Lost Ark's Depiction Of Female Characters Feels A Decade Out Of Date
The free-to-play action MMORPG forces women to wear heels and has gender-locked classes
kotaku.com
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Kotaku: Lost Ark's Depiction Of Female Characters Feels A Decade Out Of Date
- Thread starter Saucycarpdog
- Start date
kotaku.com
Yeah, one of the bigger issues I typically have with Korean games. Their level of needless sexualization is enough to make Japanese and Western game developers blush.
I am by no means a prude, and I love me some horny energy, but dial it down...
I am by no means a prude, and I love me some horny energy, but dial it down...
Korean MMOs are rotten with this stuff. It's less that that haven't been paying attention to the discourse around women's representation in games and more that they just don't care.
User Banned (1 Month): Excusing sexism, history of severe infractions
The walk/run animation is garbage, the rest is fine.
User Banned (2 Weeks): Racist Generalization
That's very Korean of them.
Hell, Bayonetta walks more properly than that.
Hell, Bayonetta walks more properly than that.
User Banned (Permanent): Excusing sexism, history of severe infractions
While this is ridiculous and sexist and tbh I wish Amazon would've changed a lot of it (like how they changed some of the more skimpy outfits), this article does smell a little like "americans pretending that everyone is an american".
"Now in 2022, it's not only bad, it seems as if the folks making this game just ignored the last decade or so of discussions and debates surrounding representation of women and non-masculine characters in games."
Like yeah, no shit that Koreans probably aren't keeping up on the social issues in America. Clearly. Otherwise this stuff would, sadly, not be so prevalent in Korean games. I mean just look at Black Desert for another ridiculous example. I'd love to be proven wrong but I think this sort of conversation has not quite reached Korea yet.
"Now in 2022, it's not only bad, it seems as if the folks making this game just ignored the last decade or so of discussions and debates surrounding representation of women and non-masculine characters in games."
Like yeah, no shit that Koreans probably aren't keeping up on the social issues in America. Clearly. Otherwise this stuff would, sadly, not be so prevalent in Korean games. I mean just look at Black Desert for another ridiculous example. I'd love to be proven wrong but I think this sort of conversation has not quite reached Korea yet.
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Eeesh. It's indeed bad, when I played the beta I never noticed those animation, only played Bard and Paladin
I personally wouldn't say fine, but yeah, infinitely better than some other MMOs.
Feminism is big in Korea, it's just that men think it's bullshit (and therefore should be called out)
And why assume that Americans are the only people capable of having this conversation? In LATAM we know what sexism is, if people ignore that's on them alone
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I see what you are trying to do here, but you managed to actually do the exact opposite.
You should look up some of the social issues for South Korea. Some of this conversation is definitely being had there. It is not like America is the only place social progress and discussion can be had and we must wait for it to spread those ideas to other places.
The devs just don't care. Especially in a heavily male hobbyist space. That is true in most industries around the world.
Why oh why can't we just accept the cultural norms of downgrading women to weird sexualized yet infantalized eye-candy? Must be an American thing.
Gender-locked classes and sexist armour is "fine"?
Good job on making excuses for misogyny by blaming it on the fact that they are... Korean?
What the hell is wrong with you, none of that was an "excuse". I literally said that I'd personally want it changed because it's super sexist.
I'm just taking issue with the phrasing of the Kotaku article.
"Like yeah, no shit that Koreans probably aren't keeping up on the social issues in America."
"I think this sort of conversation simply has not quite reached Korea yet"
This is kinda making excuses IMO. It's also not really true and erases Korean feminism.
But sure, something is wrong with me 🙄
I quit this game super fast when they gender locked classes... Like how????
Even final fantasy XI which is 20 years old never did this.
As for the armour thing, I hate that with a passion in games. Why can't I be a female warrior or tank and not have what is literally bikini bottoms or a thong for "armour". So many other MMOs do that right and some of them even KMMOs so it's not entirely a Korean thing.
Even final fantasy XI which is 20 years old never did this.
As for the armour thing, I hate that with a passion in games. Why can't I be a female warrior or tank and not have what is literally bikini bottoms or a thong for "armour". So many other MMOs do that right and some of them even KMMOs so it's not entirely a Korean thing.
Characters wearing heels doesn't usually bother me in other games but it's especially jarring in this one.
My martial artist character doing all these super quick punches and dashes all while wearing the highest heels possible just takes me out of it.
The locked clases is also a bummer. Really wanted to play a female knight kind of character but all of those are male only.
My martial artist character doing all these super quick punches and dashes all while wearing the highest heels possible just takes me out of it.
The locked clases is also a bummer. Really wanted to play a female knight kind of character but all of those are male only.
I'm so tired, literally everything I say on this forum gets twisted and what-not just because I'm horrible at expressing myself.
I was -not- trying to -excuse- this behaviour. Not what I intended to do, not what I meant. And I'm not "erasing" anything because I literally said that I'd love to be proven wrong. Educate me then, instead of just being rude to me for no reason.
Saddens me that Korean MMO's are still doing this shit. Bounced right off of Tera because of gender locking classes. I don't want to play someone else in a MMO I want to play me. The costumes are still ridiculous I see.
I just do not get the point of gender-locked classes period - Even the ones that are like "oh, this isn't actually gender-locked, it's just locked to one specific character model/sprite" like DFO, Elsword, etc.
usually I just go "w/e, same old" when I see that female characters are more or less stuck with sexy armor and/or stuck being the same body shape (+ maybe you can change the "bust"), but the animations... wtf
usually I just go "w/e, same old" when I see that female characters are more or less stuck with sexy armor and/or stuck being the same body shape (+ maybe you can change the "bust"), but the animations... wtf
Over sexualized and gender locked classes are garbage. It's a shame because the rest of the game is fun.
Gender locked classes will always be sexist and transphobic bullshit. Why can't my Paladin be a woman? Why can't my Sorceress be a Sorcerer? Why do we have to have ability differences between male and female (Deadeye and Gunslinger respectively) versions of a class?
I'm enjoying the game a lot, but this is almost a dealbreaker for me.
The game has some pretty bad depictions of women in it's story too - so far, as of level 30-35, most of the active participants in the story have been men, and any women have been supporting roles or side characters at best. There are two female villains who recently appeared, but one of them is the embodiment of the "Evil Skimpy Sexy Devil" trope.
I'm enjoying the game a lot, but this is almost a dealbreaker for me.
The game has some pretty bad depictions of women in it's story too - so far, as of level 30-35, most of the active participants in the story have been men, and any women have been supporting roles or side characters at best. There are two female villains who recently appeared, but one of them is the embodiment of the "Evil Skimpy Sexy Devil" trope.
The lack of subtlety in every aspects is exhausting and a bit put off, but otherwise a fun game. Same moment when I saw my assassin walk away from the priest in the prologue, I went omg her spine.
I can't believe that companies still think gender locking classes is a good idea. I've never met or seen a single person that likes that shit and that includes the chuds.
It's better than most Korean mmo games for sure, believe me, not an excuse but some people loves those kind of armor too, male and female included.
I wish for better armor or at least a choice for people that don't like them, we'll see how Amazon will react for future content.
"A decade out of date" is generous. Maybe two decades. Dragon's Crown got roasted for its misogyny in 2013. Tropes v. Women in Video Games dates back to 2013. I think that shit would have gotten ridiculed even back in 2012 lol
So, I guess we're even.
www.theglobeandmail.com
kotaku.com
Hell, Lost Ark itself got some attention a few months ago:
opoyi.com
So, it is wrong to say that "they haven't had this conversation yet". There has been conversations, or attempts. Dudes just shut women down. Like they always do...
All of this was just a google search away btw
OK. Sorry you're so tired. I'm tired of all these incredibly exhausting topics about gender and feminism myself and having to constantly "educate" dudes about basic feminism too. Been doing it for like... a decade now?
So, I guess we're even.
Feminism exists in Korea. It just receives very intense backlash whenever it gets the tiniest amount of spotlight. E.g.
Opinion: A vicious anti-feminist backlash stuns South Korea
Amid mounting frustration over jobless woes and growing wealth inequality, feminists have become an easy scapegoat for men to vent their anger on
www.theglobeandmail.com
In South Korea, Gamers Stage An Inquisition Against Feminists
On March 26, a top game development studio in Korea released an unusual statement about one of its employees: “The woman was mistaken in retweeting a tweet with the word ‘hannam,’” derogatory Korean slang for “disgusting men.” It continued, “In the aftermath of this incident, I promise that we...
kotaku.com
Hell, Lost Ark itself got some attention a few months ago:
Latest and Breaking News - Opoyi
opoyi.com
So, it is wrong to say that "they haven't had this conversation yet". There has been conversations, or attempts. Dudes just shut women down. Like they always do...
All of this was just a google search away btw
A) there's a kind of contingent of development that actively wants to push against the kind of criticism that points out shit representation like this. It's not like no one on that team hasn't heard this shit, but more like they think they can sell to the people angrily opposed to it
B) Look at the post going around about someone angry that Aloy has fucking peachfuzz on her skin.
It's clear there's people that actually have zero idea what a human woman actually looks like. Even if it's a stylized anime-leaning kind of thing, women can obviously only be presented like ________. Rocksteady's awful mocap work when animating Catwoman in the video above - this shit is done by dudes who have no idea how to present a female character as confident, sassy or comfortable in any way beyond "Umm.... she's constantly stretching? And... always swaying...?"
I fired up Lost Ark last night and cringed so hard during that character creator. Then, once I made my character I cringed again at the walk animation.
Holy shit its bad. I think i'd be embarrassed if my wife walked in on me playing this.
I also played it for a few hours and it bored me to tears. I don't think ill be returning.
Holy shit its bad. I think i'd be embarrassed if my wife walked in on me playing this.
I also played it for a few hours and it bored me to tears. I don't think ill be returning.