Kotaku: 'It Wasn't Meant To Be This Lightning Rod': Valve Developer Looks Back At Company's Epic Store Exclusivity Comments

[TheEchosOfTheCyborg]

Does everything Nathan Grayson writes consist of these weird unsubstantiated assertions, or is just the things that get posted on Resetera?

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I've been pondering whether to reply to this comment because I don't want to see the guy harrassed, but I also do have a lot of issues with his writing. I can't speak about his Valve or Epic stuff, but some of his other articles I've read do have that unsubstantial assertions like that and for me personally, he's wrote some very questionable things in the past that make it hard for me to believe stuff he says at other times.

 

[Sailent]

I'll just leave this paragraph from the article here

You can't make it any more clear.

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Weak backbone.

I love how alt right people say "people care about social stuff too much", but when it comes to games, they band up like a fucking army.

 

[eonden]

Anytime he crusades against bad guy Valve is just amazing. Problem is Tim knows that the Trump way of speaking actually can work, as you may have noticed with how he says "Steam tax" when discussing developer revenue split. Having people associate the dirty word tax with Steam definitely helps to perpetrate this idea that they are bad for charging developers. All a game of words when it comes to Tim Sweeney.

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Yup, I have already said that several times that whenever he talks about store cuts, he mentions only "Steam tax" (as well as previously saying Steam was like the IRS) while mentioning his cut as "store cut". It is really annoying and just flimsy bs that is never called out. Really grind my gears with that libertarian BS.

Still, that he wants to shift the blame for that when the main concept of the keys is allowing you to generate them freely as long as you sell the game on the store, is stupid. His main take is that because you can generate Beta keys before official launch (which the concept is that they would allow developers to test the game, and to give early access to backers, as long as you intend to sell on the store), but they dont allow it for games that have EXPRESSIVELY said they wont launch in the store for a prolonged period of time (until they are ready to launch on the store). Disingenuous at best, and malicious twisted Valve words at worst.

 

[Javier23]

Nathan Grayson is a great writer. Those of us who have been reading RPS for years know him well. Essays like the one I'm linking here from said site back in 2013, like them or not, have tried to push games journalism forward more so than most other folks in the business: https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2013/01/09/gaming-made-me-violence/

But of course in the end when it comes to him it all boils down to ethics in games journalism by people with an agenda. Well, at least he's clearly not afraid of painting himself under less than the best light.

 

[m_dorian]

Weak backbone.

I love how alt right people say "people care about social stuff too much", but when it comes to games, they band up like a fucking army.

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Questioning a journalist is not like calling the "boys" for a raid.

Every poster in this thread has shown a decree of civility calling Grayson out of what he does, there's no such banding here.

 

[eonden]

Nathan Grayson is a great writer. Those of us who have been reading RPS for years know him well. Essays like the one I'm linking here from said site back in 2013, like them or not, have tried to push games journalism forward more so than most other folks in the business: https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2013/01/09/gaming-made-me-violence/

But of course in the end when it comes to him it all boils down to ethics in games journalism by people with an agenda. Well, at least he's clearly not afraid of painting himself under less than the best light.

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Is he a good writer? Yes. Should he be in charge of Steam reporting on Kotaku? No.

Does not matter if he is a great writer if his bias against the product he is in charge of reporting permeates his entire reporting. Most of his reporting related to Steam is bad and he should just step out of that type of reporting.
There is a difference between being negative about Steam, and making any small thing Steam does into a "Steam are to blame for all the bad shit in PC gaming". (Edit: as an example in this article, complaining that the review bomb mechanism is too slow because it takes some time to launch and then putting the Ion Fury example, making it seem like Steam's fault that the devs are dickheads).

But sure, go calling people gamergaters ("ethics in games journalism") because they are just annoyed by another Grayson Valve article.

 

[Crayon]

Access? Attention?
Actually, PR companies just ride editor's asses 24/7 for game coverage, then disappear once they get what they want.

Given the choice, I'd rather deal with Valve.

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Alrighty then pvj will have none of this! Okay maybe there goes that theory but i might have a question bout it later.

 

[.exe]

Nathan Grayson is a great writer. Those of us who have been reading RPS for years know him well. Essays like the one I'm linking here from said site back in 2013, like them or not, have tried to push games journalism forward more so than most other folks in the business: https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2013/01/09/gaming-made-me-violence/

But of course in the end when it comes to him it all boils down to ethics in games journalism by people with an agenda. Well, at least he's clearly not afraid of painting himself under less than the best light.

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It's rotten that he probably still has a target on his back because of gamergate. Yet, neither or those things have to factor into current criticism of poor output.

 

[Tart Toter 9K]

But then I started fantasizing about what would happen if one of them attacked me. Details gushed out of my brain as though from some enraged thought-volcano.


First, I'd knock the guy unconscious. Knee/knee. Up against a wall, face/mid-section, one/two. Crack, crack, crack, crack. Knees and clinches offer control. Basic self-defense. Doing what's necessary. But that's not where my mind stopped.


Eventually, he'd wake up. It probably wouldn't take long. Maybe I'd break an arm while he was out. Or stomp a hand into a tangled mess. Perhaps something more drastic. My next thought was teeth. One by one. Crack, crack, crack, crack. Because maybe this hypothetical assailant had hurt other people before. Badly. Maybe he deserved to suffer.

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Big oof 🤣

 

[morningbus]

Nathan Grayson is a great writer. Those of us who have been reading RPS for years know him well. Essays like the one I'm linking here from said site back in 2013, like them or not, have tried to push games journalism forward more so than most other folks in the business: https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2013/01/09/gaming-made-me-violence/

But of course in the end when it comes to him it all boils down to ethics in games journalism by people with an agenda. Well, at least he's clearly not afraid of painting himself under less than the best light.

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Geraldo Rivera was once a serious journalist, too.

No one is saying this guy can't contain multitudes. Just that reporting on Steam shouldn't be one of them.

 

[Javier23]

Neither or those things have to factor into current criticism of poor output. It's not a shield.

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Agreed, in any case. Should just have quoted the user asking if everything he writes is the "weird unsubstantiated assertions" that get quoted here.

 

[Crayon]

Nathan Grayson is a great writer. Those of us who have been reading RPS for years know him well. Essays like the one I'm linking here from said site back in 2013, like them or not, have tried to push games journalism forward more so than most other folks in the business: https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2013/01/09/gaming-made-me-violence/

But of course in the end when it comes to him it all boils down to ethics in games journalism by people with an agenda. Well, at least he's clearly not afraid of painting himself under less than the best light.

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I mean, that's a nice article and everything but the string of comments in here about how lame and obvious this is getting are perfectly understandable given the pattern. You want to come in with this gamergate shade like it's at all necessary to explain the sentiment here. Pff.

 

[Tart Toter 9K]

Yeah the more i read of what he wrote in 2013 the more i see how he could take valves comment as something more than it was. He clearly has some sort of temper issues and i do hope he's gotten milder over the years.

 

[Giever]

I like how Valve has to apologize for saying it was unfair for their customers to have the game swiped to a different store at the last minute while Tim Sweeney is on Twitter giving Valve disingenuous offers (We'll stop all of our exclusivity if you guys just adopt this 12% margin you totally can't afford to do because of all of the things you provide and work on!) and calling Valve's standard 30% cut a 'Valve Tax' lol

 

[Pryme]

I'll just leave this paragraph from the article here



You can't make it any more clear.

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It still baffles me that there were actual
People here on this site stridently arguing in favor of review bombing.

 

[eonden]

It still baffles me that there were actual
People here on this site stridently arguing in favor of review bombing.

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Review bombing has its positive factors, but sure, lets have this discussion again.

 

[Pyro]

I like how everyone's saying NG has an agenda when it's someone from Valve themselves saying "Yeah we might have messed up a bit."

 

[Igniz12]

I've been pondering whether to reply to this comment because I don't want to see the guy harrassed, but I also do have a lot of issues with his writing. I can't speak about his Valve or Epic stuff, but some of his other articles I've read do have that unsubstantial assertions like that and for me personally, he's wrote some very questionable things in the past that make it hard for me to believe stuff he says at other times.

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Still remember the time he got bad second hand info about regional pricing from a bunch of devs that either lied or did not bother to look up how it all worked but he put it up anyway.

How do you trust someone that won't fact check things and just takes anything at face value because it gives him ammo to paint Valve in a bad light?

 

[Javier23]

Review bombing has its positive factors, but sure, lets have this discussion again.

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Review bombing shouldn't be tolerated, because it's not what the system is there for. I don't need 4chan brigading the Steam reviews of any given game again because how dare the devs push PC characters on their faces.

 

[eonden]

Review bombing shouldn't be tolerated, because it's not what the system is there for. I don't need 4chan brigading the Steam reviews of any given game again because how dare the devs push PC characters on their faces.

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Review bombing is more than that (as well as can be used by people wanting the other case, as Ion Fury initially was). But sure.

 

[Sailent]

Questioning a journalist is not like calling the "boys" for a raid.

Every poster in this thread has shown a decree of civility calling Grayson out of what he does, there's no such banding here.

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I was talking about the Devs and the people review bombing, not anyone in here.

 

[Tart Toter 9K]

I like how everyone's saying NG has an agenda when it's someone from Valve themselves saying "Yeah we might have messed up a bit."

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Because them saying "Yeah we might have messed up a bit." is more about how them saying anything in public is a mistake due to how anything they say tends to get twisted. We've literally heard first hand from people that worked with valve that they don't like talking publicly due to that very reason.

 

[m_dorian]

I was talking about the Devs and the people review bombing, not anyone in here.

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Even then you can't brand everyone as a nazi.

 

[Error 52]

Tim Sweeney: *Stabs a man to death*

Grayson: "Well if Gabe Newell didn't promote knife culture so much this wouldn't have happened"

 

[HK-47]

Review bombing is more than that (as well as can be used by people wanting the other case, as Ion Fury initially was). But sure.

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I don't think Ion Fury was really review bombed until they actually said they were removing things.

 

[Javetus]

By comments it means the only one it was made about the Metro Exodus exclusivity that was announced just days before the release date? It's not like Valve was pushing against Epic at every chance so I find odd that it's even mentioned.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Is he still trying to push the narrative that Valve's very tiny comment on the Metro Exodus shitstorm is the reason people complain about Epic? Instead of, you know, Epic and Tim Sweeney? No one would have noticed that this was happening unless Valve has mildly noted that it was unfair to customers?

 

[Charamiwa]

Who in their right mind got upset about these comments? Everyone but the most avid Valve hater understood what they meant by "unfair".

 

[Sailent]

Even then you can't brand everyone as a nazi.

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In this case, (The Iron Fury one) yes. They can prove me wrong though, if they chose to stop acting like alt right scum.

 

[Dr. Ludwig]

It's so funny since the shit Sweeney post in his goddamned twitter is far more egregious but let's take this small comment from Valve and blow it up to the point of absurdity.

The journalists pulling this shit are so transparent.

 

[NoblesseOblige]

I swear some y'all take your tips straight out of the gamergate playbook when certain authors are mentioned

 

[Vault]

Nathan Grayson again with the crusade

 

[Cecil]

I never understood why Valve's comment was controversial. The publisher created an unprecedented mess by pulling a game that had already been sold to people.

And it's even weirder that Kotaku don't hold them accountable at all for that, and are just keeping up their obsession with Valves comment instead.

 

[Deleted member 203]

My kingdom for just one (1) games journalist with an intelligent take on the Epic Games Store

 

[Pryme]

Who in their right mind got upset about these comments? Everyone but the most avid Valve hater understood what they meant by "unfair".

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Then why does the Valve rep interviewed acknowledge that negativity came out of people misinterpreting that comment?

 

[Pixieking]

I swear some y'all take your tips straight out of the gamergate playbook when certain authors are mentioned

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Urgh. This is why I deleted my rant on the previous page - criticising gaming articles shouldn't be out of bounds. Shitty op-ed style pieces masquerading as "news" that don't even come close to the SJP code of ethics and do nothing but add fuel to the fire of the EGS vs Steam "platform war" deserve to be called out for what they are. And yes, bringing to the fore a statement from over 6 months ago does add fuel to the fire, in a way that is pretty well obviously designed to be antagonistic.

But unfortunately, anything approaching criticism of gaming press will forever be tainted by GG. So, well, we're all stuck here criticising the obvious without being able to, well, criticise it.

 

[Tart Toter 9K]

Then why does the Valve rep interviewed acknowledge that negativity came out of people misinterpreting that comment?

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You mean the negativity that came out due to how Nathan misinterpereted the comment?

 

[ShinUltramanJ]

Valve has nothing to apologize for.

Calling Epic's moves unfair to Steam customers, who literally had the game yanked out from under them was perfectly fine - and true. it wasn't a lightning rod of anything. People were rightfully pissed off at Epic before the comments were ever made.

Is the author trying to create some new narrative?

 

[Vault]

Nathan Grayson has been running Epic Store damage control for over a year. Whenever Epic get bad PR he somehow blames it on Valve.

The man should write for the daily mail

 

[Pryme]

You mean the negativity that came out due to how Nathan misinterpereted the comment?

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Here is the actual quote from Blue, the Valve rep.

"I don't think that was our intent to upset people," Blue said. "It wasn't the intent of the message. It was more about the timing. The game was about to launch, and then it was [exclusive to the Epic store]. So that was the only goal of that. What came out of that was not what we expected. It wasn't meant to be this lightning rod.

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What does 'what came out was not what we expected' mean to you?

 

[Tart Toter 9K]

What does 'what came out was not what we expected' mean to you?

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The only things that came out of that was a bunch of articles about how valve is "whiny" and sicking their toxic pro consumer fanbase at Epic and Deep Silver. So yes, they didn't expect people to misinterpret their innocent comment like that.

 

[Pixieking]

The only things that came out of that was a bunch of articles about how valve is "whiny" and sicking their toxic pro consumer fanbase at Epic and Deep Silver. So yes, they didn't expect people to misinterpret their innocent comment like that.

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Yeah, this is how I read it too.

However...

There is an alternative reading that is "Valve apologises for shit stirring". But! Nathan doesn't actually ask for elaboration from Blue on what he means by "what came out was not what we expected". So the reader is left to infer based on feelings.

It's a shitty interview technique that leaves the reader to infer what is meant, and could've been corrected by Nathan emailing for clarification.

 

[sirap]

It wouldn't be a Grayson/Pro-EGS article without some gaslighting involved!

 

[Tart Toter 9K]

Yeah, this is how I read it too.

However...

There is an alternative reading that is "Valve apologises for shit stirring". But! Nathan doesn't actually ask for elaboration from Blue on what he means by "what came out was not what we expected". So the reader is left to infer based on feelings.

Shitty interview technique that leaves the reader to infer what is meant.

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If anything this entire discussion proves Valve right in never wanting to talk with the games media.

 

[Pixieking]

If anything this entire discussion proves Valve right in never wanting to talk with the press.

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Yup, absolutely.

 

[Deleted member 5596]

I mean, I think that while understandable, Valve comment wasn't appropriate, since it gave a validation to really angry people. The fact Valve didn't do it again it's proof that the company understands it did badly.

But also that fact makes the question so irrelevant rather than just remark about how badly they did almost one year ago.

Similar the whole issue with review bombing might have been an issue months ago (and blaming Ion Fury devs walking away on review bombing is... Well), but the company is actively trying to fix the misuse. Not sure attacking such a valuable costumer tool, specially when Valve is already trying to adjust it, is really worth a question in one of the very rare instances Valve is willing to talk.

Is really the most, relevant worthy questions, that you could make to Valve right now?

Even from the point of view "yeah, let's make hard questions to Valve" is pretty damn week.

 

[Plum]

This article though, it's something else.

https://wccftech.com/valve-steam-epic-exclusivity-comments-lightning-rod/

Literally the last sentence of the article:

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Reminds me of this little bit at the end of Epic's statement on the Ooblets developers' abuse.

Epic is working together with many game developers and other partners to build what we believe will be a healthier and more competitive multi-store world for the future.

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Why can't pro-EGS folks criticise the toxicity of the other side without simultaneously trying to advertise their own?

 

[derFeef]

How is this journalism. Who is even editing this? How can you allow so much nonsensical conjecture in just one article.

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I ask that every time Grayson writes an article about Valve. Where is Kotaku here? It's time to step in imo.

 

[Zips]

I ask that every time Grayson writes an article about Valve. Where is Kotaku here? It's time to step in imo.

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Given some of their editor's remarks on Twitter about Steam's "monopoly," I wouldn't be surprised if this article, and others like it, was already a group effort over there.

 

[LewieP]

Yeah I totally reject the premise of this article. If we're talking about who's responsible for escalating tension here, Tim Sweeney, and the developer threatening to stop supporting PC all together, were far more responsible.