That is the mood I was looking for. Never been a big Superman fan, hate MoS but damn I know there is a good character there. This will be fun.
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Last night, I read a bunch of Superman origin comics. Man of Steel (the film) is dogshit by comparison.
- Thread starter SageShinigami
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That is the mood I was looking for. Never been a big Superman fan, hate MoS but damn I know there is a good character there. This will be fun.
DC recently started doing HCs for John Byrne's Superman/Man of Steel run and I just read his origin series the Man of Steel mini. Thought it was pretty great and reminded me more of the old Superman movies than anything else. Loved how Lex Luthor was basically Donald Trump lol.
The thing with bad Superman adaptations is they think what makes him a superhero is his powers.
When it's not. It's his humanity, his love and the fact that he would put his life on the line for literally anyone.
Him and Captain America are the same in that matter
Like in Endgame when all seems lost and he tightens his shield and doesn't give up.
That's what Superman would do. Super strength, flight or any of this powers. If he didn't have a single one of them, it wouldn't change who he is and why he fights for what he does.
I always found Supes and Cap to be two different ways to tell a story of a very similar character.
When it's not. It's his humanity, his love and the fact that he would put his life on the line for literally anyone.
Him and Captain America are the same in that matter
Like in Endgame when all seems lost and he tightens his shield and doesn't give up.
That's what Superman would do. Super strength, flight or any of this powers. If he didn't have a single one of them, it wouldn't change who he is and why he fights for what he does.
I always found Supes and Cap to be two different ways to tell a story of a very similar character.
This is the problem with 95% of films and TV. I'm in the middle of Umbrella Academy season 1 where characters pretty much have to look into the camera to tell you shit, or the camera has to zoom in on clues to make sure you get it.
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This is a very good way to describe it. They're literally the same character, you just have to be a bit more clever to tell stories about Superman than Cap because you can challenge Captain America with a fight.
Considering how hard it is to find a Superman comic where he isn't fighting someone, I wouldn't even say you need to be that clever
Their origins of course are different. And the way they react to losses are a bit different, but I believe that's mostly due to their power levels.
Superman is definitely harder to ground and requires better writing to pull off because he is stupidly powerful, but the well written ones are so good because of it
I think he means it's much harder to challenge Superman as he is the most powerful for the most part. For Cap he is, in the grand scheme of things not that strong. So to show him being challenged is quite a lot easier and believable
Eh i think its a fine superhero film. The destruction in the final battle sequence gets repetitive and is a prime example of how boring comic book movie third act scenes can get but i personally liked the Pa Kent depiction in the film and had no problems with that tornado scene either. I think for a snyder film it suprisingly emotionally resonated.
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Sure, he's fighting all the time. But you don't want to build Superman's challenges around "can he win this fight". Of course he can. He's Superman. There's scenarios where you can--Darkseid and Doomsday--but largely he's going to win.
wearing the Ronnie Coleman/John Cena suit I seeIf people are interested, you should check of Superman for All Seasons as well. By Jeph Loeb and Tim Sale.
Its kinda of an origin story but a bit more broad. Its very good though.
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You must have some interesting opinions about Heroes in Crisis.
Eh I guess I'm thinking of stuff that isn't super involved in continuity. I think that Mister Miracle, Vision, and in particular Omega Men are some of the best comics of the last decade, and I fell off of his Batman so quickly that I fell out of the loop on all the current DC stuff. I read about Heroes in Crisis and yeesh
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His Batman takes a while to get going. It has a really hot run of issues and then falls off to me, but people like it well enough. Heroes in Crisis though...offends me, if I'm being honest.
I heard about what they did to my boy and I have no interest in ever reading it. I'm just going to ignore those events
User Banned (1 Day): Thread Whining
What's that? Time for another shit on Snyder thread? Pretty sure this forum has a bigger hate boner for him than trump.
this forum could talkshit about a ton of crap like dark knight rises, sonic, david cage games, michael bay
but snyder and ernest cline are the only subjects that get this pushback and it's hilarious every time
There was AT LEAST 4 topics last week expressly made to shit on him and the movies he makes. So when those start getting weekly posts just to hivemind and validate hate with cheap posts, ill jump in there and tag you just so you know I'm equally annoyed. Until then, you're free to keep your head in the sand.
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Man I ain't see them shits! This thread exists completely independently of that. You talking about "cheap posts"and "hivemind" I spent a literal hour and a half on this OP finding the images to support my argument, which you don't seem like you read. Take all that somewhere else, fam.
Excellent, excellent OP.
All I can add is that I've been saying this for years, even before MoS was released. Every single thing Snyder said revealed he didn't actually understand the character of Clark and therefore Superman.
If he did, MoS would have been a great film. It's not, but it's waaaaaay better than BvS or Justice League.
Just adapt any of the origin stories you mentioned in the OP for live action and it will be fantastic.
All I can add is that I've been saying this for years, even before MoS was released. Every single thing Snyder said revealed he didn't actually understand the character of Clark and therefore Superman.
If he did, MoS would have been a great film. It's not, but it's waaaaaay better than BvS or Justice League.
Just adapt any of the origin stories you mentioned in the OP for live action and it will be fantastic.
Man of Steel (and BvS) were built and advertised on the idea of Superman existing in the real world. Our world where nothing is so black and white, and no one is perfect.
The Clark in MoS is more or less exactly the same guy you want him to be, it's just that half the world hates him for it and doesn't trust him. This is his endless struggle he can't punch away.
The Clarks, like anyone with good common sense, knew he'd be in a world of shit had he ever been discovered, and only wanted a normal life for him.
The Clark in MoS is more or less exactly the same guy you want him to be, it's just that half the world hates him for it and doesn't trust him. This is his endless struggle he can't punch away.
The Clarks, like anyone with good common sense, knew he'd be in a world of shit had he ever been discovered, and only wanted a normal life for him.
The "real world" thing doesn't change anything.
Arguably, it makes it worse.
Nothing beats All Star. One page. No full sentences. Everything you need.
Ah those Quitely faces. Look like Greys.
Except he's fucking lifeless. Cavill exists merely to be Space Jesus suffering and dying for our sins (before coming back and turning evil because Snyder really just wants to see Supes kill people). The Supermen in other origin stories have been "realistic" insofar that their stories are grounded, but they have personalities. Characterization. Charm. Look at the scenes in OP, all of them give Clark more character than anything seen in Snyder's mindless CGI explosions, slomo, and color filters. What does Cavill have? Dude has zero personality, zero charisma, he's a total bore to watch.
And the "realism" defense is laughable considering this is a universe where Lex makes a piss IED, Batman spares Superman because their moms have the same name (no he didn't realize Clark had a mother, he already knew that when he taunted Clark about his parents, it's explicitly because her name is Martha that Batman spares him), Clark puts no effort into hiding his identity beyond glasses, and Snyder is clearly just mad that people don't like his Superman. Hence his lashing out that his films "are for grown ups", yet he made sure to let us know Doomsday went to an unoccupied part of the city so he could blow shit up without repeating MoS's fiasco. Snyder's DCEU is not "realistic" at all, it's a Silver Age world of camp mixed with the worst of the Dark Age excesses.
HeY gUyS sToP bEiNg MeAn To SnYdEr!
It really is a bad movie. Not just in that it misses the point of Superman and completely mischaracterizes him, but also in the fact that it's a bad story poorly told. None of the emotional beats it does have hit because the flashbacks are all jumbled in the wrong order.
With a few more story passes and a proper editor it may have made a good Elseworlds thing. Making it the canon foundation of their cinematic universe was just madness.
It really is a bad movie. Not just in that it misses the point of Superman and completely mischaracterizes him, but also in the fact that it's a bad story poorly told. None of the emotional beats it does have hit because the flashbacks are all jumbled in the wrong order.
With a few more story passes and a proper editor it may have made a good Elseworlds thing. Making it the canon foundation of their cinematic universe was just madness.
MoS want the best, but at least it was entertaining. In an era where there are dozens of superhero movies, Superman's boy scout persona is straight up boring. I'm glad he tried something different even if it didn't work out. Watching Superman Returns solidified that for me.
People forget that in it's inception, Batman started out as pretty cheesy and hammy both in comics and live action. Thankfully the source material evolved and the other media followed suit.
People forget that in it's inception, Batman started out as pretty cheesy and hammy both in comics and live action. Thankfully the source material evolved and the other media followed suit.
So he suppose to be perfect his first day on the job? 🙄 Of course the characterization wasn't classic Superman. He ain't learned how to be Superman yet.....
What even is this take. Man of Steel was dire. The entire OP outlines how other, better writers have effectively used the "boy scout persona".
If Snyder didn't want to make a "boy scout" movie, he shouldn't have signed on to adapt Superman.
Never mind that Marvel successfully leveraged the "boy scout persona" with Captain America, catapulting him into being one of the most beloved MCU characters.
This is also a weird take. Superman doesn't learn how to be humble or heroic or warm or kind. Those qualities are what inherently makes him Superman. Learning to fly well or focus his heat vision or whatever makes sense, learning to be empathetic.. doesn't.
I liked Superman Returns a lot in comparison but I feel like I'm in the minority. It wasn't perfect but definitely had some very memorable scenes.
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Great post OP. Birthright remains one of my favorite Superman stories. Man of Steel will always be the very definition of mediocre. A lot of great things mixed with a lot of horrific ones.
So that's where Brightburn got its influence from.
Well, Cavill totally looks the part for one. Two, just seeing Superman fight in his all glory for the first time was a revelation and huge breath of fresh air for a lot of people. I was sold at the first flight scene, but that's just me. Man of Steel left little room for charm and optimism, but I was fine with that because i've already seen it.
In regards to Superman, the "realism" take is mainly in relation to how the world views him and what his struggle would actually be. Other than that, these are still action movies with aliens and shit, so of course some outlandish things are going to happen.
I always enjoyed Superman returns. It's repeating Superman 78 but I think it hits those points. It suffers from that directors problems with the weird end and other emo shit. But it's interesting to compare returns and bvs beats.
just thinking of the Superman dying scene and the city waiting outside the hospital and ma Kent not getting in vs bvs and a newspaper cover
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But this isn't the real world. It's fiction. It will always BE fiction. So making a poor imitation of the real world and dragging Superman down in it's mire just gives us a (vastly) worse film for no reason other than people trying to prove how "adult" superheroes can be.
The OP is literally about Supermen who don't know how to be Superman yet. I'm tired of this defense. It's bad. It's always been bad. I literally would prefer for you to say "I don't care, I like this better", because I can't say anything to that.
I think calling Man of Steel a good DBZ movie is very apt. I still watch it from time to time just because I like the fight scenes with Zod and the other Kryptonians throwing each other through buildings and into tankers and all that. But yeah, the story makes Superman out to be so...cold.
Maggie Mae Fish made a great video comparing a scene from Donner's Superman where he saves a cat with all the rescue scenes from Man of Steel and you can really see how the Donner scene captures his warmth and compassion while the MoS scenes focus primarily on his strength and physical superiority. The important part of Superman for Snyder, it seems, is more the "super" than the "man." I didn't mind that coldness much the first time I watched the movie, as the effects and action kept me entertained, but I've grown to dislike it more and more upon subsequent viewings.
Maggie Mae Fish made a great video comparing a scene from Donner's Superman where he saves a cat with all the rescue scenes from Man of Steel and you can really see how the Donner scene captures his warmth and compassion while the MoS scenes focus primarily on his strength and physical superiority. The important part of Superman for Snyder, it seems, is more the "super" than the "man." I didn't mind that coldness much the first time I watched the movie, as the effects and action kept me entertained, but I've grown to dislike it more and more upon subsequent viewings.
OP, if you're looking for additional great reading, get your hands on the following:
Dan Jurgen's Superman run from the 90s and more recently Rebirth.
Kurt Busiek's Superman: Secret Identity which actually goes over the idea of Superman being grounded in a world where hes like the only super hero and if Birthright and Secret Origin hit you, so will this one. (added plus for an Indian Lois Lane)
If you can get a copy of Adventures Superman #10. You want to read the second story by Josh Elder called "Letter's to Superman" it is a must for any fan of Superman.
Dan Jurgen's Superman run from the 90s and more recently Rebirth.
Kurt Busiek's Superman: Secret Identity which actually goes over the idea of Superman being grounded in a world where hes like the only super hero and if Birthright and Secret Origin hit you, so will this one. (added plus for an Indian Lois Lane)
If you can get a copy of Adventures Superman #10. You want to read the second story by Josh Elder called "Letter's to Superman" it is a must for any fan of Superman.