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wafflebrain

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,198
This part stood out as well:

Melvin Forrest has been working in the product testing department since the early nineties, and he eventually became the head of the department. Forrest is credited with working on iconic Nintendo titles like Mario Kart: Double Dash!!, Donkey Kong Country, and Metroid Prime. Forrest makes the schedules for Aerotek associates, deciding who returns after a project ends, so maintaining a good work relationship with him was crucial. This was a problem for female testers who had very uncomfortable experiences with Forrest as a manager.

Several sources tell Kotaku that Forrest made inappropriate advances toward female testers. Among them was Allison, who worked under Forrest as a data entry assistant. "It was pretty common knowledge that he would make comments, hit on people, like to [tell] associates, 'Oh she's so beautiful,'" she says. Former contract tester Chris Ollis, who worked at Nintendo until 2014, recalls that "[Forrest] went after all the associate girls" and that associates would even warn each other to stay away from his desk. A former tester said that he would comment on female associates' weight and appearance. However, many felt like they had no choice but to stay on good terms with Forrest. "If you were friendly with him, you are more likely to be brought back sooner or less likely to be laid off," said Allison.

In November 2010, Ollis was invited to a Seattle gala for which Nintendo was a sponsor. He told Kotaku that, at the party, his supervisor Eric Bush leaned in and told him to ask a female contractor what color her panties were. Bush was also a highly prolific employee whose name can be found in the credits of some of Nintendo's most beloved games, such as Golden Sun, multiple Pokémon titles, and Breath of the Wild. One tester corroborated the incident to Kotaku, noting that she heard about the incident through other colleagues before finding out about it from Ollis himself. According to his LinkedIn, Bush is still employed at Nintendo as a product testing assistant manager.

These two should be on the chopping block asap. The fact they're still there is disgusting. My hopes of any action being taken are near zero sadly.
 

Dyle

One Winged Slayer
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
29,903
Yea because that's the obvious issue here😐
Did you not read the article? Much of the reason what described happened and why the people responsible weren't disciplined is because Nintendo arranged this stupid class system among their workers. A system which exists primarily to defray the company's liability for what happens to their workers and to impose byzantine barriers to reporting and addressing human resource problems between the two entities which greatly weakens the power of workers to ensure their workplaces are safe and effective. We've seen this exact problem time and time again and these terrible contracting arrangements are consistently at the heart of the worst labor abuses in tech industries and in many other industries.
 

monsterlife

Banned
Apr 22, 2022
12
in that regard it's similar to the slave labor issue with Chinese suppliers.
Except that this time it feels like the contractor companies are only there to shield Nintendo from liability.

It need to be restated that Nintendo is doing a lot of work thanks to contractor companies pulling heavy workload for them.
and I don't even mean lately with this case here.
It's this type of relationship they have had since forever with HAL, IS or other lesser known partners that I don't even think are credited even.
It IS legally the contractor's company's job to protect them but here they work at a Nintendo workplace so you would think that Nintendo would have a duty to provide a safe work environment.

there is no question whatsoever that the creeps with red badges that are preying on contractors need to fired like years ago and the whole management structure burned to the ground.
I'm sure the US have better laws for contract workers.

The easiest way to clean house is to find a new contract company.

The christmas party is iffy. Nintendo's plus one policy should change. From previous articles about noa's contractors it seems the company does not in any way wants to be associated with the contract workers.
 

Soda

Member
Oct 26, 2017
8,856
Dunedin, New Zealand
I am not discounting the sexual harassment issues here, I just don't have much to add to the conversation that already hasn't been said by others.

But also, holy shit at $16/hr after working there 9 years? That is insane.
 
Jul 7, 2021
3,155
Nintendo games just feel tainted by this news, knowing that people who playtested them were sexually harassed, exploited, treated like objects.

Already started contemplating leaving this hobby behind me a while back, and stuff like this makes it even easier.
 

StereoVSN

Member
Nov 1, 2017
13,620
Eastern US
This whole situation is a travesty frankly. Also the hourly rates are laughable . In normal vanilla IT department usually entree level service desk folks (basically call center) get more.

Also the HR department sounds like it's completely useless over there at NOA. How can this shit be ongoing in gaming so much?

I don't quite get that, seems gaming companies are behind your regular vanilla corporations by like 10-20 years in this sense.
 

Aminga

Member
Oct 27, 2017
911
Did you not read the article? Much of the reason what described happened and why the people responsible weren't disciplined is because Nintendo arranged this stupid class system among their workers. A system which exists primarily to defray the company's liability for what happens to their workers and to impose byzantine barriers to reporting and addressing human resource problems between the two entities which greatly weakens the power of workers to ensure their workplaces are safe and effective. We've seen this exact problem time and time again and these terrible contracting arrangements are consistently at the heart of the worst labor abuses in tech industries and in many other industries.
I read the article, I just feel/meant the sexual assault/harassment by Nintendo employees and managers against ANYONE be it contractor or full time employee is the bigger issue. The existence of contract employees and their place in any industry <an important issue to tackle> is not what I took as the most horrifying from this news.
 

L Thammy

Spacenoid
Member
Oct 25, 2017
49,970
I read the article, I just feel/meant the sexual assault/harassment by Nintendo employees and managers against ANYONE be it contractor or full time employee is the bigger issue. The existence of contract employees and their place in any industry <an important issue to tackle> is not what I took as the most horrifying from this news.
The two aren't really separable. The contract system creates the power dynamic, the power dynamic enables the abuse.

Ultimately, there are going to be bad actors in any group of people. You can't really stop that - it's just the fundamental nature of assembling a bunch of people that you can't know everything there is to know about them. The issue is that companies have rules and cultures, and if they don't combat these things, they enable them, and the scale of the abuse increases.
 

spam musubi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,380
This whole situation is a travesty frankly. Also the hourly rates are laughable . In normal vanilla IT department usually entree level service desk folks (basically call center) get more.

Also the HR department sounds like it's completely useless over there at NOA. How can this shit be ongoing in gaming so much?

I don't quite get that, seems gaming companies are behind your regular vanilla corporations by like 10-20 years in this sense.

Given that gaming companies grossly underpay people because they take advantage of their love of gaming, it also makes that they're shitty in just about every way they treat their employees.
 

Kasumin

Member
Nov 19, 2017
1,929
Nintendo games just feel tainted by this news, knowing that people who playtested them were sexually harassed, exploited, treated like objects.

Already started contemplating leaving this hobby behind me a while back, and stuff like this makes it even easier.
It also makes me wonder about who is behind the localizations of games I play.

This article made me realize there's probably a lot of crossover between dudes who study Japanese and creepy anime/manga/game fans that hate "SJWs" and so on. Ugh...

Also, I'm not surprised that Nintendo offered no response to Kotaku inquiries because that's how they usually are. Fuck them in this situation, though. They don't even have anything to say to so much evidence of their shitty work culture.

It's frustrating when they're silent in game-related stuff. In this far more serious case? It's infuriating.
 
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srylain

Member
Jun 15, 2018
396
User Banned (2 Weeks): Insensitive and Dismissive Commentary in a Thread About Sexual Harassment
I was there for a little over a month in 2011, with Aerotek, and I don't think I ever saw anything that stood out. Mostly just kept to myself and didn't really talk to anybody out of fear of doing something wrong (I was 19), but even during the lunch breaks I don't ever recall overhearing anything out of the ordinary. Just seemed like a standard corporate thing to me. I'm pretty sure we also only had access to company email and that was the only way to contact anyone (so all the other chat servers and stuff is after I was there), but I think most people tried to use it as little as possible in fear of accidentally sending an email to someone like Miyamoto since I think practically everyone showed up in the contacts list.

Even the overtime seemed pretty fine, since it was just an extra 2 hours for a couple days (was paid the proper time and a half as well) and they ordered us food. I did hear one story from years prior where a guy had a heart attack or something in the office because he had to stay overnight and slammed a ton of energy drinks, but that wouldn't exactly be NoA's fault.
 

Watershed

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,810
Nintendo games just feel tainted by this news, knowing that people who playtested them were sexually harassed, exploited, treated like objects.

Already started contemplating leaving this hobby behind me a while back, and stuff like this makes it even easier.
You didn't feel this way until now? These are not exactly new issues in the video game industry.
 

Bowl0l

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,608
If this happens at all branches, Corp should relabel themselves as not safe for family to be more appropriate for their customers
 

Nikus

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
10,362
I was there for a little over a month in 2011, with Aerotek, and I don't think I ever saw anything that stood out. Mostly just kept to myself and didn't really talk to anybody out of fear of doing something wrong (I was 19), but even during the lunch breaks I don't ever recall overhearing anything out of the ordinary. Just seemed like a standard corporate thing to me. I'm pretty sure we also only had access to company email and that was the only way to contact anyone (so all the other chat servers and stuff is after I was there), but I think most people tried to use it as little as possible in fear of accidentally sending an email to someone like Miyamoto since I think practically everyone showed up in the contacts list.

Even the overtime seemed pretty fine, since it was just an extra 2 hours for a couple days (was paid the proper time and a half as well) and they ordered us food. I did hear one story from years prior where a guy had a heart attack or something in the office because he had to stay overnight and slammed a ton of energy drinks, but that wouldn't exactly be NoA's fault.
"According to my anecdotal evidence of spending a month there more than a decade ago, everything seemed fine. Also a guy clearly died because he was overworked but that's not Nintendo's fault."

That story alone of a guy dying because he had to keep himself awake is outrageous
 

srylain

Member
Jun 15, 2018
396
"According to my anecdotal evidence of spending a month there more than a decade ago, everything seemed fine. Also a guy clearly died because he was overworked but that's not Nintendo's fault."

That story alone of a guy dying because he had to keep himself awake is outrageous

All I'm saying is that from my own experience everything seemed fine, thought that was obvious. For all I know about that guy was that he was perfectly fine afterwards, but since I wasn't there when it allegedly happened I have no idea if it did actually happen and we all know how gossip works.
 

Watershed

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,810
All I'm saying is that from my own experience everything seemed fine, thought that was obvious. For all I know about that guy was that he was perfectly fine afterwards, but since I wasn't there when it allegedly happened I have no idea if it did actually happen and we all know how gossip works.
It's more accurate to say your experience there was fine. Other people, especially women, likely were facing discrimination, harassment, and lack of promotion at the same time you were working there and not experiencing those things.
 

L Thammy

Spacenoid
Member
Oct 25, 2017
49,970
"According to my anecdotal evidence of spending a month there more than a decade ago, everything seemed fine. Also a guy clearly died because he was overworked but that's not Nintendo's fault."

That story alone of a guy dying because he had to keep himself awake is outrageous
Not to diminish from the circumstances that might have pushed him to do it or the general work culture that creates the market for energy drinks, but energy drinks work by fucking with your heart rate. There's a reason why the label tells you to limit you to a certain number a day - they're very easy to misuse in a way that causes injury. There's probably a separate conversation to be had about the responsibilities of the companies producing them.
 
Jul 7, 2021
3,155
You didn't feel this way until now? These are not exactly new issues in the video game industry.

I know, it is a systemic issue. However, I haven't bought a single game from the previously-known offending parties for ages upon ages, and was actually happy I didn't give them any of my money. Guess that ended today... Suspicion is one thing, reading actual stories another.
 
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nintendoman58

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,108
I know, it is a systemic issue. However, I haven't bought a single game from the previously-known offending parties for ages upon ages, and was actually happy I didn't give them any of my money. Guess that ended today...

I mean, you can always buy second hand if you're that concerned about where your money goes. If you completely burn every bridge every time a story comes out (and more will come out) you'll only find yourself being driven insane as you add more companies to the pile.

No ethical consumption under capitalism and all that.
 
Jul 7, 2021
3,155
I mean, you can always buy second hand if you're that concerned about where your money goes. If you completely burn every bridge every time a story comes out (and more will come out) you'll only find yourself being driven insane as you add more companies to the pile.

No ethical consumption under capitalism and all that.

Don't want to derail the tread, but It's not just the terrible, humiliating stories like this. My interest in games as such is waning to be honest. Got plenty of other hobbies that aren't entertainment to occupy myself with. 😉 Would agree with your point though.
 
Oct 28, 2017
605
The industry is all boys' clubs all the way down. The sooner people get through their head that this is happening basically more or less anywhere and everywhere these corporate power imbalances exist (i.e. anywhere in capitalism), the better. If you don't think your favorite major game studio is doing this, the sad truth is that we probably just haven't heard about it.

Also wow cringing hard at the Vaporeon thing popping up at a Nintendo-affiliated firm of all places. I'm as furry as the next bitch but, like, how the actual fuck do you be so socially disinhibited as to whip that kind of shit out at fucking work in front of people who didn't consent to hearing about that shit!?
 

Firestorm

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,708
Vancouver, BC
I'm sure the US have better laws for contract workers.

The easiest way to clean house is to find a new contract company.

The christmas party is iffy. Nintendo's plus one policy should change. From previous articles about noa's contractors it seems the company does not in any way wants to be associated with the contract workers.
You want to punish contractors further by making them ineligible to come to company events even as +1s? How is that the solution here?
 

Khanimus

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
40,157
Greater Vancouver
Seems like it.

Not just fuck NOA, fuck Nintendo too.
Yup. Like why is there any reason to assume this shit hasn't affected any other game in their history? At Nintendo of America, Japan, or anywhere else.

We don't live in that world where gross practices haven't permeated every space. Of course they have. What makes these stories so much more insidious is the culture of how the systems in-place cannot be relied upon when people need help, but that they actively contribute to this culture with this red badge shit and punishing people who speak up.

Toss Nintendo in the dumpster with the rest, because they'll be in familiar company with all these other complicit organizations.
 

spman2099

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,891
Wow, that fucking sucks. Way to create a tiered system rife for abuse, Nintendo. Who could have possibly foreseen it being abused?

This whole industry is just sorta trash, eh?
 

Firestorm

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,708
Vancouver, BC
Wow, that fucking sucks. Way to create a tiered system rife for abuse, Nintendo. Who could have possibly foreseen it being abused?

This whole industry is just sorta trash, eh?
As a heads up this is literally every company. And I'm not talking just games. They all use contracting companies to cut costs and the people hired by those companies cannot be considered employees and have different laws that must be abided by to ensure they can't be considered employees.

The way contractors work is literally the biggest thing that's wrong with the game industry but people rarely seem to talk about it on this board.
 

Khanimus

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
40,157
Greater Vancouver
As a heads up this is literally every company. And I'm not talking just games. They all use contracting companies to cut costs and the people hired by those companies cannot be considered employees and have different laws that must be abided by to ensure they can't be considered employees.

The way contractors work is literally the biggest thing that's wrong with the game industry but people rarely seem to talk about it on this board.
This may be every company, but not every company gets to manipulate its contractors by essentially exploiting their childhood fandom, having drilled emotional investment into their heads since they were 5. "Didn't you always wanna be here? Like your childhood dream? Work with everyone who grew up loving all the same stuff, and now you get to be here? You wouldn't wanna ruin that for everyone, would you?" Like a deeply insidious Santa's Workshop.

That's that extra little Nintendo touch. Blizzard had that shit too. "Sure you're not going to be paid enough that you'll have to sleep out of a van, but isn't it worth it? To work at Blizzard?!"
 

Rotimi

Banned
Dec 25, 2017
1,756
Jos , Nigeria
Ok, this along with the story from a couple of months ago doesn't paint a good picture at Nintendo. I hope all the people who critiziced other companies like Activision, Riot, also speak up here.

www.gamedeveloper.com

Nintendo's contract workers are speaking up about poor conditions

Weeks after being hit with an NLRB complaint, Nintendo is facing growing negative accounts from current and former contract employees.
Sad for the people that have to go through this.
Well I don't think many will speak loudly on it. The hypocrisy in the industry is telling, when you make products that the media and people consider good. Well you get passes for shit. You would think a report like this will blow up yesterday. But sadly it doesn't
 

Gavalanche

Prophet of Regret
Member
Oct 21, 2021
17,406
As a heads up this is literally every company. And I'm not talking just games. They all use contracting companies to cut costs and the people hired by those companies cannot be considered employees and have different laws that must be abided by to ensure they can't be considered employees.

The way contractors work is literally the biggest thing that's wrong with the game industry but people rarely seem to talk about it on this board.

The Sony blocking gamepass thread will get more posts than this one, guaranteed.
 

Lost Heaven

Member
Aug 20, 2021
1,148
Feels like at this point, if one wouldn't want to involuntarily reward these practices, one should just quit this hobby altogether. Hope this gets enough traction to cause changes, but seems like Nintendo didn't even bother to respond.
 

Lost Heaven

Member
Aug 20, 2021
1,148
This may be every company, but not every company gets to manipulate its contractors by essentially exploiting their childhood fandom, having drilled emotional investment into their heads since they were 5. "Didn't you always wanna be here? Like your childhood dream? Work with everyone who grew up loving all the same stuff, and now you get to be here? You wouldn't wanna ruin that for everyone, would you?" Like a deeply insidious Santa's Workshop.

That's that extra little Nintendo touch. Blizzard had that shit too. "Sure you're not going to be paid enough that you'll have to sleep out of a van, but isn't it worth it? To work at Blizzard?!"
This. These companies leverage passion to get away with all kinds of shit. Most IT work is done with contractors nowadays and it's trash all around, but only in gaming (and other creative endeavours) people have their passion used against them.
 

Rotimi

Banned
Dec 25, 2017
1,756
Jos , Nigeria
Don't want to derail the tread, but It's not just the terrible, humiliating stories like this. My interest in games as such is waning to be honest. Got plenty of other hobbies that aren't entertainment to occupy myself with. 😉 Would agree with your point though.
Not to stress too much but down to the clothe you wear, you have no idea of the discrimination or environmental destruction that may have gone into it
 

Humanity

Member
Aug 31, 2019
10,957
Time to restart NOA from the ground up.


You'll find this in a lot of companies. Contractors are treated like shit and there are bright technicolor badges to tell you exactly who that is.
While I haven't seen the badges thing in the places I've worked, otherwise yah pretty much how contractors get treated in most companies. Where I work it's always awkward when we discuss the lavish Christmas party that takes place in some high class hotel knowing that a bunch of contractors attending the meeting where this is being discussed are not permitted to attend.