Kotaku: An easy mode has never ruined a game

[Siggy]

I think there are times when it's right to criticize a Fromsoft game's difficulty, but it's because they sometimes become difficult in a way that doesn't match the "difficult but fair" fights elsewhere in the games. Bed of Chaos was difficult because it broke the rules of the rest of the game, relied on iffy platforming, was way harder depending on what order you hit the boss's parts in, which you couldn't revert, and you could still fail it if you got unlucky and the boss decided to hit you underneath it even after you did everything right. Ditto in Bloodborne: some chalice bosses (Beast-Possessed Soul in particular) have a little too much health and aren't fun to fight because the best way to beat them is by parrying their highly telegraphed attacks 10-12 times which is just tedious, while trying to fight them like other bosses results in the boss poising through your hits and bodying you.

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Yeah, it's fair to point out they are far from perfect games and that can lead to unintentional difficulties. The camera usually being garbage certainly doesn't seem intended and causes problems all the time. Similarly, there are opportunities to make the game easier that do not seem intended. However, I'd also prefer them to simply fix those issues instead of making an Easy Mode to mask them :p (I know you probably do, too.)

 

[Glassboy]

I don't understand. From's games being hard is the point. That's why they exist and are as popular as they are. Not all games have to be for everybody.

 

[Xiaomi]

I mean, I do want that. I endured Dark Souls. The pull of lording it over "less skilled" gamers is powerful, the dark side tempting.

Ultimately... I decided Dark Souls wasn't worth it. Let me know when all these Dark Souls players "git gud" and beat F-Zero X's Story Mode on Hardest difficulty. Bwa ha ha!

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I did that (assuming you mean GX?) back in the day. I remember it unlocked something disappointing, but I don't remember what. Doesn't make me part of a special club, just a bored tenth-grader without many games at the time.

Battletoads and Super Star Wars continue to elude me to this day, however. I'll get them eventually.

 

[shem]

Good thing the argument that it affects other modes is actually pretty rare and not even remotely the crux of arguments here.

Also good old From being more ableist than Celeste again. Better blame the players. That will get them.

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It's the only one that needs to be had. These modes would enable people who otherwise couldn't to enjoy the game. Arguments to the contrary of concerns over developer resources aren't really a gamers concern. We critique games all the time for missing features that would likely impact development resources. Suddenly when it's for a minority group people are up in arms about keeping the budget low.

Arguments about developer intention are addressed by the Celeste comparison, a Masocore indie platformer that somehow squeezed enough money out of the budget to enable people and not compromise design intent.

Somehow I guess from isn't smart, well funded, or motivated enough.

I say this as someone who has beaten the game already.

Also I don't know where you got the idea that I'm criticizing the players of the game though it is indicative that you take my criticism of a developer as a personal affront.

 

[Budi]

I'm sorry it wasn't clear that I disagree with the stance that easy mode is an appropriate tool for accessibility despite several of my posts directly stating that. Maybe I could've made that clearer, but given my previous posts and the proximity of my response to the poster saying the title of the article is misleading I figured I was good to go.

I edited this in earlier, but I'll repeat it in this post for you. It's my take on this whole situation.

Easy mode is an awful, all encompassing balance adjustment that can't possibly address the many ways impaired or differently abled people struggle with games. It's not a good way to address those issues. Presenting it as some kind of cure all or that easy mode's primary function is to serve that audience is bullshit.

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I agree that easy mode isn't the best they could do regarding difficulty. But to give even bigger and more precise control to the player. In the manner of Dishonored 2, Celeste and Way of the Passive Fist. So people can then adjust whatever parts they need to adjust and how much. It's very true that we shouldn't just focus on blunt easy mode, we should evolve the discussion beyond that. What should be specifically adjustable etc. What are the things in these games causing the most trouble and best options to alleviate that.

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The Difficulty Setting screen lets you set four difficulty parameters to customize a difficulty setting that suits your preferred play style. You can also practice by focusing on specific elements to help you improve in the game.

ENEMY STRENGTH

This setting determines how much damage enemies do when they successfully hit you.

Lowest Setting: Enemies will do the least amount of damage when they hit you.

Highest Setting: Enemies will do as much as 4 times the damage as compared to the lowest setting.

ENCOUNTERS

This setting determines how many enemies you will be fighting at once.

Lowest Setting: enemy waves will be made up of fewer enemies, meaning you'll rarely fight more than a couple of enemies at a time.

Highest Setting: enemy waves will be made up of many enemies, meaning you'll have to face more enemies on screen at once.

COMBO MASTERY

This setting determines which parries will award combo points.

Lowest Setting: Late parries, Normal Parries & Perfect Parries all award combo points.

Medium Setting: Late parries do NOT award combo points. Normal Parries and Perfect Parries award combo points.

Highest Setting: ONLY perfect parries will award combo points.

RESOURCEFULNESS

This setting determines how many checkpoints and items will be found in levels.

Lowest Setting: there will be a checkpoint for every Scene (combat encounter) and many healing items will be found when caches are opened.

Highest Setting: you will have to fight through as many as 3 Scenes between checkpoints and caches will yield fewer healing items.

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[Thrill_house]

But would the series have been as successful as it is now if it had difficulty settings? It's "extreme" difficulty is what built up it's reputation, as well as it's uncompromising challenge and level playing field.

I have sympathy for disabled gamers who need the assistance and need greater elements of accessibility.

I don't really have sympathy for people who are otherwise able who just want an easier experience. THAT'S when I will say to them "find another game", or keep at it, because everyone is bad at Souls at first. I was. I still get murdered by bosses, but I stick with it and it's a blast.

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Yes, I personally feel it still would be. I have a great time finally smashing through that brick wall of a boss but to others that may be a dead end. I could still get my enjoyment out of it as would my unskilled friend. For him, killing it on easy mode could be just as difficult as normal for you and I. Using P5 for an example, I played on normal and while it was not as hard as the previous games, it was still challenging for me. It mopped the floor with him. The dude restarted on an easier setting and he loves it. He seemed to get the same thrill I got after killing the first boss.

 

[sph3re]

Then deal with the difficulty in the game or play with a trainer on PC or play something else if you don't want to do either of those. From is not obligated nor are they currently interested in catering to this crowd. At this point that's just a fact.

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Cool story, bro. I'm saying it could and/or should be a priority. What do you lose by having an Easy mode? The standard difficulty is still there.

If people actually want to try one of these games then they should. Then stop by the community topics and join in and share things. Woah, that was hard.

Some of you are acting like From Software has chained people in a room and won't let them out. We need to save them and only then can a video game be tried on a console or PC!

I'm pretty sure on PC now you can probably scrounge a free copy of Dark Souls 1 from somewhere/someone or get it stupid cheap/part of a bundle.

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Normally you've got some good takes, but this post makes you look like a giant tool. "These people don't know what they're talking about because they haven't played the games." Fuck off with that gatekeeping shit, dude.

 

[Lyng]

Cool story, bro. I'm saying it could and/or should be a priority. What do you lose by having an Easy mode? The standard difficulty is still there.


Normally you've got some good takes, but this post makes you look like a giant tool. "These people don't know what they're talking about because they haven't played the games." Fuck off with that gatekeeping shit, dude.

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In the case of FROM games it has nothing to do with gatekeeping. It has everything to do with how difficulty is a core part of the game design. The experience goes hand in hand with the difficulty, something that people litterally cannot understand unless they have played the games.

 

[shem]

In the case of FROM games it has nothing to do with gatekeeping. It has everything to do with how difficulty is a core part of the game design. The experience goes hand in hand with the difficulty, something that people litterally cannot understand unless they have played the games.

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This is ignoring that someone might be drawn to the game for other reasons such as lore, art, or character design.

 

[JLP101]

I remember this same argument happened when Mass Effect 3 announced it would have a narrative option for gamers who want to focus more on the story and not the action.

 

[Lyng]

This is ignoring that someone might be drawn to the game for other reasons such as lore, art, or character design.

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How? Give it a change and you will find that the themes and lore go hand in hand with the core design as well.

 

[DerpHause]

This is ignoring that someone might be drawn to the game for other reasons such as lore, art, or character design.

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No, it doesn't ignore anything. It acknowledges that there was a conscious design decision that views these things as a cohesive whole.

 

[shem]

How? Give it a change and you will find that the themes and lore go hand in hand with the core design as well.

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I've literally platinumed bloodborne and beaten sekiro. I'm saying that someone can be drawn to those things but be unable to see them because of the core design they aren't able to engage with.

 

[Cooking]

Cool story, bro. I'm saying it could and/or should be a priority. What do you lose by having an Easy mode? The standard difficulty is still there.


Normally you've got some good takes, but this post makes you look like a giant tool. "These people don't know what they're talking about because they haven't played the games." Fuck off with that gatekeeping shit, dude.

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In his post he literally says people should try the games. How is that gate keeping

 

[Weltall Zero]

Thank you very much for the explanation! Sounds like a lot of work and I really appreciate all the effort that goes into it.

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Which makes it all the more infuriating when someone says "just increase player damage, health and armor". 9 out of 10 times that won't do a thing except break the game while not making it any easier. For example: increase damage across the board, and ranged weapons become far better than melee weapons, making the latter pointless. Increase only melee damage, and it's ranged weapons that become pointless. Or as I said before: increase health and armor all you want, if you get surrounded by three or four of the weakest enemy in Dark Souls, they'll still combo you to death; you'll just spend a lot more staring at the screen unable to do anything.

As a player it's easy to ask "just let me do more damage", then deride and laugh at devs that refuse with "muh art" comments; but as a dev, I refuse to release a game where one of its difficulties is straight out broken. Laugh all you want at us for taking pride in the quality and integrity of our work, but that pride is the entire reason we're making videogames rather than office work for twice the money and half the hours.

 

[Zeel]

ITT, people who didn't play Souls games are trying to ruin them for everyone.
Here is a wild idea: maybe instead of expecting all games to conform to one's specific needs, one should perhaps try to adapt to a game and it's own unique style of play, or if one doesn't have the time and patience to do that, maybe just do something else?

 

[sph3re]

In the case of FROM games it has nothing to do with gatekeeping. It has everything to do with how difficulty is a core part of the game design. The experience goes hand in hand with the difficulty, something that people litterally cannot understand unless they have played the games.

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I understand it. I've watched enough game analysis videos about the games, played every game in the series except Dark Souls 2 (including Demons Souls) to understand it.

On principle, I think if people want to play on Easy Mode in a game like Dark Souls, or literally any other game that does not have a difficulty setting, they should have that option.

No, the game "wasn't designed to be played that way," but who loses in that scenario? The player? If they knew the game was hard, they weren't going to "git gud" anyway, so wouldn't you rather have a separate mode that broadens the audience and gives the developer more money so they can make bigger and better games?

Makes no damned sense.

In his post he literally says people should try the games. How is that gate keeping

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You're right, it's not gatekeeping, it's arrogance. It assumes that the people making the claim that hard games should have an easy mode have clearly not played the games, because if they would, they wouldn't be saying that. Because surely, a real Dark Souls fan would never call for an easy mode.

 

[Lyng]

I've literally platinumed bloodborne and beaten sekiro. I'm saying that someone can be drawn to those things but be unable to see them because of the core design they aren't able to engage with.

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I guess we will just have to disagree. I have seen severely disabled people beating SOULS games so I dont think its too difficult.

 

[Tawantabe]

The main factor that got everyone attached to the series is the serious rebellion to industry standards.

 

[Lyng]

I understand it. I've watched enough game analysis videos about the games, played every game in the series except Dark Souls 2 (including Demons Souls) to understand it.

On principle, I think if people want to play on Easy Mode in a game like Dark Souls, or literally any other game that does not have a difficulty setting, they should have that option.

No, the game "wasn't designed to be played that way," but who loses in that scenario? The player? If they knew the game was hard, they weren't going to "git gud" anyway, so wouldn't you rather have a separate mode that broadens the audience and gives the developer more money so they can make bigger and better games?

Makes no damned sense.

You're right, it's not gatekeeping, it's arrogance. It assumes that the people making the claim that hard games should have an easy mode have clearly not played the games, because if they would, they wouldn't be saying that. Because surely, a real Dark Souls fan would never call for an easy mode.

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Its pretty fucking rich to call someone having a different opinion than you arrogant simply for having a different opinion. Maybe its arrogant to want developer to create there games to cater to your specifik wishes?

The difficulty is part of what gives the special feeling of souls games. The whole design is built around that feeling. Without that feeling its simply a different game.

 

[Weltall Zero]

I agree that easy mode isn't the best they could do regarding difficulty. But to give even bigger and more precise control to the player. In the manner of Dishonored 2, Celeste and Way of the Passive Fist. So people can then adjust whatever parts they need to adjust and how much. It's very true that we shouldn't just focus on blunt easy mode, we should evolve the discussion beyond that. What should be specifically adjustable etc. What are the things in these games causing the most trouble and best options to alleviate that.

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To provide the counterpoint that not everyone thinks this is the best way to do things: I actually hate games that do this. I want to play a game, not manage a spreadsheet. 9 times out of 10, when I see something like this, my gut reaction is "OK, you didn't know how to properly tune the difficulty of your game, so you're offloading that work to me :/ ".

Or, to reiterate what I posted earlier:

"More options are always better" is simply wrong as a dogma. Game designers know that, all other things being equal, a game should demand as few choices as possible from the player, so as not to induce overchoice. And indeed, having to think about difficulty and whether or not they picked the "correct" one is a perfect example of decision-induced stress.

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[Nameless]

This is a wonderful lore video by Vaatividya about what's widely considered to be one of the most difficult areas in Bloodborne(spoilers obviously).

Consider as you watch, the details/environmental storytelling you might miss if you could simply blaze through the level in a handful of minutes without needing to stay aware of your surroundings. Or the way its history feeds directly into its atmosphere, both of which are further enhanced and contextualized by the difficulty. Imagine encountering one of the most important & unsettling bosses in the game, a newborn god essentially, and having him pose little-to-no threat whatsoever. Notice how an ultra brutal optional fight rewards you with with a new weapon -- which rewards you with an incredible piece of lore surrounding the weapon, its former owner(a challenging boss from earlier), and the place it was found.

There are countless examples like these across Miyazaki's work that highlight how the difficulty is baked into the very fabric of the design and the experience he's trying to convey. We aren't just making this stuff up.

 

[BradGrenz]

I addressed that in my post though. I understand how an easier difficulty would be a different experience for you or I. That's a valid point. However it wouldn't be for a less skilled or handicapped gamer. The gamers who this topic is largely about would get the same experience that more skilled gamers would get on the normal difficulty.

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But can you at least see that, in a game that is literally about having no easy ways out of a challenging situation, adding a lower difficulty option undercuts that core theme? That's all I've been trying to point out.

Criticism is fair game for critique, answering criticism with get good or buy something else isn't criticism of critique it's an attempt to deflect or silence it.

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That is not how I answered you criticism, but misrepresenting my position IS an attempt to deflect or silence.

 

[Acido]

It's not about anyones experience, it's about the experience the dev wants to deliver on. Why are people so salty about people stating the obvious?

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Are you one of the developers?

 

[Budi]

To provide the counterpoint that not everyone thinks this is the best way to do things: I actually hate games that do this. I want to play a game, not manage a spreadsheet. 9 times out of 10, when I see something like this, my gut reaction is "OK, you didn't know how to properly tune the difficulty of your game so you're offloading that work to me :/ ".

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Oh definitely, it's entirely optional. What I've been saying is that there should be the finely tuned difficulty in the games as there is right now. And like Mark Brown has also adressed in his difficulty related videos, that it's important for the developers to communicate about the options. If you have done great amount of work for certain experience, then communicate that to the player clearly. And also just as clearly communicate that altering the settings will break the intended balance.

 

[Garlador]

ITT, people who didn't play Souls games are trying to ruin them for everyone.
Here is a wild idea: maybe instead of expecting all games to conform to one's specific needs, one should perhaps try to adapt to a game and it's own unique style of play, or if one doesn't have the time and patience to do that, maybe just do something else?

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I've played, beaten, and loved them since Demon's Souls.

...I'd love an easier mode.

 

[Enduin]

I guess we will just have to disagree. I have seen severely disabled people beating SOULS games so I dont think its too difficult.

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Anecdotal evidence like that really is not useful at all. Everyone's disabilities and impairments are different and affect them differently, the achievements of some should not cancel out the needs of others. It's in no way wrong to acknowledge that some people need assistance and are limited by their disabilities and to then provide them with the tools to make up for them.

Most people recognize that difficulty and challenge is a large part of the draw and experience of From games, but what is difficult and challenging is relevant. Many want to experience that challenge, but on terms that are achievable for them. That some don't care at all about the challenge really shouldn't matter either as long as it is still there for those who do want it.

To provide the counterpoint that not everyone thinks this is the best way to do things: I actually hate games that do this. I want to play a game, not manage a spreadsheet. 9 times out of 10, when I see something like this, my gut reaction is "OK, you didn't know how to properly tune the difficulty of your game so you're offloading that work to me :/ ".

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These aren't really there for you though. These kinds of options, while available for everyone and to the potential benefit of everyone, are likely there largely to provide better accessibility because of the very reasons you've outlined as to why it's hard to balance games. And even if that's not the intention and they do just suck at tuning their difficulty so what, it still makes the game more accessible. No solution is perfect and will make every game perfectly accessible for every person no matter what, but giving players direct access to adjust various values as they need it is at least a step that would assist many people in a much better fashion that curated and one size fits all difficulty modes.

 

[shem]

This is a wonderful lore video by Vaatividya about what's widely considered to be one of the most difficult areas in Bloodborne(spoilers obviously).

Consider as you watch, the details/environmental storytelling you might miss if you could simply blaze through the level in a handful of minutes without needing to stay aware of your surroundings. Or the way its history feeds directly into its atmosphere, both of which are further enhanced and contextualized by the difficulty. Imagine encountering one of the most important & unsettling bosses in the game, a newborn god essentially, and having him pose little-to-no threat whatsoever. Notice how an ultra brutal optional fight rewards you with with a new weapon -- which rewards you with an incredible piece of lore surrounding the weapon, its former owner(a challenging boss from earlier), and the place it was found.

There are countless examples like these across Miyazaki's work that highlight how the difficulty is baked into the very fabric of the design and the experience he's trying to convey. We aren't just making this stuff up.

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I've watched all those videos. I have an appreciation for the world building.

Trying to insinuate that somehow someone couldn't appreciate that with a accessibility options is dross. Me dying 20 times at orphan of kos didn't make me appreciate the world building more than if I had beat him first try. People can read and understand something in context. If they know that for instance a slider they adjusted knowingly in the game made the parry windows more generous so that they could be able to react fast enough to beat the first boss in Sekiro wouldn't diminish their ability to read and understand context.

 

[DerpHause]

Are you one of the developers?

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Are we ignoring what the developers said?

 

[Lyng]

Anecdotal evidence like that really is not useful at all. Everyone's disabilities and impairments are different and affect them differently, the achievements of some should not cancel out the needs of others. It's in no way wrong to acknowledge that some people need assistance and are limited by their disabilities and to then provide them with the tools to make up for them.

Most people recognize that difficulty and challenge is a large part of the draw and experience of From games, but what is difficult and challenging is relevant. Many want to experience that challenge, but on terms that are achievable for them. That some don't care at all about the challenge really shouldn't matter either as long as it is still there for those who do want it.

These aren't really there for you though. These kinds of options, while available for everyone and to the potential benefit of everyone, are likely there largely to provide better accessibility because of the very reasons you've outlined as to why it's hard to balance games. And even if that's not the intention and they do just suck at tuning their difficulty so what, it still makes the game more accessible. No solution is perfect, but giving players direct access to adjust as they need it is at least a step that would assist many people in a much better fashion that curated and one size fits all difficulty modes.

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My issue is that people are conflating difficulty with accessibility. FROM games dont require you to have insane twitchy skills (belive me I dont), they are difficult in that they ask you to learn you enemy and climb that mountain by learing and getting better, something everyone can learn. And that idea is baked into the very lore and story telling of the game, which is why simply making the game "easy" would completely change the game and actually ruin its design.

 

[Nameless]

I've watched all those videos. I have an appreciation for the world building.

Trying to insinuate that somehow someone couldn't appreciate that with a accessibility options is dross. Me dying 20 times at orphan of kos didn't make me appreciate the world building more than if I had beat him first try. People can read and understand something in context. If they know that for instance a slider they adjusted knowingly in the game made the parry windows more generous so that they could be able to react fast enough to beat the first boss in Sekiro wouldn't diminish their ability to read and understand context.

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I'm saying it's all tied to, and enhanced by the difficulty, not that it would have no redeeming value without it. OoK is one of the most trilling bosses and memorable victories I've ever experienced in a video game. He wouldn't be if he was a cupcake.

 

[shem]

I'm saying it's all tied to, and enhanced by the difficulty, not that it would have no redeeming value without it. OoK is one of the most trilling bosses and memorable victories I've ever experienced in a video game. He wouldn't be if he was a cupcake.

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And he wouldn't be..........because you wouldn't select the modes we are talking about.

 

[Acido]

Are we ignoring what the developers said?

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Just looked it up oops. It is still valid criticism for someone to feel the need of an easier mode tho.

 

[sph3re]

Its pretty fucking rich to call someone having a different opinion than you arrogant simply for having a different opinion. Maybe its arrogant to want developer to create there games to cater to your specific wishes?

The difficulty is part of what gives the special feeling of souls games. The whole design is built around that feeling. Without that feeling its simply a different game.

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I think all these people clamoring for no Easy modes should really hop into one of our amazing community threads for Easy games before they start posting their opinions here.

^^^
That's literally what was said. If that's not arrogance, I don't know what is.

And just having an Easy mode--and I cannot stress this enough--doesn't remove the original difficulty.

 

[Budi]

My issue is that people are conflating difficulty with accessibility. FROM games dont require you to have insane twitchy skills (belive me I dont), they are difficult in that they ask you to learn you enemy and climb that mountain by learing and getting better, something everyone can learn. And that idea is baked into the very lore and story telling of the game, which is why simply making the game "easy" would completely change the game and actually ruin its design.

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So why do you think that adjustable difficulty, through blunt difficulty selection or more detailed settings menu for specific aspects, that are tied to difficulty isn't also an accessibility option? And if it wasn't something you had to tinker with, you'd get the exact experience you have right now, why would it be a problem? People have already told that they've tinkered with the games' difficulty on PC and their experience improved. So why not open up something similar to all the platforms, so more people could have fine time with the games. As of right now they aren't.

 

[Zeel]

And he wouldn't be..........because you wouldn't select the modes we are talking about.

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Not necessarily, I had a few moments with some tougher bosses in Souls games where I definitely would've been tempted to switch to an easier mode if available. That would've definitely ruin the game for me somewhat, even after beating the boss then I wouldn't feel the achievement because I switched to an easier mode. When the game doesn't give me the option, then it forces me to get better in a sometimes masochistic way, and this is exactly what I need.

 

[Enduin]

My issue is that people are conflating difficulty with accessibility. FROM games dont require you to have insane twitchy skills (belive me I dont), they are difficult in that they ask you to learn you enemy and climb that mountain by learing and getting better, something everyone can learn. And that idea is baked into the very lore and story telling of the game, which is why simply making the game "easy" would completely change the game and actually ruin its design.

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No one is conflating anything. Difficulty is accessibility for many people. This is what many people with disabilities and advocacy groups are asking for, you telling them you suck but still manage doesn't mean anything. If they could manage they would. It's not really helpful at all.

"Easy" is a really problematic word as people just fall into this idea of no challenge when that's not necessarily what's being asked for, because again most people are asking for options, not just an "easy mode" as the Kotaku headline insinuates. Many people still want a challenge, but one that is equal to their abilities and skills and that means options to tune it to their needs. It may be easy and rob the game of it's core design for you or me, but for them it will still provide a meaningful and rewarding challenge they otherwise would not have experienced.

And those options go both ways. Meaning players who find a game lacks challenge would have better options to increase it. It's not a perfect solution but it is one that would help out a lot of people.

 

[DerpHause]

And just having an Easy mode--and I cannot stress this enough--doesn't remove the original difficulty.

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No one says it does.

Just looked it up oops. It is still valid criticism for someone to feel the need of an easier mode tho.

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It's also fair for From to continue to say no to that criticism and force players to either deal in what they have created.

 

[SimonM7]

I think the topic of game difficulty is a bit muddy, to be honest. I think the increased clamouring for difficulty modes in modern games is due to the emphasis on story and the idea that simply witnessing the game is the point of it. Which, in a majority of cases, it has become. It doesn't matter one iota how hard the enemies are to defeat in a Red Dead Redemption 2, because the purpose of that game is to let you live and breathe and be engrossed in that world.

If the actual point and proposition of the game is embedded in the challenge of it, however - like climbing a mountain or running a marathon - of course you could argue that the game is ruined by cutting into that very identity. It is effectively characterised by the challenge it provides, and thus compromised by person X having one experience and person Y having another. Being partially flown to the top of a mountain is not 'having climbed the mountain', and if the point of media is to convey something specific, something in particular which aims to become shared culture, you have to look at what the work is setting out to do.

Maybe that sounds like some elitist True Gamer type garbage, but that's not my sentiment at all, so I hope it doesn't.

 

[Carlius]

Sekiro: Shadows Die Twice mod adds an "Easy" mode by slowing down the player and game speed

 

[Xiaomi]

I've watched all those videos. I have an appreciation for the world building.

Trying to insinuate that somehow someone couldn't appreciate that with a accessibility options is dross. Me dying 20 times at orphan of kos didn't make me appreciate the world building more than if I had beat him first try. People can read and understand something in context. If they know that for instance a slider they adjusted knowingly in the game made the parry windows more generous so that they could be able to react fast enough to beat the first boss in Sekiro wouldn't diminish their ability to read and understand context.

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Couldn't you enjoy the world-building even without being able to beat the Orphan by that logic? You're not locked out of Hollow Knight's lore, for instance, just because you can't beat Nightmare King Grimm. These are optional superbosses that come after all the storytelling is done. Which is a far cry from the first mandatory main boss in Sekiro, who by most accounts is quite easy after a couple of tries.

 

[shem]

Not necessarily, I had a few moments with some tougher bosses in Souls games where I definitely would've been tempted to switch to an easier mode if available. That would've definitely ruin the game for me somewhat, even after beating the boss then I wouldn't feel the achievement because I switched to an easier mode. When the game doesn't give me the option, then it forces me to get better in a sometimes masochistic way, and this is exactly what I need.

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So like to prevent you from being tempted to bust down a difficulty setting others shouldn't be able to play the game?

Couldn't you enjoy the world-building even without being able to beat the Orphan by that logic? You're not locked out of Hollow Knight's lore, for instance, just because you can't beat Nightmare King Grimm. These are optional superbosses that come after all the storytelling is done. Which is a far cry from the first mandatory main boss in Sekiro, who by most accounts is quite easy after a couple of tries.

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What about all the bosses in front of him gating your ability to see the world for yourself? He's easy for you. He might be literally impossible for someone else. This is the issue.

 

[roflwaffles]

On my second fresh run of Sekiro.

If the combat wasn't challenging, the combat would be boring as hell IMO, like it sort of is on your second playthrough once you know how to game works.

 

[Ishmae1]

I think the crux of the issue here is that Sekiro demands you play (down to almost a per-encounter manner) in a very specific way, more than Souls or even BB asked of players. That way of play is not for everyone and seems to be for less players than any previous FROM game has been, based on the ongoing debate. Unlike previous games, there's also no way to make the encounters easier by "grinding" for levels so you can buffer your mistakes or brute-force things - you either figure out each puzzle as laid out, or you don't progress. Early skills aren't great boons to help here either. This puts the grind completely on "training" and mastering the combat exactly as they want you to play it; it's more fighting game and less action game at this point.

Also, fighting mostly humanoids of my player's size makes the read area of the screen (the pixel area that gives me information that I need to respond to) a lot smaller than any previous FROM game, where monsters had more unique and grander tells far beyond the subtle stuff we see with human opponents here. I think this is why the General on the horse is the best / most fun fight early in the game - it's big and readable. It's also why I bet the special attack indicator (grabs, etc.) was added as an attempt to make things easier on players.

Personally, I like Souls / BB better because I have room to play differently than my friends, and that makes for interesting conversation; Sekiro isn't a game I'll ever NG+ because the experience is so focused on only one way to play, and it's not my personal favorite.

Really, if they wanted easier difficulty, all they'd need to do is increase the times on attack windups, so you have more frames to react and know what the correct rock/paper/scissors counter is to the moves that are coming at you. You'd still have to learn the combat and tells and not get hit, but at least you could react better to what was coming your way for a limited time window. A slow time prosthetic that just lets you see a read here and there would do it. IMO, of course.

 

[DerpHause]

So like to prevent you from being tempted to bust down a difficulty setting others shouldn't be able to play the game?

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Apparently wanting players to experience the game at a specific minimum level is sufficient.

Because that's the fact of the matter we're dealing with.

 

[Weltall Zero]

These aren't really there for you though. These kinds of options, while available for everyone and to the potential benefit of everyone, are likely there largely to provide better accessibility because of the very reasons you've outlined as to why it's hard to balance games. And even if that's not the intention and they do just suck at tuning their difficulty so what, it still makes the game more accessible. No solution is perfect and will make every game perfectly accessible for every person no matter what, but giving players direct access to adjust various values as they need it is at least a step that would assist many people in a much better fashion that curated and one size fits all difficulty modes.

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The point is that I don't want to have to think about these options, much like people who play games on consoles don't want to think about resolution or antialias or supersampling or texture resolution. You don't "have to" tweak these settings, but the very presence of a freaking screenful of sliders induces overchoice.

If there's a reasonable "normal" mode and these options are hidden away in a menu somewhere, I guess I don't much mind, but the game better not present them to me when I start a new game. It still introduces a plethora of other problems, like your game not being able to have multiplayer or scoreboards, or what to do regarding achievements.

 

[sph3re]

No one says it does.

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Really? Because they are sure acting like having an Easy mode would be the only way to play.

"It's not meant to be played that way!" Okay, so don't play it that way. Problem solved. It's almost as if... what was that quote again?

Some of you are acting like From Software has would chained people in a room and won't wouldn't let them out. We need to save them and only then can a video game be tried on a console or PC!

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Right. "Nobody is forcing you to play it." That's it.

 

[DWarriorSN]

Are painters abelist for only creating paintings that the blind can't see? What about Musicians for making music that deaf people can't hear? Like are we really at a point where when anyone says a creative team that makes something that can't be experienced by anyone is an ableist cunt? Because if thats the way this conversation is going lock it up now. No one is happily praising the fact that disabled gamers can't play every game.

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This how i feel aswell.

It sucks that some people can't participate in these experiences but that doesn't mean that those experiences shouldnt be made.

As i said before a game being hard with no other choice to improve other than getting better at it is a valid design choice.

The arguments against it come off like the "there are starving children in Africa" arguement.

 

[Deleted member 888]

Cool story, bro. I'm saying it could and/or should be a priority. What do you lose by having an Easy mode? The standard difficulty is still there.

Normally you've got some good takes, but this post makes you look like a giant tool. "These people don't know what they're talking about because they haven't played the games." Fuck off with that gatekeeping shit, dude.

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It's slightly tongue and cheek, but where is the intersection between "I really want to play this game" and "I've not even tried to play this game"? Why are a few people saying "I really want to play this game" then stopping short of actually trying it for themselves? Someone expressing to me or openly that they really want to play something has me think, oh okay, so, you sound like you're going to do something about that?

Maybe it's just me, but all throughout my gaming career, if I wanted to play something, I'd actually... play it. As in, if I'm that confident I want to play it and have researched it, or watched reviews or whatever it is about the game/genre that makes me think "I want to play this and not that other game". You can rent, borrow from a friend, wait for sales and other things if a game is a risk for you at $60.

How is it controversial to say some people who haven't played the games might not have the most accurate takes on a game they're knee-deep in discussing when it comes to design/gameplay and functionality? That's like suggesting you know more than a reviewer who's just played the game whilst you sit and wait for it to be released. It's very likely you don't, seeing as they've actually just sat and played the game.

This is a wonderful lore video by Vaatividya about what's widely considered to be one of the most difficult areas in Bloodborne(spoilers obviously).

Consider as you watch, the details/environmental storytelling you might miss if you could simply blaze through the level in a handful of minutes without needing to stay aware of your surroundings. Or the way its history feeds directly into its atmosphere, both of which are further enhanced and contextualized by the difficulty. Imagine encountering one of the most important & unsettling bosses in the game, a newborn god essentially, and having him pose little-to-no threat whatsoever. Notice how an ultra brutal optional fight rewards you with with a new weapon -- which rewards you with an incredible piece of lore surrounding the weapon, its former owner(a challenging boss from earlier), and the place it was found.

There are countless examples like these across Miyazaki's work that highlight how the difficulty is baked into the very fabric of the design and the experience he's trying to convey. We aren't just making this stuff up.

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Damn you for posting this. Bloodborne > All other Souls games.

 

[Deleted member 1120]

Really? Because they are sure acting like having an Easy mode would be the only way to play.

"It's not meant to be played that way!" Okay, so don't play it that way. Problem solved. It's almost as if... what was that quote again?

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Well when the creators of the game themselves say it's not meant to be played that way, and exclude an easy mode for that reason. Then your point is moot. lol