• Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.

FliX

Master of the Reality Stone
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
9,867
Metro Detroit


tl;dr: Geoengineering is inherently risky, it's no solution to climate change but might be a welcome excuse for the largest emitters today to delay meaningful change. It could buy is some years when shit hits the fan though, so research in and discussions about geoengineering should continue.

Also watched a DW documentary on the topic recently which was really interesting.




[edit]
This from the recommendations is also quite good.
 
Last edited:

maxxpower

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,950
California
Global warming threads barely get any replies here. Goes to show you how much people don't care about it. There's this thing called planting trees, which if strategically done, can reduce CO2 levels to unprecedented levels. But of course there's no profits in it so gives a shit right.
 

Man God

Member
Oct 25, 2017
38,301
Global warming threads barely get any replies here. Goes to show you how much people don't care about it. There's this thing called planting trees, which if strategically done, can reduce CO2 levels to unprecedented levels. But of course there's no profits in it so gives a shit right.
There's actually a ton of profit in it if you plant the right trees.
 

Doggg

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Nov 17, 2017
14,442
Terrifying, but I agree that it's something we'll likely consider -- possibly after things have already gone to shit, though. And I'd imagine geoengineering itself will be a huge source of conflict -- who controls it controls the world, after all (or trying to, after all).
 

Bobson Dugnutt

Self Requested Ban
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,052
Global warming threads barely get any replies here. Goes to show you how much people don't care about it. There's this thing called planting trees, which if strategically done, can reduce CO2 levels to unprecedented levels. But of course there's no profits in it so gives a shit right.

of course there's potential profit in that lol. which isn't to say it shouldn't be done by government, charities, non profits etc and that we shouldn't rely on big business to save the day.
 

steejee

Member
Oct 28, 2017
8,605
I feel like Geoengineering is rapidly becoming the last ditch option that we have no choice but to utilize.

The one option (at least for climate change, not for other issues) that seems the least likely to have major unintended consequences would be the sunshade: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_sunshade Simple, in space rather than down here, not particularly crazy cost wise.
 

Hasseigaku

Member
Oct 30, 2017
3,538
I'm pretty sure this is going to happen no matter if it's the right thing to do or not.

It allows people to avoid responsibility for their behavior and may cool things relatively cheaply and quickly.

The problem is that we are not long-term thinkers. Even it it works as advertised eventually someone is going to balk at paying for it.
 

Rocket Man

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,509
Haven't watched the video yet but geoengineering would be the absolute dumbest thing we can possibly do. The risks and probability of those risks happening are so high in a choatic system like the climate that we might as well just give up anyway. Some options may be good, but going balls to the wall like blocking sunlight with particulate matter would be beyond stupid.

It would be more feasible to just make a giant, inefficient and expensive carbon capture and storage system all over the world to try to suck out the GHGs from the atmosphere.
 

KillerMan91

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,354
Global warming threads barely get any replies here. Goes to show you how much people don't care about it. There's this thing called planting trees, which if strategically done, can reduce CO2 levels to unprecedented levels. But of course there's no profits in it so gives a shit right.
Not completely true

imrs.php


For example Europe has more forests than it has had in 100 years. Wood can be used to make a lot of things (Europe has various big pulp and paper companies) and forests grow better when they are handled with care.
 
OP
OP
FliX

FliX

Master of the Reality Stone
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
9,867
Metro Detroit
Terrifying, but I agree that it's something we'll likely consider -- possibly after things have already gone to shit, though. And I'd imagine geoengineering itself will be a huge source of conflict -- who controls it controls the world, after all (or trying to, after all).
Your post reminded me of this.
 

bombermouse

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,056
I saw the video this morning, I'm glad they address my biggest fear. ie, cool, we have a solution. Let's keep going.
 

leder

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,111
Global warming threads barely get any replies here. Goes to show you how much people don't care about it. There's this thing called planting trees, which if strategically done, can reduce CO2 levels to unprecedented levels. But of course there's no profits in it so gives a shit right.
I think it's less that people don't care, more that there is really not much new discussion to be added to most climate change topics.
 

Zen

The Wise Ones
Member
Nov 1, 2017
9,657
I think it's less that people don't care, more that there is really not much new discussion to be added to most climate change topics.
I think there's merit to showing some interest and being learned of things happening. Understandably the US presidential election is what's front and center right now though. Can't get anything done if the people in power are fascists who put profit and petty hatred over the future of humanity.
 

leder

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,111
Not completely true

imrs.php


For example Europe has more forests than it has had in 100 years. Wood can be used to make a lot of things (Europe has various big pulp and paper companies) and forests grow better when they are handled with care.
Same in the US. There's 3-4 times as much forest as there was 100 years ago. A lot of it is because of the forestry industry believe it or not.
 

RisingStar

Banned
Oct 8, 2019
4,849
Same in the US. There's 3-4 times as much forest as there was 100 years ago. A lot of it is because of the forestry industry believe it or not.
Yep. I think the main concern is that it's not off-setting the effects of increase usage of fossil fuel. Europe as a whole was a mess 100 years ago as well to be fair.
 

captive

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,991
Houston
Global warming threads barely get any replies here. Goes to show you how much people don't care about it. There's this thing called planting trees, which if strategically done, can reduce CO2 levels to unprecedented levels. But of course there's no profits in it so gives a shit right.
apparently you haven't seen the cost of trees lately?

There's a ton of profit for people to grow and sell trees, and then people who plant them get paid to. And finally home owners raise their property value and get the benefit of said trees.
 

Neo C.

Member
Nov 9, 2017
2,995
Global warming threads barely get any replies here. Goes to show you how much people don't care about it. There's this thing called planting trees, which if strategically done, can reduce CO2 levels to unprecedented levels. But of course there's no profits in it so gives a shit right.
It can be very profitable if we genetically engineer some kind of trees to have rapid growth and huge CO2 intake. I'm fully on board with geoengineering: Whatever it takes, we must slow down the climate change!
 

Hasseigaku

Member
Oct 30, 2017
3,538
People really need to get their arse in gear and stop thinking miniscule progress is good.



It's been time to get our arse in gear, there are many impediments to doing so, however.

As much as I hope I'm wrong, I feel like the way we've handled COVID gives us hints as to how we'll handle a future with disturbed climate.
 

T the Talking Clock

The Fallen
Jul 12, 2018
140
Man, it's just so depressing. You can't help but assume the worst since powerful interest groups benefit from killing the planet.

We fucked, yo.
 

Aske

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
5,573
Canadia
Global warming threads barely get any replies here. Goes to show you how much people don't care about it. There's this thing called planting trees, which if strategically done, can reduce CO2 levels to unprecedented levels. But of course there's no profits in it so gives a shit right.

I think we all care, but we're emotionally burnt out on specific people and groups of people being treated like shit right now. There are no fucks left for the inevitable climate crisis.
 

killerrin

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,237
Toronto
I feel like Geoengineering is rapidly becoming the last ditch option that we have no choice but to utilize.

The one option (at least for climate change, not for other issues) that seems the least likely to have major unintended consequences would be the sunshade: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_sunshade Simple, in space rather than down here, not particularly crazy cost wise.
I'm terms of best bang for the buck option. A space mirror isn't the worst. Hell once we've mitigated climate change you can even repurpose it into a reflector to help heat up the atmosphere of Mars by bouncing additional light into the planet
 

jett

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
44,653
Man, it's just so depressing. You can't help but assume the worst since powerful interest groups benefit from killing the planet.

We fucked, yo.
I think the issue is more that our entire way of life revolves around carbon emissions, basically. We're going to need a miracle/technological breakthrough to turn this around.
 

Mr Paptimus

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,231
Global warming threads barely get any replies here. Goes to show you how much people don't care about it. There's this thing called planting trees, which if strategically done, can reduce CO2 levels to unprecedented levels. But of course there's no profits in it so gives a shit right.

I can't speak for anyone else, but I care a lot but these threads get me so depressed I rarely go into them. Maybe I'm overreacting a little bit but ever since I heard the term "clathate gun" thinking too much about it just make me feel sick. I donate money but I just can't get too involved.

It's like the scene from Austin Powers where the guy gets run over by a steamroller. He sees it coming, has plenty of time to move but he still gets run over. I feel like that's basically the human rights at this point. if aliens exist they're laughing their asses off at us.
 
Oct 27, 2017
7,671
I think the issue is more that our entire way of life revolves around carbon emissions, basically. We're going to need a miracle/technological breakthrough to turn this around.
It's called nuclear power. We are just too ignorant as a society to fully grasp its potential. It is literally the only current technology that can save us from ourselves. Thankfully, there are a significant number of very smart people working on commercializing small, modular molten salt reactors (MSRs) over the next 5 to 10 years. Hopefully, fusion won't be too far behind, as advances in MSRs and material science are accelerating the development and commercialization of power producing/netting fusion reactors, as well:



https://news.mit.edu/2020/superconductor-technology-smaller-sooner-fusion-1013

https://news.mit.edu/2020/physics-fusion-studies-0929
 

Saucycarpdog

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,308
It's called nuclear power. We are just too ignorant as a society to fully grasp its potential. It is literally the only current technology that can save us from ourselves. Thankfully, there are a significant number of very smart people working on commercializing small, modular molten salt reactors (MSRs) over the next 5 to 10 years. Hopefully, fusion won't be too far behind, as advances in MSRs and material science are accelerating the development and commercialization of power producing/netting fusion reactors, as well:



https://news.mit.edu/2020/superconductor-technology-smaller-sooner-fusion-1013

https://news.mit.edu/2020/physics-fusion-studies-0929
It's because of economics and the reputation that nuclear power is not widely accepted. First, nuclear plants cost billions and takes years to build. This is why the private sector won't build them so it's up to the government to do it. Problem is nuclear power has a bad reputation in the publics eyes and no politician wants to risk their careers on trying to sell it. It doesn't matter how rare a nuclear meltdown would be, it's all the public will think about. A bit like why we have so many airplane regulations despite the rarity of plane crashes.

Besides, solar is incredibly cheap rn and wind is only getting cheaper. It's cheaper and safer to just make innovations in those tech fields.
 

samoyed

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
15,191
Isn't one of the major problems with wind and solar that they're not on-demand energy? Or is that not a thing.
Old talking point, I'm not sure what to believe now. Apparently it can be overcome by layering enough generation sources on top of each other.

www.nrdc.org

Debunking Three Myths About “Baseload”

At Secretary Perry’s direction, Department of Energy staff are preparing a study on the long-term viability of baseload power plants. The memo to staff ordering the study ignored the fundamental changes taking place in the electricity industry. In the past, coal...

I'm still pro-nuclear-ish because I like options but trying to discern propaganda from reality is a chore.
 
Oct 27, 2017
7,671
It's because of economics and the reputation that nuclear power is not widely accepted. First, nuclear plants cost billions and takes years to build. This is why the private sector won't build them so it's up to the government to do it. Problem is nuclear power has a bad reputation in the publics eyes and no politician wants to risk their careers on trying to sell it. It doesn't matter how rare a nuclear meltdown would be, it's all the public will think about. A bit like why we have so many airplane regulations despite the rarity of plane crashes.

Besides, solar is incredibly cheap rn and wind is only getting cheaper. It's cheaper and safer to just make innovations in those tech fields.
You are serving as a prime example of ignorance on the topic. There is no physical way for MSRs to "melt down", as they operate fundamentally differently than Light Water Reactors (i.e., They have a negative coefficient of thermal reactivity and therefore fission only happens in a controlled temperature window). Also, MSRs will be small, modular, and mass producable on an assembly line off site in a factory. They will not cost billions of dollars to deploy. Once commercialized, they should wind up costing as much as a coal plant. There is currently enough thorium and uranium fuel/waste that can be used as fuel to last for hundreds of thousands of years at the current rate of global consumption (fusion will essentially be infinite, as it uses tritium derived from sea water). Again, ignorance of the science and these technologies' potential is fueling an irrational fear of what will ultimately save us. Solar and wind currently do not produce enough power (i.e., low power density and conversion efficiency) and would literally take hundreds of years to deploy across massive expanses of land and sea to just meet or existing global power consumption (not taking into account growing population and demand).

I'm afraid if people continue to block nuclear out of their mind as you are doing, humanity will die. This is not a hyperbolic statement. Nuclear is currently the only technology that provides a feasible solution without giving up standard of living and accounts for growing power consumption demand globally going into the future.
 
Last edited:

99nikniht

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,352
Global warming threads barely get any replies here. Goes to show you how much people don't care about it. There's this thing called planting trees, which if strategically done, can reduce CO2 levels to unprecedented levels. But of course there's no profits in it so gives a shit right.

After the US and hopefully the world adapts a cap and trade system, planting trees can be enormously profitable for those that plants trees.
 

Mengy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,376
It's called nuclear power. We are just too ignorant as a society to fully grasp its potential. It is literally the only current technology that can save us from ourselves.

Nuclear takes fuel and creates waste though, solar and wind do not. That's why they'll be more sustainable and affordable in the end.
 
Oct 27, 2017
7,671
Nuclear takes fuel and creates waste though, solar and wind do not. That's why they'll be more sustainable and affordable in the end.
The new type of nuclear fission reactors (i.e., Molten Salt Reactors) expend nearly all of the fuel they utilize, leaving nearly no nuclear waste (i.e., it can utilize upwards of 100% of the fuel rather than 3 to 5 % of the fuel like Light Water Reactors currently do; MSRs can even burn the nuclear waste from LWRs as fuel!). And what tiny bit does remain as waste from MSRs is only radioactive for between 200 and 300 years rather than 10,000 years plus, as is the case with LWRs.

Nuclear fusion, on the other hand, produces literally zero nuclear waste. Fusion will always be the end goal, but MSRs will bridge the gap until they are commercially viable.

Also, PVs (photovoltaics) can produce massive amounts of waste at the end of their lifecycle, which is typically 30 to 35 years per cell array. It's not easy to recycle and there are lots of rare earth elements that could be put to better use. Windmills require massive amounts of energy to manufacture, transport, and install. They are also a challenge to maintain.

Both of those only make sense in certain environments and under certain conditions, until energy density and conversion efficiency improve. These forms of renewables can be a nice compliment to nuclear baseload power generation, as they can help provide peak/surplus power generation.

Note/Fun Fact: nuclear fuel is so energy dense that, even though the current Light Water Reactors have a paltry Fuel Utilization Efficiency of 3 to 5% best, all the nuclear waste from all LWR reactors globally over the past 80 years they've been in operation could fit in the space of a single football field, stacked less than nine feet high.
 
Last edited: