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Kaltz

Member
Mar 19, 2019
24
It's also ok to not have a easy mode. Some devs want to just make a game thats challenging. Not every game has to appeal to everyone or be easily accessible. Though a lot of AAA companies do it to make sure they make a good profit off it.

I also personally think that saying every game should have one are just as entitled as the people who are against the idea of a easy mode. Some games may not be fitted for both. It may require some rework to make it feel fun. I think just decreasing or increasing the amount of damage enemies do or HP you lose from them isn't always enough for some games if they want different difficulty modes.
 

GhostTrick

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,308
I think people are mixing accessibility and difficulty here. Accessibility should be fixed with inputs.
 
Oct 25, 2017
6,890
An "easy" version of a Souls game is not a Souls game - it is something else altogether and people need to accept this (as Miyazaki has stated many times overcoming challenge is intrinsic to these games).

Pretty much every developer who has included an "easy mode" in their game is bound to say that this doesn't compromise the creative vision of their game - to suggest otherwise is for the developer to acknowledge that they have accepted creative compromise (which is nothing any developer wants to admit).

This "accessibility" argument around disabled games is completely disingenuous and is being used as a stick to beat FROM Software with. There are literally hundreds of games published every year that don't offer decent accessibility options (and high amongst the offenders is Nintendo in this).

What's next - are we going to tear down every rogue-like ever made because the whole gameplay model is based on being rock hard but achievable only after much practice? No more bullet-hell shmups? I can and never will accept a creator being criticised for trying to realise their vision.
 

giraffereyn

Banned
Jan 20, 2019
327
An "easy" version of a Souls game is not a Souls game - it is something else altogether and people need to accept this (as Miyazaki has stated many times overcoming challenge is intrinsic to these games).

Pretty much every developer who has included an "easy mode" in their game is bound to say that this doesn't compromise the creative vision of their game - to suggest otherwise is for the developer to acknowledge that they have accepted creative compromise (which is nothing any developer wants to admit).

This "accessibility" argument around disabled games is completely disingenuous and is being used as a stick to beat FROM Software with. There are literally hundreds of games published every year that don't offer decent accessibility options (and high amongst the offenders is Nintendo in this).

What's next - are we going to tear down every rogue-like ever made because the whole gameplay model is based on being rock hard but achievable only after much practice? No more bullet-hell shmups? I can and never will accept a creator being criticised for trying to realise their vision.
No one is asking anyone to change shit. We're just asking for options to make games beatable (or even just playable!) for those that can't or because they have great difficulty. You are making our argument for us by pointing out that most developers and publishers don't pay any attention to people that would appreciate accessibility options.

Your opinion is super inflammatory. A souls game with god mode in the option screen is still a Souls game ya dip. Yes that means that someone is not experiencing the game the way it was intended but someone who deals with colorblindness already has a wildly different experience from you.
 

Bulebule

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,805
Wow! Nice try buddy. I was very careful to not assume that someone can't rise above their own potential difficulties, but keep trying buddy. Point out a single thing I typed that says otherwise or that I am assuming that anyone disabled is lesser than anyone else.

You already did it in your posts about roadblocks and that we have all different experience than able-bodied ones. Rioting for "god mode" or "easy mode" practically confirms that you assume that we cannot adapt or react to what "able-bodied" see as normal. However I have learned in this life to adapt to different things from multiple viewpoints to compensate on my other weaknesses. Same applies to gaming, because in the end developers have a different views what a good design means to them and they are not necessarily wrong. You can't expect everything to be in the same mold because not everything is served in the silver platter. There are literally people in wheelcair with more than twice upper body strength than many others with no disabilities who work out in a gym.

Don't use disabilities as a political weapon when the main reason people demand to get something easier is that THEY GIVE UP TOO EASILY using different excuses instead of toughening up. It's all right to admit that, because I have done that too in the past.
 

giraffereyn

Banned
Jan 20, 2019
327
I think people are mixing accessibility and difficulty here. Accessibility should be fixed with inputs.
Nope. What people are mixing up is Accessibility and Accessible. We don't want games to be easy we want games to allow anyone to play it. ANYONE. Maybe its a different experience, but no one has the same experience from anyone else anyway.

You have no clue how I like to play Dark Souls. I'm awesome at these games and personally, if you don't completely learn, parry, crush the entire move set of the enemy in front of you, then you aren't playing Souls correctly.
 

RoninChaos

Member
Oct 26, 2017
8,338
Not necessarily ruin, but it can make a potentially great game blander. The first three difficulty levels on DMC are so breezy, and you have to play the game at least twice to get to the actual challenge. THAT kinda sucks (at least for players who want that challenge) and harms the overall quality of the game.

I think games that are about having high difficulty there should be something like a Ninja Dog mode from Ninja Gaiden or the Chicken Hat from MGSV. You can have the easy mode if you want, but you also should be required to own the disgrace of not playing the game as intended.
The disgrace? It's a fucking game, man.
 

giraffereyn

Banned
Jan 20, 2019
327
You already did it in your posts about roadblocks and that we have all different experience than able-bodied ones. Rioting for "god mode" or "easy mode" practically confirms that you assume that we cannot adapt or react to what "able-bodied" see as normal. However I have learned in this life to adapt to different things from multiple viewpoints to compensate on my other weaknesses. Same applies to gaming, because in the end developers have a different views what a good design means to them and they are not necessarily wrong. You can't expect everything to be in the same mold because not everything is served in the silver platter. There are literally people in wheelcair with more than twice upper body strength than many others with no disabilities who work out in a gym.

Don't use disabilities as a political weapon when the main reason people demand to get something easier is that THEY GIVE UP TOO EASILY using different excuses instead of toughening up. It's all right to admit that, because I have done that too in the past.
Wrong again buddy. How do you bridge this shit opinion from me asking for god mode or easy mode? Sorry I can't give the answer to every disability or difficulty. You are engaging with the Nirvana fallacy and are asking me to solve every problem that I can't conceive of. The point of my advocacy is to draw attention to gamers with disabilities, and developers can help with these problems in a variety of ways and many of which I can't conceive off of the top of my fucking head.

Don't worry though a lot of people have already thought of fantastic solutions that can suit a variety of games and players alike http://gameaccessibilityguidelines.com/

Personally I get massively triggered by people who use their disability (or race and gender) to shut down progressive solutions or discussions about helping those in need. Get out of here with that shit.
 

Kaguya

Member
Jun 19, 2018
6,408
Sounds like they are still getting the help just from somewhere else. I am bad at aiming in most FPS and Third-person shooters so I really appreciate the lock-on aim in Uncharted or the auto aim in almost every console FPS. Some of these road blocks just can't be overcome and for these situations a toggle in the menu can help.

People who are already good at something don't need to use easy modes, or cheats to get through a game, they have a ton of options and help already to get through a majority of modern games. These features are just there for those that need it. Plus I'm damn good at a lot of games and wish there were more cheats or easy modes so I can sight-see in my favorites series.
Accessibility modes and features tend to help out typical gamers out more often than not.

What's you opinion of the ping system in APEX: Legends?
It's not against people getting help, getting that help is part of the game by design. A toggle system in a case like this is more skipping parts of the game than it is offering help for those who need the lower difficulties, as that lower difficulty is already available in the game. So a difficulty toggle isn't helping anyone who actually need the already available lower difficulty, it's just helping people who "don't have time" to go through what the game ask of them to get the lower difficulty.

Haven't played much of Apex, two games only actually... Other than the ping system being good enough so that voice chat isn't a requirement, how does it relate to this topic?
 

Sanka

Banned
Feb 17, 2019
5,778
At the end of the day in what way would any of you be inconvenienced should there be an easy mode? It's really just a selfish desire for everyone to have the same experience and to me that is just immature.
 

Eidan

Avenger
Oct 30, 2017
8,565
Nope. What people are mixing up is Accessibility and Accessible. We don't want games to be easy we want games to allow anyone to play it. ANYONE. Maybe its a different experience, but no one has the same experience from anyone else anyway.

You have no clue how I like to play Dark Souls. I'm awesome at these games and personally, if you don't completely learn, parry, crush the entire move set of the enemy in front of you, then you aren't playing Souls correctly.
Hm, then I guess I'm not wholly onboard with the accessible crowd then. I'm all for options in terms of making sure certain inputs are easier for people with disabilities, but I have no problem with a game billed as challenging being such. The challenge is why I tried Dark Souls. It's why I tried Super Meat Boy. Lack of challenge is why I tend to skip games that seem very easy. And I don't think those easy games should have a more difficult mode added, I just don't think they're for me and I move on.
 

PortableSam

Banned
Jan 29, 2019
18
No one is asking anyone to change shit. We're just asking for options to make games beatable (or even just playable!) for those that can't or because they have great difficulty. You are making our argument for us by pointing out that most developers and publishers don't pay any attention to people that would appreciate accessibility options.

Your opinion is super inflammatory. A souls game with god mode in the option screen is still a Souls game ya dip. Yes that means that someone is not experiencing the game the way it was intended but someone who deals with colorblindness already has a wildly different experience from you.

I actually have colour blindness and it is annoying when developers don't recognise this but accessibility options (like changing colourways) are completely different to changing gameplay design and functionality as you surely recognise.

"Super inflammatory" is a bit much when you're the one calling me a "dip" also and obviously a super hard mode would do nothing to change the creative vision of a Souls game given that it is based on difficulty anyway so I presume this comment is tongue in cheek.

What I am saying is if there is an issue with actually physically playing the game then this is common across the whole industry and not every game is going to be playable by every person until games are powered by telepathic inputs so its totally unfair to criticise Souls/Sekiro for this.

What I object to is people "Trojan horsing" the idea that FROM Software must include an easy mode under the banner of accessibility for disabled gamers when this is a totally strawman argument that has evolved out of the notion that games need to be have options so all gamers can play all games (skilled/unskilled, time poor or otherwise) which has been clearly debunked with good reason. This is gamer/consumer entitlement at its worst.
 

giraffereyn

Banned
Jan 20, 2019
327
It's not against people getting help, getting that help is part of the game by design. A toggle system in a case like this is more skipping parts of the game than it is offering help for those who need the lower difficulties, as that lower difficulty is already available in the game. So a difficulty toggle isn't helping anyone who actually need the already available lower difficulty, it's just helping people who "don't have time" to go through what the game ask of them to get the lower difficulty.

Haven't played much of Apex, two games only actually... Other than the ping system being good enough so that voice chat isn't a requirement, how does it relate to this topic?
The ping system for all intents and purposes should ruin an FPS. Its a universal mechanic that lets you ping to other players any piece or armor, ammo, weapoin, person, area, or menu icon with just a few button presses. If I were to use the arguments in this thread then the Ping system should wreck this game and is only a tool to appeal to gamers with no time or (or access!) to voice coms and more direct cooperation with teammates.

I can hear them now! "This ping shit ruins the balance by helping people who suck at looting. Fuck that Shooters are about acquiring the head shot after crawling through the mud and finally finding that purple scope and aiming at them through a gap in the bushes!"

Yet its an incredible feature that only manages to make the game more intense while also helping people with a bevy of problems like the disabled and non-neurotypical, the socially anxious or even as simple as not owning a headset.

The feature passes as regular gameplay so well you would never know that it was part of the development process, much like any other developer that considers the input of non-typical gamers. They are considered and included from the ground up and no one is the wiser.
 
Oct 25, 2017
6,890
At the end of the day in what way would any of you be inconvenienced should there be an easy mode? It's really just a selfish desire for everyone to have the same experience and to me that is just immature.
I find it immature that people can't realise that not every game made is for you. If you don't like it in some aspects or can't adjust to the difficulty, just move on. Stop trying to make developers change what they envisioned their games to be.
 

Alexhex

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,881
Canada
I find it immature that people can't realise that not every game made is for you. If you don't like it in some aspects or can't adjust to the difficulty, just move on. Stop trying to make developers change what they envisioned their games to be.
Jesus with this argument. No one is forcing anyone else to do anything. It's giving developers suggestions and saying "hey this'd be nice." It's about trying to convice folks that'd it'd be a good idea if they added these options of their own volition
 

Bulebule

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,805
Wrong again buddy. How do you bridge this shit opinion from me asking for god mode or easy mode? Sorry I can't give the answer to every disability or difficulty. You are engaging with the Nirvana fallacy and are asking me to solve every problem that I can't conceive of. The point of my advocacy is to draw attention to gamers with disabilities, and developers can help with these problems in a variety of ways and many of which I can't conceive off of the top of my fucking head.

Don't worry though a lot of people have already thought of fantastic solutions that can suit a variety of games and players alike http://gameaccessibilityguidelines.com/

Personally I get massively triggered by people who use their disability (or race and gender) to shut down progressive solutions or discussions about helping those in need. Get out of here with that shit.

A) Want to know a real answer? People created a problem that doesn't need a solution in the first place. Let everyone have same conditions and see who can toughen it up. If someone gives up midway, that is because of player stumbled to a roadblock (that is once again, not same for everyone else) but it is up to player to see if he can get past it or not. It is not anyone else's responsibility. Disabled people want a possibility of trying same things than able-bodied people but you want to them to be compromised instead of encouraging them to try normally. Who cares if they are slower or do things more slowly, as long as they might approach the same goal? Wouldn't that be much more satisfying?

B) I don't need them, because I can play games with a wide range of difficulty because I am not as impatient as many others. If I can't beat something, that's on me and I have to accept defeat. Call it elitism if you want but patience is also a skill that is very useful outside gaming too. Those who "cannot be patient" due to mental disability may find other ways to compensate. Kindly no thank you, I don't need any accessibility options. I can find out the way myself.

C) Personally, you don't give two shits about disabilities (I already saw it miles ago, but that last pargraph gave the final proof) and you are one of many who just want to sugarcoat your own shortcomings by giving fault to others. Also, you have less than zero influence in what can I say or do or where I go unless you are at least a moderator.

Thanks for your time, BUDDY.
 

giraffereyn

Banned
Jan 20, 2019
327
I actually have colour blindness and it is annoying when developers don't recognise this but accessibility options (like changing colourways) are completely different to changing gameplay design and functionality as you surely recognise.

"Super inflammatory" is a bit much when you're the one calling me a "dip" also and obviously a super hard mode would do nothing to change the creative vision of a Souls game given that it is based on difficulty anyway so I presume this comment is tongue in cheek.

What I am saying is if there is an issue with actually physically playing the game then this is common across the whole industry and not every game is going to be playable by every person until games are powered by telepathic inputs so its totally unfair to criticise Souls/Sekiro for this.

What I object to is people "Trojan horsing" the idea that FROM Software must include an easy mode under the banner of accessibility for disabled gamers when this is a totally strawman argument that has evolved out of the notion that games need to be have options so all gamers can play all games (skilled/unskilled, time poor or otherwise) which has been clearly debunked with good reason. This is gamer/consumer entitlement at its worst.
You are the one asking me to deal with an industry that is largely negligent of my or others need for accessibility options and backing that up by saying that it's because no one does it, so no one should. This is inflammatory speech.

You are not addressing my arguments and are side-stepping the color blindness example. People experience every game different from everyone else, so it's pointless to push the argument that anything added like an easy mode would ruin any experience at all. Some people play games muted so they are missing out on audio cues and the music. Others are visually impaired so they are potentially missing out on text only dialogue and might have difficulty discerning enemy tells.

I, and a lot of us in this thread argue for the disabled or non-neurotypical because its the simplest version of this discussion. If we talk about helping those of us on the fringes, then we end up helping even those that have easier time managing their foibles, such as having little time, or being lazy, or someone who only likes walking around in Old Yarnham.

Personally if you aren't arguing for the disabled (and others like them), you are wasting everyones time with the weaker argument. No one cares about the person who already doesn't like Sekiro and would only play it if it was a different game.

Remember, people asking for an easy mode are already fans of the series.
 
Oct 25, 2017
21,452
Sweden
At the end of the day in what way would any of you be inconvenienced should there be an easy mode? It's really just a selfish desire for everyone to have the same experience and to me that is just immature.
one thing: for the souls games (i.e. not sekiro) the presence of an easy/god mode would decrease the amount of people using the online features to get by, which would make the online community smaller and decrease the enjoyment of those of its playerbase who enjoy engaging with the online features
 
Oct 25, 2017
6,890
Jesus with this argument. No one is forcing anyone else to do anything. It's giving developers suggestions and saying "hey this'd be nice." It's about trying to convice folks that'd it'd be a good idea if they added these options of their own volition
But that is what these (numerous) threads have been basically doing over the past few days - to get From Software (and other developers) to put difficulty options into their games. It's been a few years now since Demon's Souls, and Fromsoft have stuck to their philosophy so far. They seem fine with that decision, and sales wise, seem happy with that too.

Even Miyazaki has commented on the difficulty matter itself, and here we are today.
 

Sanka

Banned
Feb 17, 2019
5,778
one thing: for the souls games (i.e. not sekiro) the presence of an easy/god mode would decrease the amount of people using the online features to get by, which would make the online community smaller and decrease the enjoyment of those of its playerbase who enjoy engaging with the online features
If people use those modes to get by then an easy mode would merely cut out the middle man.
 
Oct 25, 2017
21,452
Sweden
Personally I get massively triggered by people who use their disability (or race and gender) to shut down progressive solutions or discussions about helping those in need. Get out of here with that shit.
wow what a super progressive dude who makes use of language that belittles and makes fun of rape survivors and ptsd sufferers to describe their experience of getting some pushback in an internet discussion
 

giraffereyn

Banned
Jan 20, 2019
327
A) Want to know a real answer? People created a problem that doesn't need a solution in the first place. Let everyone have same conditions and see who can toughen it up. If someone gives up midway, that is because of player stumbled to a roadblock (that is once again, not same for everyone else) but it is up to player to see if he can get past it or not. It is not anyone else's responsibility. Disabled people want a possibility of trying same things than able-bodied people but you want to them to be compromised instead of encouraging them to try normally. Who cares if they are slower or do things more slowly, as long as they might approach the same goal? Wouldn't that be much more satisfying?

B) I don't need them, because I can play games with a wide range of difficulty because I am not as impatient as many others. If I can't beat something, that's on me and I have to accept defeat. Call it elitism if you want but patience is also a skill that is very useful outside gaming too. Those who "cannot be patient" due to mental disability may find other ways to compensate. Kindly no thank you, I don't need any accessibility options. I can find out the way myself.

C) Personally, you don't give two shits about disabilities (I already saw it miles ago, but that last pargraph gave the final proof) and you are one of many who just want to sugarcoat your own shortcomings by giving fault to others. Also, you have less than zero influence in what can I say or do or where I go unless you are at least a moderator.

Thanks for your time, BUDDY.
Haha, you are so mad. Point A is dumb as hell. This isn't a mosh pit, this is games my dude and patches, and ground up development can address the issues of its fans just fine. Would you oppose the construction of a wheel-chair accessible ramp?

I can't address point B because no one is talking about "building patience" You just invented an argument so that you can win it yourself. Good job guy.

And with C, you are assuming a lot by constantly telling me what you think I am and how unqualified I am to have this argument by wielding you disability like a weapon. I don't respect the opinion of anyone arguing against the needs of his own community.
 
Oct 28, 2017
1,951
The focus of this entire easy mode conversation appears to be centred on only a particular game and developer, Sekiro and FromSoftware.

Why aren't other games brought up frequently for a healthier comparison and discussion? A table showcasing all the possible accessibility features vs all available games would be exceptionally useful instead of monotonous points about the mechanical difficulty in Sekiro.
 

HBK

Member
Oct 30, 2017
7,977
1 / Difficulty levels != Accessibility options.
Comparing "skill" variance to disabilities makes little sense.

2 / There is no wrong way to play a game.
Yes, there are ways to play a game which are less enjoyable than others.
Like putting the controller on the table and letting the game run as an elaborate wallpaper is arguably way less fun than actually engaging with the game input/response loop.
Ans yes maybe playing Sekiro on easy mode would be less enjoyable overall. I don't see on what grounds it should be prevented though. You can already play the game in multiple "dumb" ways which most people would find boring.
You can still do it and the game isn't worse for it.

So yeah, "an easy mode can't ruin a game". The game being less interesting on easy doesn't "ruin the game" as long as you can select a difficulty level adequate for your skill level and/or desired game experience.
 

giraffereyn

Banned
Jan 20, 2019
327
wow what a super progressive dude who makes use of language that belittles and makes fun of rape survivors and ptsd sufferers to describe their experience of getting some pushback in an internet discussion
Nice, you're too dumb to address my argument! Yeah I would tell any one of these people to shut the fuck up if they were, for example, a women at an abortion clinic telling rape survivors that they are going to hell for giving up their baby.
 

Eidan

Avenger
Oct 30, 2017
8,565
The focus of this entire easy mode conversation appears to be centred on only a particular game and developer, Sekiro and FromSoftware.

Why aren't other games brought up frequently for a healthier comparison and discussion? A table showcasing all the possible accessibility features vs all available games would be exceptionally useful instead of monotonous points about the mechanical difficulty in Sekiro.
I think it's largely because From Software games are very successful critically and financially, and a lot of people who don't enjoy the challenge would like to experience the games without them. So yeah, I don't think this is about making games more accessible. It's about making this one developer's games more accessible for the FOMO crowd who get aggravated dying often.

You didn't see these think-pieces sprout up for Hollow Knight.
 

Sanka

Banned
Feb 17, 2019
5,778
I find it immature that people can't realise that not every game made is for you. If you don't like it in some aspects or can't adjust to the difficulty, just move on. Stop trying to make developers change what they envisioned their games to be.
Again, if this doesn't inconvenience you in any way why are you opposed to more people being able to play it?
 

giraffereyn

Banned
Jan 20, 2019
327
1 / Difficulty levels != Accessibility options.
Comparing "skill" variance to disabilities makes little sense.

2 / There is no wrong way to play a game.
Yes, there are ways to play a game which are less enjoyable than others.
Like putting the controller on the table and letting the game run as an elaborate wallpaper is arguably way less fun than actually engaging with the game input/response loop.
Ans yes maybe playing Sekiro on easy mode would be less enjoyable overall. I don't see on what grounds it should be prevented though. You can already play the game in multiple "dumb" ways which most people would find boring.
You can still do it and the game isn't worse for it.

So yeah, "an easy mode can't ruin a game". The game being less interesting on easy doesn't "ruin the game" as long as you can select a difficulty level adequate for your skill level and/or desired game experience.
People in here low key hate speedrunning, gameFAQs dot com, alternate resolution options, shit they are essentially arguing against, playing anything beyond the intention of the developer.
 

PortableSam

Banned
Jan 29, 2019
18
You are the one asking me to deal with an industry that is largely negligent of my or others need for accessibility options and backing that up by saying that it's because no one does it, so no one should. This is inflammatory speech.

You are not addressing my arguments and are side-stepping the color blindness example. People experience every game different from everyone else, so it's pointless to push the argument that anything added like an easy mode would ruin any experience at all. Some people play games muted so they are missing out on audio cues and the music. Others are visually impaired so they are potentially missing out on text only dialogue and might have difficulty discerning enemy tells.

I, and a lot of us in this thread argue for the disabled or non-neurotypical because its the simplest version of this discussion. If we talk about helping those of us on the fringes, then we end up helping even those that have easier time managing their foibles, such as having little time, or being lazy, or someone who only likes walking around in Old Yarnham.

Personally if you aren't arguing for the disabled (and others like them), you are wasting everyones time with the weaker argument. No one cares about the person who already doesn't like Sekiro and would only play it if it was a different game.

Remember, people asking for an easy mode are already fans of the series.

I don't know if you are being serious when you think a game designer should be criticised for not accommodating the lazy, time poor or fans of walking simulators if they don't want to?

Your argument overall is very weak and is conflating many different issues but you are hiding behind the "disability" issue and then calling people inflammatory as you believe it gives you some sort of moral high-ground - it's very transparent and unpleasant
 

Deleted member 38573

User requested account closure
Banned
Jan 17, 2018
3,902
Nope. What people are mixing up is Accessibility and Accessible. We don't want games to be easy we want games to allow anyone to play it. ANYONE. Maybe its a different experience, but no one has the same experience from anyone else anyway.

You have no clue how I like to play Dark Souls. I'm awesome at these games and personally, if you don't completely learn, parry, crush the entire move set of the enemy in front of you, then you aren't playing Souls correctly.

anyone?

really?

that's kinda impossible..
 
Oct 25, 2017
21,452
Sweden
Nice, you're too dumb to address my argument! Yeah I would tell any one of these people to shut the fuck up if they were, for example, a women at an abortion clinic telling rape survivors that they are going to hell for giving up their baby.
you're using faux progressiveness as a bludgeon to shut down the points of other posters. if you can't do so without using alt-right lingo, i'm not going to think you're arguing in good faith, and yes won't waste time responding to your posts

stop using alt-right language like "triggered" and maybe people will take you seriously when you pretend to care about people with disabilities

also, nice use of ableist language like "dumb"
 

giraffereyn

Banned
Jan 20, 2019
327
Get Over It is kind of the one example where an easy mode would ruin it because its entire point is to not be fun.
Can't they just remove the ending for activating 'easy hammer mode' or whatever? I haven't been entirely spoiled by how it ends but the game can still be played like 99% even if the intention is lost. That's the whole point of this thread, allowing for alternate experiences that aren't shared by the abled or neurotypical (which potentially helps those with simpler problems)
 
Oct 25, 2017
6,890
Again, if this doesn't inconvenience you in any way why are you opposed to more people being able to play it?
Because that is From Software's decision while making the game, and they clearly have a philosophy that they like to stand by. It doesn't seem to inconvenience them by lack of playerbase or sales, so they seem to be happy with keeping the preset difficulty.

I do not have an issue with that, and even if I did, I'd move on and play something else - not try change a developers game in a way they clearly don't want to happen.
 
Oct 29, 2017
13,470
I think it's largely because From Software games are very successful critically and financially, and a lot of people who don't enjoy the challenge would like to experience the games without them. So yeah, I don't think this is about making games more accessible. It's about making this one developer's games more accessible for the FOMO crowd who get aggravated dying often.

You didn't see these think-pieces sprout up for Hollow Knight.

Bingo! Which makes this whole entire argument even more tired, to be honest.
 

giraffereyn

Banned
Jan 20, 2019
327
you're using faux progressiveness as a bludgeon to shut down the points of other posters. if you can't do so without using alt-right lingo, i'm not going to think you're arguing in good faith, and yes won't waste time responding to your posts

stop using alt-right language like "triggered" and maybe people will take you seriously when you pretend to care about people with disabilities
You are painting me as an alt-righter because I'm advocating for non-typIcal gamers? Woof that is a wild take from the only person who thinks there is a conspiracy to ruin games under the guise of 'mah diability'

Get some air, guy.
 
Mar 19, 2019
482
I find it immature that people can't realise that not every game made is for you. If you don't like it in some aspects or can't adjust to the difficulty, just move on. Stop trying to make developers change what they envisioned their games to be.

Are we going to act like critiques are bad because they serve to compromise the vision of the developers? Reviews are an integral part of the free market system that lets producers know what the consumers want. While it would be argumentum ad populum to suggest that if more people critique a certain point of a game, that aspect of the game is inherently and objectively bad (this is not what I'm saying!), it does suggest that more people, perhaps, would be willing to come back to games by the developer should the change be implemented, which to them, financially, would be a win.

Of course they are free to stick to stricter creative integrity, which isn't necessarily better than appealing to the people who give you your money, and not change what they want to do from the get-go. But even then, it isn't grounds to outright be antagonistic of people who present criticisms. The public forum is integral to the producer, whether they choose to utilize it or not.
 

jipewithin

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,094
The focus of this entire easy mode conversation appears to be centred on only a particular game and developer, Sekiro and FromSoftware.

Why aren't other games brought up frequently for a healthier comparison and discussion? A table showcasing all the possible accessibility features vs all available games would be exceptionally useful instead of monotonous points about the mechanical difficulty in Sekiro.
Because sekiro is hot and cool right now
 
Oct 25, 2017
21,452
Sweden
User Banned (3 Days): Antagonizing and misrepresenting another member over a series of posts
You are painting me as an alt-righter because I'm advocating for non-typIcal gamers? Woof that is a wild take from the only person who thinks there is a conspiracy to ruin games under the guise of 'mah diability'

Get some air, guy.
no, but for using language like "triggered" in a way that makes light of victims of sexual abuse and sufferers of ptsd

(also i didn't even say that you're alt-right, just that you use alt-right lingo)

you seem to struggle with reading compression. maybe you need an easy mode version of era
 

Deleted member 3190

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,214
Accessibility doesn't even need to just be for people with visible disabilities. We're some of the first generations of people that will grow old with video games. I fully expect to be playing video games for the rest of my life and I'm already incapable of beating games I could when I was younger. I'd love to play some of the games I enjoy now in retirement.
 

giraffereyn

Banned
Jan 20, 2019
327
no, but for using language like "triggered" in a way that makes light of victims of sexual abuse and sufferers of ptsd

(also i didn't even say that you're alt-right, just that you use alt-right lingo)

you seem to struggle with reading compression. maybe you need an easy mode version of era
I used it to describe myself my guy, but go ahead keep up with the derail and misrepresentation of my argument by calling me alt-right.
 
Oct 25, 2017
21,452
Sweden
I used it to describe myself my guy, but go ahead keep up with the derail and misrepresentation of my argument by calling me alt-right.
yes you used language coined by survivors of rape to describe your personal experience of facing disagreement on an internet forum, thereby implying that the two are in anyway comparable

yikes

(and again, i never called you alt-right, just pointed out that you used alt-right language, which you did)
 

Hella

Member
Oct 27, 2017
23,403
one thing: for the souls games (i.e. not sekiro) the presence of an easy/god mode would decrease the amount of people using the online features to get by, which would make the online community smaller and decrease the enjoyment of those of its playerbase who enjoy engaging with the online features
souls games' online participation has always been opt-in, splitting the playerbase. their games very explicitly makes players give consent before being able to summon or be invaded (e.g., in dark souls, by spending humanity to go human). dark souls 2 even tried to balance the online by introducing, essentially, experienced based matchmaking to cut down on lopsided battles.


from can do better. so hopefully the difficulty/acccessibility discourse around sekiro will motivate them to do so.
 

giraffereyn

Banned
Jan 20, 2019
327
Accessibility doesn't even need to just be for people with visible disabilities. We're some of the first generations of people that will grow old with video games. I fully expect to be playing video games for the rest of my life and I'm already incapable of beating games I could when I was younger. I'd love to play some of the games I enjoy now in retirement.
Imagine this crowd being old and using the 'Hold instead of Mash' option and how elated they'll feel that they were wrong.

I can't play the same games I could when I was a kid, so I use cheats to sight-see some of my favorite areas. I actually also did this as a kid, it was called debug mode in Sonic 2 and I used it to listen to my favorite stage music.