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[Kotaku] Riot Games is now being investigated by the State of California for gender discrimination
- Thread starter MMarston
- Start date
This is not good for Riot and they deserve it.
California Government doesn't fuck around, once they have court orders they come in and take everything they want. Who knows what they might end up uncovering, but nothing will be good for Riot.
This is every California business worst nightmare.
California Government doesn't fuck around, once they have court orders they come in and take everything they want. Who knows what they might end up uncovering, but nothing will be good for Riot.
This is every California business worst nightmare.
I'd share my thoughts on much from this thread but frankly I'm concerned by the lynch mob mentality that's being demonstrated here.
Please share. It's always important to have all voices in play, in any circunstances. (And It would make for a much healthier discussion, I believe)
Echoing fepeinado here. I would also like to hear more comments from current/former Riot staff about their time there and opinions on the ongoing issues facing the company. It's always better to have more information to form opinions with.
Same. It's actually kind of scary/sad how many people just want to burn down a game developer...
That has a history of treating some of it's employees like shit to the point where many walked out.
It's kind of scary how people worry more about games more then people getting sexually harassed.
This is a bad take. Riot is a toxic developer that treats its employees and userbase like shit. I don't care how good their game might be (for me it's not, but I understand why people like it) no company should be allowed to act this way. Your take is like saying "well the Cosby show is funny, I can't believe people don't like him now"
No one wants to "burn down a game developer". That's a hilariously ridiculous take.
Riot has consistently fucked employees over and the management has taken few if any measures to stamp those out. They've shown zero results, despite promising to do so. There was an employee walkout recently and what came about from that? The same tired bullshit that we've come to expect. Frankly, it's about time people were done with their bullshit excuses. Riot should be held accountable for their actions, and the employees that made these completely inappropriate choices should be held accountable as well.
there are MANY game developers I wouldn't attack this hard because they don't have a history of this type of behavior
Riot ain't one of those developers
Sure Flare; and you've certainly also not demonstrated the lynch mob mentality I refer to multiple times already in this thread alone. The automatic response to assume the worst of a given game studio in scenarios like these and eagerness to extend the spicy narratives continues to surprise me.
Assumptions just like these are extremely damaging, baseless and continue to spin a narrative that simply isn't true.
Don't believe everything you read, especially on gamer forums like these. I find statements like these especially ridiculous, and they go to show how eager folks are to believe the narrative they're after.
What's your opinion on the large employee walk out and the rather scummy arbitration process?
And the expose on the sexual harassment that went on, which included higher up Riot leadership, a prominent harasser whose only punishment was losing a couple months pay.
Very interesting. I'll be looking forward to hearing the verdict. Recent information paints a pretty sorry picture over there, but I of course will wait to see what the investigation comes out with. Riot's statement makes this all the more interesting, too. I wonder how long it'll take to hear more.
Agree with everything you said here. It sucks and I really hope folks can get less hyperbolic in these types of conversations here. :/
Watched the video detailing the Mordekaiser re-work the other day, and all the devs shown in that video look like a literal manifestation of the word gamerbro, like they literally looked like out of a movie frathouse, i know i shouldn't judge their looks, but damn if they didn't just have the look that suggests all the allegations were true.
Right, and you are no better than my irl buddy who works there by posting here like this. For the record I'm not insinuating anything about people at Riot but there is obviously a cultural/managerial problem that needs to be addressed. To not acknowledge that is rather gross.
It's because they literally do hire from their own community.
sidebar from the main topic, but can we avoid garbage posts like these? making comment on people's physical appearance in this context is gross, especially when you don't know them or have any idea whether they're involved with all the garbage behaviour reported.
Like it's actually fucking disgusting to think anything of the sort and doesn't help any points you intend to make on the topic. I'm sure you wouldn't appreciate people judging your character based on your appearance.
You're right, you shouldn't judge people based on their looks.
Fuck off with this shit, lol.
Imagine thinking you're some victim of lynch mob mentality while being unwilling to engage with people that have friends, family, or themselves have that have been abused or discriminated in workplaces because you think people will attack you for working at a company. Riot has a problem, and those problems should be resolved from within. It shouldn't have to come to a State investigating the company for gender discrimination.
I'm not about to apologize for assuming the worst of a game company that has had years to improve its work culture, only admitted to having these problems after these issues were divulged by Cecilia's article, said they would improve things and would provide updates and didn't (empty words with no real results over the course of months), had employees walk out who wanted the company to address these issues, and then had an entirely scummy arbitration process. But if you consider all this a "spicy narrative", then yea, I'm not sure I've got anything else to say to you.
Congrats to Cecilia D'anastasio on breaking this story - this is the fruits of good journalism. She actually won a Writers Guild of America award for it.
So I see people with person connections to Riot try to blame all of this on an over-sensitive internet Lynch mob, conveniently ignoring all the reporting done on Riot showing all the issues with the company.
Including how these issues reach into the highest levels of leadership at Riot, and nothing was done to address it. Not even after a mass walk-out.
But no, this is just a lynch mob tho /s
Including how these issues reach into the highest levels of leadership at Riot, and nothing was done to address it. Not even after a mass walk-out.
But no, this is just a lynch mob tho /s
if I were you, I wouldn't bother wasting your time
cmon this is a silly take, lol
If you're a riot employee, I don't think you should be posting in this thread.
Companies have PR people for that. So coming in, with a verified mark explicitly showing you're part of the company and arguing with your target audience/potential customers...I really wouldn't recommend it.
Anywho, I wanted to share this tweet I saw because it seemed relevant:
Companies have PR people for that. So coming in, with a verified mark explicitly showing you're part of the company and arguing with your target audience/potential customers...I really wouldn't recommend it.
Anywho, I wanted to share this tweet I saw because it seemed relevant:
Former Female Riot Employee said:
I agree. Invoking the victim complex card is a waste of time for everyone involved.
It's a double edged sword. On one hand its great to stand alongside the employees that are involved in them, alongside other companies that recently went through this such as Google and Microsoft and advocate for the policy change around them. On the other hand there are, and were presented, other avenues that could have been taken that doesn't bring further media attention and create opportunities for the walkouts intention to be taken out of context or misconstrued to escalate various negative narratives.
It seems far too common that individuals paint a picture of companies like Riot being operated by an evil isolated dictatorship, ensuing to a fight of good vs evil. The reality is that Riot is the individuals from bottom to top, and many of those supporting, advocating and participating in the walkout (and the various efforts across the company to these ends) are those in leadership positions throughout the company. The us vs them mentality is hyperbolic and ill informed.
The expose was heartbreaking and distressing but has been a net positive for Riot as a company, resulting in many vast wide-spread positive change throughout the company with many more still being executed upon and planned going forward. The repeated narrative of there being no change, or that Riot has simply swept these matters under the rug, including from this thread is simply not the case and grossly ill informed.
Regarding the action taken against the allegations, there were internal and unbiased 3rd party external investigations. I don't have access into those, though nor would I speak to them if I did, but I appreciate that 'allegation' doesn't mean 'guilty' and for those that are there's a spectrum of severity to the actions accused and the outcomes that follow. I appreciate eagerness to see heads roll in all cases, and whilst many did, not all need to.
Please don't judge individuals by how they look, let alone on a video or in a thread that is advocating and in support against such things.
You're dismissing the words of two people who work at the company, then assuming to know better than those individuals whilst also misconstruing who 'the people at Riot' are and even conclude with a toxic remark that demonstrate how attached to your narrative you are.
I didn't say this site, I said sites like these. Because some of these baseless and even ridiculous fabrications of actuality tend not to come from credible sources.
I'm engaging, far more than I arguably should given the agendas I'm not going to get past, but try not to assume I also don't have friends or family that share the challenges you outline, or work alongside many that are working hard to systematically resolve them. Including those from junior positions to high leadership ones. Nor you shouldn't assume we aren't trying hard to resolve and improve on these challenges from within already.
You're probably right, but for the time being here I am
Thankfully Riot celebrate engaging with our audience, and I'm not here to argue with anyone but simply trying to discuss the topics and challenges of this thread, with the context that I have available. I also don't want to dismiss the claims against individuals at Riot, past or present, like your linked Tweet.
But wasn't the media attention the exact reason that Riot is even getting its act together or attempting to? I feel its a bit cheap to talk about other avenues when apparently there have been serious issues for years now. It sounds like those other avenues weren't exactly doing what they needed to do by the employees to the point that over 100 were basically left with the radical move to walk out and risk their jobs, friendships and entire careers.
You point out individuals but we're talking far more than a couple people here or there over a short time frame. If anything many of the reports we've heard is that the issue isn't just with the higher ups but the culture in general. I'm not trying to pin you down and get you with a gotcha but it really feels like you're trying to frame the narrative in a way that doesn't really seem all that genuine.
Edit: I also think you're not helping yourself much by saying not to trust random individuals and their stories on some forum which also applies to you as much as anyone else.
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I highly recommend people to check this out. A coworker of mine from Riot actually speaking about whats happening there from the ground, and what you can do to help.
Edit: I work at riot, but I'm not verified yet but just want to state it.
Many of those avenues didn't exist until the first expose, and wide sweeping changes have opened up various channels of communication across the organization where we very frequently see open engagement on tough topics like arbitration. Also I specifically said it was a double sided sword and pointed out some of the pros and cons, and don't dismiss the value the initial media visibility (including the one arbitration) into the topic affords internal conversations before the decision to walkout occurred
I'm just trying to address the topics and accusations raised in this thread, and agree as much it's individuals and the culture in general but my point remains that steps have been taken since the expose illuminated the issue to vastly improve as an organization (and by no means is the end of them). I'm trying to be genuine in my advocacy that the vast majority of employees at Riot are great individuals with good intentions that are working together to try and resolve and improve the challenges we've faced in this area, have made great process and plan to make more. And some of the assumptions and baseless rumors that are thrown around here is tough to read when there's a lot more nuance to the topic than gets exposed and I'm still at Riot because I strongly believe it's at large a fantastic place of work, with good intentions to employees and players alike, from bottom to top employees, and plans/efforts to only get better.
A fair observation but please try to see where I'm coming from that reading "they encourage you to stay and play games with your fellow developers instead of going home to your family", "the expectation that you would play for absurd hours" and "It is probably an anecdote from QA at Riot" from 'random individuals' with only external visibility to the company is tough to swallow as someone who has for years been inside the company, as QA, with a lot hands on first person experience to the polar opposite of such statements.
Thank you posting this. This is far more substantive. What I took away from the interview (which was great) was that there are people within the company actively trying to make the workplace better (not unsurprising), that management is still fairly combative about the whole thing, that while there are employees trying to fight for better equality and working conditions they seem to be a comparatively smaller percentage of the whole, and that it's still quite an uphill battle where progress is slow.
I wish the best of luck to these employees, sounds like they really enjoy working there for the most part. Riot (and just so it's clear, when I mention Riot, I'm referring to management and employees that are part of the problem) needs to step up and really make some headway on these issues a lot faster than they're doing so currently.
An update, the Department of Fair Employment and Housing in California, the body investigating Riot over these allegations, coming straight out and saying that Riot has been stonewalling them over information requests (contrary to Riot's response), and that is why the lawsuit was filed.