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Kotaku: Despite Huge Sales, Borderlands 3 Developers Are Getting Stiffed On Bonuses
- Thread starter Kenzodielocke
- Start date
I as a person from a corrupt country, can easily see how Randy made this game cost up to U$140mi.
Same. You want to support the devs but then their boss just screws them over in the end. Awful to read.
Yep, I'm pretty much expecting to never get a game with that logo on it again.
Unless I'm missing something, this is total clickbait. Based on the content of the article, Borderlands 3 has not made enough money for Gearbox to start receiving royalties. Accordingly, the developers' 40% split of $0 is $0.
And I also struggle to see the relevance regarding a bonus received by an owner of the business over three years ago. It was clearly not related to Borderlands 3.
And I also struggle to see the relevance regarding a bonus received by an owner of the business over three years ago. It was clearly not related to Borderlands 3.
Guess the employees never saw Christmas vacation.
article doesn't really give much to go on except for an increased budget and larger staff being the reason for lower bonuses. Which given the insane budget and larger staff, smaller bonuses make sense.
The article mainly relies on people's hate of pitchford to carry it as the reason. Must be something shady going on even though it clearly says the bonus he took was from the owners portion of the bonus structure which he's allowed to do.
Also looks like gearbox was founded by a few people. Are they still there? If so randy isn't the only one to blame but like everything related to gearbox it becomes a randy pitchford hate threa
article doesn't really give much to go on except for an increased budget and larger staff being the reason for lower bonuses. Which given the insane budget and larger staff, smaller bonuses make sense.
The article mainly relies on people's hate of pitchford to carry it as the reason. Must be something shady going on even though it clearly says the bonus he took was from the owners portion of the bonus structure which he's allowed to do.
Also looks like gearbox was founded by a few people. Are they still there? If so randy isn't the only one to blame but like everything related to gearbox it becomes a randy pitchford hate threa
Where did it say they didn't make enough money for the royalties?
I'm curious about this line right here:
Does this mean that theoretically the large bonus checks would arrive in future quarters after the $140m development cost was covered?
Does this mean that theoretically the large bonus checks would arrive in future quarters after the $140m development cost was covered?
Randy is the representative of the company so it's not unusual for him to receive all the hate.
I don't care if your company makes $0 or $1mil, if you promise your workers something, fucking stick with it. This is high key exploiting developers who could've just took their work elsewhere if they knew this was the case.
If you honestly believe a game that sold 5 million copies in 5 days didn't make money I dont know what to tell you.
Unless another Pitchford works at Gearbox, pretty sure this was all Randy.
I read the following:
As saying "Borderlands 3 sold a lot of copies, but the hurdle for receiving the royalties from which the employee bonuses are paid is currently higher than revenue to date."
I'm not sure what you expected from a game called Borderlands 3.
The bonus was paid to him in regards to what game....
I wouldn't be all that surprised if Randy's $12 million bonus was considered part of the game's expenses at this point.
To be fair, it wasn't that hard. I really felt like the Borderlands style and humor was completely exhausted. I feel sorry for the extreamly talented people stuck working under him but just can't get Randy any more money.
No one said the game did not make money. The money first goes to 2k to cover their costs, and that is why the bonuses are lower (they still exist). The big question is whether the devs knew that the game was so expensive, and that 2k would get all of their cut first.
I'm not sure if I get the whole picture. So, they were promised a certain amount of money as a bonus or certain percentages? Was it a written in the contract so they can now sue him? If it was a certain percentage (I mean, the article say it is 40%) it is obvious that the absolute amount can be lower due to fewer profits than anticipated due to changes within years of development. Does he withhold the 40%, does he only pay 30 or 20% or is it that employees expected the 40% to be higher in absolute numbers?
I mean, let's say you expect the 40% something like a 10.000EUR bonus to your salary because at the beginning of the development cost were expected to be lower (at the end) and sales/revenue the same they actually turned out to be. Now you see that cost were actually bigger than expected at the end, and the revenue the same and thus you get less profit than expected. And because you promised 40% of profits, you tell your employees it's not as high (e.g. those 10.000 EUR) as expected but only like 5.000 EUR.
I mean, let's say you expect the 40% something like a 10.000EUR bonus to your salary because at the beginning of the development cost were expected to be lower (at the end) and sales/revenue the same they actually turned out to be. Now you see that cost were actually bigger than expected at the end, and the revenue the same and thus you get less profit than expected. And because you promised 40% of profits, you tell your employees it's not as high (e.g. those 10.000 EUR) as expected but only like 5.000 EUR.
I guess it can be interpreted that way but that's not what I took from it. Simply that it was a step that had to first be met, not that it hasn't as of yet.
After sales from those millions of copies plus EGS exclusivity money bag, they still didn't make enough money for everyone?
Sounds like AAA industry alright.
Did you even read the article, or just the headline? The problem is that people are getting a smaller bonus, and not the big numbers (up to 6 figures, supposedly) that they had been led to expect.
Look, I don't know. I'm not familiar with any of Gearbox's business, really.
But all I see are accusations that developers took bonuses less than they expected. And they're complaining that the boss makes too much money. That's basically every business ever.
I don't see anyone outright saying that anyone is cooking the books on this.
All of these people being incredibly pedantic about how MUCH the game accrued over its budget are missing the forest for the trees; what we're seeing isn't delayed bonuses that are still of the promised amounts, but heavily reduced. Period. The game sold bonkers, is still selling bonkers (and just came out in Steam in fact so that's a HUGE source of revenue for it), and will have plenty of upcoming DLC/events to keep raking in dough. There is absolutely NO possible outcome where BL3 isn't something in the realm of a 10 million unit seller by the end of this year, if it hasn't already reached that number. With DLC factored in, even a conservative estimate of sales/season passes/special editions would have BL3 accruing at least 400m+ to date in revenue. There is ABSOLUTELY the money in hand to pay these employees what they were promised.
So because it happens in 'basically every business ever', that means it shouldn't be talked about and brought up in context like this? Maybe you're fine just saying 'shit happens' but this shit doesn't fly with a lot of people and needs to be highlighted when it happens.
I say the above because you started this conversation accusing the article of clickbait, btw.
Now I understand. Ultimately, this sounds like there was a dramatic failure in communication regarding the bonuses. The Gearbox executive team must've known for a long time that there was no way there'd be large bonuses for everyone, which they would've learned from budget projections over a year ago.
Dropping that bomb at the end of the second fiscal quarter following the release of the game seems like the type of move if you wanted employees to stay happy to ensure a smooth launch. Now these same employees are in the position where if they leave in disgust, they won't get the long-term royalties that are sure to come. If they stay, they'll do so knowing that their exec team pulled a bait and switch while raking it in.
There is a cookie fortune quote for exact this situation: If you serve a meanie don't be surprised if you get paid with meanness
It's fucking Randy Pitchfork ffs. What did they expect. Should've made waterproof contracts first if the devs ever hoped for 6 dig salaries imo
It's fucking Randy Pitchfork ffs. What did they expect. Should've made waterproof contracts first if the devs ever hoped for 6 dig salaries imo
Dude has seemingly no limit. What a terrible human being.
... That's an insult to rats.
... That's an insult to rats.
That sums up what seems to be happening pretty nicely, yes. People were lead to believe that they would get bigger bonuses quicker than they will, despite the game being a huge success.
Randy's rhinestone and sequins cowboy shirts aren't going to pay for themselves. Seriously though, Randy is a scumbag.
Apart from the obvious reason (that the CEO/exec team are unscrupulous individuals), why on earth wouldn't they communicate to staff about the 2k contract and potentially smaller bonuses sooner? From the moment they costs started spiralling, this could've been spun into a "your hard work will be rewarded, but over a longer time period" message.
Bonuses are always BS.
I hate how companies use them as carrots on sticks and as an excuse for low wages.
Pay people what they're worth. Give reasonable bonuses when you can, obviously.
People will be happy with a small bonus if it genuinely a bonus and not just withheld wages.
I hate how companies use them as carrots on sticks and as an excuse for low wages.
Pay people what they're worth. Give reasonable bonuses when you can, obviously.
People will be happy with a small bonus if it genuinely a bonus and not just withheld wages.
The Witcher 3 is nothing like the first game anymore, even the sequel. Recent Final Fantasy games are totally different from one to another. You get the idea.
But you're right, there were enough pre-release resources to conclude that it's just another Borderlands.
I did, and I understand it too.
I just had thought that you were trying to justify the low bonus because they didn't make enough money. Seems like I read your post wrong, my bad.
You know, for a really long time I gave Randy the benefit of the doubt. He always just seemed like an eccentric egomaniac, but not a criminal. These past couple years I have totally flipped in that assessment. If he has any dignity or compassion for his employees, he'll take a pay cut and fluff up some of their bonuses. Though given he likely told them to "quit if they don't like it", that isn't going to happen. His ass is totally on the hook for this, simply due to a lack of communication and follow-through.
That being said, I could see Take Two/2K greed being an additional wrinkle to this narrative. I mean, we just heard rumblings about them wanting Rockstar to pump out games in like a third of their usual production timeline. I bet they were behind the Epic Games Store decision too.
Oh, and for the folks who are shocked BL3 cost almost 150 million to make... that is the reality of AAA game development now. Hundreds or even thousands of people working at roughly 5-figure monthly rates for 5-7 years, plus a marketing blitz at the end costs a lot of money. I would say it's honestly shocking it only cost that much to actually make the game, given the likely length of development.
That being said, I could see Take Two/2K greed being an additional wrinkle to this narrative. I mean, we just heard rumblings about them wanting Rockstar to pump out games in like a third of their usual production timeline. I bet they were behind the Epic Games Store decision too.
Oh, and for the folks who are shocked BL3 cost almost 150 million to make... that is the reality of AAA game development now. Hundreds or even thousands of people working at roughly 5-figure monthly rates for 5-7 years, plus a marketing blitz at the end costs a lot of money. I would say it's honestly shocking it only cost that much to actually make the game, given the likely length of development.