Kotaku: An easy mode has never ruined a game

[giraffereyn]

Ding ding ding.

There's a reason why Bloodborne's "La La La..." is iconing compared to others, and it's not because the monster is a good singer. Bullshit enemy or not, is such a big part of the experience that is tied with the enemy design and the atmosphere of the level. Being a challenging game enhances the atmosphere of these games that are always acclaimed, and also enhances a combat system that otherwise would be pretty barebones.

That doesn't mean an easy mode can be devoid of challenge, but difficulty is an important pillar in these games. So, adding difficulty choices (something that I'm not against per se) has to be something really fine-tuned, compared to say an Uncharted game.

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These are all things that you are appreciating and its cool that you can do that with your level of skill and prowess, but the people who are asking for an easy mode and expanded difficulty option already know they can't have the same experience as you. A lot of players can't move their hands and need assistance devices. They already know that a lot of what they do isn't the same as what ANYONE does. All they want is to be able to play the game and find something they can appreciate at their skill level.

Appreciation can look like: exploring an environment to take in the music and sounds, using infinite health cheats to navigate an area, not to beat enemies, but just to watch them move and attack, admiring the colors of late stage areas and new enemies. To someone this expeience is just as valuable as yours and is often the ONLY experience they have access to.

 

[MadScientist]

I just keep on coming back to the fact, if there is an assist or easy mode...how does that affect your playthrough on normal? It doesn't one bit.

 

[Deleted member 32374]

Don't dismiss chronic pain or other conditions like arthritis that cause people serious pain and discomfort from every day tasks and actions. Remapping does not always alleviate problems people may have with their hands or motor functions. Plenty of people have all sorts of conditions that affect their reflexes, motor functions, ability to process information quickly, and on and on that can only be partially or not at all alleviated by special control inputs and remapping. It can be quite impossible for some people to react in time and as rapidly as the game demands. For them the only option that would allow them to play the game would be to provide options to adjust the difficulty to better match their abilities.

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Exactly.

A lot of people are putting in work to create new control schemes, hardware and even games to assist those gamers with disabilities. The outside effort can only go so far and difficulty modes are only one of many types of accessibility options that a game can offer. I've already posted the game accessibility guidelines page enough, so I won't do it again.

Also, I never played more than an hour of any From Software game and never played Sekiro, so I can't comment on that beyond what I get from this thread and YT.

 

[Deleted member 37739]

It can be quite impossible for some people to react in time and as rapidly as the game demands.

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But this statement is true for all games to some degree, as all games require some level of response, timing and motor finesse. Wherever you draw a line on what is an acceptable demand for the game to place on the player, there will be some on one side who are able to meet the challenge and others who are locked out. Who decides who it's okay to lock out?

I just keep on coming back to the fact, if there is an assist or easy mode...how does that affect your playthrough on normal? It doesn't one bit.

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It doesn't - not at all, but that's not what's being discussed here: it's whether or not a developer should be obligated to compromise on their original design in order to meet the needs of a wider audience.

Besides 'if it doesn't affect me, it doesn't matter' is kind of a crappy attitude.

 

[ngower]

And that's cool, you seem to have a plethora of options at hand for games that suit what you look for after yourworkday. After a stressful workday I'm more inclined to play some Splatoon 2 rather than Hollow Knight or Sekiro, too (and still get stressed out at people with 300 points at the end of the match, or afk people). I'm fine with that though and don't go on the internet and ask the devs of Hollow Knight for an easy mode. Options are there for a reason. Options as in: I'll just play something else.

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But what's the harm in a difficulty slider? I'm not a pro ranked Splatoon player and I don't care about whatever the mode is called where you deal with waves of enemies. I like unranked and I have a blast playing it but people who want the hardcore modes can still get that.

Why can't the Souls games have difficulty options? I'll never play a shooter on the most intense difficulties but the baby modes are too easy. One of the median difficulties suits my play style in that I'm offered a challenge that isn't insurmontable. What harm is done in offering that option to players who, like myself, want to enjoy these games but who don't have the time or patience to deal with the demands of Sekiro at its most obtuse?

 

[DerpHause]

I just keep on coming back to the fact, if there is an assist or easy mode...how does that affect your playthrough on normal? It doesn't one bit.

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No one is saying that it does.

 

[Deleted member 41520]

No, I'm not. I'm saying maybe the actual devs know what they're doing. I'm also taking Miyazaki at his stated word on the matter of difficulty being intentional and purposeful.

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If you want to go only by what we've heard from the horse's mouth, then Miyazaki's words don't agree with you. He verbatim said that From don't make their games difficult intentionally. They i) aim to give players a sense of accomplishment, and ii) try to encourage players to experiment.

On the basis of those two points, arguably they fail, because a huge amount of players don't experiment (see the insane amount of folk who cheese their ways through all the games) and an even larger amount of players don't get a sense of accomplishment because they bow out before they can get anywhere near it (or they cheese any of the really rewarding fights).

I think all the games are masterpieces and love every one of them, but I still think that adding systems to nerf the game's difficulty would be a welcome and widely-loved addition. I'm not saying a setting at the start like "easy, medium, hard," I'm saying items or processes built into the game, like you already get in their games. For instance the Demon Bell in Sekiro (that makes all enemies stats higher) should have a "nerf" counterpart, e.g. a Divine Bell (that would make all enemies stats lower). It would be something to discover just like any other system in the games but be there to make it easier for people who struggle with twitch-reflexes or have accessibility issues.

And people like yourself who don't care for it will just never touch it. Just like how I have no interest in making the game harder, so I never touched the Demon Bell.

 

[Tetra-Grammaton-Cleric]

I'll just reply to both of you because you cover a similar point, how cryptic the games are. That is something I don't deny, but like any click and point adventure game (Broken Sword) or other puzzle games, that is part of what Dark Souls is. It doesn't hold your hand. It expects you to make mistakes and learn from them. People don't do zero death playthroughs from their first experience. Nor do they even possibly pick up all the items or know what to do with them.

Having to really spend time and attention thinking, or, failing that, you can just rely on the excellent community and wikis to do it all for you. Miyazaki himself implying that is part of the community his games made that he is fine with. Even if it involves all the cheese and tactics players come up with.

Even the sidequests can be quite convoluted and not quite clear how you keep NPCs alive or progress their quests. That's part of the experience. There is a market for that. It's okay that not every game needs to have big quest markers and a detailed journal entry telling you everything you've to do.

Again, that probably being the reason some fans get a bit defensive. They've found one developer in a AAA industry who isn't conforming to what the open world map/quest log looks like in any given WRPG right now.

Because of how these games are, that's why we get videos like this



And all the other hundreds of lore videos and "things you missed".

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I agree with everything you've stated here but let's be realistic, many people simply do not have the time nor compunction to peruse Wikis or watch You Tube videos in order to mine relevant information to complete these games and my point – or more accurately my question – is why does it matter if these types of players are given concessions to make things easier?

And again, I'm not saying people are owed this or that From Software should implement an easy mode but what I don't grasp is the notion that such a mode would be problematic for the rest of us.

It seems like such a non-issue and yet there are people vociferously rebuking this notion as somehow damaging to the core integrity of the experience even when that modified experience would never affect us directly.

 

[Deleted member 4247]

Sure. But equally true is the statement that not all games need to be beatable by everyone

 

[LiK]

But this statement is true for all games to some degree, as all games require some level of response, timing and motor finesse. Wherever you draw a line on what is an acceptable demand for the game to place on the player, there will be some on one side who are able to meet the challenge and others who are locked out. Who decides who it's okay to lock out?

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Lord knows I'll never be good at Tetris. Fucking T-Spins.

 

[Enduin]

But this statement is true for all games to some degree, as all games require some level of response, timing and motor finesse. Wherever you draw a line on what is an acceptable demand for the game to place on the player, there will be some on one side who are able to meet the challenge and others who are locked out. Who decides who it's okay to lock out?

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The point is to try and alleviate and avoid that as much as possible. That you may not always succeed is just how things are, but just attempting is at least worthwhile. That doesn't mean altering the core function or "Vision" for you game as people say, but at least providing means by which people who do struggle can at least attempt to alleviate those issues and have a fighting chance at playing the game.

Again for a lot of disabled people simply giving them the option to adjust certain values in the game like how much damage they take and give, how much health is restored by gourdes and pellets and how many of those items they have could be enough to make the game accessible to them. There would be no need to slow down or alter enemy attack patterns or speeds. Yeah they might get a hit a lot still and not able to deflect and avoid every attack, but they would still be in the fight. And at worst they can also have options for things like no player Posture, infinite health.

You cannot make every game available for every single person, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't at least attempt to provide options for people to at least try.

 

[QisTopTier]

Thhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhat's the point, they shouldn't be. Why should they? Because of "muh art"?

pfft.

People are also acting like difficulty is the only thing that makes these games special - stop selling them short. If brutal difficulty is all that's important, why aren't you all playing more NES games?

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Uh I grew up on nes games, I also blind playthrough games on max difficutlies and slam into shit for hours at times trying to figure stuff out. The journey is more important to me than I GOT THE ENDING OK IM DONE WITH GAME. You would think people would understand that beating from software games for the "story" isnt the point with how garbage the endings always are

 

[Tirisfal]

Don't dismiss chronic pain or other conditions like arthritis that cause people serious pain and discomfort from every day tasks and actions. Remapping does not always alleviate problems people may have with their hands or motor functions. Plenty of people have all sorts of conditions that affect their reflexes, motor functions, ability to process information quickly, and on and on that can only be partially or not at all alleviated by special control inputs and remapping. It can be quite impossible for some people to react in time and as rapidly as the game demands. For them the only option that would allow them to play the game would be to provide options to adjust the difficulty to better match their abilities.

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If you have chronic pain in your hands, don't play games that make you press buttons? I am not trying to be a smart ass here, I mean it. It's like when pros in esports get carpal tunnel, they have to rest and not play games at all. That doesn't have anything to do with the game not giving you a path to succeed though.

If you're too slow to parry, you can still beat the game. Dodging outright is just as viable, it just takes longer to kill bosses that way. And some moves have very generous wind-up animation times (like most thrust attacks which can be parried).

 

[Deleted member 37739]

You cannot make every game available for every single person, but that doesn't mean you should at least attempt to provide options for people to at least try.

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I think that's a sensible enough position: don't let perfect get in the way of better. I'll take the L on that.

 

[Enduin]

If you have chronic pain in your hands, don't play games that make you press buttons? I am not trying to be a smart ass here, I mean it. It's like when pros in esports get carpal tunnel, they have to rest and not play games at all. That doesn't have anything to do with the game not giving you a path to succeed though.

If you're too slow to parry, you can still beat the game. Dodging outright is just as viable, it just takes longer to kill bosses that way. And some moves have very generous wind-up animation times (like most thrust attacks which can be parried).

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Well try harder. Many people really enjoy games despite the pain and discomfort it might bring. It makes you a shit person to just tell them to not do something they may love and find enjoyment from due to a condition they cannot control. Especially when all that is necessary to alleviate said pain and discomfort and allow them to continue to enjoy those games is such a minimal thing that doesn't have any real affect or bearing on other people's experiences with that game.

 

[MadScientist]

No one is saying that it does.

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That's why this whole argument over FROM comprising on their vision is BS. Include an assist mode and let those who find your game too difficult/challenging (no matter what the reason) play your game. Majority of players can still play on normal/default and will see/experience the developers vision. FROM has the resources to dedicate some people to include this into the game.

 

[giraffereyn]

Heres something to remember about this problem: No one cares about the people who don't care about Sekiro. We aren't talking about people who already don't want to play a game and want to change the game so that it is different.

We are talking about people who are already fans or are willing to become fans, but CAN'T because something about the game is stopping them. The thing holding them back can range from the game being too hard all the way to someone being legally blind and needing assistant devices to experience any game at all.

We need options to cover the people who has issues navigating a menu, much less moving a character and adding options and modes is a solution to a lot of problems without compromising anyone else's experience. Things like button re-maping on a controller and third-party devices and Cheat Engine on PC are answers to a lot of these problems.

You are selling From Software waaaaay to fucking short if you don't think they can come up with a fun easy mode.

 

[Deleted member 1120]

That's why this whole argument over FROM comprising on their vision is BS. Include an assist mode and let those who find your game too difficult/challenging (no matter what the reason) play your game. Majority of players can still play on normal/default and will see/experience the developers vision. FROM has the resources to dedicate some people to include this into the game.

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FROM doesn't want to include assist modes.

 

[DerpHause]

If you want to go only by what we've heard from the horse's mouth, then Miyazaki's words don't agree with you. He verbatim said that From don't make their games difficult intentionally. They i) aim to give players a sense of accomplishment, and ii) try to encourage players to experiment.

On the basis of those two points, arguably they fail, because a huge amount of players don't experiment and an even larger amount of players don't get a sense of accomplishment because they bow out before they can get anywhere near it.

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Seems to be working fine. The progression and accomplishment being gated by engagement and experimentation is clearly working if players who fail to engage on that level don't procede. It's not stated to be a free dopamine ride. It has expectations. Intentional ones.

 

[Swiggins]

Hot Take: Nobody would give a shit about FROM games if it weren't for the community and identity built around their notorious difficulty, cause past that they are pretty bad games by most modern standards in the AAA space. So actually an easy mode probably would ruin their games.

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Oof, this is a hot take.

 

[QisTopTier]

Heres something to remember about this problem: No one cares about the people who don't care about Sekiro. We aren't talking about people who already don't want to play a game and want to change the game so that it is different.

We are talking about people who are already fans or are willing to become fans, but CAN'T because something about the game is stopping them. The thing holding them back can range from the game being too hard all the way to someone being legally blind and needing assistant devices to experience any game at all.

We need options to cover the people who has issues navigating a menu, much less moving a character and adding options and modes is a solution to a lot of problems without compromising anyone else's experience. Things like button re-maping on a controller and third-party devices and Cheat Engine on PC are answers to a lot of these problems.

You are selling From Software waaaaay to fucking short if you don't think they can come up with a fun easy mode.

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and this is ok, I've learned to let go of things due to my disability. The world doesn't revolve around me.

 

[Doctor Avatar]

He accused people who ask for options as being elitist. Just like you are doing.

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Really? Where did I call people who ask for options elitist? Or are you putting words into my mouth in order to attack me?

Like I said, stop with the ad hominem and name calling.

You're perfectly entitled to ask for options. I'm perfectly entitled to ask you for a million dollars. You are under no obligation to give me a million dollars and, guess what, FROM are under no obligation to give you options.

Developers have the right to make any kind of game they want. Your one and only right is whether or not you buy that game. The idea that there is some kind of moral failing behind not offering an easy mode to cater to you, or that there is some grand conspiracy of "elitist" gamers and developers who only want hard games to keep you away is frankly absurd and the people making these arguments really need to take a good hard look at themselves in the mirror. FROM do not have to cater to you, and the people who like FROM games do not care about you. You aren't important enough to demand that FROM do what you desire, nor important enough for anyone else to care what games you can or cannot play. Nobody cares, and nor should we.

 

[DerpHause]

That's why this whole argument over FROM comprising on their vision is BS. Include an assist mode and let those who find your game too difficult/challenging (no matter what the reason) play your game. Majority of players can still play on normal/default and will see/experience the developers vision. FROM has the resources to dedicate some people to include this into the game.

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But it is their stated vision. Not that player A not be hampered by player B in easy mode, but that both player A and B need to engage at a certain level. Miyazaki said that himself.

 

[Kill3r7]

Hot Take: Nobody would give a shit about FROM games if it weren't for the community and identity built around their notorious difficulty, cause past that they are pretty bad games by most modern standards in the AAA space. So actually an easy mode probably would ruin their games.

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There is a modicum of truth to what you are saying about the community aspect but their games are absolutely amazing, if you take the time to play them.

 

[Nerokis]

My post isn't calm? You not liking something I'm saying doesn't mean it isn't true, or that I'm not calm. Ultimately the people name calling in this thread are not the ones supporting FROM's right to make whatever game they want to make. You're free to take issue with that right, but that is a pretty illogical hill to die on. And when you hide behind name calling you're showing who is angry. Why would I be angry? FROM make games for me. I get what I want, I have nothing to be angry about.

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No, you don't come across as calm. Congratulations on not name calling, using caps, or throwing out !!s, but that doesn't make up for the wild mischaracterizations turning a conversation centered around accessibility into a conversation centered around entitled people throwing a tantrum.

But perhaps I forget that someone being calm doesn't preclude them from being unreasonable. :P

Your hand hurting from repeatedly pressing a button is not what I'd call the game not allowing you a path to succeed, especially since you can remap every button in the options. Do you have a better example?

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Being able to remap can help, but not always. It depends on the particular issue someone has.

Either way, you don't need me to come up with examples. I'm sure you're aware of a range of disabilities, and can imagine there are people out there who have additional difficulties with games because of them.

Even if you can't imagine such a thing, you can still answer my original question. If the game doesn't allow a reasonable path to success (reasonable in the sense that getting there doesn't require enduring actual physical pain, or that the difficulty doesn't stem from not being able to tell apart colors, or whatever else), doesn't that significantly undermine a lot that it's trying to do?

Just think about the "tough but fair" ethos that pervades Miyazaki's games. If you look to one of my earlier posts, I quote Miyazaki where he talks about being conscious that there's such a thing as unreasonable difficulty. You've been asking for examples of success being cut off because of a disability, but imagine examples of success being cut off for people who don't have disabilities. For instance, what if bosses didn't telegraph their attacks, or were totally unpredictable, or something else along those lines?

And "reasonable" changes from person to person. There are things that could reasonably be expected of you that couldn't be for someone else. Some of those people generally struggle with games because of a disability they have, and those are the very people who's Souls' themes should really resonate with the most.

 

[MadScientist]

If you have chronic pain in your hands, don't play games that make you press buttons? I am not trying to be a smart ass here, I mean it. It's like when pros in esports get carpal tunnel, they have to rest and not play games at all. That doesn't have anything to do with the game not giving you a path to succeed though.

If you're too slow to parry, you can still beat the game. Dodging outright is just as viable, it just takes longer to kill bosses that way. And some moves have very generous wind-up animation times (like most thrust attacks which can be parried).

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So many years ago, you would say " oh you're color blind, don't play certain games because you can't tell colors apart." Guess what, developers assisted gamers by including color blind options. And not just one, but multiple color blind options because it's not just red/green but can be different depending on the person. Color blind setting wasn't a feature many years ago, but it's becoming standard to assist the player in accessing and playing their game.

 

[Deleted member 8001]

Why is "I want a easy mode" more offensive than saying "I want a hard mode" to gamers?

 

[MYeager]

It doesn't - not at all, but that's not what's being discussed here: it's whether or not a developer should be obligated to compromise on their original design in order to meet the needs of a wider audience.

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I don't believe a developer should be obligated to compromise on an original design to meet the needs of a wider audience.

I also believe that the wider audience should look at a design and be free to ask for things they feel would help them enjoy the game, whether from a critical stand point for something they feel isn't working/for accessibility reasons/or any other reason. Developers are free to do with that feedback whatever they wish to, much like they do currently with criticisms to game plot and characters and if something is overpowered or underpowered, and that other players dismissing those criticisms or requests with 'git good' or 'you can't question the artistic vision' add nothing of value.

 

[Tetra-Grammaton-Cleric]

My wife can't handle specific types of violence or horror, she has to carefully vet what she watches for this reason as it can lead to full-blown panic attacks. Being a passive experience is no qualifier of being broadly accessible, and one need only take a look at something like Samuel Beckett or William S. Boroughs to recognise that even reading comprehension is, in itself, no guarantee, irrespective of content. This is to say nothing of specific cognitive disabilities like dyslexia.

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Whether or not you understand or enjoy something that is passive entertainment is incidental as there is nothing actually stopping you from flipping to the ending or experiencing the entirety of the media outside of some very specific limitations (including illiteracy) or personal choice.

You can read Gravity's Rainbow in it's entirely without understanding it.

Your wife opting not to watch horror films because they trigger panic attacks isn't the same as somebody who wants to play a game all the way through but is quite literally unable to do so because they cannot overcome the mechanics and difficulty.

That isn't to state there are no parallels (you've introduced some cogent examples) but people who keep attempting to foist these 1:1 analogies comparing passive entertainment to interactive entertainment are grossly disingenuous.

Anyone can watch a David Lynch film and reach the ending if they choose. Many (maybe even most) people cannot get to the ending of a From Software game.

Let's admit the difference.

 

[Deleted member 32374]

and this is ok, I've learned to let go of things due to my disability. The world doesn't revolve around me.

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No. I just know for me personally, accessibility options in games that let me be part of the action during some difficult days meant a lot to me, and that we should strive to include as many people as possible. With the amount of things that I've had to let go and then find new ways to do, discussing how accessibility and difficulty are linked in games and how we can improve isn't limited to one perspective.

 

[giraffereyn]

and this is ok, I've learned to let go of things due to my disability. The world doesn't revolve around me.

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Yeah good for you, No one cares about this kind of opinion. No one is trying to reshape the world. Why wouldn't a publisher try and get more people to play? This is an appeal to publishers to allow more people who are already customers to enjoy their hobby more.

Fuck you basically.

 

[Tirisfal]

Well try harder. Many people really enjoy games despite the pain and discomfort it might bring. It makes you a shit person to just tell them to not do something they may love and find enjoyment from due to a condition they cannot control. Especially when all that is necessary to alleviate said pain and discomfort and allow them to continue to enjoy those games is such a minimal thing that doesn't have any real affect or bearing on other people's experiences with that game.

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If someone wants to play even though it brings them delibitating pain, that is on them, not the developer.

And you haven't addressed my point regarding slow reflexes that you mentioned. I've already explained how other methods are possible, so I uphold what I said at the beginning, that saying this game does not give you a path to succeed is outright wrong. Unless someone can give me a valid point disputing this, because I haven't gotten one so far.

 

[BlackManLovesKUF]

No developer is obligated to do anything and games don't have to appeal to everyone or even most. That said I am also of the belief that Easy or assist modes don't ruin games; FROM Software would be included should they decide to add them. As far as FROM specifically is concerned as long as their games come to PC so that I can use PC trainers and hacks they're good with me.

 

[QisTopTier]

Why is "I want a easy mode" more offensive than saying "I want a hard mode" to gamers?

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Because at the end of the day a game is about overcoming challenges. People tend to naturally respect someone that wants to work harder than someone who complains the work is too hard.

 

[Transistor]

Hot Take: Nobody would give a shit about FROM games if it weren't for the community and identity built around their notorious difficulty, cause past that they are pretty bad games by most modern standards in the AAA space. So actually an easy mode probably would ruin their games.

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Not only is it a hot take. It's a horrible hot take at that, and it's pretty damn insulting to the developers who have busted their ass to make these amazing games.

 

[Doc Kelso]

If we want to talk about accessibility, I think it's just as important to talk about mental illness in the same breath as physical disability, and I haven't seen anyone do so yet.

I found Red Dead Redemption 2 impossible to play. I have ADHD and the world design and being so slow and the immersive realism meant that I wasn't able to complete the game, I would either get too distracted or just outright frustrated before putting it down. Should the design of that game have had a mode to suit my needs, so I could enjoy it? If so, what would that have looked like? Would it have compromised what made the game so great to so many people?

If we're going to discuss difficulty as a toggle, we need to look at how difficulty is as much a part of deliberate design as every other aspect of a game. From games lose a lot when they're easier. Hell, Sekiro's combat is pretty tedious once you remove the element of a single fuck-up potentially ending you. I'm totally for more accessibility options, but it's honestly a little frustrating to read all of these journos discuss physical disability without even so much as mentioning mental, despite the focus that mental illness often receives when talking about games. There are a lot of games I simply cannot play due to my illness and I've accepted that, man.

 

[KrillinLikeAVillan]

People love to throw this thought around but it's such a meaningless thing to say. No, more options are not always a good thing. Games are as much defined by what you can't do as they are by what you can. A lot of games are entirely based around restricting your options. Golf would be pretty boring if you could just pick up a ball and carry it to a hole — having to do it by striking the ball with a club is the whole point. You won't find a lot of people wishing Tetris had an option to just select blocks at will or to have just I-blocks — having to deal with the randomness and block shape is core to the game. You might argue the standard versions of those games aren't affected by the other options, which is true, but they're stupid options to want because you're asking for a different game. Same for Easy Souls.

Grab Unity 3D if you want your perfect game. You have so many options in it :^)

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That has to be the silliest most exaggerated example i have seen yet, when i said options i really meant options as in options from an options menu not some bizzaro land gameplay feature that removes any challenge from the game fully, nobody is asking for a feature in souls games that allows you to automatically kill enemies, it is possible to make a game easier/harder by gradients, it doesn't have to be all or nothing, and a benefit to the more hardcore players would be added higher difficulty levels.

Dark souls can still be dark souls even with optional difficulty levels, those games are way more than a unusually high difficulty level, they are superbly well crafted a-rpgs with a deep combat system and fascinating lore, everyone enjoys games for different reasons limiting dark souls to just those who want to be challenged is a bit sad because a lot of people are missing out on a great videogame.

Anyway the whole discussion is moot, Miyazaki has stated repeatedly that the difficulty is a key component of the dark souls formula in his mind, there will not be any difficulty levels.
Hardcore dark souls fan rejoice "your" game is free from the filthy casuals that somehow would detract from your enjoyment of the game in some nebulous way that doesn't exist. ;)

 

[Siggy]

Why is "I want a easy mode" more offensive than saying "I want a hard mode" to gamers?

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Games are problem solving tasks.

 

[Auto]

Hot Take: Nobody would give a shit about FROM games if it weren't for the community and identity built around their notorious difficulty, cause past that they are pretty bad games by most modern standards in the AAA space. So actually an easy mode probably would ruin their games.

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They are not bad game by any means.

An easy mode wouldn't ruin the game, but it would probably really dampen the experience and have a lot of people wondering what the fuss is all about regarding FROM games.

 

[Deleted member 1120]

Is some of ya'lls goal to make people seem ableist for enjoying what they like?

 

[Doctor Avatar]

No, you don't come across as calm. Congratulations on not name calling, using caps, or throwing out !!s, but that doesn't make up for the wild mischaracterizations turning a conversation centered around accessibility into a conversation centered around entitled people throwing a tantrum.

But perhaps I forget that someone being calm doesn't preclude them from being unreasonable. :P

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TIL saying creators have the right to create what they want is "unreasonable". However demanding games be designed around me and that there is something wrong when they are not is "reasonable".

The more you know. Are you from bizarro world? Surely the Souls games are easy where you're from?

 

[QisTopTier]

Yeah good for you, No one cares about this kind of opinion. No one is trying to reshape the world. Why wouldn't a publisher try and get more people to play? This is an appeal to publishers to allow more people who are already customers to enjoy their hobby more.

Fuck you basically.

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Nice. Good rational response.

 

[Blade Wolf]

Thhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhat's the point, they shouldn't be. Why should they? Because of "muh art"?

pfft.

People are also acting like difficulty is the only thing that makes these games special - stop selling them short. If brutal difficulty is all that's important, why aren't you all playing more NES games?

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So is ''muh accessibility'' more important?

 

[Nairume]

I found Red Dead Redemption 2 impossible to play. I have ADHD and the world design and being so slow and the immersive realism meant that I wasn't able to complete the game, I would either get too distracted or just outright frustrated before putting it down. Should the design of that game have had a mode to suit my needs, so I could enjoy it? If so, what would that have looked like? Would it have compromised what made the game so great to so many people?

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Reasonably speaking, you could probably design a slider/series of toggles that let you scale down the non-critical content. Or even just do the minimum of having a way to disable non-critical content from showing up on the map, so the temptation to go and clear out the little blips on the map wouldn't be there.

 

[Tetra-Grammaton-Cleric]

So I don't think From owes it but let's say they opted to add difficulty settings.

Now let's imagine those difficulty settings had no overt bearing on the core gameplay for those of us who want the crushing difficulty.

Does an easy mode - one that we don't have to touch - somehow affect your enjoyment of the game?

 

[giraffereyn]

Why is "I want a easy mode" more offensive than saying "I want a hard mode" to gamers?

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A lot of gamers are the kind of nerd that hate it when new people join their hobby.

 

[Deleted member 32374]

Is some of ya'lls goal to make people seem ableist for enjoying what they like?

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It isn't mine.

I got through all of the shit last week, took a self imposed vacation, I'm back to discuss this calmly.

 

[semiconscious]

man! as people continue to equate from/souls with sekiro. again: the souls games all have built-in 'easy modes': you can grind/over-level as much as you can stand, & you can summon help online (& i'm talking someone while will simply obliterate that challenging boss for you, with or without your help). unlike them, sekiro doesn't...

this isn't a from thing, & it's not a souls thing. it's strictly a sekiro thing :) ...

 

[Doctor Avatar]

A lot of gamers are the kind of nerd that hate it when new people join their hobby.

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Didn't I ask you to stop the ad hominem attacks?

 

[Deleted member 41520]

If you have chronic pain in your hands, don't play games that make you press buttons?

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Had a good chuckle at this. If we take "games" to refer to "videogames" on this board, what exactly do you suggest?

FROM doesn't want to include assist modes.

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Doesn't make it the right decision.

Seems to be working fine. The progression and accomplishment being gated by engagement and experimentation is clearly working if players who fail to engage on that level don't procede. It's not stated to be a free dopamine ride. It has expectations. Intentional ones.

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"Working fine" yeah, sure, and here we all are trying to explain how it would "Work better" with these modifications or options.

I can tell you having worked on many games that you lament and tear yourself up over every player who shelves or sells your game for whatever reason. It's not a nice thing to hear and is the very antithesis of what you want as a game developer. I very much doubt that Miyazaki et al are exempt from that. Miyazaki is not going to read a post in the OT where someone says "Genichiro pissed me off, I sold the game" and think "muhaha, just according to plan, another weakling consumer we don't need to worry about who won't buy our next game, excellent". They will definitely have wanted that person to keep playing and buy subsequent games because it is their business and craft and it is how they make money.

Also edited my post a bunch after you quoted it