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Lack of widescreen on some updated Xbox BC games is an ugly blemish

SilverX

SilverX

Member
Jan 21, 2018
13,105
I am playing Conker right now and it looks truly stunning, but the fact that its in 4:3 screen format takes away so much from how nicely it has aged (and well running on an Xbox One X). The added detail and clarity with the black borders just looks so odd, as if something is wrong with the picture as the game passes nicely for a modern release with how crisp it looks.

What amazes me is that MS hasn't allowed their emulator to enable widescreen on games like Conker (a game that they own even) when other emulators have been able to achieve it.
 
flkRaven

flkRaven

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,236
SilverX said:
I am playing Conker right now and it looks truly stunning, but the fact that its in 4:3 screen format takes away so much from how nicely it has aged (and well running on an Xbox One X). The added detail and clarity with the black borders just looks so odd, as if something is wrong with the picture as the game passes nicely for a modern release with how crisp it looks.

What amazes me is that MS hasn't allowed their emulator to enable widescreen on games like Conker (a game that they own even) when other emulators have been able to achieve it.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Wouldn't just 'enabling' widescreen stretch the image? Wouldn't they need to do a ton of work to enable it properly?
 
OnionPowder

OnionPowder

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
9,323
Orlando, FL
A lot of games force widescreen to terrible results when they didn't allow it natively.

Seems like a minor complaint, you're playing the game at higher res and better framerate already as a free update if you already own the game (which I do).
 
THEVOID

THEVOID

Prophet of Regret
Member
Oct 27, 2017
22,923
They don't touch the code and stretching the image would look like dogshit.
 
NSA

NSA

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
3,892
Uh, no. I don't want it stretching the screen to fake widescreen.

Editing the actual game to make it do widescreen when it wasn't designed for it is outside of the scope of work of these releases...
 
Borman

Borman

Digital Games Curator at The Strong Museum
Verified
Oct 26, 2017
847
In order to do so, it would require patching, either on the fly or directly modifying things, potentially introducing issues which then would need additional testing. Having tried my hand at hacking Xbox games for widescreen, the values can vary depending on the game, with some requiring multiple spots to be patched (and usually making the HUD get stretched, although that isn't all that unusual with released games).
 
funky

funky

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,527
Hacking in widescreen is hard.

If other emulators trying it are any indications, lots of games cull stuff off screen so even if you make that extra screen visable, the new viewable areas on the sides will be full of errors and missing stuff.

To fix that takes a lot of work on a per game basis and isnt a simple toggle like slapping it into a emulator and rendering at a higher resolution.


Its why a lot of HD remasters zoom in on the old 4:3 the game had to make it fill a widescreen display but when you do that you are actually losing out on what you should be able to see.
 
Last edited:

Deleted member 21709

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
23,310
They aren't ports or remasters, so we don't have many options here.

I'm still playing Orta and Breakdown in HD, for $9.99 each. That's to be celebrated.
 
JINX

JINX

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,481
The emulator doesn't touch the code, plus a lot of the time it doesn't look great.
 
DocSeuss

DocSeuss

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,784
I will never understand the perspective that prefers no black bars to image quality and proper scaling
 
bsigg

bsigg

Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,617
I'd prefer they keep it the original aspect ratio since they they're not altering the original code for the game to force a native 16:9. Just stretching to 16:9 looks messy since it's not a clean conversion from 4:3
 
Ales34

Ales34

Member
Apr 15, 2018
6,455
Stretching an old 4:3 game to widescreen would just make it uglier.

I usually stop noticing the black borders after a while.
 
Krvavi Abadas

Krvavi Abadas

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
1,254
Videoland
There's a reason why emulator functionality that forces Widescreen support are known as "Widescreen Hacks".

A pretty large amount of games avoid drawing anything that's off-screen, using a technique known as "frustum culling". This is fine when you're running a game in a 4:3 aspect ratio, but when you hack the game to make it widescreen, that causes things to go a bit haywire, as the game still thinks it's in 4;3, anything outside of that aspect ratio has a tendency to not appear correctly.

To demonstrate, here's some footage of Metroid Prime running in Widescreen using the Dolphin emulator.

Notice how the platforms turn black when they hit the edge of the screen? That's frustum culling.

While there are even more hacks to work around this, you'd have to patch every game individually, something that would be far beyond the scope of the BC program.
(This is also the most likely reason why those recently revealed Shenmue remasters use a mix of 4;3 and widescreen aspect ratios, it probably switches to 4;3 during scenes where the frustum culling would be incredibly noticeable.)
 

Gitaroo

Member
Nov 3, 2017
8,087
That's why I rather have jsrf, otogi 1&2 and metal wolf as real remaster with proper widescreen. If sega has to get all the music licences back to even release jsrf in BC they might as while go extra miles with full remaster.
 
Fawz

Fawz

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,683
Montreal
I mean it would be nice if they offered the option for Border Art or to stretch the image, but they're not touching the code and expanding the view to a 16:9 ratio can cause a huge amount of varied issues based on how the game was made. But that's why these are free updates for modern conversion and not paid remasters to modern standards.
 
Mitth'raw'nuruodo

Mitth'raw'nuruodo

Member
Nov 6, 2017
823
At least optional a 16:9 stretch would be nice. I just forced it (in the TV options) for one game (Jade Empire) and it does not look that bad.
 
UltraGashInferno

UltraGashInferno

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,050
Op isnt talking about stretching, modern emulators have widescreen hacks that function like native widescreen but it has flaws, as described above
 

Deleted member 135

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
11,682
Forcing widescreen in Gen6 games is a real pain in the ass. If you can do it you'll usually get a ton of pop-in in the new screen area as the devs never expected that area to be seen.

I only do it to a handful of games on my PS2 and GameCube and there are always some pop-in issues added.

20170610_221930.jpg
 
hank_tree

hank_tree

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
2,596
Ugh no thanks OP. Do you have trouble watching The Wire in 4:3?
 

Deleted member 10726

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,674
ResetERA
as someone who made and cross region-ported some widescreen hacks on PCSX2, I can tell you it's hardly ever as straightforward as you think. Extending the viewing range normally means you're going to be showing more of the screen than was intended. Some games already cull geometry in that extended area, others place stuff in that area to later pop into the scene (P4 for example has NPCs waiting outside of the normally visible range in Social Link scenes and has them walk in once they should show up in the scene, something you can very frequently observe using a widescreen hack). there's a reason they're called "widescreen hacks" on emulators.
 
LewieP

LewieP

Member
Oct 26, 2017
18,155
You can stretch it or crop it with your TV.

Expecting Microsoft to do so, and deliberately ruin the image in the process is absurd.

4:3 games were designed to be in 4:3. Sure a full on remaster could add 16:9 support, but it's not something you can just enable in games not designed for it.

BC on Xbox One is astonishingly well implemented, but this is not a reasonable request.

The biggest missing feature is Xbox live support, which I could imagine being implemented at some point, but I understand why it's not there.
 
Katarn343

Katarn343

Member
Jan 22, 2018
1,678
México - United States
You really stop noticing it after an hour of playing. I had the same issue when I first launched KotOR on the Xbox One X by honestly I don't even think about it anymore when I play it.
 
wwm0nkey

wwm0nkey

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,636
The Original XDK did have an option to set resolution and if it was 4:3 or 16:9, they are using the resolution option but not the 4:3 or 16:9 because it can stretch out UI elements pretty badly

Qo9iAK3.png
 
Gundam

Gundam

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
12,801
I havent played an OG BC game yet but ive never minded playing older 4:3 games on PC as long as the textures were clear enough and it ran and controlled well tbh.
 
CalamityPixel

CalamityPixel

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,810
you could always duct tape the bottom and top part of your screens lmao

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
w_17.png
 
TheMadTitan

TheMadTitan

Member
Oct 27, 2017
27,370
As others have already stated, forcing emulators to run games in widescreen on PC can sometimes cause issues.

I forced widescreen on the Dreamcast version of Marvel vs Capcom 2, a game where the assets scroll and boundaries are solidified --giving the impression that making things widescreen would be easy since you're just displaying more of what's loaded and scrolling the screen less -- and it screwed up the boundaries as a whole; reaching the edge of the screen would allow you to see the abyss beyond.

I'm the asshole who'll stretch the screen if the game lacks widescreen or a decent hack so it's not that big of a deal to me, but emulation widescreen is tough work.
 
LewieP

LewieP

Member
Oct 26, 2017
18,155
Edge said:
I will never, ever understand people who does that. Disgusting.

It's a shame that they aren't 16:9 but we'll, it's ok, it's native, it's sharp, I don't have any problem with it same with old TV series.
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Some people prefer a distorted image to pillar boxes. I've learnt that there's no point in arguing with them, just don't let them touch your remote.
 
thepenguin55

thepenguin55

Member
Oct 28, 2017
11,881
I'm with you but it's not an easy fix. I do at least wish you could replace the black bars with animated bars. I know putting still images on the sides is bad for TV burn-in but I would imagine putting some optional animation on the sides would be better than black bars as I've definitely gotten image retention off of black bars.

wwm0nkey said:
The Original XDK did have an option to set resolution and if it was 4:3 or 16:9, they are using the resolution option but not the 4:3 or 16:9 because it can stretch out UI elements pretty badly
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I don't love stretched UI but I'll take it over black bars but only if the other game elements/assets aren't also stretched.
 
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