Kotaku | Allegations Of Sexism, Bullying, And Burnout: Inside The Microsoft Studio Behind State Of Decay 3

[GaussianMultivariate]

What a shitshow, I loved sod2 and I'm looking forward to sod3 but this is highly disappointing. It's so infuriating I sometimes wish the anonymous interviewees would out the name of people like these just to shame them:

One former developer recalled men asking women to take notes during meetings, ignoring their expertise, and even making sexist remarks like, "You don't look as pretty as normal today," and "I'm surprised a girl like you has this job."

I mean I don't think a witch hunt is a healthy thing but fuck these people

 

[Yuuber]

That's horrible. If we start digging, I'm sure there are many many more stories to be told in the industry.

Don't worry guys, Microsoft will fix Activision Blizzard.

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Yes, with Bobby leading them into a new period.

 

[RR30]

Agree. I don't think Microsoft thinks being hands off with AB will work, but if they would MS would be extremely dumb and naive.

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Microsoft acquired a ton of studios close to each other and if I had to guess it was probably just easier to sign the checks and stay out of the way. Clearly that's not been the best strategy. It seems like in this case they started to pay more attention (albeit too late for some). I would think (hope?) with the scale of the acquisition Activision is and repeated instances of problems going on they will know better. Guess we'll find out.

 

[Noog]

Microsoft acquired a ton of studios close to each other and if I had to guess it was probably just easier to sign the checks and stay out of the way. Clearly that's not been the best strategy. It seems like in this case they started to pay more attention (albeit too late for some). I would think (hope?) with the scale of the acquisition Activision is and repeated instances of problems going on they will know better. Guess we'll find out.

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The big issue with Microsoft being too "hands on" during the 360 and Xbox One days was that they would kind of force their studios into boxes - they had the Halo team, the Forza team, and the Gears team, and they weren't supposed to leave their box.


It seems that they've given their teams more creative freedom, but they also have far too many studios to manage, so it's gone beyond creative control and basically become "do your own thing", which allows issues like this to arise. They need to find a way to balance the two.

 

[Mister_X]

This industry is really disgusting. Microsoft needs to find a middle ground to their approach of handling these studios. I just fear that they will have too many studios to make sure this shit doesn't continue

 

[Captain of Outer Space]

I'm sure the expanded scopes of games and teams doesn't help with the culture of these studios, as more people invites more potential bad apples to spoil the bunch. Good managers are key to helping keep the ship sailing smoothly and it's easier to fuck that up than get it right.

 

[Strat]

MS being so afraid of that whole "Big MS money came in and ruined the culture of the studio" headline that they go too far in the opposite direction, to the detriment of both the projects and the people who work on them.

 

[Nif]

They need to get a handle on when to disrupt work culture. They obviously don't want this kind of PR.

 

[Deleted member 68874]

Gross. That Holt guy seems like he should be unemployed in the next couple of days.

Hopefully the culture at UL can get fixed.

 

[Cranster]

Yeah in this situation Microsoft needs to be more hands on. If the developers work culture includes sexism and other negative behavior then it doesn't deserve to be protected.

 

[Barbarossa]

And that's the issue with a hands off approach when acquiring small to medium size studios. This shit isn't acceptable. I hope they know the clusterfuck they're in for with AB.

 

[Kittenz]

MS being so afraid of that whole "Big MS money came in and ruined the culture of the studio" headline that they go too far in the opposite direction, to the detriment of both the projects and the people who work on them.

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It's really a tough balancing act here, though.

The employees don't want MS to come in and change things, but in the end they needed MS to come in and change things. If you move on anything too soon...problems. But if too late....problems. Especially when they were sort at the starting line of "Acquistion-palooza" - the last thing they needed was the rep of being heavy-handed.

You add in the fact that HR woman and Lead guy were semingly lying/confuscating the evidence -- not reporting violations and/or bugs and progress -- in order to look good for the higher ups. That makes it pretty hard.

Add in the fact that the majority of the time they've owned them has been pandemic, making it harder to replace people because hiring's tough -- and harder to investigate (as the office climate didn't exist in the same way). You can't drop in on an online office.

I dunno. Obviously I wasn't there, but this seems like two horrible leaders replacing a stronger one and everyone suffering the repercussions. MS certainly needs mentioning in association, but this strikes me as a more targeted issue within Undead leadership than a systemic one with MS - or even the studio as a whole. UL is a part of MS, but I'm not sure I put MS in the headline in this case. As others have said, it certainly appears things started turning around once MS stepped in.

The fact that there were so many people feeling ok to lodge the complaints in real time in the first place also has something positive to say about the Undead Labs studio prior to the new leaders. Otherwise, in other cases we see a lot of it coming out after the folks leave or someone with clout speaking on their behalf.

I'm conflicted on this one.

 

[Khanimus]

It's like we're getting this kind of news every other day now. Wtf is wrong with this industry? Is there a solution?

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This is cultural - it's perpetuated not just by the people being accused, but those who allow it to happen. And just replacing those guilty parties doesn't mean these instances won't occur by others that don't see anything wrong with their actions

 

[YukiroCTX]

Pretty bad it devolved to this state ms needs to work out few things to prevent it happening again. At the very least MS intervened so didn't exactly ignore the problem given the current response which is much more positive but With MS getting much much larger preventive measures need to be better and complete hands off I don't think is a way to deal with that. I think at some point MS do need to get a bit more involved to what's happening.

 

[Quinton]

Well, that's fucked.

 

[Iwao]

The way corporate acquisitions are celebrated while all sorts of terrible behaviour is happening behind the scenes at these places and the companies that absorb them really have no intention of doing much about it...

Hopefully that changes.

 

[Maximo]

People expecting MS to come in like a Fairy godmother and just *Save* Activision is pretty depressing. MS and it's studios has its own fair share of blantant sexist and racist issues.

 

[pswii60]

Between this and Perfect Dark's situation (obviously a different story), people are really critical of Microsoft's hands-off approach.

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It's a difficult line to tread. The failures of previous studios have been said to be a result of struggling to fit creatives in to MS more rigid corporate culture. But here we seemingly have the opposite problem. Some might say MS can't win, but it doesn't have to be all one way or the other. There needs to be a balance and the approach needs to be different for each studio depending on their needs, challenges and issues. Here, there have been clear failures as MS didn't recognise or resolve issues that were already present. If anything it'll tell them they need to speak to employees at all levels in their newly acquired studios going forward and not just higher management.

im just wondering, why are there no neutral third party companies (like HR) that serve as a bridge between Microsoft/Sony and the studios.
Give people a safe space where they can report without worrying that the higher ups will learn about it.
Give the the neutral third party companie enough power to act and investigate this situations and in worst case report to Microsoft or Sony that shit needs to be done.

am i too naive to think this could work?

even in my own company the HR/Complaint department is inside the building and you see those people drinking coffee and hanging out with our chefs. Like wtf

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A union.

 

[Kyra]

At the very least it's good that all of these instances are keep coming to light. The industry needs a shakeup.

 

[Captain Tuttle]

Microsoft should know better, they need to get these studios in line, crack some heads

 

[Scottoest]

Noticing a running theme recently that Microsoft might need to exert more control and oversight of their studios.

One former developer recalled men asking women to take notes during meetings, ignoring their expertise, and even making sexist remarks like, "You don't look as pretty as normal today," and "I'm surprised a girl like you has this job."

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Who talks to people like this.

 

[Deleted member 27751]

These stories just keep reiterating to me that the industry is fucked in large scale groups due to difficult diverse opinions and interactions. As soon as you have enough people to create a mixed background of mental and physical aspects, it just seems unfortunately natural for dickheads to come through thinking they can be horrible. Is it the natural toxicity of game development having been so male centric? This idea that only men/boys play video games because the vast representation was male?

I'm just glad that I at the very least have common sense to these approaches and realise that if there are problems, fucking fix them. Inappropriate work behaviour is the most toxic shit ever, no one should ever feel like their place of work is a den of hate and hurt. Of course, I know that's easy to say as I'm first a white male, but secondly it is easier said then done.

It's quite clearly prolific across all of the industry, be it small or large studio. Microsoft, Sony, Nintendo (maybe?) are clearly not immune to this shit, and of course every individual developer and publisher is also not immune to it but also should not be stubborn to weeding out the horrible. Clearly many, possibly even myself, thought that Activision will be cleaned up because of Microsoft's assumed strong approach to inclusion and the public nature of their shit practices. Whether that is still going to happen who knows, but it's clear that this industry needs a deep fucking clean.

 

[Prine]

MS being so afraid of that whole "Big MS money came in and ruined the culture of the studio" headline that they go too far in the opposite direction, to the detriment of both the projects and the people who work on them.

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Ehhh not really, trusting people to behave isn't going in the opposite direction. Ultimately shows that some leadership do need to be monitored and a hands off approach isn't the utopia people here and elsewhere think all need to achieve. Hands off for someone like Double Fine was an absolute boon to the workers and their product. Good news is that from the story seems to be impactful changes coming through, but yeah, we need to give up on trusting everyone by default to do a good job.

 

[Deleted member 93062]

Microsoft should know better, they need to get these studios in line, crack some heads

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Seems like that more or less happened in the past few months. The head of HR at Undead left shortly after Microsoft HR got involved and they replaced the entire leadership team.

 

[Strat]

Ehhh not really, trusting people to behave isn't going in the opposite direction. Ultimately shows that some leadership do need to be monitored and a hands off approach isn't the utopia people here and elsewhere think all need to achieve. Hands off for someone like Double Fine was an absolute boon to the workers and their product. Good news is that from the story seems to be impactful changes coming through, but yeah, we need to give up on trusting everyone by default to do a good job.

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Yeah, it works when you've got someone as quality as TS at the lead. I think MS needs to be more hands on in the beginning to make sure that kind of leadership is in place before letting them lose.

And you're right, the good news is it seems like they've begun to make changes. That's the important part.

 

[Trunchisholm]

This is some messed up shit. The VG industry is seriously rotten to the core. I can't comprehend why some find it so hard to treat women and minorities with dignity and value their work and input.

If MS is serious about change, they need to conduct inquiries into every single of the studios they've acquired in the last few years and weed out all the bad actors, particularly those in leadership positions and HR. I can't imagine what they'll need to do with Activision after the acquisition is completed to turn their company culture around.

 

[tok9]

One former developer recalled men asking women to take notes during meetings, ignoring their expertise, and even making sexist remarks like, "You don't look as pretty as normal today," and "I'm surprised a girl like you has this job."

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Seriously just who the hell says this kind of shit. How is there so many people who're okay saying something like this, just so wrong.

 

[Deleted member 68874]

Fuck Holt and those at Xbox that have enabled him and continue to enable him to fester a workplace of discrimination and abuse.

 

[ThereAreFourNaan]

A very unfortunate situation. It sounds like there are a few positive signs (particularly if Microsoft is conducting new surveys right now) but still substantial work to do.

Seriously just who the hell says this kind of shit.

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Who talks to people like this.

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People who read The Game.

 

[Ambient]

Microsoft has to come in and bust some heads. Get things in order because these stories are disgusting.

 

[Khanimus]

People who read The Game.

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God, do people still read that fucking shit?

 

[ThereAreFourNaan]

God, do people still read that fucking shit?

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People who read it when it was popular are now in their 30's and 40's and that kind of advice about negging isn't only limited to people who read it directly. There are definitely some people out there who think it's good advice to give women simultaneous insults/complements as part of a strategy to get in their pants.

But who knows - we only have contextless quotes. Maybe that wasn't what they were trying to do. Maybe they were just assholes with no particular agenda.

 

[BBboy20]

Talk about a state of decay.

 

[arsene_P5]

People expecting MS to come in like a Fairy godmother and just *Save* Activision is pretty depressing. MS and it's studios has its own fair share of blantant sexist and racist issues.

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I think you are right that MS has issues as visible with this article. However they did step in at last, which is something the AB board and Kotick never (really) did. I think we have to wait and see whether MS can convincingly do something against the very toxic culture at AB. Having said that I do have more faith in MS to steer the ship than Kotick.

 

[Pyro]

Read this earlier and it sounds like a shitshow. Hopefully that HR person and MS seemingly becoming more hands-on will lead to some change but the fact of the matter is the studio head is still there and so I'm not holding my breath.

 

[Scratches]

MS (and specifically Xbox), just like basically all game and tech companies, has its own long history of serious problems with sexism and abuse. They have made solid progress on this front in the last few years (and it's because of those efforts that things seemed to have started improving at UL), but these stories unfortunately shouldn't surprise anyone.

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We seem to close our eyes regarding this issue because... it's not part of the Current Narrative™? I guess? But yup.

Microsoft investigating sexual harassment claims overlooked by HR | Quartz

Another said that she had been called a "bitch" at work more than once, and found it was pervasive in the company. "We did a roundtables with the women when I was in Xbox core [team] & every woman, except for 1, had been called a bitch at work," the Microsoft employee wrote. "Before people say this is just an Xbox thing (as I've heard that dismissiveness way too many times within Microsoft before) the other eng [engineering] orgs where my experiences happened were Windows & Azure. This is a Microsoft thing, a common one."

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"As a Microsoft Partner, was asked to sit on someone's lap twice in one meeting in front of HR and other executives," she wrote. "I can assure you that nothing was done. I alone objected and cited Microsoft policy. The person said that he did not have to listen and repeated the request a second time. No one said anything."

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Microsoft discrimination: women say the company is a toxic place to work | Vox

One of the most alarming complaints came from a woman who said a contractor threatened to kill her on a business trip if she didn't perform a sexual act on him. When she told her boss, she said he brushed it off and described it as "flirting." When she went to human resources, she said a manager told her there was nothing the company could do about it.

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One woman said a coworker had twice asked her to sit in his lap at a meeting, and a human resources manager in the room did nothing.

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Arjuna Capital Shareholder Resolution: Microsoft Needs Independent and Transparent Investigation of Gender Discrimination, Sexual Harassment | Business Wire

Natasha Lamb, managing partner, Arjuna Capital, said: "Microsoft is under intense public scrutiny due to numerous claims of sexual harassment and an alleged failure to address them adequately and transparently. Reports of Bill Gates' alleged inappropriate relationships and sexual advances towards Microsoft employees have only exacerbated concerns, putting in question the culture set by top leadership, and the board's role holding those culpable accountable. Investors are concerned Microsoft may be facing a culture of systemic sexual harassment, putting at risk the company's ability to attract and retain talent."

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[Maximo]

I think you are right that MS has issues as visible with this article. However they did step in at last, which is something the AB board and Kotick never (really) did. I think we have to wait and see whether MS can convincingly do something against the very toxic culture at AB. Having said that I do have more faith in MS to steer the ship than Kotick.

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Sure but we now have two instances of multiple allegations and stories from two studios MS has heavily promoted and advertised in their lineup, conferences, and Gamepass. And of course MS as a company itself has issues, they might help the biggest problems but to help tackle these every day issues the gaming industry at large needs unions, which sadly I don't see ever happening.

 

[Fabs]

Gross. I'm glad people finally feel comfortable speaking out. No excuses this needs to be better and MS is the management now. They need to be better or be held accountable. Hands off isn't great either.

 

[arsene_P5]

And of course MS as a company itself has issues, they might help the biggest problems but to help tackle these every day issues the gaming industry at large needs unions, which sadly I don't see ever happening.

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I believe the gaming community in america needs to come together and pressure the government to make urgent and necessary changes. Without the government most companies likely won't allow unions, which is a shame. So the solution with a broad reach has to be pressuring the government to make laws for unions, so the companies have no choice.

 

[T0kenAussie]

I believe the gaming community in america needs to come together and pressure the government to make urgent and necessary changes. Without the government most companies likely won't allow unions, which is a shame. So the solution with a broad reach has to be pressuring the government to make laws for unions, so the companies have no choice.

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I think MS would be smart to make a competitive union for its employees to not only retain the talent it has but also attract talent in a heavily competitive sector that is employee driven right now.

I dunno why Americans are against them in earnest in Australia our laws revolve around collective bargaining in sectors with a regulatory body approving or challenging bargaining agreements. The only bad part about it in me experience is that unions can use that power to change CBAs even if you are happy with the trajectory of the current one and you don't have to be a union member to be effected by the changes, there's no distinction between union and non union employees really but overall it gives us quite a raft of benefits imo.

 

[cyrribrae]

Terrible and absolutely demands attention from MS.

I don't like these "no more hands off management!" takes, though. What do people think this means? Like, should MS HR sit in on every meeting? Should they be there physically with the studio? Should they be involved in major studio decisions? So basically.. they should be the studio HR that MS has hired to take care of HR issues.. exactly as designed and as it is now. The fact that the policies, procedures, and rules were not followed by the leadership at the studio does not mean the policies, procedures, and rules are wrong.

The solution, IMO, is not that MS now needs to go around and stare over the shoulder of all of their teams (this would be literally impossible), but on providing alternative and legitimate avenues for employees to bypass structures that are being perverted at their studio. Therefore, there are ways to empower employees to hold their managers accountable in reasonable and non-disruptive ways, but that critically do not put themselves at the mercy of the very people who are incentivized to downplay issues. That group has to live separately from the studios and report directly to leadership, so that they have the power to investigate and to make recommendations to (and be taken seriously by) XGS or Xbox leadership.

 

[Dabcelwero25]

From stories I've heard, people doing drugs at the workplace, bringing sex workers during events in the workplace... Stories of the explosive growth of this industry are wild.

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That looks like a scene out of the Wolf of Wall Street.

Jesus Christ.

 

[SinnyIndonesian]

We seem to close our eyes regarding this issue because... it's not part of the Current Narrative™? I guess? But yup.

Microsoft investigating sexual harassment claims overlooked by HR | Quartz



Microsoft discrimination: women say the company is a toxic place to work | Vox



Arjuna Capital Shareholder Resolution: Microsoft Needs Independent and Transparent Investigation of Gender Discrimination, Sexual Harassment | Business Wire

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Not just core Microsoft, their other branches also have a history of problems:

Xbox Brasil dismisses new host after she was the victim of death and rape threats

Former Mixer Employee Calls Out Racism In Management

Their official responses have always been weak, but this Undead Labs one is just... come on:

Microsoft contends that it has invested in diversity and inclusion at Undead Labs and cites as proof that it is now 32% female or non-binary and 20% non-white as compared to 15% female and 12% non-white at the time of the acquisition.

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Also, this part doesn't seem to bode well for those hoping MS will fix Activision:

It remains to be seen if Microsoft's approach to Undead Labs will prove the exception, or the canary in the coal mine. "There was no visible intervention or support from [Microsoft]," recalled one former developer. "Nothing ever improved from my perspective, things just got worse."

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[pswii60]

I think MS would be smart to make a competitive union for its employees to not only retain the talent it has but also attract talent in a heavily competitive sector that is employee driven right now.

I dunno why Americans are against them in earnest in Australia our laws revolve around collective bargaining in sectors with a regulatory body approving or challenging bargaining agreements. The only bad part about it in me experience is that unions can use that power to change CBAs even if you are happy with the trajectory of the current one and you don't have to be a union member to be effected by the changes, there's no distinction between union and non union employees really but overall it gives us quite a raft of benefits imo.

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It's sadly no surprise the US and its big corps fear unions. Unions increase employee rights and benefits, drive wage growth, reduce hours worked/crunch, increase the likelihood of walkouts/strikes, make it difficult to fire underperformers etc. You think they want any of that? They look at highly unionised counties like France and tremble. They don't want to have to treat employees with that level of respect, only their shareholders.

 

[lvl 99 Pixel]

Wasn't Microsoft just voted best place to work? Maybe that didn't include their games division...

 

[elenarie]

That looks like a scene out of the Wolf of Wall Street.

Jesus Christ.

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It is basically what happens when nerds are given A LOT of money that they don't know what to do with, and are enabled to step out of their shells. When you make an introvert basically a rockstar over night, things can spiral out of control.

Such behaviour, however, is far far far less likely to be seen today. These are just stories from many years ago.

 

[Cthulhu_Steev]

I definitely get that, problem is that Phil or Booty seems to treat every single one of their studios with the same hands off approach. It's very clear that some studios need to be managed more, especially when there are accusations and when they don't deliver after so many years.

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Sorry, but there's no 'hands-off' approach to this - Spencer and Booty are basically saying 'nothing to do with us, it's internal issues' and that is pretty shameful after the 'we're inclusive' PR they spout. They're under the umbrella of a parent company just voted one of the best places work, and it's their responsibly to fix.

Gaming software companies can be hands-off with the development if they want, but not with the pastoral care of staff working for them, especially with so much industry consolidation going on.

If they think they can just silo the problem developers off like this, it doesn't bode well for ABK, I'm afraid.

I hate how these threads always turn into console wars bs while trying to act upset about this but not when their favourite studio has these issues, either call it all out or don't. All studios need a check honestly and it's probably almost guaranteed that all studios have this issue. I hope this stuff keeps coming out over the entire industry to weed out the bad eggs so we can have an inclusive, safe and vibrant workplace for these amazing people who make the stuff we love.

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Not sure where you're seeing it here, but if you are report it.

 

[Kill3r7]

Microsoft has to address the underlying issues and find a better approach to managing the new studios they acquire. They can't be completely hands off.

 

[Cthulhu_Steev]

Game developers really need to unionise. I know it doesn't solve the issues, but it might lead to best practice for all companies to give them something to build around. The gamer culture is just fucked though, so I don't even think it's fixable. Humanity seems to be heading downhill in everyway at the moment, I think the window for fixing us has passed, sadly.

 

[TheodoreXGolbez]

What the fuck is wrong with the gaming industry with sexually assault , Jesus Christ .

It's not even an issues some bad apples in the industry ; this shit is widespread .