Kotaku: Assassin's Creed Odyssey Director Says 'We Missed The Mark' With Controversial DLC

[Shark]

Feels like the thread should be merged since there is the same discussion happening in two places.

Straight up worst dialogue 'choice' I've ever experienced in a game.

 

[Alvis]

Nintendo never promised me to choice whatever i want to do about gender/relationship in a mario game.
And as for my avatar; it's a picture i take during a SMO game and it made me laugh.

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So if they promise choice and eventually mess up (and apologise), they are far right

If they never offer any choice at all, it's fine

You are aware this both diminishes the real issues and makes companies not wanna bother right?

 

[ListeningGarden]

I can't really care about the "utilitarian" route excuse, as it sounds to me like they planned this to some degree from the outset and didn't consider at all what a horrible message this sends and how awful it makes their LGBTQA players feel. If they are truly apologetic, they can patch the DLC to produce an alternate route/possibility for players who have a gay, lesbian or asexual character in play. And no, I don't care about what animus excuse you could possibly throw at me. They've already written themselves out of plenty of Animus related problems, surely they can do so here.

 

[mael]

No it's a big problem. It's like saying "you can't be normal if you don't have a baby". It's awful.

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Is that somehow worse than saying "you can't love someone your own gender" in a game that is about avatar representations?

 

[replicantUK]

Nyou don't need to support this bloodline alt-right ubi stuff

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/rolleyes x over 9000

You need to get a grip and stop throwing idiotic accusations around like confetti.

 

[Deleted member 1003]

Question:
How can you not design new content of a game with lasting character choices and then not include them?
I mean, they knew what game they were working on, right?

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Mass Effect 3?

 

[Frozenprince]

You're either making an RPG or you're not. If you want these games to be linear then you can't give them an entire game where you have agency and choice over themselves and their sexuality then pigeonhole them into something.

That's the antithesis of what an RPG is. That's why people were so pissed off at ME3's ending.

 

[Lackless]

Feels like the thread should be merged since there is the same discussion happening in two places.

Straight up worst dialogue 'choice' I've ever experienced in a game.

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At least they're straight-up about it. There are numerous parts in Telltale where they act like you're making two difference decisions only to find out they both lead to the same place.

 

[Kylo Rey]

So if they promise choice and eventually mess up (and apologise), they are far right

If they never offer any choice at all, it's fine

You are aware this both diminishes the real issues and makes companies not wanna bother right?

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That's why since they began saying "AC Odyssey will let you choose gender/relationship" , they CAN'T go back on this game, his dlc's and all next AC Games .
I don't want to hear about a next AC game in Roma playing Aya only. If i want to play as Bayek with homosexual relationship, i should have the right to do so in the next game.
They respect every community or they don't. That's it.

 

[Albatross]

Please ignore Kylo Rey. They have been trolling for a while in the other thread too. First they accused everyone of saying that Ubisoft is alt-right and now they're parodying their own fantasy.

 

[Alvis]

That's why since they began saying "AC Odyssey will let you choose gender/relationship" , they CAN'T go back on this game, his dlc's and all next AC Games .
I don't want to hear about a next AC game in Roma playing Aya only. If i want to play as Bayek with homosexual relationship, i should have the right to do so in the next game.
They respect every community or they don't. That's it.

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You are still not adressing how what they did is worse that if they never gave any choice at all

I'm not saying their mess up is okay, but it's completely ridiculous to call them far right over this lol

 

[Overture]

What is this thread...


Props on them for understanding how it could be problematic and saying so.

 

[Kylo Rey]

Please ignore Kylo Rey. He has been trolling for a while in the other thread too. First they accused everyone of saying that Ubisoft is alt-right and now they're parodying their own fantasy.

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Except that i'm not trolling.
I didn't thought they would come up with that bloodline excuse. That's why i'm angry.

 

[Freezasaurus]

I understand it's a storyline thing, and I probably wouldn't have minded so much if they let you at least choose a character that would become the baby daddy. Anyone but that goober.

 

[replicantUK]

That's why since they began saying "AC Odyssey will let you choose gender/relationship" , they CAN'T go back on this game, his dlc's and all next AC Games .
I don't want to hear about a next AC game in Roma playing Aya only. If i want to play as Bayek with homosexual relationship, i should have the right to do so in the next game.
They respect every community or they don't. That's it.

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The "right to do so". Feeling a bit entitled? You have no right to do anything. The developers create the game to their vision. Not to your tick box list of relationship options.

 

[Manu]

Except that i'm not trolling.
I didn't thought they would come up with that bloodline excuse. That's why i'm angry.

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Yeah except your posts in this thread directly contradict your posts on the previous one, so either you're trolling or having a meltdown of some sort.

 

[Kylo Rey]

You are still not adressing how what they did is worse that if they never gave any choice at all
I'm not saying their mess up is okay, but it's completely ridiculous to call them far right over this lol

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Before they have the right to do whatever they want. Writers can write the story he/she wants to.
But since Odyssey let players the choice about big stuff, they can't go back now.
If tthey didn't wanted that backlash about that DLC , they didn't had to gave us some choices before and creating marketing around this.
Now they have to stick about this for this game and the next and the next...I want freedom now in future AC RPG.

 

[Goose Se7en]

The folks over at Ubi Montreal screwed up but kinda. They had a narrative they wanted to tell and that's fine but when you give players the agency to choose the character they want to role play as and let them do whatever they want only to cripple those choices they may or may not have made because of a forced narrative that's just bad design.

Moreover the fact that they hyped this aspect up and waved the inclusivity flag just makes the entire situation that much worst. To me this isn't a big deal at all and them apologizing is making a lot of hay out of nothing. But I know why they apologized, especially in this day and age.

 

[devSin]

That's the antithesis of what an RPG is. That's why people were so pissed off at ME3's ending.

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Nah, ME3's ending has a host of problems, but the illusion of choice was maintained. People wouldn't have had a problem if anything you did actually mattered (and if it didn't end up as some besotted love letter to eugenics).

This would be like if ME3 forced you to romance Liara out of nowhere.

 

[Alvis]

You mean the company that forbade gay relationships in its relationship game?

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Yes, I mean that company. If this mess up makes Ubisoft far right, then the Tomodachi mess up makes Nintendo an army formed by 300 clones of hitler

 

[Parthenios]

I haven't played an Assassin's Creed in a long time, so maybe this has changed, but wouldn't you know that your character had a baby (at some point) simply by being able to play their descendant in the Animus? Or do they not have modern sections anymore?

 

[replicantUK]

Yeah except your posts in this thread directly contradict your posts on the previous one, so either you're trolling or having a meltdown of some sort.

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meltdown is the safest bet.

 

[Deleted member 3208]

Feels like the thread should be merged since there is the same discussion happening in two places.

Straight up worst dialogue 'choice' I've ever experienced in a game.

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That's not Kassandra's child. Nah. That's a baby she found somewhere and is giving it away to that dude so he can have a family. My Kass, despite being bi, would never settle down with anyone.

 

[Knight613]

I haven't played an Assassin's Creed in a long time, so maybe this has changed, but wouldn't you know that your character had a baby (at some point) simply by being able to play their descendant in the Animus? Or do they not have modern sections anymore?

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This game literally got to ancient Greece by finding an artifact that belonged to the person you play as.

 

[Icemonk191]

Was this really that big of a deal? Apologizing seems unnecessary

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Forcing gay characters to be straight isn't "that big of a deal"? You want to come back, apologize and try that again or are you just gonna leave this bullshit post as is?

 

[Eumi]

For those of you who weren't in the other thread, Kylo Rey has been very active in it for a while, basically shifting their opinions and contradicting themselves regularly and never actually responding to anyone's points. They initially began by defending this action and claiming they didn't understand why people were complaining, and have now seemingly 180'd into parodying those same people.

They posted this not 12 hours earlier.

And this is where i do not stand.
I can understand truly you feel hurt.
But i can't imagine the writer to be a 4chan or a trump-guy secretly plotting for this to hurt the LG community.

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Don't let their current hyperbole distract you from the fact that this is still an issue. Don't let the conversation be shifted to how Ubisoft aren't alt-right (which they aren't, obviously), because that discussion is meaningless and will just override the actual important discussion that is needed here.

I absolutely hate call out posts like this whenever I see them, but I think it's important that this thread isn't derailed.

 

[Kylo Rey]

Yeah except your posts in this thread directly contradict your posts on the previous one, so either you're trolling or having a meltdown of some sort.

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At the beginning of the other topic, i thought Kass would have a baby since animus + lore reasons.
An Assassin's Creed fan on the board explain to me that the story don't require her to have a baby at some point in her life.
That's why i change my mind about this. And that's why i'm now angry after those apologies.

The only way to fix this is to
*Make us the choice to have or not a relationship with BOTH Darius son/daughter.

 

[Alvis]

Before they have the right to do whatever they want. Writers can write the story he/she wants to.
But since Odyssey let players the choice about big stuff, they can't go back now.
If tthey didn't wanted that backlash about that DLC , they didn't had to gave us some choices before and creating marketing around this.
Now they have to stick about this for this game and the next and the next...I want freedom now in future AC RPG.

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Okay, so they understandably created expectations that were destroyed in this DLC. It sucks, it's bad, they shouldn't have done it, it's a complete mess.

...how does this make them "far right" tho

For context, I have not started Odyssey yet (currently finishing Origins DLCs), but when I will I plan to go with Kassandra and probably make her a lesbian. While I'm not LGTB myself I totally support LGTB representation on videogames, I love seeing it and it sucks when it's not present. But calling a company who invested a shitload of resources in making LGTB representation a thing in this huge-ass AAA videogame "far right" because of one screw up is the stupidest thing I have read all day.

 

[Rotobit]

if they really wanted the main character to have descendants there were probably better ways to go about it. Just stick an ancient Isu IVF clinic in Athens, it wouldn't be that outlandish considering they mastered giant floating holograms that work underwater after thousands of years of dormancy.

I don't think this whole mess is irredeemable, but it's very baffling for the game that was positioned as "player choice" driven. Makes me wonder if that was decided late in development, after the plot outline was already structured. Still, it's easy enough to change a few sentences, or even leave it up to vague "maaaybe it happened" suggestions.

 

[Freezasaurus]

That's not Kassandra's child. Nah. That's a baby she found somewhere and is giving it away to that dude so he can have a family. My Kass, despite being bi, would never settle down with anyone.

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Yes, the baby was being raised by wolves in one of those fifty wolf dens Kassandra cleaned out. Wolves don't know how to raise a baby.

 

[Albatross]

I haven't played an Assassin's Creed in a long time, so maybe this has changed, but wouldn't you know that your character had a baby (at some point) simply by being able to play their descendant in the Animus? Or do they not have modern sections anymore?

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Things have changed. The new Animus doesn't need descendants, just DNA of the original person.

 

[Nooblet]

Nvm

 

[catboy]

In a universe full of mcguffins and weird artifacts why did they not just have that character find some other way of preserving their dna? Heck, an ancient sperm / egg freezer would've been ridiculous but not intruded on the character's self determination / sexuality if they were determined to have a child somehow

 

[Kylo Rey]

For those of you who weren't in the other thread, Kylo Rey has been very active in it for a while, basically shifting their opinions and contradicting themselves regularly and never actually responding to anyone's points. They initially began by defending this action and claiming they didn't understand why people were complaining, and have now seemingly 180'd into parodying those same people.

They posted this not 12 hours earlier.



Don't let their current hyperbole distract you from the fact that this is still an issue. Don't let the conversation be shifted to how Ubisoft aren't alt-right (which they aren't, obviously), because that discussion is meaningless and will just override the actual important discussion that is needed here.

I absolutely hate call out posts like this whenever I see them, but I think it's important that this thread isn't derailed.

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Because 12 hours ago i didn"t knew that they made that decision because "bloodline"!! That's what Dumont is saying! They made that choice because they wanted Kass to have a child!
But as Eoin explain to me, it's not a mandatory for her, in a lore point of view.

So they are doing in this DLC some weird "you need to have a child! Feel the burden of your bloodline" stuff. And this is right into politics...

 

[Dr. Caroll]

I haven't played an Assassin's Creed in a long time, so maybe this has changed, but wouldn't you know that your character had a baby (at some point) simply by being able to play their descendant in the Animus? Or do they not have modern sections anymore?

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The new animus works differently. Only needs a DNA sample of the subject. The significance of having a child is that your character is a hybrid of human and Isu. As was your father. As will your child be. The character feels obliged to have a child for this purpose regardless of romantic feelings.

Who the child turns out to be is unknown at this point.

 

[Batatina]

Apologise by guaranteeing that next installments will keep the fluid sexuality introduced by Odyssey. I won't play another AC that doesn't include it, and will play any that does. It's that important to me.

 

[ultima786]

In this case I genuinely feel as if they shouldn't have apologized. Even games with choices have some made for you there isn't anything to apologize for.

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This. They weren't being harmful. Plus, ancestory and lineage is a function of heterosexual relationships. Period. That was the point.

 

[DOBERMAN INC]

Ubisoft are now alt-right? Damn.

Some people really need to get fresh air and human contact every now and again.

 

[ListeningGarden]

In this case I genuinely feel as if they shouldn't have apologized. Even games with choices have some made for you there isn't anything to apologize for.

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You should probably read the criticisms of why this was a terrible decision and horrible for LGBTQA players, since you clearly haven't considered any of that before making this post.

 

[Kylo Rey]

Apologise by guaranteeing that next installments will keep the fluid sexuality introduced by Odyssey. I won't play another AC that doesn't include it, and will play any that does. It's that important to me.

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That's what i'm talking about.
Gender/relationship choice in any AC games now. And DLC's that won't destroy those choices.

 

[Icemonk191]

This. They weren't being harmful. Plus, ancestory and lineage is a function of heterosexual relationships. Period. That was the point.

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Explain to me how forcing gay characters to be straight is not harmful. I'm waiting.

 

[Albatross]

It has already been noted in the other thread, but this Jonathan Dumont who wrote this "apology", is the same person who said this just few months ago:

"Since the story is choice-driven, we never force players in romantic situations they might not be comfortable with," Dumont says. "Players decide if they want to engage with characters romantically. I think this allows everybody to build the relationships they want, which I feel respects everybody's roleplay style and desires."

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This guy is set to become the next Peter Molineux.

 

[rras1994]

Ubisoft are now alt-right? Damn.

Some people really need to get fresh air and human contact every now and again.

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He's trolling, he was saying the opposite in the other thread about how he didn't think there was a problem of making a lesbian Kass have sex with a dude for a baby. Also called kept saying others were saying that Ubisoft was alt right and that was too far, when people weren't

 

[Overture]

He's trolling, he was saying the opposite in the other thread about how he didn't think there was a problem of making a lesbian Kass have sex with a dude for a baby. Also called kept saying others were saying that Ubisoft was alt right and that was too far, when people weren't

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What I take from this is that more people were calling Ubisoft alt right for this. What? Come the fuck on.

 

[Rotobit]

for what it's worth, the last time we saw an outcry like this (the Unity female character stuff), Ubisoft went above and beyond to fix it in future games, resulting in great characters like Evie and Kassandra.

I wouldn't be surprised if the next AC game (assuming it's late 2020) will have much more fleshed out, meaningful relationships of all stripes.

It doesn't make up for the mistakes here at all but if everyone keeps raising their issues then, hopefully, we'll get some awesome representation in the future.

 

[sabrina]

for what it's worth, the last time we saw an outcry like this (the Unity female character stuff), Ubisoft went above and beyond to fix it in future games, resulting in great characters like Evie and Kassandra.

I wouldn't be surprised if the next AC game (assuming it's late 2020) will have much more fleshed out, meaningful relationships of all stripes.

It doesn't make up for the mistakes here at all but if everyone keeps raising their issues then, hopefully, we'll get some awesome representation in the future.

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Yeah I think they try to learn their lessons from events like this. But damn if it doesn't sting right now.

 

[Icemonk191]

What I take from this is that more people were calling Ubisoft alt right for this. What? Come the fuck on.

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That's literally not what that post said. You for real?

 

[Deleted member 135]

Assassin's Creed, a world full of magical macguffins that can do whatever the plot requires yet no one thought to use one of those macguffins to make an OldGodBaby to carry on the bloodline instead of forcing childbearing on Kassandra.

 

[rras1994]

What I take from this is that more people were calling Ubisoft alt right for this. What? Come the fuck on.

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They weren't, there was maybe one person that was angry at the person that wrote the dlc, but no one was accusing Ubisoft of being alt right, Kylo Ren kept bringing it up to deflect from criticism that he kept defending the dlc. That's what makes his actions so weird now in this thread.

 

[Kylo Rey]

He's trolling, he was saying the opposite in the other thread about how he didn't think there was a problem of making a lesbian Kass have sex with a dude for a baby. Also called kept saying others were saying that Ubisoft was alt right and that was too far, when people weren't

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I'm not trolling -_- but i guess you won't believe me.
I'm just shocked about that bloodline stuff in those apologies, since one Era member told me she don't need to have a baby in the story.
It's like she's forced to have a baby, i don't like that.