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[Kotaku] More People Are Playing Left 4 Dead 2 Than Back 4 Blood on Steam

DeadlyVenom

DeadlyVenom

Member
Apr 3, 2018
2,821
The sale doesn't really have anything to do with the current numbers of L4D2, as it is pretty consistently at that number. Lots of old games run well on new low end PCs and are damn cheap but no one is playing them. I think comparing the consistent levels of players for a 12 year old game and those of the new 'sequel' is certainly something worth talking about.
 
Addleburg

Addleburg

The Fallen
Nov 16, 2017
5,077
I guess I'm not understanding a lot of the responses to the article itself. They acknowledge that the numbers "...in no way accounts for consoles, where only Back 4 Blood is free for tens of millions of Xbox Game Pass subscribers." and acknowledge the role that the recent sale may have played. I also don't think it's unfair to say that B4B lives in Left 4 Dead's shadow. I mean, a lot of the hype from the game comes from people who have a love for L4D and were hoping that this would be more of that. This game may very well go on to surpass L4D's legacy some day, but for now it's what it'll often get compared to for better or for worse.

I see the article more as remarkable because of how much staying power L4D still has on PC due to a healthy modding community and community-centric play, and not as "No one is playing B4B anywhere."

DeadlyVenom said:
The sale doesn't really have anything to do with the current numbers of L4D2, as it is pretty consistently at that number. Lots of old games run well on new low end PCs and are damn cheap but no one is playing them. I think comparing the consistent levels of players for a 12 year old game and those of the new 'sequel' is certainly something worth talking about.
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Exactly. L4D is cheap, but it's also old. Its staying power has been due to a lot of people loving and supporting that game for years, not due to it being inexpensive.
 
Dad_and_Videogames

Dad_and_Videogames

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,997
I love B4B but it's hard to compete with the content L4D2 has on offer. Every level from 1 and 2, and several free campaigns, all owned by the entire player base.

B4B needs more content, and quick, if they want to build on the good momentum they've built.
 
Ploid 6.0

Ploid 6.0

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,440
OnionPowder said:
Well I mean I own a lot of old games but I certainly ain't playing them.

Left 4 Dead 2's continued success and large playerbase is probably best suited for another discussion, but it is not normal. Left 4 Dead 2 is just a beast, unrelated to any other games that are coming out.
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A scary game, after a big sale, on Halloween month, after maybe not being able to play the new one (cash, hardware requirements), yeah maybe not you, but apparently a ton of people were interested in jumping in.

When a popular game is getting a lot of attention, a game that I can't play (console exclusive, multiplayer team focused which I tend to avoid, etc.) I sometimes end up looking for similar games because of the attention. Call it a type of genra advertising. I remember when Rust was popular on twitch, I want nothing to do with public Rust, so I became interested in survival games like "The Long Dark." I used to be interested in Pokemon, then never bought a handheld after the Gameboy Brick, suddenly a Pokemon like game showed up on PC and I grabbed it right away.

I have no nostalgia for games like HL2 or L4D but every now and then something sparks my interest in returning to games like Final Fantasy XII or XI (XI big time, especially with custom servers).
 
Aprikurt

Aprikurt

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 29, 2017
18,806
Back 4 Blood is pretty good.

Left 4 Dead 2 is fucking immense, 12 years later. I adore that game.

Please Turtle Rock make B4B2. Please Valve, put down the VR for a hot second and make L4D3. Let them fight. Then I get two great games.
 
Fabtacular

Fabtacular

Member
Jul 11, 2019
4,244
Pretty shameful article by Kotaku.

"Hey, there's a lot of people playing L4D on Steam right now and/because the game is on sale for $2" is a great little story.

"B4B's current player base is less than the 10-year-old game L4D (which is embarrassing for B4B) (but not really, because it's only because it's being virtually given away and the numbers we're using don't count Game Pass)" is click-bait trash.
 
wollywinka

wollywinka

Member
Feb 15, 2018
3,108
L4D is not available on console for some reason, at least not digitally on Xbox. Sadly, my disc was lost in a move.

To be honest, I am disappointed with B4B. I played L4D1 & 2 to death. I don't find B4B much fun. Maybe it's the card system, the special enemies, the lack of true versus. Not quite sure.
 
Addleburg

Addleburg

The Fallen
Nov 16, 2017
5,077
wollywinka said:
L4D is not available on console for some reason, at least not digitally on Xbox. Sadly, my disc was lost in a move.
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Is it not? Damn. I currently have it installed on my Series X (I think it was the first game I re-downloaded when I got it), so I just assumed it was still being sold.

It's not perfect - its capped framerate keeps it at 30 and I wish the ecosystem allowed for the mod support you see on PC - but I still play it. Not as incessantly as I did back when it came out, but the fact that I can keep coming back to it and play a map or two is really telling about how well that game was crafted. I've tried to go back to games I played obsessively a couple years prior and end up uninstalling them after an hour because the magic is gone. Not the case for L4D.
 
BradC00

BradC00

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
2,166
I'm a fan of both games. The only thing I'm not a huge fan of in b4b is the card system. The game is too easy on the recruit but too hard on veteran when you don't have cards. Like it's hard to get people into the game when you are wiping constantly with no rewards but unrewarding when you stomp everything on recruit. On the flip side it makes the game "deeper" I guess because of all the different builds and character combos u can do.
 
Jon God

Jon God

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,305
No horse in this race, but I bet more people are play Back 4 Blood on console, than Left 4 Dead 2…
 
Addleburg

Addleburg

The Fallen
Nov 16, 2017
5,077
BradC00 said:
I'm a fan of both games. The only thing I'm not a huge fan of in b4b is the card system. The game is too easy on the recruit but too hard on veteran when you don't have cards. Like it's hard to get people into the game when you are wiping constantly with no rewards but unrewarding when you stomp everything on recruit. On the flip side it makes the game "deeper" I guess because of all the different builds and character combos u can do.
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I enjoy B4B, especially when playing with friends. I hated the beta, but have tweaked/gotten used to the aiming, and I find it largely satisfying to play. That being said, I'm still also pretty meh on the card system. And I think it's idiotic to limit the number of continues for reasons. Just let people try as many times as they want to ffs.
 
CommodoreKong

CommodoreKong

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,756
DeadlyVenom said:
The sale doesn't really have anything to do with the current numbers of L4D2, as it is pretty consistently at that number. Lots of old games run well on new low end PCs and are damn cheap but no one is playing them. I think comparing the consistent levels of players for a 12 year old game and those of the new 'sequel' is certainly something worth talking about.
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Yeah if you look at the player numbers fir L4D2 the biggest boost it got was when Valve shipped the community made Last Stand update for the game last year. Numbers post Last Stand continue to be higher than they were before the update.

Just shows what free content, even for a very old game, can do for the player base.
 
Squirrel09

Squirrel09

Member
Nov 4, 2017
1,581
Drop back for blood to $2, remove it from gamepass, have the only viable platform for it be steam, and get back to me.

I'm sure ALOT of PC players are playing through GamePass. and on top of that, I'm sure PC only accounts for 20-30% of players.

That being said, left 4 dead 2 is a sick game and ya'll should go spend $2 to play it.
 

JDSN

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
5,129
By the same guy that wanted Samus to smile a bit, let me know when he starts playing a victim on twitter.
 
Dad_and_Videogames

Dad_and_Videogames

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,997
wollywinka said:
L4D is not available on console for some reason, at least not digitally on Xbox. Sadly, my disc was lost in a move.

To be honest, I am disappointed with B4B. I played L4D1 & 2 to death. I don't find B4B much fun. Maybe it's the card system, the special enemies, the lack of true versus. Not quite sure.
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About 6 months ago I discovered it wasn't EASILY available on Xbox digitally. There's a weird, old version of their website you can buy it from. Lemme try to find it. I will update this post.

https://marketplace.xbox.com/en-US/Product/Left-4-Dead-2/66acd000-77fe-1000-9115-d802454108d4 for US peeps.

Technically you're buying the 360 version, which is backwards compatible and enhanced for One X.
 
element

element

Member
Oct 27, 2017
920
80% of people on Steam likely have L4D2 at this point. Between $2 sales and Valve Catalog Sales, that means 50 million maybe more have L4D2.

Hard for any game to complete against that, not to mention it being a new $60 game.
 
Sweet James Jones

Sweet James Jones

Member
Nov 1, 2017
942
I'd be curious to see Kotaku's viewership over the last few years. They seem very desperate, at best. It's hard to take them seriously anymore.
 
capnjazz

capnjazz

Banned
Nov 11, 2017
991
Byrgenwerth
eonden said:
I wouldnt say its due to the current sale, its not like L4D2 hasnt had like 15-20k average players for a year now...

Left 4 Dead 2 - Steam Charts

An ongoing analysis of Steam's player numbers, seeing what's been played the most.
steamcharts.com steamcharts.com
unknown.png


But yeah, numbers will be off because of Gamepass, but its not like Gamepass provides numbers lol.
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Nice, so this is just the normal amount of players Left 4 Dead 2 normally has and the sale didn't affect anything? Personally, I love Left 4 Dead 2 and since I don't want to use GamePass or pay $60 for a game I think looks worse than Left 4 Dead, this is pretty neat.
 
Nothing Loud

Nothing Loud

Literally Cinderella
Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,020
games journalism everybody.

good fucking god they need to teach quantitative sciences better in more journalism programs. This is comparing apples and oranges and making a headline "APPLES ENJOY MORE FANS THAN ORANGES"…oh yeah and apples were 30x cheaper this weekend and we're not counting the people who subscribe to get oranges for free.
 
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ShinUltramanJ

ShinUltramanJ

Member
Oct 27, 2017
12,950
Impressive that a twelve year old game has more concurrent players then the latest spiritual successor.
That's some serious staying power. Left 4 Dead will still be played long after Back 4 Blood fades away.
 
point decay

point decay

Member
Oct 27, 2017
271
ended up playing a Bot match on Sat night as there were no games to join, and this was on GP (it was after 10pm though)
 
Charpunk

Charpunk

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,681
Honestly, Kotaku should just be a banned source here now with all the BS they have been publishing lately.
 
CloseTalker

CloseTalker

Member
Oct 25, 2017
31,119
Charpunk said:
Honestly, Kotaku should just be a banned source here now with all the BS they have been publishing lately.
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We don't need to get in the market of banning outlets because the opinions are dumb. We definitely don't need to make a thread of every one of their dumb articles just to show off how dumb it is though
 
t67443

t67443

Member
Oct 30, 2017
1,866
I stopped going to Kotaku years ago when I was tired of their clickbait and I got more filtered news thru forums like here. I really didn't want to see a half dozen links posted with 3 sentences being snarky about Sailor Moon underwear.

Before today the last time I saw them mentioned was when they complained about a Call of Duty dev working hard on making sure the guns sounded right, and the one where they complained about Far Cry previews not being culturally correct or something. Unfortunately though it seems that they're still making enough money to stay afloat with what they're doing.

Not a great sign for Turtle Rock though. I thought Evolve was pretty fun and I was disappointed 2K and them shut down the servers. Makes me reticent to try and thing they make this point forward.
 
HiLife

HiLife

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
39,979
It's the better game.

wollywinka said:
L4D is not available on console for some reason, at least not digitally on Xbox. Sadly, my disc was lost in a move.

To be honest, I am disappointed with B4B. I played L4D1 & 2 to death. I don't find B4B much fun. Maybe it's the card system, the special enemies, the lack of true versus. Not quite sure.
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You can buy it through the desktop Xbox marketplace.
 
Mg.

Mg.

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,992
EntelechyFuff said:
There's a lot of defensive responses in the thread when the title could be interpreted many ways.

Most are reading it as "B4B sucks" or "GamePass sucks", when it could--with the exact same amount of effort--be read as "GamePass is eating Steam's lunch". Which might be the actual case for this game.
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The article ends with this though
During my brief time with Back 4 Blood, I often found myself wondering why I wasn't just playing Left 4 Dead 2 instead. I guess I wasn't alone.
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I agree number-wise it is a sign game pass is eating Steam's lunch, but doubt that's the message the author was trying to convey with their article.

Also for anyone who hasn't yet, 20+ player servers on L4D2 are absolutely recommended to try at least once. That shit is so chaotic and hilarious. It's like a whole new experience. It also shows how mods can add longetivity to games!
 
OnionPowder

OnionPowder

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
9,323
Orlando, FL
Ploid 6.0 said:
A scary game, after a big sale, on Halloween month, after maybe not being able to play the new one (cash, hardware requirements), yeah maybe not you, but apparently a ton of people were interested in jumping in.

When a popular game is getting a lot of attention, a game that I can't play (console exclusive, multiplayer team focused which I tend to avoid, etc.) I sometimes end up looking for similar games because of the attention. Call it a type of genra advertising. I remember when Rust was popular on twitch, I want nothing to do with public Rust, so I became interested in survival games like "The Long Dark." I used to be interested in Pokemon, then never bought a handheld after the Gameboy Brick, suddenly a Pokemon like game showed up on PC and I grabbed it right away.

I have no nostalgia for games like HL2 or L4D but every now and then something sparks my interest in returning to games like Final Fantasy XII or XI (XI big time, especially with custom servers).
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Okay, but the October player numbers didn't even match August or May's numbers soooooo

from earlier in the thread, this is just normal for L4D2

unknown.png
 
Green Mario

Green Mario

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,325
I've tried hard to get into Back 4 Blood but it's just not as fun to me. That said, I'm also totally over the Left 4 Dead games lol.
 
wollywinka

wollywinka

Member
Feb 15, 2018
3,108
Dad_and_Videogames said:
About 6 months ago I discovered it wasn't EASILY available on Xbox digitally. There's a weird, old version of their website you can buy it from. Lemme try to find it. I will update this post.

https://marketplace.xbox.com/en-US/Product/Left-4-Dead-2/66acd000-77fe-1000-9115-d802454108d4 for US peeps.

Technically you're buying the 360 version, which is backwards compatible and enhanced for One X.
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That's really helpful. Thank you! I thought it was unavailable for some strange reason. I'm in the UK but I found it in the store. Do you know if people still play on Xbox?
HiLife said:
You can buy it through the desktop Xbox marketplace.
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Found it. Thanks!
 
Dad_and_Videogames

Dad_and_Videogames

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,997
wollywinka said:
That's really helpful. Thank you! I thought it was unavailable for some strange reason. I'm in the UK but I found it in the store. Do you know if people still play on Xbox?

Found it. Thanks!
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I'm sure people still play. Honestly, I've played it hundreds of hours either offline or split screen with my kids. It's a fun game to just listen to podcasts to.
 
Lord Fanny

Lord Fanny

Member
Apr 25, 2020
26,023
eonden said:
I wouldnt say its due to the current sale, its not like L4D2 hasnt had like 15-20k average players for a year now...

Left 4 Dead 2 - Steam Charts

An ongoing analysis of Steam's player numbers, seeing what's been played the most.
steamcharts.com steamcharts.com
unknown.png


But yeah, numbers will be off because of Gamepass, but its not like Gamepass provides numbers lol.
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Linus815 said:
they are not meaningless. But people are too hyperfocused on concurrent players, instead of looking at the history chart, which shows that B4B peaked over 60k for a few days but the past few days it can't even crack 30k.

And L4D has actually not gained much at all from the sales, it's still got higher peaks for august.

Kotaku's article doesn't provide good research, and B4B likely has more players playing than L4D if you were to factor in the gamepass numbers, but there's no reason to think that the windows store version of the game has better player retention than the steam version - thus, the game is bleeding players quite quickly, which is what a lot of people figured would happen especially when they announced the lack of a versus campaign style mode.
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I love how these two posts came but people are still 'it's the $2 sale!' Lol, the sale had nothing to do with this. It's fair to talk about the potential Game Pass impact, though.
 
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