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[Kotaku] Console Players Can’t Beat The Division 2’s Raid
- Thread starter dex3108
- Start date
A bit of both I think. M&K clearly allow midly-decent players to have the same (if not more) efficiency as high-tiers players playing on controller, that's for sure. But I also think PC may have the most hardcore community.
The funny thing is ubisoft could probably do something for console only gamers to be able to beat it and is planning on it. Something as simple as lowering the damage from enemies or increasing the damage players do could make a world of difference if there aren't any enemies requiring twitch reactions.
If there is crossplay between pc and console players though, the issue got more complicated.
I've yet to experience a 'raid' on these looter shooters that didn't feel like a masssssssssive bullet soak grind. Destiny's raids seemed the most interesting, but nothing I'd ever want to do twice.
I get pretty bored pretty fast repeating content like that. Always shocking to hear people with hundreds, or thousands of hours pouring over the same content for some slightly different spec gear or some cosmetics. But I guess if those people find it rewarding, more power to them, especially if they're not double charging you for a sub.
That's what blew my mind about WoW/etc model. Pay $60/etc for game. Pay $40-$60 for expansions. Still pay $XX/mo for sub? And they got PC players to do this?? Incredible. The palaces of solid gold bars accumulated at Blizz over the years could probably reach the moon by now.
Sort of a side rant, but the number of subs you can get wrapped up in these days is just stunning. XBLG, PS+, NintyOnline, Netflix, Amazon, Hulu, CBS, Disney, HBO, and now seemingly EVERY other media company in the universe. Cut the cord they said. Replace them with 73 subscriptions they say. Le sigh.
I get pretty bored pretty fast repeating content like that. Always shocking to hear people with hundreds, or thousands of hours pouring over the same content for some slightly different spec gear or some cosmetics. But I guess if those people find it rewarding, more power to them, especially if they're not double charging you for a sub.
That's what blew my mind about WoW/etc model. Pay $60/etc for game. Pay $40-$60 for expansions. Still pay $XX/mo for sub? And they got PC players to do this?? Incredible. The palaces of solid gold bars accumulated at Blizz over the years could probably reach the moon by now.
Sort of a side rant, but the number of subs you can get wrapped up in these days is just stunning. XBLG, PS+, NintyOnline, Netflix, Amazon, Hulu, CBS, Disney, HBO, and now seemingly EVERY other media company in the universe. Cut the cord they said. Replace them with 73 subscriptions they say. Le sigh.
I must not understand what this raid is like, but it seems to me that expecting people to beat it within 24 hours is weird. Raids for other games usually require more than that.
Raids in Destiny are not really like MMO raids. It's expected to be beaten and are designed to be done within the first 24 hours (even less honestly) by dedicated groups.
People were expecting this raid to be similar to Destiny in design.
The players have a point when several PC players manage to do it and none on consoles. Many here miss the actual point though:
This isn't a discussion about the raid being too difficult but about bad balancing on consoles, people. Division 2 is definitely a lot harder than Div 1 was, especially due to not having full auto health recovery etc. but I already knew that balancing on consoles would be pretty shoddy.
This isn't a discussion about the raid being too difficult but about bad balancing on consoles, people. Division 2 is definitely a lot harder than Div 1 was, especially due to not having full auto health recovery etc. but I already knew that balancing on consoles would be pretty shoddy.
The sad part is if you use a DS4 on pc then you can set it up to use gyro aim for any game if you want.
I disagree with making it easier. Raids are meant to be the toughest part of the content.
Last Wish Raid took around 24 hours on Destiny 2 to complete. WoW raids took months. It's all about finding the right gear and strat. It's not about going in there blindly and just shooting, it's trial and error.
Last Wish Raid took around 24 hours on Destiny 2 to complete. WoW raids took months. It's all about finding the right gear and strat. It's not about going in there blindly and just shooting, it's trial and error.
At least they aren't gimping the PC experience because the console versions are too sluggish to keep up. Good on Ubisoft for that one.
I'm hyped for an actual challenging mission that takes planning/trial and error. People CONSTANTLY complain about loot shooters not having enough endgame content, well here you go.
Maybe the console version is the intended difficulty and PC players were able to brute force it with the keyboard/mouse?
Maybe the console version is the intended difficulty and PC players were able to brute force it with the keyboard/mouse?
Think the discussion is more about controls and lack of options on consoles than it is balancing.
If anyone could plug in a KB/M and have it just work, console players would have been able to finish the raid by now. Same may also be true if gyro aiming was optional.
That honestly makes me question why they even bothered with including gyro controls on the DS4 as it doesn't seem to be used for any game and it just drives up the cost of manufacturing the controller. Surely it wasn't just for keyboard typing and so PC users can use it
I prefer the controller to a mouse - even in games like Division. Obviously, the pro people will play with a mouse, but I simply enjoy controllers more. Division 2 is great to play with one. It's just a matter of preference.
Everyone is undergeared and that's harder to overcome when you don't have the advantage of 60 FPS and KB+M. That's basically all there is too it, console players will be fine in a couple weeks. My squad usually took a few weeks to beat a Destiny raid because of the raid being higher level than the gear available.
People will also respec their gear for the raid, come up with different strats, and have better success.
People will also respec their gear for the raid, come up with different strats, and have better success.
WoW raids have different difficulty levels. The lowest level does not take months
I suggested this in the other thread about matchmaking in TD2, and for some reason there were some posters who shouted it down and thought it's a bad idea
To me raids in any MMO should have different difficulty levels. I mean TD2's "dungeons" (missions & strongholds) already have different difficulty levels
My first thought. I'm pretty sure the last big Destiny 2 raid which came out last September wasn't heated on console for at least a few days after PC.
Yes. But only after you beat an encounter. And you have to be the party leader next time you load in. Wherever the party leader is, that's where everyone else will load in.
AV didn't require precision aiming. If AV was beat repeatedly on PC PS2 linkshells would be able to get their strategy and do it on console. And I know, people locked up AV without knowing how they did it, we did it twice and were the first on our server to ever beat it. It just seemed like a glitch and we were taking advantage. We never found out how until SE or something told everyone much much later.
yeah WoW came out in 2004. times change in the video game industryEarlier raids didn't had different difficulty levels, though.
Blizzard devs said when they introduced difficulty levels to raids -- that it does not make any sense from a developer standpoint, to spend so many work hours and crunch to make all the big raid content, but only 5% (this number is paraphrased, obviously it was very low number) of its playerbase would experience it. they decided to want as many players as possible to be able to experience the game they spend so much time working on
this makes 100% perfect sense to me. if I was a dev with crazy work hours, why the fuck would you waste all that time when most of your players don't even end up seeing it?
that's not exactly a good use of resources from a business standpoint
do any of you have a response to this? I mean so many ERA posters seem to be against crunch and wasting developers' work hours
Earlier raids didn't had different difficulty levels, though.
The difficulty levels are not the reason for that. No one is basing the World first on who clears normal, the race is entirely centered on the Mythic difficulty. The reason times are so much shorter these days has more to do with how both "raid culture" and the design of the game have evolved. If a boss lives more than a week these days its likely because Blizzard screwed up and overtuned the fight.
The raid at the moment seems equivilant of a Mythic level raid in WoW currently.
You have console players hooting and hollering over killing just the first boss
It needs to be dialed back.
You have console players hooting and hollering over killing just the first boss
It needs to be dialed back.
It's fine to have a story version but it would never be considered the actual raid and wouldn't drop the same rewards. So, it's neither here nor there. People would still want to do the actual raid.
But that's still poor balancing on the respective platforms, isn't it? You shouldn't be required to play with kb/m just to complete content. That's why things like aim assist exist, that's why you balance stuff like gun recoil around the limitations of any input device. kb/m is a nice thing to have on consoles and there are plenty of them which support it as an alternative control scheme but it shouldn't be mandatory to complete content.
Something that came out a whole three years after the original launch of the system and something most PS4 owners are never going to get
Yes? Sony are capable of planning ahead in their controller design so it works with their planned VR headset.
The fuck? Elitism much? What if I don't like playing with the same tools I use 8 hours a day 5 days a week during work? I just don't like the keyboard and mouse set up. It also helps I'm not into competitive shooters so I'm perfectly fine with the comfort of a modern controller.
I'm talking about the wiimote and any deviation to the 1997's dual shock here.
My point is that it's an experience solely for a small handful of PS4 owners at best and nothing else despite the fact that it'd be beneficial in a lot of other games
True. After decade of playing controller for FPS on console I recently got a Mouse adapter for console and bodying everyone
Analogue sticks for FPS in 2019 I can't anymore, it's just not meant to be.
Limits you too much. But nah mah comfy couch, yet those ones still wants to be competitive lol
Earlier raids didn't had different difficulty levels, though.
Jesus, Sunwell was only 62 days? We cleared it shortly after the first but it felt way the fuck longer than that.
I guess the 442~ M'uru reps made time stop.
I watched the raid, the world first video with 2 hours or so of footage, checked out the bosses time stamps. It didn't seem like Destiny puzzle raids where people had to figure out what to do with new mechanics (shield, sword, stuff from Destiny 1 first raids).
Consoles users really really should mess with something like steam controller on PC, it takes some getting used to, and you will want to adjust things to your liking, but like Dual Analog took a while to practice you'll want to do the same for Steam Controller. I used Saints Row 4 and jumped around collecting orbs. It was perfect as a practice arena for the touch pad and gyro.
Today I don't even want to think about gaming without Steam Controller or a better future controller. Sadly it seem like Valve is slowing down the sale of SC, maybe because Steam Machines didn't take off (on Amazon people are selling them for $80...). I've had to look into things like that Razer Tartarus v2 to give me a comfortable keyboard + mouse setup to replace Steam Controller. I just want analog for WASD at the least. I always hate hitting the 1-0 keys above the qwerty keys too.
Consoles users really really should mess with something like steam controller on PC, it takes some getting used to, and you will want to adjust things to your liking, but like Dual Analog took a while to practice you'll want to do the same for Steam Controller. I used Saints Row 4 and jumped around collecting orbs. It was perfect as a practice arena for the touch pad and gyro.
Today I don't even want to think about gaming without Steam Controller or a better future controller. Sadly it seem like Valve is slowing down the sale of SC, maybe because Steam Machines didn't take off (on Amazon people are selling them for $80...). I've had to look into things like that Razer Tartarus v2 to give me a comfortable keyboard + mouse setup to replace Steam Controller. I just want analog for WASD at the least. I always hate hitting the 1-0 keys above the qwerty keys too.
I watched Muru break 6 guilds and watched a friend of mine be stuck at Muru up until the pre-wotlk patch made it a joke. Makes me view a thread like this with complete and utter confusion.
That would be a downgrade. Contrary to popular belief, wsad is better than an analogue. Because its used together with a mouse and you use the mouse for granular adjustments. So you have that, plus the instant reaction due to the binary nature of the keyboard and having three fingers at all times on the moving input. 1-0 is a huge benefit as well and all the surounding keys.
Console players who use Mouse ruin the fun for everyone else in competitive games.
well encino man, now that you've unthawed from your icecube, you'll learn that raid design and theory has changed since then
Not memeing or joking - pre-nerf M'uru was such a grueling experience that some of our raiders had actual fucking PTSD symptoms.
We got it before the nerf, but man, it killed something inside of me. The guild was really never the same after that shit.
Well Microsoft and Sony officially license a product like this and they don't do anything about it so they're fine with it you should be too. Besides Mouse on console been on the rise for years now it's just getting more and more popular especially in Comp modes the high ranks are mostly Mouse users. If you think this is unfair then you should look up scripts that can be also used on controller those I think are not officially allowed but can do many things that can give you an unfair advantage
Tbh best thing Sony and Microsoft can do is pushing official M+K support and much more so next gen
Lol this again and you know that's bs, it's simply input devices that differentiates. Mouse should be the standard for aiming, aiming with a tiny nub is not meant to be, too limiting.