The better players would also recognise that they're playing against better players.
The value of winning a match would increase massively.
Is the mech in ranked as well?
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Kotaku: Epic Says New Mech in Fortnite Was Added So More Players Can Win A Match
- Thread starter Saucycarpdog
- Start date
The value of winning a match would increase massively.
Historically, this really isn't the way people respond to SBMM in games. It's super controversial even in games like Call of Duty.
Catering to the "pro" crowd always hurts games. It is what has been damaging COD for years now. Post-launch balancing to catering to whiny "pros" at the expense of fun and ease of use for the average joe.
I don't even play fortnie but...
OH MY FUCKING GOD.
What were they thinking??? Also, that last guy was building like hell and still got oopsie ouchie'd. I still don't think they need to remove it... Just tune it a bit so it doesn't absolutely fuck your shit up.
Yep. Really noticed this over the last few years with the rise of big-name streamers. As soon as they start whining about something the rest of the Reddit/Twitter/etc community seems to follow them.
They always forget they're still a tiny tiny percentage of the overall playerbase.
Yeah, I heard that League, Dota2 and CSGO are really struggling to get enough players to start at least a single match these days.
The only reason I can see it being controversial is because players are used to being able to stomp on everyone.
It's a difficult problem to be sure. However, it seems like it's a necessary problem to solve. Otherwise you get issues like the mech.
The problem with something like a mech is that casual players are going to be just as or even more frustrated trying to fight it because they won't know of any tricks to try and counter it.
A good player gaining access to an overpowered item will just stomp all over the game even more so than usual.
A mechanic which is crazy overpowered makes everyone suffer. However, the lesser skilled players are the ones who will suffer the most.
You have to strike a balance between casuals and the dedicated/"hardcore" fans. Life is a balancing act, and these mechs seem pretty ridiculous and I don't think it helps anyone long term.
Good thing I don't play Fortnite because this would make me stop playing competitive, and I'm a casual player myself.
Good thing I don't play Fortnite because this would make me stop playing competitive, and I'm a casual player myself.
You know there is a big difference between games like those you mentioned and games like Fortnite and COD... gee if only I could put my finger on what it is...
I don't know, maybe some games do target a casual audience and others target a competitive audience? Who knows.
Doesn't really change the fact that "Catering to the "pro" crowd always hurts games" is a pretty dumb statement especially in the context of COD.
you can't make a competitive game and also cater to the scrubbiest people. you either do one or the other.
Catering to the pro crowd has consistently hurt COD this generation.
Citation needed.
And catering to casuals massively cratered Destiny 2. It's more popular than ever now that they're bringing making it more difficult.
I wonder how many competitive multiplayer games you actually play? The dedicated players are the backbone of any MP game and without them you don't have much sustainability.
As a CoD player: those games aren't catered to the pro crowd at all, if the pro crowd had final say things like Specialists wouldn't even exists. What's been ruining CoD is the same thing as this mech in Fortnite: giving bad players some extremely powerful toys so they can get some free, easy kills.
I was initially disappointed with Respawn choosing to not implement titans in Apex, but seeing what this mech has done in Fortnite makes me think they had the right idea.
I don't think you can put something like this in a BR without adding some movement mechanics and weapons that can act as an effective counter like we saw in the Titanfall games.
I don't think you can put something like this in a BR without adding some movement mechanics and weapons that can act as an effective counter like we saw in the Titanfall games.
COD has been doing the opposite. Tinkering with jack of all trade guns because pros whine about them being too common or too OP.
I'm pretty sure that the "pro crowd" didn't tell Activision to focus on a more casual gameplay style for consoles, told them to drop server support, told them to use a slow ass netcode for P2P stuff, told them to use their current pricing model or told them to not support big tournaments. I'd even say that it's pretty unlikely that the "pro crowd" told Activsion to kill the pro scene. But hey, feel free to believe in anything.
I'd rather lose fair than to a mech, that instant killed me with a hundred rockets perfectly paced to kill through building. I'm far from a Pro, but there's 0 chance I'll play Fortnite while the Mech is there.
Also the whole EPIC shouldn't cater to pros went out the window when they started regularly hosting million dollar tournaments. That ship has sailed and there's no fixing it, the average Fortnite player nowadays is pretty sweaty, have been since like season 5.
Yeah, no. There are many things that have hurt COD's popularity over the years, but catering to pro's is not one of them. Shitty MTX systems, shitty netcode and shitty P2W mechanics are probably the biggest reasons.
Epic need to delete this mech from existence.
This right here is one of the biggest reasons I've never been able to really love Fortnite. Building has been king for ages and Epic refuses to give people options or even nerf it in extremely small ways. As someone who isn't good at building, nor enjoys any aspect of it beyond the extra traversal it allows, it's just become less and less fun to play.
They just refuse to support meaningful counterplay to building and constantly removes the few good options that do counter it. Hell, I've wanted them to institute a cool down on spamming builds for ages just so you can't literally outlast an opponent just by having more materials. Not to mention, mobility was one of the things I thought Fortnite had done better than most BRs, and then they just keep removing all of those options too.
Redeploy gliders are incredibly valuable resource as is, so I don't see a problem in giving more counters to building since you could always just have those to offset potential death if you're going to build a ton.
without the building Fortnite would be just another third person battle royal, it is what makes it special.
I probably loose 3 out of every 10 build battles, so I'm not particular good at it, but without it I'd never play it this long.
What happens when they remove the mech and all those players who only got wins from that struggle again? They'll just go back to playing it less like before or even stop.
I haven't touched fortnite since the 2nd day of Season X because of the mech. It's just NOT fun. The top players in the game can't even counter it because it's overpowered.
I haven't touched fortnite since the 2nd day of Season X because of the mech. It's just NOT fun. The top players in the game can't even counter it because it's overpowered.
i was already on the outs with this game at the end of last season but played a few rounds this season and yeah, the mech sucks. way too OP, and there's this mad dash in the beginning of the match to get one, which eliminates a lot of players right away and games felt more empty as a result. after those rounds i was like "yeah i'm good see ya next season"
I didn't say to remove building, I said to give more engaging and valid counterplay to the strategy. As it stands, building is basically the king of all play and there's no real alternative options given to the player. That's where explosives and other mobility options come in to give players more choice while retaining building as a valid style of play as well. And then you can do little things like reduce building spam (such as not letting someone replace the same build a certain number of times, think putting up the same wall while you unload clip after clip trying to get to them without explosives) or maybe limit how much can be built in a certain time frame (you can't just spam walls as you're running away).
As it stands, I just find building is too strong with virtually no negative consequences to the player other than not being able to build more later on and MAYBE a chance of falling to your death if the structure is poorly rooted AND easily knocked down AND you don't have gliders. Not every game in Fortnite has to be a building battle all the damn time because there are enjoyable mechanics in other places that often get completely ignored for "just build bro."
Yeah, these guys spend far more time and energy in a game than the overwhelming majority of people do. Thats why they're "pros". What's competitive and what's balanced ain't always whats fun for the masses and at the end of the day, they can't run a business off a tiny part of their audience.
It's one thing to create something that reduces the skill floor, but the mech doesn't seem like a well thought out approach to that at all. I played a couple matches and it was clearly a dominant strategy that is far too difficult to counter and not a particularly fun one. The mech has all the issues that people initially claimed they had with the planes, but much worse and with far fewer positives
There are plenty of alternatives. Explosives (grenades, rocket & grenade launchers) will drop people down, grapple gun and bounce bombs can jump you up to the hyperactive builders without the need to put down a single piece of wood/stone/metal (and bounce bombs can also break structures really easily), proximity bombs can kill tower campers when used wisely. The game used to have even more but dumb Epic removed lots of stuff that were "pro approved" (or at least tolerated) that could help with getting to hyperactive builders (rift-a-fucks, hamster balls, quad bikes etc.).
There are also some pro glitches that can push you into cubes if someone tries to box themselves in.
People (not just pros) justifiably complained about stuff like the infinite redeployment & initial planes because they were poorly balanced. Infinite redeployment didn't help new playera, it helped pros move around with too much ease and sweep over lesser players like a tsunami because they could move around so easily. The planes were initially highly durable, their guns were just too accurate & deadly, they wrecked structures without a single scratch and allowed pro players to prey on weaker ones. People complained about them a lot less after they made a few adjustments. You could still do some damage to structures or make strategic drops to tall structures but you weren't an unstoppable flying bulldozer tank that takes forever to shoot down.
The problem with these was mostly only really in the basic game modes. They are one and done, so anything that feels cheap will just make those super frustrating and unfun to play. It's not fun to gather weapons & mats and wander around for 10-15 minutes, get into a fire and build fight and then have some asshole 3rd party swoop in and drop both of you down to your deaths by just simply flying through your structures. Might be fun to the one doing the flying but it's extremely frustrating to the ones on the receiving end of such cheap kills.
It's not as bad in Team Rumble because you'll just spawn again with all your weapons and materials but for something where a single round can be anywhere from 3 to 20+ minutes, it sucks ass to die to such cheap, badly balanced gimmicks that you can't counter.
Except you're exaggerating, and intentionally trying to make it sound as lame as possible.
People love to conveniently forget this reason in Epic's Brute write-up from yesterday : Another part of the mission is to provide spectacle and entertainment when playing Fortnite. Bringing these moments to the game every week means there is always a new way to enjoy and experience the game.
In the end you're just telling me your opinion on what kind of gameplay you find interesting, and that's fine, but I like moments of spectacle. Some of the encounters I've had with the mechs are way more memorable than your average vanilla Fortnite match that is always just a sea of wooden planks. I still feel like a really good Fortnite player can counter and kill a mech when needed. They're barely even a problem in solo due to the awkwardness of one person switching back and forth between both mech roles.
As a casual observer who never played Fortnite, didn't they make this exact mistake, and cop to it, with the infinity blade?
If you understand anything about game balance in competitive gaming, it's really not. Imagine a 2d fighting game where one character on the left can just press Right + X and send a bunch of unblockable one-hit KO projectiles at the other player. That's how good this addition is.
I don't take Fortnite that seriously, I feel this is nice addition for most of the players. I understand that everyone doesn't like it though and I would probably be in favor of them not being in actual competitive matches. But for public matches among randoms it's nice addition in my eyes.
Edit: Like the recent thread about Smash, where Hero was banned in the South Australian competitive scene. Though of course Epic also then needs to have such options available for any organizers where certain features can be turned off. If Epic is taking competitive scene seriously, then they should offer these options. Don't know if they do.
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I think this board can sometimes overlook the influence the pro scene has in fortnite - they are the ones making esports headlines and CNN Business headlines with the massive amounts of prize money, lessons being taught, etc. so the pro scene's opinion is not one to just disregard.
In addition to that, the game has not been good enough about separating casual from competitive balancing. The game needs to also focus on rewarding skill in the competitive scene
In addition to that, the game has not been good enough about separating casual from competitive balancing. The game needs to also focus on rewarding skill in the competitive scene
Why not just put shit like this in its own mode? Considering there's cross-play and Fortnite's huge popularity I'm sure the game can support such a mode without jeopardizing matchmaking times and connections.
This feels like 2 different groups of people talking about 2 different things.
One one hand you have the players saying "whenever this happens, it sucks".
On the other you have Epic saying "this doesn't happen that often".
The thing is Epic's data isn't addressing the actual complaint. The fact it doesn't happen that often isn't changing the fact that it ruins the match for everyone when it does happen.
One one hand you have the players saying "whenever this happens, it sucks".
On the other you have Epic saying "this doesn't happen that often".
The thing is Epic's data isn't addressing the actual complaint. The fact it doesn't happen that often isn't changing the fact that it ruins the match for everyone when it does happen.
Yes one of those groups hyper focuses on balancing and the other doesn't care
Oh my fucking god lol.
Really makes me appreciate the RSS, CSGO, PUBG etc devs. The absolute worst changes in those games are still better than this clusterfuck.
I genuinely love this forum's absolute clueless hot takes sometimes. :D
"they are both vidya games right, whats the difference"
lol fair. I kinda figured it was the former not the latter, I just didn't really know because I don't play Fortnite.