to "worry", that is different than being aware. It shouldn't like ruin anyone's day.worrying about the film won't solve anything though. the film isn't the problem.
Dog every post you've made in this thread has been dumb. Please stop it. You're talking out your ass. I consider myself a leftist but this aint it.How dare someone imply a capitalist entity would appeal to a focused market to take their money?!
That was their plan? So they made a movie specifically to validate Incels? That was literally the only goal? C'mon now you're being super dense.Rile them up? No.
Take their money by giving them validation? Yes. That was probably the plan. Create controversy to get more asses in seats too, they wanted this debate to spark
What exactly about my post are you refuting?
Do you think that the Columbine kids would have been fine if not for Matrix, Doom and KMFDM?
Do you think that James Holmes really was inspired by Joker even though those who researched him the most disagree?
Of course I recognize that racism is a widespread problem. I'm not sure why you think that this film will move the needle on that with thousands of overt platforms for it, including radio, TV news, the president, etc...
This takes place in the 70s, right? Man, I would have loved it if the end scene would have been him looking down at a crying baby that he and his love-interest in the movie had with Ledger's "You know how I got these scars?" speech audio playing and ending with Phoenix saying "Why so serious?"
The movie in and of itself is not responsible for the violence. It just glorifies the violence of an *already* violent culture.
any profit this movie's going to make it soft the name of the DC character joker. Because outside of this forum and a few reviews there is no controversy.I elaborated my post. This movie also aims to profit out of this kind of controversy surrounding it.
Yes, it's worth recognizing that media can lead people to ideas, for good or bad.I apologize for being wrong. Aside from that explicit example that was incorrect, I do not think it is a stretch to say disaffected young men identified with the character and it was going to lead them anywhere it would be to the right, and then the alt-right. whose ideologies have gotten people killed. The prevalence of joker memes on image boards such as 4chan and the internet at large with the underlying violence-against-society messaging was not something being perpetrated by the left. It's important to understand how these things coalesce through culture and the internet and who they are speaking to and what message some people are getting from it.
I don't know that we need to "worry", that is different than being aware. It shouldn't like ruin anyone's day.
Dog every post you've made has been validating sexual and racial violence. You please stop it.Dog every post you've made in this thread has been dumb. Please stop it. You're talking out your ass.
It's an elseworld movie. If this joker were in Matt Reeves Batman then you might have a case, but it's purposefully trying something different.What's the point of making a movie about the Joker if everything that makes the Joker who he is isn't part of the character?
If you want to make a stupid psycho clown movie just make a stupid psycho clown movie, there was no reason to make it about the damn Joker. I don't understand why this particular movie is worth so much defense.
Are you really trying to compare this movie to right-wing fear-mongering and Trump's rhetoric?Well we generally agree that right wing talk radio, Fox News, and Trump are bad? Right? So why should this movie be exempt.
You're dumb as fuck and it's embarrassing and disrespectful to actual sexual and racial violence. Fuck off.Dog every post you've made has been validating sexual and racial violence. You please stop it.
Are you really trying to compare this movie to right-wing fear-mongering and Trump's rhetoric?
Because it's not remotely comparable. I sincerely doubt that the takeaway that the screenwriter, director or Phoenix are trying to instill is that this is a character to emulate or look up to. Judging something by the worst misinterpretation of it seems misguided at best. Goodfellas, Scarface, Taxi Driver, American Pscyho, American Gangster, Raging Bull, etc... could all be misinterpreted in ways that can cause harm. What's the solution? I sure don't think it's to isolate anyone that sees the movie (particularly when 90%+ of the audience will not interpret it they way you think they will).Well we generally agree that right wing talk radio, Fox News, and Trump are bad? Right? So why should this movie be exempt.
Are you really trying to compare this movie to right-wing fear-mongering and Trump's rhetoric?
You're dumb as fuck and it's embarrassing and disrespectful to actual sexual and racial violence. Fuck off.
I think it comes up for this movie because chan culture (and other places on the net) is a pretty specific thing, white men who think they are vicitmized and outcasted and who have a desire to burn everything down with no regard for society, and a pretty direct correlation can be drawn there with that type of individual as the leading figure.Yes, it's worth recognizing that media can lead people to ideas, for good or bad.
When we worry about people misinterpreting something, however, then what's the solution? There have always been movies that could be misinterpreted. Scarface, for example, is seen as an aspirational tale by many people even though it's clearly not intended to be.
What's the solution?
Why does this conversation come up for this movie and not for hundreds of others that could similarly be misinterpreted?
People weren't generally already committing mass murders over the themes of Taxi Driver before the movie came out.Because it's not remotely comparable. I sincerely doubt that the takeaway that the screenwriter, director or Phoenix are trying to instill is that this is a character to emulate or look up to. Judging something by the worst misinterpretation of it seems misguided at best. Goodfellas, Scarface, Taxi Driver, American Pscyho, American Gangster, Raging Bull, etc... could all be misinterpreted in ways that can cause harm. What's the solution? I sure don't think it's to isolate anyone that sees the movie (particularly when 90%+ of the audience will not interpret it they way you think they will).
You seem to be misunderstanding everyone who is bringing up your first post...The script seemed bad.
The story seems bad based on the trailers and marketing.
The movie is bad, the twist is dumb and why he's on the talk show is dumb. The political point is dumb because of the bad twist.
Phoneix is good.
Good enough?
Yes, I've met plenty of people who watched Fight Club. The overwhelming majority understood the film and didn't idolize Tyler Durden. The few who did think that Tyler Durden was "cool/badass" whatever didn't act on that belief or interpretation, so it didn't really matter that they misinterpreted.People weren't generally already committing mass murders over the themes of Taxi Driver before the movie came out.
As for people taking the wrong interpretation, have you never met someone who watched Fight Club?
Exempt from what? How is this movie comparable to Trump and the gop's propaganda?Well we generally agree that right wing talk radio, Fox News, and Trump are bad? Right? So why should this movie be exempt.
I feel like I'm taking crazy pills. What is happeningAre you really trying to compare this movie to right-wing fear-mongering and Trump's rhetoric?
Apparently Tipper Gore was much more influential than we realized.
Because it justifies and glorifies the ideology of white, sexually unsuccessful men who already commit mass violence on the regular?Exempt from what? How is this movie comparable to Trump and the gop's propaganda?
So your take away from this movie you haven't seen is that the joker is portrayed as the good guy and isn't challenged? The joker killing people and snapping is totally justified within the context of the movie?Because it justifies and glorifies the ideology of white, sexually unsuccessful men who already commit mass violence on the regular?
Because it justifies and glorifies the ideology of white, sexually unsuccessful men who already commit mass violence on the regular?
Now I've only seen trailers but I'm pretty sure he gave that girl the big smooch.Hard to see a difference from where I'm standing.
Whatever you say guy who defends a movie lionizing the violent outbursts of a guy who doesn't get with the woman he wants to.