Don't even bother anymore, it's very clear people are purposefully moving the goal posts.Uh yes, that's one of the issues with her reduction of other artists' music.
It's not rocket science to see what's wrong with what she said.
Don't even bother anymore, it's very clear people are purposefully moving the goal posts.Uh yes, that's one of the issues with her reduction of other artists' music.
But that's her point. She's making the same kind of music.Well you said she was right. I ain't bug into pop music but from what I know all the number ones that those singers have had aren't at all like what Lana describes.
Cheating, getting naked, being sexy. Etc...
I don't think goal-posts are moving. OP made a claim in their original title that was a reach, and people called them out. Now, if anything, the detractors are moving goal-posts that Lana Del Rey's comments were at least problematic and hypocritical in general, which wasn't the original topic.Don't even bother anymore, it's very clear people are purposefully moving the goal posts.
It's not rocket science to see what's wrong with what she said.
"Now that Doja Cat, Ariana, Camila, Cardi B, Kehlani and Nicki Minaj and Beyoncé have had number ones with songs about being sexy, wearing no clothes, fucking, cheating etc – can I please go back to singing about being embodied, feeling beautiful by being in love even if the relationship is not perfect, or dancing for money – or whatever I want"
You don't see the reduction in this juxtaposition? Not only that, but even if this were the case, black artists, especially black female artist—of whom she has named five— have historically had a lot less agency in what they're allowed to create.
But that's her point. She's making the same kind of music.
She's not saying her music is "better" or "different" at all.
Now that Doja Cat, Ariana, Camila, Cardi B, Kehlani and Nicki Minaj and Beyoncé have had number ones with songs about being sexy, wearing no clothes, fucking, cheating etc – can I please go back to singing about being embodied, feeling beautiful by being in love even if the relationship is not perfect, or dancing for money – or whatever I want
Her point is invalid when those very same artists get the same exact scrutiny, if not arguably worse.But that's her point. She's making the same kind of music.
She's not saying her music is "better" or "different" at all.
Uh yes, that's one of the issues with her reduction of other artists' music.
But that's her point. She's making the same kind of music.
She's not saying her music is "better" or "different" at all.
You're still wrong.context is important.
She's talking about hits, not entire catalogues. Hits = socially acceptable songs, which therefore gives validation to similar subject matter, such as her own music. Aka what her rant is about.
If the post was framed more this way I would agree on it being reductive:
"Now that Doja Cat, Ariana, Camila, Cardi B, Kehlani and Nicki Minaj and Beyoncé make songs about being sexy, wearing no clothes, fucking, cheating etc –"
Ariana being white somehow erases every other artist she listed
What I understand from this quote is that "now that singers with more vapid subject matter are celebrated, can I go back to making music about actual relevant/deep/empowering subject matters".
That's how I read it too. I'm honestly surprised some people don't see it. It's pretentious or condescending at the very least.Eh, I kind of interpret "can I go back to making songs about being embodied, beautiful and in love" as looking down on them.
context is important.
She's talking about hits, not entire catalogues. Hits = socially acceptable songs, which therefore gives validation to similar subject matter, such as her own music. Aka what her rant is about.
If the post was framed more this way I would agree on it being reductive:
"Now that Doja Cat, Ariana, Camila, Cardi B, Kehlani and Nicki Minaj and Beyoncé make songs about being sexy, wearing no clothes, fucking, cheating etc –"
Remember Formation?
You're still wrong.
All of those topics have been 'socially' acceptable for the past few decades, come on now. Her issue is with critics, and she's taking it out on other artists as if she's unfairly persecuted and they're not.
Yeah..... no. Just no. That's not what it is at all.No, if anything she's implying they had a similar struggle with using "Now that", which infers it was different in the past. You can read any review of her first album to find criticism regarding the subject matter.
And your own point doesn't make sense. Yes, her issue is with critics, so how is she "taking it out on artists"? There is no negativity towards those artists listed, no shade, if anything it's a celebration of what they are doing and how they are making the music they want to make and have it be successful. She's using their success to validate herself, not really the other way around.
Reading her Instagram post she comes across more like she thinks she's a victim of unfair judgememt. It sort of spins both ways when I read it because when she brings those artists up it half sounds like she is saying now that they've made it acceptable through popularity will yall get off my back and half, they dont get criticised the way I do. And the thing is like, who is really in good faith arguing Nikki Minaj was not criticised for the type of music she was making or promoting for example? There has always been a bias in music against women talking about sex or revealing their bodies or the types of relationships they have.
Lana isn't new in this regard. So I'm of 2 minds about this. She doesn't need to name drop to make her point. And her point is not wrong when it comes to criticism of her music as an individual. But all the women she name dropped specifically the black ones get criticized all the time for the topics they sing about. I dunno. The tone of the post rubs me the wrong.
I don't think goal-posts are moving. OP made a claim in their original title that was a reach, and people called them out. Now, if anything, the detractors are moving goal-posts that Lana Del Rey's comments were at least problematic and hypocritical in general, which wasn't the original topic.
I think her IG post is much more clear about what she wants to say and the Lana Del Rey music from 10 years ago was definitely a lot of about sex, cheating, abusive relationship etc.Eh, I kind of interpret "can I go back to making songs about being embodied, beautiful and in love" as looking down on them.
That she also has crass songs about sex (...which was about Weinstein?? WTF?!) makes her a hypocrite in addition to all of the above.
You seriously can't be this naive.yes
pointing out the subject matter of some of their songs isn't shitting on them
like, she isn't even being snide about it or anything just "songs about being sexy, wearing no clothes, fucking, cheating etc"
no extra words framing those subjects negatively or anything
I agree the tone is bad and she certainly could have worded the entire thing better, but I don't find it nearly as problematic as the Alison Roman debacle, for one, or like the way the OP was originally framed. She's implying that everyone reading this is familiar with her career intricacies, so that's making it harder for her to get a point across.
You seriously can't be this naive.
This place still has a long way to go when it comes to discussing microagressions.
This 1000%. I have 0 desire to ever listen to her music again.If Lana's issue is with her critics misconstruing her lyrics as glorifying abuse, that's a valid thing to rant about. Cool.
Her namedropping a group of artists who are mostly minorities, who have nothing to do with her or her hang-ups, and who are not only known and celebrated for songs singing about banal promiscuity is some real, Karen-ass bullshit here. And for her to stand around acting like she's any kind of victim when she's outgrossed several of these artists combined regardless of any critical hang-ups is appalling.
I can't even say I'm fucking surprised by how the topic initially went either.
What I understand from this quote is that "now that singers with more vapid subject matter are celebrated, can I go back to making music about actual relevant/deep/empowering subject matters".
Dumb arguments like those in the OP trivialize real problems. Virtue signaling in bad faith only hurts the liberal cause.
She name dropped famous female artists. They happen to be POC. OK. Maybe if more white women were topping the charts she would be naming them.
you realize she's using them as an example because... she's been writing music of the same subject matter her entire career. If there is a micro aggression here, then it would also be aimed at herself. There is no negativity implied towards what those girls are doing, the opposite actually. This is why context is important and why Lana's argument is challenging to get across since people reading it don't really know enough about her.
Really hope you're being sarcastic.Dumb arguments like those in the OP trivialize real problems. Virtue signaling in bad faith only hurts the liberal cause.
She name dropped famous female artists. They happen to be POC. OK. Maybe if more white women were topping the charts she would be naming them.
Lmao right, white women are rarely ever at the top of the charts. I can see how it would be hard for Lana to think of any.
this is why I'm confused. why would lana shit on something she does all the time? some of her lyrics have been posted in this thread, clearly she has no issue with songs about being sexy, naked, or fucking but so many people keep trying to force it
I think there is a good discussion to have about how Lana Del Rey music was treated back in the day, maybe it wasn't the right way to talk about it though.
She name-dropped specifically "urban"/R&B artists, and claimed that since they've had their time in the limelight, she's entitled to the same attention. Why?Dumb arguments like those in the OP trivialize real problems. Virtue signaling in bad faith only hurts the liberal cause.
She name dropped famous female artists. They happen to be POC. OK. Maybe if more white women were topping the charts she would be naming them.
I'm out.Dumb arguments like those in the OP trivialize real problems. Virtue signaling in bad faith only hurts the liberal cause.
She name dropped famous female artists. They happen to be POC. OK. Maybe if more white women were topping the charts she would be naming them.
JfcNormally I'd just say to report click-bait thread titles,but it doesn't look like that'll be a viable option in this case.
what she said only works under the pretext that none of those artists got rap for the songs they put out, hits or otherwise.LDR is a fantastic artist who has been needlessly shit on because of misogyny and gatekeeping about who gets to make art.
I also don't see anything really wrong with the quote and don't think she was swiping at those artists.
I took it as more or a 'ok, there are plenty of artists making lots of music, can I just make my depressing shit in peace'
It's not the subject matter, it's the fact that her argument basically boils down to "how come they get to do it with no backlash and not me?" Which is simply not true.
Like I said, this place has a long way to go when it comes to discussing microaggressions.
Why do you put words in her mouth? She's literally asking for people to stop criticizing the sexual themes in her songs now that mainstream female artists are openly embracing her sexual freedom. That's, literally, what she's saying. Everything else is conjecture in the best of cases.She name-dropped specifically "urban"/R&B artists, and claimed that since they've had their time in the limelight, she's entitled to the same attention. Why?