Kotaku: Deep-Pocketed Collectors Are Fueling A Retro Game Gold Rush

SecretCharacter · Aug 9, 2019

I'm one of the people who collects and pays to have comic books graded/encapsulated. In my case, many of the books I work with are 20+ years old (I've got an early 60s Superman waiting to go out) and being exposed to the elements with soft bags does mean that these books will eventually break down or get damaged. Fortunately for the hobby, stories have been reprinted ad-infinium for casual readers and many are being scanned to be enjoyed digitally. Paper simply doesn't hold up to time as well as other mediums.

With games, the actual chips and code are the product. The preservation of the box artwork, manual, etc is part of the full product, but I would much rather preserve the game itself. Now the other problem with games is that many of them are not playable outside of their respective platforms without the use of emulation. Sealed copies are great and all, but what happens when you really want to play Burning Rangers and don't have the means to do so because you have a sealed copy and your Saturn died?
Other issues I see are carts that have batteries in them. Sure, you may have a sealed Legend of Zelda, but in 10 years or so the cart will be eating itself due to battery rot.

If anything, I'd actually like to see a better hardware conservation effort rather than encapsulating games. Certain lasers are already impossible to find and getting on-board replacements for electrical components may get difficult in the future as well. An excellent example of this are the arcade games Dragon's Lair and Space Ace. The original LaserDisc players that these use are literally impossible to replace. The LDs are non-existent anymore either. The workaround is an emulated computer that runs a digital copy of the LD. It isn't perfect, but it's one of those things where the hardware was actually the thing to die first in almost all cases.

Deleted member 4869 · Aug 9, 2019

The only games I "collect" (And I put it on quotation marks, because I don't care about boxes or seals) are games that I actually played and enjoyed when I was a kid. I don't care to buy games just because they are expensive or rare, only games that have some nostalgic value to me.

I think the most expensive games I own are the 6 NES Mega Man games, the 4 mainline Mega Man games on the SNES (X, X2, X3 and VII), Earthbound, Secret of Mana, Chrono Trigger (This is the only one that has a box), and some others. They are some of my most cherished possessions. I don't think I'll ever sell them.

Nolbertos · Aug 9, 2019

My gaming collection goes back to the PSX and alot of there are still sealed and probably rare. After that dude sold his rare Kid Icarus box, tempted to try my luck in the rare gaming auctions and see what sells. I know I got alot of rare RPGs that go limited release out West, that I wanted to play but don't have time anymore.

RKasa · Aug 9, 2019

Curler said:
At least with things like sealed figures (for the most part), you can at least SEE the figure when displayed in the box.

Even then, it's not a good idea to keep figures sealed long-term. The plasticizer breaks down over time which can lead to some very sticky figures if they're left in their boxes (since sealed figures are never been exposed to the air, there's nowhere for the vaporized plasticizer to go). Speaking from experience, it's no fun finally getting a long-wanted figure, which happens to be sealed, only to find out that it's covered in a sticky film.

So yeah, I open just about everything!

samred · Aug 9, 2019

I'm surprised Chris didn't link to my Wednesday story about the most recent Nintendo World Championship cartridge discovery:

https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2019/08/13000-nes-cartridge-found-at-the-bottom-of-a-safeway-sack/

From my story:

one interested buyer from Florida began "non-stop calling"

...I wonder if that's the Danielle Smith from Florida quoted at the top of the Kotaku story.

Torpedo Vegas · Aug 9, 2019

I have a sealed A Link to the past and Castlevania IV on SNES from getting Nintendo Power and already owning them.

TheChrisGlass · Aug 9, 2019

I go to a twice-a-year event called SC3 which is for classic video games.
In addition to having tons of old games playable there, on all kinds of consoles and arcade units, there's raffles, trades and sellers.

The sellers in the last 5 years or so have gone from people just selling off what they had for decent prices, to jackasses bringing in briefcases with glass see-through cutouts and trying to hawk $400 copies of Chrono Trigger sealed or whatever.

They're not in the market for the love of video games. They're only in it because they want money. They have completely ruined the market and taken up space that should have been reserved for people who want to trade games that'll actually get played. The people who coordinate the event have finally gotten it under control, but it's something they shouldn't have had to deal with in the first place.

Virtually no one was actually buying their overpriced sealed copies. It was just a dick measuring contest for the 20 or so people who came in to show off their rare collections. Meanwhile there's a dude next to him with a bucket of loose GB carts that are $3 for 10 and I'm going nuts in there grabbing what I can.

There WILL be a crash because the demand for the inflated titles is artificial. They won't "only" go up because at some point they'll realize they're just shifting the cost between a smaller and smaller group that's pricing themselves out as the others move onto the next collector craze of Funko Pops or whatever.

thewienke · Aug 9, 2019

Ishida said:
The only games I "collect" (And I put it on quotation marks, because I don't care about boxes or seals) are games that I actually played and enjoyed when I was a kid. I don't care to buy games just because they are expensive or rare, only games that have some nostalgic value to me.

I think the most expensive games I own are the 6 NES Mega Man games, the 4 mainline Mega Man games on the SNES (X, X2, X3 and VII), Earthbound, Secret of Mana, Chrono Trigger (This is the only one that has a box), and some others. They are some of my most cherished possessions. I don't think I'll ever sell them.

Yeah I have several hundred games and they were all some sort of fond memory that I had as a kid, teenager, or young adult. I like having the original copies playing on original hardware because I can replicate those great memories via a tactile sensation that was identical to my childhood.

For me my three most expensive games are:

Steambot Chronicles PS2
Marvel vs Capcom PS2 (and Dreamcast)
Dragon Warrior 3 NES

So what makes me feel like I'm taking crazy pills about video game collecting is that so many of those "rare" titles out there aren't great (people paying thousands for Cheetahmen? Really?). They are most likely not anything that somebody would think "I really want to play this right now". It feels like collecting for collecting's sake and that's a slippery slope because you'll have to build your collection it's own mansion if you want to collect everything ever. I guarantee you'll burn out long before completing it anyway.

I also personally don't pay extra for sealed games or for cardboard. I get why people do that if they have fond memories of the box maybe but when I was a kid those cardboard prisons went immediately into the trash. Why should I hold my present self to a higher standard and spend thousands more over the life of collecting?

Windrunner · Aug 9, 2019

thewienke said:
So what makes me feel like I'm taking crazy pills about video game collecting is that so many of those "rare" titles out there aren't great (people paying thousands for Cheetahmen? Really?).

This is a problem that is particularly extreme among North American NES collectors. On any other system unlicensed or bootleg games aren't considered parts of a "full-set" but this particular niche expanded beyond that so they would have more holy grails to chase and prestige pieces for their collection. It doesn't matter that these games are all garbage and no more legitimate than a Chinese bootleg, what matters is that they are rare and expensive. In a way it's not surprising that North American comic collectors would turn their eye to NES collecting, that market was already collecting for the sake of it and trying to establish Cheetahmen 2, Action 52, Hot Slots etc as being essential for completion's sake as a community so the value of their investments would rise.

Luckily other formats are a lot saner!

Deleted member 4869 · Aug 9, 2019

thewienke said:
Yeah I have several hundred games and they were all some sort of fond memory that I had as a kid, teenager, or young adult. I like having the original copies playing on original hardware because I can replicate those great memories via a tactile sensation that was identical to my childhood.

For me my three most expensive games are:

Steambot Chronicles PS2
Marvel vs Capcom PS2 (and Dreamcast)
Dragon Warrior 3 NES

So what makes me feel like I'm taking crazy pills about video game collecting is that so many of those "rare" titles out there aren't great (people paying thousands for Cheetahmen? Really?). They are most likely not anything that somebody would think "I really want to play this right now". It feels like collecting for collecting's sake and that's a slippery slope because you'll have to build your collection it's own mansion if you want to collect everything ever. I guarantee you'll burn out long before completing it anyway.

I also personally don't pay extra for sealed games or for cardboard. I get why people do that if they have fond memories of the box maybe but when I was a kid those cardboard prisons went immediately into the trash. Why should I hold my present self to a higher standard and spend thousands more over the life of collecting?

Agreed. I just cannot understand people paying for garbage like that Caltron NES cartridge full of crap games. :/

awake4ages · Aug 9, 2019

nicoga3000 said:
They can contact me and purchase my 1 of 21 copies of this that were produced.

As a custom game, not an official US release.

OK I'll bite. what the hell is this lmao

Rygar 8Bit · Aug 9, 2019

unoillnino said:
Its only valuable as long as somebody cares about it. I don't think enough people will care to keep it relevant. It might be rare, but there's tons of rare shit out there that is worthless because nobody wants it. That'll be NES games eventually.

How old do you think people who grew up with NES are? I'm 35 and I grew up with it, I think I'll be alive still in 20 years. If anything prices won't drop on that stuff until my generation dies in another 35-40 years at least.

Calverz · Aug 9, 2019

As long as there are numpties around like in this article willing to pay laughable prices, games will continue to go up in value. But only sealed copies.

Meatwad · Aug 9, 2019

My philosophy for collecting has always been to just collect games I either love or am interested in playing. Thankfully the majority of quality games are inexpensive but sometimes you'll get something like Panzer Dragoon Saga, A high quality game, I'd love to experience but because of a low print run at the end of an unpopular system's life it's extremely expensive. But the high price tag with the idea of maybe making more off it in the future, is not my drive

nicoga3000 · Aug 9, 2019

perpetuallyawake said:
OK I'll bite. what the hell is this lmao

The Portopia Serial Murder Case - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

It's an old Famicom game. It's pretty solid. Not a ton of adventure games on the NES, so anything is welcome!

Curler · Aug 9, 2019

RKasa said:
Even then, it's not a good idea to keep figures sealed long-term. The plasticizer breaks down over time which can lead to some very sticky figures if they're left in their boxes (since sealed figures are never been exposed to the air, there's nowhere for the vaporized plasticizer to go). Speaking from experience, it's no fun finally getting a long-wanted figure, which happens to be sealed, only to find out that it's covered in a sticky film.

So yeah, I open just about everything!

Good point. When I see old toys from early 90s and beyond, the packaging DOES start to yellow. Something does look really nice of seeing the figure and accessories all displayed on-card. Unlike most figures today, you kinda have to ruin the packaging to even remove them :/

thewienke said:
For me my three most expensive games are:

Steambot Chronicles PS2
Marvel vs Capcom PS2 (and Dreamcast)
Dragon Warrior 3 NES

Wow I had no idea Steambot was so much now! I thought I already bought it, but looks like it was the PSP one I own.

As for stuff I collect and buy, it gets pretty niche... I don't do full sets of formats, not a fan of that. I do something tougher: CIB GB/GBC/GBA >_> At least, that's my focus and priority, only because almost everyone threw those in the trash. Some of those prices have reallllly gone up there over the years, and I had started focusing on other stuff. Still, it's fun to go hunting and come across stuff like that when I do! Started using a price guide, based on the cheapest version of the game I saw on eBay. Then I don't have to sit there in bad signal to see if it's a good deal or just overpricing it cause 'retro'. Fortunately for me, I don't collect Nintendo console before GameCube, so the handheld is still a niche and not quite as desirable right now, I don't think.

Teh_Lurv · Aug 9, 2019

perpetuallyawake said:
OK I'll bite. what the hell is this lmao

Edit: ~~Looks like it's a NES homebrew game.~~ That's another collecting niche that has titles that command surprisingly high prices. Old homebrew titles like the Garage Cart and 8-bit Xmas 2008 go for $1,000+ to homebrew collectors.

Meatwad · Aug 9, 2019

Right now I'm focusing on collecting 3DS and Wii U games. I find it fun to collect for newer systems with high quality game libraries, where the majority of it is still relatively cheap

The_R3medy · Aug 9, 2019

Man, Kotaku has been killing it lately with really good stories about the games industry and community. Hats off to them.

Rygar 8Bit · Aug 9, 2019

Meatwad said:
Right now I'm focusing on collecting 3DS and Wii U games. I find it fun to collect for newer systems with high quality game libraries, where the majority of it is still relatively cheap

That's the time to do it.

RobFox64tm · Aug 9, 2019

RalliArtEvo said:
This article is talking about a specific subset of super high end collectors looking for mint sealed games, not your "average" collector just looking to pickup games at a reasonable price. This is a completely different world.

I hope so. I only collect games I'd like to play, and while condition is important to me, I don't see any reason to build up a collection of sealed games.

EllipsisBreak · Aug 9, 2019

Speaking as a collector, I really can't recommend interacting with VGA in any way, or buying anything sealed (unless it's somehow still in high supply and readily available at a low price). You can build an amazing playable library for a fraction of that kind of money.

Kenai · Aug 9, 2019

It's a shame that people are in it for the money and not the love. I have a NA Fire Emblem collection I'm proud of with some genuinely rare stuff in it (I have most of the CEs, pre-release pins and cel art, and even a FE 3DS, all sealed and in OG packaging), but it's because I love Fire Emblem and have loose or digital copies of everything I bought just so I wouldn't have to open them. I will never tut-tut people collecting stuff, but it does seem rude af to be keeping rare copies just because rather than allowing them to be dumped by people who want the game to be saved. If you love that game/franchise why would you want it to be potentially lost forever?

Wulfric · Aug 9, 2019

If someone is getting a retail game sealed and graded: Eh, whatever. It's your money.
If someone is getting a unique prototype graded: Hmmm

If someone is interested in loose copies of bestselling games, that's still easy enough to get into. Chances are those games also have been re-released over the years. Most people don't have to worry about sealed game collecting.

Nessus · Aug 9, 2019

RalliArtEvo said:
This article is talking about a specific subset of super high end collectors looking for mint sealed games, not your "average" collector just looking to pickup games at a reasonable price. This is a completely different world.

Yeah it seems like a lot of people replying didn't really read the article.

I doubt rich collectors going after specific unopened first prints of iconic games that sold millions of copies is going to have a permanent effect on prices for people who just want a complete library and don't care about what printing they are or if they're even complete in box. It's also very different from people who pay tens of thousands of dollars for a loose copy of Stadium Events, a game no one's heard of and isn't good.

The one woman gave an example of old school video game collectors who didn't even know the difference between the first print cover art of Super Mario Bros. 3 and later revisions, and that seems to track. That's not the kind of thing most gamers care about. I know myself the only reason I'd ever want a sealed copy of something like Super Mario Bros. is so I could immediately open it and experience that all over again. And even then I wouldn't care, at all, what printing it was.

It's like how CGC collectors are more interested in Detective Comics 27 than they are in Detective Comics 1. Who even knows what was in Detective Comics 1? But Detective Comics 27 is the first appearance of Batman, so it's iconic and therefore extremely valuable, especially if it's in good shape.

Yeah in the short term this will probably make everything more expensive as people completely misread the situation, but I doubt it'll be a permanent change. These new Wata Games collectors aren't interested in the same things that old school video game collectors are.

Josh5890 · Aug 9, 2019

The prices are the main reason why I got out of the game for the most part. I don't even actively go to garage sales because scalpers already swarm them by 7:00 am. If I am retro game hunting, I want it to be fun and cost reasonable.

xir · Aug 9, 2019

how many places actually slab/rate games now?

Teh_Lurv · Aug 9, 2019

xir said:
how many places actually slab/rate games now?

VGA and Wata are the only two companies I'm aware of that carry any clout in the collecting community.

DeadMoonKing · Aug 9, 2019

Thankfully, my collection interests are very specific. (JRPGs for Japanese systems)
For SNES, I like CIB, for PlayStation and Saturn, I don't mind if it's missing the obi.

The most I've ever paid for a JRPG was around 6000 yen for a CIB copy of Live A Live. The most for a game in general was 9000 yen for a copy of Order of Ecclesia. I used to see Aria of Sorrow for 9800 CIB, but now it's double that.

Everything I get, I get to play. (Though realistically, given that I love JRPGs and my time is limited, I think some of these are going to be sitting there for a very long time.) I'm also slowly selling off my old NTSC PS JRPG collection from when I was a kid, since I'm never going to be playing these again in English.

edit: manual->obi

Cow Mengde · Aug 9, 2019

My copy of Ducktales 2 is in near mint condition. Easily my most valuable game. Bought it shortly before Woolworth went out of business.

Wulfric · Aug 9, 2019

DeadMoonKing said:
Thankfully, my collection interests are very specific. (JRPGs for Japanese systems)
For SNES, I like CIB, for PlayStation and Saturn, I don't mind if it's missing the manual.

The most I've ever paid for a JRPG was around 6000 yen for a CIB copy of Live A Live. The most for a game in general was 9000 yen for a copy of Order of Ecclesia. I used to see Aria of Sorrow for 9800 CIB, but now it's double that.

Everything I get, I get to play. (Though realistically, given that I love JRPGs and my time is limited, I think some of these are going to be sitting there for a very long time.) I'm also slowly selling off my old NTSC PS JRPG collection from when I was a kid, since I'm never going to be playing these again in English.

You made me curious and Castlevania prices have gotten really bad, even for NTSC regions. Aria of Sorrow is $150-$200 CIB and Order of Ecclesia is hitting $90.

Jer · Aug 9, 2019

This is a weird market even for comics. I've always thought the exponential curve at the high end was bizarre, like people paying 2-3X for a CGC 9.8 over a 9.6 when they look damn near the same to the naked eye. Conflicts of interest too, like CGC operating a pressing company, that means they're incentivized to change the grade, otherwise no one would pay for the press.

This video game market has all that weirdness, but on top of that the grading companies seem way less reputable and the number of high end collectors seem way lower. Seems like a market I'd want to stay far, far away from.

Edit - Just further thinking about why this seems like a terrible idea, Action 1 and Tec 27 seem different, because they're actually rare in any grade. Lots of people want one, and there's just not that many out there, driving value. OTOH, SMB 1 is incredibly common. Lots of people want one, and they can buy it at the local game store for $5. No one's nostalgic for a sealed box with SMB 1 in it, they're nostalgic for SMB 1 itself. The whole market just feels invented and really bubbly.

Majadamus · Aug 9, 2019

I wish I never sold my NES collection to Funcoloand. When that fucking store was buying my games for pennies, I should've known I was getting ripped off, even as a kid. :( I should stocked up on video games too when those old games were selling for pennies.

Alligatorjandro · Aug 9, 2019

Retro game prices are starting to get wild. A lot of PS2 games are getting expensive. I dont even bother looking at Saturn games anymore because they are just ridiculous now.

low-G · Aug 9, 2019

Meh, phone me when my copy of Panzer Dragoon Saga is worth a cool million.

Game Rogue · Aug 9, 2019

Alligatorjandro said:
Retro game prices are starting to get wild. A lot of PS2 games are getting expensive. I dont even bother looking at Saturn games anymore because they are just ridiculous now.

Yup... right now, there's a Daytona USA Netlink version for 5k on eBay.

DeadMoonKing · Aug 9, 2019

Wulfric said:
You made me curious and Castlevania prices have gotten really bad, even for NTSC regions. Aria of Sorrow is $150-$200 CIB and Order of Ecclesia is hitting $90.

For a series as beloved as Castlevania and acclaimed as the Igavania games are, they sure didn't print a lot of copies...

Game Rogue said:
Yup... right now, there's a Daytona USA Netlink version for 5k on eBay.

Saturn games are obscene. Not to boast at all, but I'm so glad I have the Japanese one and can play them in Japanese. Picked up all three parts of Shining Force III for less than 10,000 yen.

I think we are going to start seeing Gamecube games go up as well...

Wulfric · Aug 9, 2019

Teh_Lurv Do you think the PS2/Xbox/GCN generation is going to get a bump from this surge in WATA games?

There was a copy of Halo that seemed to sell quite well on Heritage, although I'm sure that was because it was one of those more rare printings.

Wumbo64 · Aug 9, 2019

Collecting retro games is a very funny thing.

I personally don't see the value in collecting sealed copies of older titles. Not just because digital distribution has evolved how we order and consume content, but because these things aren't really that old.

I recently looked into getting some sealed copies of some of the classics for decoration in my room, but found was turned off by the astronomical expense. Instead, I found there is a market for reproducing older game boxes and inserts. Since these things were only made a maximum of 50 years ago, the materials and processes are usually still documented.

For example, I found I could have a nearly identical (most reproduction people have to have a mark of some sort to deter counterfeiting) box made for Ocarina of Time, then get a used cart and stuff it in there. It probably cost less than a tenth of buying sealed, which can be damaged or end up being a huge liability in the mail. Plus, I can probably get a dirty or marked up cart, clean it up, then use that and prevent someone from perhaps throwing it away and ending up in a landfill.

I am sure eventually folks will even start recreating shrink wrapping and retailer-specific promotional tags for them. With stuff like the Limited Run Games reproductions of old Star Wars games, companies are even fabricating carts. The argument for authenticity justifying these absurd prices is shrinking. Video games aren't hundreds of year old antiques with complex manufacturing processes.

MrPoppins · Aug 9, 2019

It's pretty crazy how prices have held or increased over the last several years. I tallied my rather modest collection of consoles and carts/discs in a spreadsheet last year and based one eBay prices it would cost me at least 15K to replace. What's craziest is newer Nintendo games. For example I got a BOTW Master Edition I never ended up opening and those are going for $500 and up now.

Sectorseven · Aug 10, 2019

Someone start a retro game ETF.

Charismagik · Aug 10, 2019

I've bought some comics graded/slabbed just because I wanted perfect copies. I broke them all out of the plastic and was surprised at how inconsistent the grading quality actually was

TaySan · Aug 10, 2019

No one should have to pay thousands just to play a game. Companies really need to release their backlog on modern platforms.

Teh_Lurv · Aug 10, 2019

Wulfric said:
Teh_Lurv Do you think the PS2/Xbox/GCN generation is going to get a bump from this surge in WATA games?

There was a copy of Halo that seemed to sell quite well on Heritage, although I'm sure that was because it was one of those more rare printings.

I wouldn't be surprised. One thing I've noticed over the past decade is as 8/16-bit collecting heated up, collectors started speculating on newer systems while prices were low. The end result was games like Rule of Rose started shooting up in price. Right now, comic collectors seem focused on 8/16 bit systems, but I expect soon (if not now) collectors start buying/slabbing/grading rarer variants of the 32-bit systems and beyond.

Hzsn724 · Aug 10, 2019

Reading this made me realize that I am not a collector after all. I am a gamer with a ton of retro games.

Deleted member 29237 · Aug 10, 2019

Teh_Lurv said:
I wouldn't be surprised. One thing I've noticed over the past decade is as 8/16-bit collecting heated up, collectors started speculating on newer systems while prices were low. The end result was games like Rule of Rose started shooting up in price. Right now, comic collectors seem focused on 8/16 bit systems, but I expect soon (if not now) collectors start buying/slabbing/grading rarer variants of the 32-bit systems and beyond.

GameCube games are already getting a bit pricey! Thankfully I picked up a lot of the ones I was interested in a few years back before they started creeping up too much.

Wulfric · Aug 11, 2019

I'm very curious as to how many sealed chase NES/SNES titles still exist compared to their iconic comic book counterparts.

Supply will be even more constrained if sealed is considered the "gold standard" among this new generation of collectors.

Rickenslacker · Aug 11, 2019

It's funny to see the mentality taken from comic books and applied to video game collecting, whereas I kind of have the opposite approach in that I only buy comics digitally. I don't care for the collection aspect at all, variant covers mean nothing to me, and sealing and storing would be a waste of my space.

Expy · Aug 11, 2019

Well, you snooze, you lose.

Should've hunted for these long ago.

claudelabonte · Aug 11, 2019

Gave all my retro stuff - for free - to kids who never played it/wanted to experience retro gaming. I encourage you to do the same!

EAT THE RICH

Kotaku: Deep-Pocketed Collectors Are Fueling A Retro Game Gold Rush

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