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Deleted member 49319

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What are some other vita hidden gems this thread would recommend?
I totally missed vita out. I played both Coven of Dusk games on PS4.

Yeah, that *is* surprising. I wonder why?
No idea. An ESRB M / CERO D rating is justifiable for nudity, implied sexual assaults, some abusive characters, but it's not that more OTT than the last one.
 

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I played some Miles Morales because it was Christmas but decided to stop after two story missions.
Now back to this dungeon crawling life. Had a -90% debuff on me after taking an elevator but still managed to descend another 500+ floors and was lucky enough to find a wardrobe.
 

Luke88

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The name caught my eye in the MC thread and I super dig it's looks, I added Refrain to my Steam wishlist so that I will remember to look this one up once it's localized.
 

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I can hear my neighbor playing DQXI (those unforgettable BGMs) while I'm playing Galleria.

Theswweet I read your tweet and can totally agree this is secretly the most progressive game of the year (plus great sense of humor).

I am also eyeing on 黄泉ヲ裂ク華 but will probably wait for a sale.
 

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I was thinking of picking up Coven of Dusk as it's on sale at the moment. Worth it?
Yeah, you mean Labyrinth of Refrain, since it's the only Coven of Dusk game available on Steam.
Abosolutely worth it. It's the predecessor to the game we are praising. Great story, solid gameplay, not too hard and difficulty is very customizable.
You can find some impressions on the second page of this thread.
 

Exit Music

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Nov 13, 2017
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Are these the kinds of games that I won't have any idea what I'm doing without reading a guide and I can miss all kinds of things without a guide?
 

AniHawk

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Oct 25, 2017
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I was thinking of picking up Coven of Dusk as it's on sale at the moment. Worth it?

it was the first drpg i played to the very end. the feeling progression is a lot better than disgaea. instead of grinding for grinding's sake (and there is some grinding for some of the superbosses should you go down that route), it feels like you're giving something up for a stronger team. and there's some strategy to figuring out which squads go where, the formations you form, etc. battles can be surprisingly intense.

if you've played a disgaea game before, the story starts off feeling like a darker version of the silly tone disgaea brings. the early parts of the game are not representative of the latter parts, and the way backstory gives weight to the present day happenings and the unraveling of the mystery of refrain is pretty well done.

overall it's like this blend of the squad system and aesthetic of soul nomad, with the tone of the story of phantom brave, all wrapped up in the dungeon rpg genre.
 
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This final boss really does hit like a truck - I see that the Soul Clarity 50+ recommendation is there for a reason. Time to grind!
 

Grahf

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After seeing this thread, I bought Labyrinth of Refrain - Coven of Dusk on Steam yesterday and played it for 6 hours non-stop...
I hadn't played a DRPG since Saturn and Shining the Holy Ark and, oh boy, what did I miss.
If you guys have any good recommendations (on PC preferably but I also have PS4 and Switch) for DRPG of this vein, I'm down for it.
Thanks for pointing/reminding me of these games OP
 

Knurek

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Oct 26, 2017
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After seeing this thread, I bought Labyrinth of Refrain - Coven of Dusk on Steam yesterday and played it for 6 hours non-stop...
I hadn't played a DRPG since Saturn and Shining the Holy Ark and, oh boy, what did I miss.
If you guys have any good recommendations (on PC preferably but I also have PS4 and Switch) for DRPG of this vein, I'm down for it.
Thanks for pointing/reminding me of these games OP
If you're okay with using Desmume/Citra, there's Etrian Odyssey.
Also pretty much anything by Experience Inc is good times, most of their games are on Steam.
If you have a PSVita, try Dungeon Travellers 2 too.
And if you want something different, first 5 Might & Magic games can be had on GOG for $2.50 , World of Xeen with Where Are We? installed alone is worth ten times more.
 

Grahf

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If you're okay with using Desmume/Citra, there's Etrian Odyssey.
Also pretty much anything by Experience Inc is good times, most of their games are on Steam.
If you have a PSVita, try Dungeon Travellers 2 too.
Thanks ! I'm sure they're the one I saw up mentioned most frequently when I was thirsty for DRPG a few years back after replaying Shining the Holy Ark for the 10th time. I'll give them a go after that
 

Deleted member 49319

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After seeing this thread, I bought Labyrinth of Refrain - Coven of Dusk on Steam yesterday and played it for 6 hours non-stop...
I hadn't played a DRPG since Saturn and Shining the Holy Ark and, oh boy, what did I miss.
If you guys have any good recommendations (on PC preferably but I also have PS4 and Switch) for DRPG of this vein, I'm down for it.
Thanks for pointing/reminding me of these games OP
You can emulate Shin Megami Tensei Strange Journey on PC. Still one of my favorite DRPGs.
 

Xadra

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I was checking some screenshots from Gematsu.com and it looks really cool.
I'm completely sold on.

Will play the first on Switch. Hope the second one (Labyrinth of Galleria) can be localize to the West soon, and Switch port.
 
Finished the basegame!
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Hoo boy, the difficulty spike at the very end was something fierce... I managed the first phase of the final boss well enough, but the second phase was a pain. I needed to rework my setup for more mages.

I have to say, I was shocked with how good the story ended up being. I know it's not completely finished yet, but I was blindsided with how good it got in the second half of the game. Refrain's story was good, but Galleria's is unironically fantastic. Well worth the price of admission alone!

How much more difficult is the postgame, any build strats folks would recommend?
 
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I have 2 full teams of mages at CL.99. They demolish everything and use very little DP.
I will probably stop soul transferring from here, since you have diminished return beyond 99.

I'm currently at floor 12xx and it's been really tedious and sometimes infuriating.
 

unholyFarmer

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Jan 22, 2019
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Thanks ! I'm sure they're the one I saw up mentioned most frequently when I was thirsty for DRPG a few years back after replaying Shining the Holy Ark for the 10th time. I'll give them a go after that
If you have a PSVita, try Dungeon Travellers 2 too.
Dungeon Travelers 2 is my favorite DRPG on Vita, amazing game. There is some sensitive content though, like strong sexual fanservice, including a very disturbing loli, so bear this in mind. These are really the only flaws I can think of, other than that the game has an interesting job system, great Japanese VA, fun story, presents a good challenge and is a joy to play.
 
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I have 2 full teams of mages at CL.99. They demolish everything and use very little DP.
I will probably stop soul transferring from here, since you have diminished return beyond 99.

I'm currently at floor 12xx and it's been really tedious and sometimes infuriating.

What's the most efficient way to grind - overloading mana, or is the postgame dungeon good for XP too? Wanna make this as efficient as possible...
 

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What's the most efficient way to grind - overloading mana, or is the postgame dungeon good for XP too? Wanna make this as efficient as possible...
Set the game on hard and carry-over the EXP as long as possible in the postgame dungeon, you can accumulate millions of EXP in no time. The dungeon is split into cycles of 365 floors, the first 100 of each cycles should be a cakewalk.
 

Corine

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Nov 8, 2017
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After seeing this thread, I bought Labyrinth of Refrain - Coven of Dusk on Steam yesterday and played it for 6 hours non-stop...
I hadn't played a DRPG since Saturn and Shining the Holy Ark and, oh boy, what did I miss.
If you guys have any good recommendations (on PC preferably but I also have PS4 and Switch) for DRPG of this vein, I'm down for it.
Thanks for pointing/reminding me of these games OP
I really loved Infinite Adventures on Steam which I beat right before Labyrinth of Refrain. While I liked Refrain better it's still a great one. Plus it has been updated really great. Had a few nice patches just this year.
 

Strings

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Oct 27, 2017
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What are some other vita hidden gems this thread would recommend?
I totally missed vita out. I played both Coven of Dusk games on PS4.


No idea. An ESRB M / CERO D rating is justifiable for nudity, implied sexual assaults, some abusive characters, but it's not that more OTT than the last one.
Stranger of Sword City is another strong DRPG.
 
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I can back up the Stranger of Sword City recommendation. Hopefully Yomi wo Saku Hana will also be up there, once I finish Galleria's postgame!
 

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I plan to get Yomi wo Saku Hana at some time, but I need a more lighthearted game after Galleria.
I advanced 1000 floors tonight, will try to platinum it before 2021.
 
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That first encounter in Grand Cathedral was easier than the last two in Grand Corridor, I swear. Anyways... I got incredibly lucky, and found enough elevators to get to the 3rd section very quickly. Off to a good start, I'd say!
 

EmptyGirl

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Dec 17, 2020
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Thanks for writing about this game! Played Labyrinth of Refrain when it launched in the US but forgot that a sequel was in the works. Refrain was flawed but pretty interesting, and I'm glad to hear that the sequel seems to improve a lot over its predecessor.

I have a few questions about the game if you don't mind answering. First, is the pact system more flexible this time around? Or is there at least more pact variety than in the first game? I felt like Refrain's combat system offered the illusion of depth but was actually mechanically shallow. Like there are so many different character classes, but your choice of class is somewhat insignificant because the classes don't have individual skills, you just stick them into pacts which determine their abilities in combat. Because certain pacts were vastly superior to others, it felt like you were just waiting for progression through the story or quests to give you access to better skills, instead of adapting your combat strategies throughout the game and building your party.

Second, is there more integration between storytelling inside the dungeon vs. outside the dungeon? I found it strange how the main cast of Refrain basically had nothing to say about all the horrifying things that were happening in the dungeons the player explored lol.

Speaking of the story, this is kind of an odd question, but is Galleria as...weird about lesbians as Refrain was? I won't go into too much detail to avoid spoilers for those who haven't played the first title, but two of the female characters in Refrain have strong romantic subtext with each other. But instead of being more explicit about that subtext or allowing the characters to confess to each other, the game is almost spiteful in how it prevents those two characters from ever being together and subjects them to varying degrees of sexual trauma in retribution. Oh, and the only character in Refrain explicitly attracted to women also happens to be a walking psycho lesbian stereotype who tries to sexually assault one of the main characters near the beginning of the game. Sigh. Is there anything that fraught in Galleria? I don't know if I can handle that kind of anguish again.
 
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Thanks for writing about this game! Played Labyrinth of Refrain when it launched in the US but forgot that a sequel was in the works. Refrain was flawed but pretty interesting, and I'm glad to hear that the sequel seems to improve a lot over its predecessor.

I have a few questions about the game if you don't mind answering. First, is the pact system more flexible this time around? Or is there at least more pact variety than in the first game? I felt like Refrain's combat system offered the illusion of depth but was actually mechanically shallow. Like there are so many different character classes, but your choice of class is somewhat insignificant because the classes don't have individual skills, you just stick them into pacts which determine their abilities in combat. Because certain pacts were vastly superior to others, it felt like you were just waiting for progression through the story or quests to give you access to better skills, instead of adapting your combat strategies throughout the game and building your party.

Second, is there more integration between storytelling inside the dungeon vs. outside the dungeon? I found it strange how the main cast of Refrain basically had nothing to say about all the horrifying things that were happening in the dungeons the player explored lol.

Speaking of the story, this is kind of an odd question, but is Galleria as...weird about lesbians as Refrain was? I won't go into too much detail to avoid spoilers for those who haven't played the first title, but two of the female characters in Refrain have strong romantic subtext with each other. But instead of being more explicit about that subtext or allowing the characters to confess to each other, the game is almost spiteful in how it prevents those two characters from ever being together and subjects them to varying degrees of sexual trauma in retribution. Oh, and the only character in Refrain explicitly attracted to women also happens to be a walking psycho lesbian stereotype who tries to sexually assault one of the main characters near the beginning of the game. Sigh. Is there anything that fraught in Galleria? I don't know if I can handle that kind of anguish again.

To be blunt, there's less storytelling overall in the dungeons this time around - and what remains of it directly ties into stuff happening outside of it. It's a different type of story overall, and much more character-focused anyway.

It's not as weird about lesbians as Refrain. If anything, the game handles even more LGBTQ+ topics, and it deals with them fairly well...
 

Tizoc

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I've seen your posts about it on Twitter and am looking forward to playing it.
I will attempt to get and play Refrain someday too.
 

SammyJ9

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To be blunt, there's less storytelling overall in the dungeons this time around - and what remains of it directly ties into stuff happening outside of it. It's a different type of story overall, and much more character-focused anyway.

It's not as weird about lesbians as Refrain. If anything, the game handles even more LGBTQ+ topics, and it deals with them fairly well...
Does it still have the... well... the only way I can really describe it is "Jarring tonal shifts" that were in Refrain? Like, in Refrain you'd be happily exploring the labyrinth, then you'd get a cutscene back with the witch and girl that's fairly innocuous, then do more labyrinth, then get another cutscene that's suddenly SUPER dark almost out of nowhere? Or creepy/weird?

I did come to really like the characters in the first game and found it surprisingly heartfelt towards the end, but especially in the early to midgame it did that kind of thing a LOT.
 

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Thanks for writing about this game! Played Labyrinth of Refrain when it launched in the US but forgot that a sequel was in the works. Refrain was flawed but pretty interesting, and I'm glad to hear that the sequel seems to improve a lot over its predecessor.

I have a few questions about the game if you don't mind answering. First, is the pact system more flexible this time around? Or is there at least more pact variety than in the first game? I felt like Refrain's combat system offered the illusion of depth but was actually mechanically shallow. Like there are so many different character classes, but your choice of class is somewhat insignificant because the classes don't have individual skills, you just stick them into pacts which determine their abilities in combat. Because certain pacts were vastly superior to others, it felt like you were just waiting for progression through the story or quests to give you access to better skills, instead of adapting your combat strategies throughout the game and building your party.

Second, is there more integration between storytelling inside the dungeon vs. outside the dungeon? I found it strange how the main cast of Refrain basically had nothing to say about all the horrifying things that were happening in the dungeons the player explored lol.

Speaking of the story, this is kind of an odd question, but is Galleria as...weird about lesbians as Refrain was? I won't go into too much detail to avoid spoilers for those who haven't played the first title, but two of the female characters in Refrain have strong romantic subtext with each other. But instead of being more explicit about that subtext or allowing the characters to confess to each other, the game is almost spiteful in how it prevents those two characters from ever being together and subjects them to varying degrees of sexual trauma in retribution. Oh, and the only character in Refrain explicitly attracted to women also happens to be a walking psycho lesbian stereotype who tries to sexually assault one of the main characters near the beginning of the game. Sigh. Is there anything that fraught in Galleria? I don't know if I can handle that kind of anguish again.
I don't remember too much of Refrain's gameplay since it's been three years, but I will try.

The significance of classes is shown in their passive skills (weapon mastery, dual wielding, increased agility, etc) which can be inherited when you soul transfer a character. This may be not a big deal in Refrain since you can beat the game without soul transferring once, but you have to do this a lot in Galleria. Thus understanding the passive skills of each class and planning the transferring route is important if you want an easier time with the later half of the game.

There are more pacts in this Galleria and I've found most of later ones interesting. The superior pacts usually don't appear better at first and require much patience to level up and unlock skills (some good ones I have used are usually trash at first and takes a lot of reinforce points, then breaks the game after leveling up to 6/7) , which makes early pacts useful to keep. Magic is also nerfed, not as OP as it was in Refrain, though you still break the game when you can build an army of eight lv99 mages.

I'll say the depth is there, especially when you can try different weird formations out and figure out solution to different bosses. Though I found myself abusing the same strategies over and over after one difficult boss fight because it seems the optimal way.

Does it still have the... well... the only way I can really describe it is "Jarring tonal shifts" that were in Refrain? Like, in Refrain you'd be happily exploring the labyrinth, then you'd get a cutscene back with the witch and girl that's fairly innocuous, then do more labyrinth, then get another cutscene that's suddenly SUPER dark almost out of nowhere? Or creepy/weird?
No, what happens in the labyrinth is an integral part of the story.
Also the creepiness is very well contained. It's an lgbt-positive game.
 
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Yeah, Galleria doesn't have nearly as bad tonal shifts as Refrain. They're still there, but they're handled with care, and they feel like they're less for shock value as a result. It still gets *very* dark, but it's smart about when it chooses to do so.

Also yeah Galleria is "acknowledges a trans character and helps them transition" LGBT-positive, with both genderneutral Facets and an Intersex one too.
 

blonded

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Oct 30, 2017
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How "difficult" is the Japanese in this game? Is there a lot of uncommon kanji/vocab?
 

EmptyGirl

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Dec 17, 2020
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To be blunt, there's less storytelling overall in the dungeons this time around - and what remains of it directly ties into stuff happening outside of it. It's a different type of story overall, and much more character-focused anyway.

It's not as weird about lesbians as Refrain. If anything, the game handles even more LGBTQ+ topics, and it deals with them fairly well...
I don't remember too much of Refrain's gameplay since it's been three years, but I will try.

The significance of classes is shown in their passive skills (weapon mastery, dual wielding, increased agility, etc) which can be inherited when you soul transfer a character. This may be not a big deal in Refrain since you can beat the game without soul transferring once, but you have to do this a lot in Galleria. Thus understanding the passive skills of each class and planning the transferring route is important if you want an easier time with the later half of the game.

There are more pacts in this Galleria and I've found most of later ones interesting. The superior pacts usually don't appear better at first and require much patience to level up and unlock skills (some good ones I have used are usually trash at first and takes a lot of reinforce points, then breaks the game after leveling up to 6/7) , which makes early pacts useful to keep. Magic is also nerfed, not as OP as it was in Refrain, though you still break the game when you can build an army of eight lv99 mages.

I'll say the depth is there, especially when you can try different weird formations out and figure out solution to different bosses. Though I found myself abusing the same strategies over and over after one difficult boss fight because it seems the optimal way.

Thank you both for the responses! Glad to hear that most of the elements of Refrain that bothered me have been improved in the sequel. Really hoping this gets localized now.

Interesting that Galleria actually requires you to use the soul transfer system. I never finished the postgame of Refrain, but like you said the main campaign never required using the system. In fact I think I auto battled through nearly every encounter in the game except for bosses and mid bosses (and this wasn't on easy mode).
 

eXistor

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Oct 27, 2017
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I finished the main story of Refrain this afternoon (49 hours). Overall I enjoyed it, but it wasn't without its issues. I'm still on the fence if I wanna do the post-game or not. I never bothered with Soul Transfer, but I imagine it'll become a requirement if I wanna survive the post-game. Is it much more difficult than the main game, which I found to be pretty forgivable?
 
Finished the postgame/got the true ending!
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...after 126 hours logged, the true ending (and the plat trophy) are mine!

What a journey. You definitely don't really get closure until the post-game this time around, for better or worse. Also... a bit of an inspired take to make the gear inflation happen once you reach Grand Cathedral. At that point it's less about how many times you've soul transferred your units, and more about what skills you've transferred onto them, pacts, and equipment.

I can definitely say that the final dungeon will be... contentious, to put it mildly. I think it was a really neat idea, and it fits thematically, but I wouldn't blame anyone for getting frustrated with it. It's so long, and how much of it you'll *actually* have to do is so dependent on luck. I still enjoyed it (somehow), but I won't be doing it again anytime soon, that's for sure.
 

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...after 126 hours logged, the true ending (and the plat trophy) are mine!

What a journey. You definitely don't really get closure until the post-game this time around, for better or worse. Also... a bit of an inspired take to make the gear inflation happen once you reach Grand Cathedral. At that point it's less about how many times you've soul transferred your units, and more about what skills you've transferred onto them, pacts, and equipment.

I can definitely say that the final dungeon will be... contentious, to put it mildly. I think it was a really neat idea, and it fits thematically, but I wouldn't blame anyone for getting frustrated with it. It's so long, and how much of it you'll *actually* have to do is so dependent on luck. I still enjoyed it (somehow), but I won't be doing it again anytime soon, that's for sure.
Congrats.
I started to lose grip of the story and questioned myself why was I doing this when I reached 3000F.
And I think that makes sense thematically also fits
the name of the final boss
.
 
"Labyrinth of Galleria's storytelling exceeded expectations, and left the greatest impact from 2020" (Famitsu)
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Found this Famitsu recommendation/review come across my twitter feed, and the title alone sums up my thoughts;

www.famitsu.com

『ガレリアの地下迷宮と魔女ノ旅団』予想を超える展開のストーリーは2020年最大のインパクトだった。総勢40体の旅団を率いるバトル&育成も激アツ【年末年始おすすめゲームレビュー】 | ゲーム・エンタメ最新情報のファミ通.com

ファミ通.comの編集者&ライターが年末年始のおすすめゲームを紹介していく連載企画。ライターのウワーマンがいまいちばん推したい作品は、日本一ソフトウェアの『ガレリアの地下迷宮と魔女ノ旅団』です。

"Labyrinth of Galleria's storytelling exceeded expectations, and left the greatest impact from 2020"
 
I Hate That I Can't Talk About Why I Love Labyrinth of Galleria
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Wrote up a little something about my thoughts re:Galleria. Namely, how hard it actually is to talk about what makes it so great without spoiling things:

I Hate That I Can't Talk About Why I Love Labyrinth of Galleria | RPG Site

One of games storytelling's greatest strengths can also be its greatest curse; James extols about these complicated feelings with Labyrinth of Galleria.