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Deleted member 3812

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,821
The LA Times has reported that scientists are indeed recommending people to wear face masks because current research is showing that the coronavirus can spread people to people simply by breathing and talking, however it is being emphasized that it is currently unknown whether enough of the virus is expelled through breathing and talking is at a dangerous level and that more research is needed to answer that question whether or not enough of the virus is expelled through breathing and talking is dangerous or not:

www.latimes.com

The new coronavirus might spread when people talk, but scientists say masks can help

It's possible that the new coronavirus can spread from person to person simply by talking, or even breathing, according to preliminary studies.

APRIL 4, 2020

It's possible that the new coronavirus can spread from person to person simply by talking, or even breathing, according to new guidance from the National Academies of Sciences, Engineering and Medicine.

The limited studies examined by a National Academies committee on emerging infectious diseases suggest that people who are infected with the novel virus may exhale infectious "bioaerosols" — although if they do, it's not clear whether the amount would be enough to make another person sick.

"The results of available studies are consistent with aerosolization of virus from normal breathing," the head of the committee, Dr. Harvey Fineberg, wrote in a letter to to Kelvin K. Droegemeier, the director of the White House Office of Science and Technology Policy.

The letter was drafted to answer a question posed by Droegemeier: Can the virus responsible for COVID-19 spread through conversation?

To formulate an answer, the committee considered a study posted last week by a team from the University of Nebraska Medical Center. Researchers there collected air samples from 11 isolation rooms where COVID-19 patients were treated. They also looked for evidence of the virus on surfaces.

The researchers found viral RNA in air that was captured more than six feet from patients. They also found it in air from the hallway outside patient rooms, according to the study.

Notably, the researchers said none of the patients were seen coughing while air samples were being taken.

"You don't have to be hacking, coughing ... in order to be producing a particle that at least has viral RNA in it," study leader Joshua Santarpia, a professor of pathology and microbiology at the University of Nebraska Medical Center, said in an interview.

The study was published on a website for time-sensitive medical research and has not been through the traditional peer-review process.

In summarizing the findings, Fineberg wrote: "While this research indicates that viral particles can be spread via bioaerosols, the authors stated that finding infectious virus has proved elusive."

He added that the Nebraska team is conducting additional experiments to see whether the amount of virus in their air samples is dangerous.

Dr. George Rutherford, epidemiologist and infectious diseases expert at UC San Francisco, said he wasn't surprised that the virus could spread by breathing and talking.

"Think of what your breath looks like when you go to Mammoth Mountain and you can see it — those are respiratory droplets," he said. "Of course, you can get it while you're talking to somebody. If you're within six feet, you're at some risk for that."

Infected droplets can also spread in the air by singing, Rutherford said, citing the case of a choir practice in Washington state last month. A total of 45 people who attended that practice were diagnosed with COVID-19; two have died and at least three have been hospitalized.

The National Academies letter also highlighted a study, which was published Friday as a brief communication in the journal Nature Medicine, that suggests surgical masks can help keep an infected person from transmitting the virus to others.
 

Rockets

Member
Sep 12, 2018
3,020
This virus is truly the perfect storm. I'm scared that even if we get rid of it another virus will take its place in the future with similar levels of contagiousness
 

Cappa

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,146
Click bait article there is no scientific research that specifically states this and the few studies that have shown covid19 to be "suspended in air for a few hours" were done under perfect lab conditions and using a nebulizer(meaning no one coughs or breathes like that).

I am not anti mask but if transmission were so "easy" as this click bait article suggests this would be much much much much worse and it would be utter chaos in countries like Italy and Spain right now.
 

AlexBasch

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,348
I was mildly scared of getting the disease this way and seeing this kinda validated my fears. I'll see if I can get my groceries delivered, it's the only reason I stepped out of my house and I'm working towards shutting myself down from ever going out aside from picking stuff from the porch.
 

Kieli

Self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
3,736
Click bait article there is no scientific research that specifically states this and the few studies that have shown covid19 to be "suspended in air for a few hours" were done under perfect lab conditions and using a nebulizer(meaning no one coughs or breathes like that).

I am not anti mask but if transmission were so "easy" as this click bait article suggests this would be much much much much worse and it would be utter chaos in countries like Italy and Spain right now.

Implying things aren't utter chaos in Italy and Spain right now.

Also, Anthony Fauci, the head of the Coronavirus task force stated in the PBS Newshour that there is nascent research showing that the virus may be transmitted by mere speech.

Do I trust Dr. Fauci, or do I trust a random poster on Resetera claiming it's a nothingburger?

Edit: I'm even going to timestamp the video where he said that for you, give me a moment.

Edit 2: Here's the timestamp of the question and the response. I highly doubt someone of Dr. Fauci's caliber and experience would throw suggestions out on a lark unless he's though very carefully about their implications and that the benefits outweigh the harms.
 

Cappa

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,146
Implying things aren't utter chaos in Italy and Spain right now.

Also, Anthony Fauci, the head of the Coronavirus task force stated in the PBS Newshour that there is nascent research showing that the virus may be transmitted by mere speech.

Do I trust Dr. Fauci, or do I trust a random poster on Resetera claiming it's a nothingburger?

Edit: I'm even going to timestamp the video where he said that for you, give me a moment.

Edit 2: Here's the timestamp of the question and the response. I highly doubt someone of Dr. Fauci's caliber and experience would throw suggestions out on a lark unless he's though very carefully about their implications and that the benefits outweigh the harms.
I live in Spain, it's not. And no one is asking you to trust me. Do yourself a favor and read r/covid19 and stop reading clickbait articles.
 

Zojirushi

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,313
I mean I assumed that was the case otherwise how would all these hotspots like carnival in Germany where lots of people got infected all at once work? It's not like one infected person walks around and sneezes in everyones face dead on
 

jstevenson

Developer at Insomniac Games
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
2,043
Burbank CA
What's crazy is the Germans had basically proved this in a study around a month or so ago.

-note it's mostly to spread if you are indoors / recycled air, and sitting next to or near someone who has it for a period of time That person could still be asymptomatic and spreading it merely through normal breathing.
 

devilhawk

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,536
As a biologist I want two studies. I want transmission potentials and viral load correlation. I want viral load and disease severity correlation. I don't have either.
 

_Karooo

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,029
DUDE this shit is extremely contagious. People are getting infected just by being near to an infected person.
 

Smoolio

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
2,877
If this is the case wouldn't everything but properly applied N95 masks still no nothing for those that are not sick? Ie. you would just breath it in around the sides of the mask.

Please correct me if wrong, troubling.
 

Atolm

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,844
Even I wanted to, there's zero masks for sale in my country (Spain). They all go to the hospitals, understandably.
 

Feep

Lead Designer, Iridium Studios
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
4,623
This virus is truly the perfect storm. I'm scared that even if we get rid of it another virus will take its place in the future with similar levels of contagiousness
There is a reasonable viewpoint that this virus could help us prepare for another similar, yet even more devastating epidemic in the future.

Of course, that would require us to, you know, learn.
 

Kintaro

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,331
it pisses me off that now they are starting to recommend wearing masks when that shit should have happened a long time ago. Err on the side of caution. This health professionals have dropped the ball imo.
 
Dec 4, 2017
3,097
The fact that the disease had a noticeably reduced spread in those places (Japan, South Korea) where people are used to wear masks for pretty much any reason (ex. being hungover, or not wanting to put on make-up) was an early tell.
 
Oct 27, 2017
3,731
There is not enough masks as it is, this shot just encourages outsole to hoard more. They should be kept for medical personal and the infectious.
 

Keldroc

Member
Oct 27, 2017
12,024
This is how a lot of flu spreads, so sure, sounds reasonable. You still need a fair bit of viral load delivered to stand a real chance of infection, though. A cough is a much more concentrated blast than just normal talking.

Can one make masks out of old t-shirts? There are no masks to be found right now.

Yes, but keep in mind that the purpose of a mask now is just to prevent your own breath and spittle from flying out of your mouth when you exhale or talk. It's not to protect you from the virus, is to protect everyone else from your potential to contaminate your environment. If 70-80% of people start covering their mouth and nose when they go out in public, even with something as simple as a scarf, it would theoretically cut down transmission significantly.
 

Crackhead_Bob

Banned
Nov 1, 2017
1,865
You need respirator masks for such kind protections as they make the air breathable without any harm (hence the name). You need sophisticated filters to make such masks.

How are we supposed to protect ourselves in the interim? People have to work? And they have to restock on groceries and supplies? Why hasn't this become an issue yet? Are we going to have to wait for the dipshit red states to begin dropping like flies before some urgency gains foot?
 

antonz

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,309
How are we supposed to protect ourselves in the interim? People have to work? And they have to restock on groceries and supplies? Why hasn't this become an issue yet? Are we going to have to wait for the dipshit red states to begin dropping like flies before some urgency gains foot?
When the death toll starts to rocket up in trump states is when you will see Trump finally try to do something. In the interim things are going to get much worse. My local grocery stores are getting to the point they could realistically shutdown for half the week due to lack of supplies. The last fortress of supplies the frozen pizza section is about to be completely gone with the rest of the store leaving my local stores essentially with Soda and Alcohol being the only stuff they have decent supply of
 

Crackhead_Bob

Banned
Nov 1, 2017
1,865
When the death toll starts to rocket up in trump states is when you will see Trump finally try to do something. In the interim things are going to get much worse. My local grocery stores are getting to the point they could realistically shutdown for half the week due to lack of supplies. The last fortress of supplies the frozen pizza section is about to be completely gone with the rest of the store leaving my local stores essentially with Soda and Alcohol being the only stuff they have decent supply of

That's terrible. Where do you live? I live in Western N.Y. and you can find just about everything you need prior to this mess, with the exception of toilet paper and dried pasta.
 

Azraes

Member
Oct 28, 2017
997
London
Posted this on the UK thread on Friday. There's still considerable debate but there are convincing signs and studies that breathing can in fact transmit it. Posted sources in quotes.

SARS-COV-2 can be transmitted via breathing. The debate began in the US last week. I was waiting to see how many experts would take this side before spreading the message myself. Wear masks - it is better to err on the side of caution rather than not. Also means wear something to cover your face.

There has been considerable debate everywhere on how effective masks are and Asian countries have been recommending them from the start. How South Korea tackled their shortage.

I like the New Yorker's take on wear bandanas or masks but don't hoard purchase the PPE that medical workers and essential workers need.

Please note that this doesn't take away social distancing, washing hands, not touching your face, etc but given how it transmits and how more scientists and experts now state this, just do it. Don't panic but stay safe.
 

Hoo-doo

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,292
The Netherlands
The mask 'naysayers' exist because articles like these lead to regular folk hoarding and buying up medical mask supplies leading to shortages for the people in healthcare that actually need them to treat sick patients.

It's common knowledge that these masks could potentially reduce spread (likely minimal). But staying home and avoiding human contact will do much more to protect you and your families.

Make your own makeshift mask if you absolutely need to go out and interact with people.
 

KtSlime

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,910
Tokyo
There is not enough masks as it is, this shot just encourages outsole to hoard more. They should be kept for medical personal and the infectious.
The problem with saying they should be for the infectious is fine, until you remember that people can have and spread the virus for almost 2 weeks before showing any signs. Everyone needs to wear masks, even if it is made from an old cloth.
 

Ruddles

Member
Oct 17, 2018
359
Click bait article there is no scientific research that specifically states this and the few studies that have shown covid19 to be "suspended in air for a few hours" were done under perfect lab conditions and using a nebulizer(meaning no one coughs or breathes like that).

I am not anti mask but if transmission were so "easy" as this click bait article suggests this would be much much much much worse and it would be utter chaos in countries like Italy and Spain right now.

Great post. If people could be infected by normal breathing and talking then R would not be 2.5, instead R would be in the 100s. To me this falls In the category of fear-mongering.
 

Eeyore

User requested ban
Banned
Dec 13, 2019
9,029
Great post. If people could be infected by normal breathing and talking then R would not be 2.5, instead R would be in the 100s. To me this falls In the category of fear-mongering.

Why do you think places like South Korea and Japan have been more successful at containing this outbreak than places like the UK and the United States?
 

Terranigma

Member
Oct 27, 2017
891
The mass infection of the choir in Washington raised a lot of concern about this.

www.latimes.com

A choir decided to go ahead with rehearsal. Now dozens of members have COVID-19 and two are dead

The deadly outbreak among members of a choir has stunned health officials, who have concluded that the virus was almost certainly transmitted through the air from one or more people without symptoms.

But in that instance they were in that room together for a few hours, also lots of singing, which projects the voice harder, which obviously allows for more possible spread than regular talking and breathing would.
 

Afrikan

Member
Oct 28, 2017
17,074

antonz

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,309
That's terrible. Where do you live? I live in Western N.Y. and you can find just about everything you need prior to this mess, with the exception of toilet paper and dried pasta.
I am in the Phoenix area. I am sure it may vary by some stores but the stores around me are practically wiped out. Pasta,canned goods,frozen almost entirely gone. If you need Coke or Beer though you can get all you need. Just been buying enough to go 2 weeks at a time. Have some emergency storage food if there is a really rough patch but its an issue of just getting supply out really. Stores are used to like 2 trucks a week to stay stocked up. Now they need 10+ trucks a week and there is no magic print new truck driver buttons
 

Ruddles

Member
Oct 17, 2018
359
Why do you think places like South Korea and Japan have been more successful at containing this outbreak than places like the UK and the United States?

Extensive track and tracing was by far the biggest contributor in South Korea, along with aggressive quarantining.
www.theguardian.com

South Korea took rapid, intrusive measures against Covid-19 – and they worked | Alexis Dudden and Andrew Marks

The country acted fast when the virus began to spread. Strict quarantine measures and testing have helped to curb it, say Alexis Dudden, history professor, and Andrew Marks, chair of physiology

Wearing masks almost certainly had an additional benefit. We should do that in the West, and do better with track and trace as well.

BUT, I stand by my previous comment, I don't believe that normal breathing and talking significantly contribute to transmission, because that theory doesn't fit with the observed evidence that R is around 2.5. If breathing and talking significantly contributed to R then it would be in the 100s.

Still, you're free to think differently. I mean, better safe than sorry, right?
 

Eeyore

User requested ban
Banned
Dec 13, 2019
9,029
Extensive track and tracing was by far the biggest contributor in South Korea, along with aggressive quarantining.
www.theguardian.com

South Korea took rapid, intrusive measures against Covid-19 – and they worked | Alexis Dudden and Andrew Marks

The country acted fast when the virus began to spread. Strict quarantine measures and testing have helped to curb it, say Alexis Dudden, history professor, and Andrew Marks, chair of physiology

Wearing masks almost certainly had an additional benefit. We should do that in the West, and do better with track and trace as well.

BUT, I stand by my previous comment, I don't believe that normal breathing and talking significantly contribute to transmission, because that theory doesn't fit with the observed evidence that R is around 2.5. If breathing and talking significantly contributed to R then it would be in the 100s.

Still, you're free to think differently. I mean, better safe than sorry, right?

Well personally I plan on not going outside until this is resolved. And if I did have to for any reason, I would be properly covered. However, I would rather not have any sort of raid on mask supplies so they can be used by medical professionals so I realize it's a complicated thing.
 
Oct 27, 2017
3,731
The problem with saying they should be for the infectious is fine, until you remember that people can have and spread the virus for almost 2 weeks before showing any signs. Everyone needs to wear masks, even if it is made from an old cloth.

I'd much rather people focus on the things that are shown to help more, social distancing and hand washing. People tend to focus on the wrong shit, like hoarding toilet rolls.

You can pick it up in many ways, but not all scenarios have the same risk of picking it up. People still aren't focusing enough on the high risk stuff.
 

Crackhead_Bob

Banned
Nov 1, 2017
1,865
I am in the Phoenix area. I am sure it may vary by some stores but the stores around me are practically wiped out. Pasta,canned goods,frozen almost entirely gone. If you need Coke or Beer though you can get all you need. Just been buying enough to go 2 weeks at a time. Have some emergency storage food if there is a really rough patch but its an issue of just getting supply out really. Stores are used to like 2 trucks a week to stay stocked up. Now they need 10+ trucks a week and there is no magic print new truck driver buttons

I'm really sorry to hear. I don't know what the politics are in Arizona. Are things as dire in Arizona as they are in California and Washington? I know they've mobilized on the local level, but Arizona's typically considered a red state, so would that make any difference? Or is it overlooked on account that it's not any of the inbred red states in the south east?

And how seriously is Arizona taking coronavirus right now? My sister lives in Pennsylvania, and she says that most people in her community have been responsible.
 

nel e nel

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,134
Implying things aren't utter chaos in Italy and Spain right now.

Also, Anthony Fauci, the head of the Coronavirus task force stated in the PBS Newshour that there is nascent research showing that the virus may be transmitted by mere speech.

Do I trust Dr. Fauci, or do I trust a random poster on Resetera claiming it's a nothingburger?

Edit: I'm even going to timestamp the video where he said that for you, give me a moment.

Edit 2: Here's the timestamp of the question and the response. I highly doubt someone of Dr. Fauci's caliber and experience would throw suggestions out on a lark unless he's though very carefully about their implications and that the benefits outweigh the harms.

Well, here's the closing paragraphs from the article in the OP

In summarizing the findings, Fineberg wrote: "While this research indicates that viral particles can be spread via bioaerosols, the authors stated that finding infectious virus has proved elusive."

He added that the Nebraska team is conducting additional experiments to see whether the amount of virus in their air samples is dangerous.
 
Last edited:

Netherscourge

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,026
We'll find out in a week or two of everyone wearing masks AND washing hands.

I'm guessing there is some psychological "placebo" effect happening with the masks.

But, if this has led to people going out more and the masks wind up being ineffective, well, the CDC and everyone else suggesting it just cost a lot more lives.