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Jroc

Banned
Jun 9, 2018
6,145
This, this, this. That 15,000,000 signing bonus could have been a year's work for 100 employees at $150,000 a year or 200 at $75,000 a year. Insane.

If the Blizzard eSports department is in the red or has a negligible ROI, then should the company be expected to keep them around for no particular reason? Yeah they could strip a bunch of cash from other things to perpetually prop up unprofitable business ventures, but it would basically be the private equivalent of a make-work program.
 

Thornquist

Member
Jan 22, 2018
1,499
Norway
J Allan Brack, the no you don't want classic wow guy. I already miss Mike Morhaime.
J Brack is a puppet. The CEO role disappeared with Morhaime. The man pulling the strings at Blizzard now is
Allen Adham. Guaranteed.
Research that name, and rejoice. I mean that.
If the Blizzard eSports department is in the red or has a negligible ROI, then should the company be expected to keep them around for no particular reason? Yeah they could strip a bunch of cash from other things to perpetually prop up unprofitable business ventures, but it would basically be the private equivalent of a make-work program.
Basically this. I get being disgusted by how large companies work, but people here are being too dramatic.
 

Sheepinator

Member
Jul 25, 2018
27,950
Noobie question, but why are news of layoffs in video game companies so prevalent in the Western industry but extremely rare in the Japanese one? It's weird considering the former is various orders of magnitude much bigger.
Isn't there a cultural difference there? I've heard stories of people being put in a corner with nothing to do, hoping they choose to resign eventually. The biggest thing is how many AAA games are there from Japan? I think most of the game development is in mobile or first party funded by Sony and Nintendo, so the publishers don't have as many huge bets and massive teams compared to the West, and the risk which comes from that.
 

Goldenroad

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Nov 2, 2017
9,475
it's not a matter of "unionization would have been the magic bullet this time" it's the fact that this shit KEEPS HAPPENING, over and over, and workers have no power to stop it. The ball needs to get rolling now. It's never a convenient time to start unionizing, that's why it's so important. Until any bargaining power exists at all, all devs and workers are at the behest of the companies they work for.

I guess my point is that once you're unionized you're still at the behest of the company you work for. You can still be laid off no matter how strong your union is. I explained, imo, the benefits of unionizing, and I agree that they should, but I'm just saying, it's not going to prevent layoffs from happening. No company would ever sign a collective bargaining agreement that it, under no circumstance, can lay off any of it's staff. There are MANY strong arguments for this industry unionizing, but preventing layoffs is not one of those arguments. This is a topic that should be prevalent in threads about new studios starting up, or new employees being hired on at development studios, not topics about people being laid off because that's literally the only time it's too late to do anything about it.
 

Dartastic

One Winged Slayer
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,779
If the Blizzard eSports department is in the red or has a negligible ROI, then should the company be expected to keep them around for no particular reason? Yeah they could strip a bunch of cash from other things to perpetually prop up unprofitable business ventures, but it would basically be the private equivalent of a make-work program.
It depends, honestly. It depends on what they're trying to accomplish. It's not irregular for things to run in the red while they're starting up. eSports stuff is definitely a growing thing.

That being said, companies that post record profits don't really layoff ten percent of their workforce either.
 

Hasseigaku

Member
Oct 30, 2017
3,538
It blows my mind that so many people have so little empathy for the people who lost their jobs and instead nod their head at this because termination helps profits.
 

matimeo

UI/UX Game Industry Veteran
Verified
Oct 26, 2017
979
Also Blizzard is a decent company employees cost more than just their base salary. Add another 20k on for robust health benefits and perks.
 

Deleted member 5491

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,249
I don't know why people are calling for unionization over this
Maybe to have more clarification about what the company is doing, how early they have to announce these lay-offs so that these workers, these human being with families have time to search for a new job without getting worried about pay.
So that workers have a say in some desicion making that ia effecting the workers, that they don't have to go to crunch for month and so on.
Why is that so hard to understand?
 

Leviathan

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
2,065
Let this be a lesson to us all. Support a small dev- that dev grows and hires more staff. Support a large dev- execs get multimillion dollar bonuses, your support doesn't make a dent in unrealistic shareholder expectations, and nonunion employees get fired. Any time you are torn between two games you want and have to choose, think about where your money is going and what impact it can have.
You know large devs usually start as soon as small devs, right? It's a pretty basic progression.
 

Odesu

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,539
It kinda has to be that way. Sometimes people react violently when laid off. If given notice others will slack off or sabotage during their remaining time. My wife's old company laid off the IT department on a Monday (outsourced it) but had them finish out their week. Needless to say, the company's internal server and website ended up going down for several days after they left.

I believe unemployment benefits are intended to cover living expenses during the transition period.


Just laying people off and making them leave the building on the same day is literally illegal in many western european countries. Framing this as a natural thing that just "has to be that way" is completely insane, dude.

In germany we have a "Kündigungsfrist" by law of at least 4 weeks. Making it illegal to fire your employee with a notice of less than 4 weeks. The longer you worked for the company, the longer that minimal notice is. If you want to fire someone who has been working 20 years at your company, you have to give him a notice of at least seven months. Yup. Months.

The way employees don't have any rights in the US and their employers are seen as benefactors "allowing" them to work, holding all the power in the relationship is utterly inconceivable to me and a clear and obvious example for why unions are so desparetely needed.
 

Peleo

Member
Nov 2, 2017
2,656

Pryme

Member
Aug 23, 2018
8,164
It makes me sick thinking of employees all year crunching to get games out, working overtime to fix bugs, artists working weekends to finish projects. etc etc.

insane hours and demands while making the stock holders record profits only to be let go. While the CFO gets a 15 million dollar bonus.

that's how business works because we let it, they need to unionize.

Wait, you think unions prevent top level execs from being paid bonuses commensurate with industry norms?

Or that unionization means employees are guaranteed jobs for life?

My word!

Unions can prevent frivolous terminations and Fight for decent severance packages. But that's no job guarantee.
 

vegohead

Member
Oct 27, 2017
175
personally when i hear that people are in tears at potentially losing their livliehood despite the fact that they contributed to a company that just made record profits in the billions instead of responding with empathy and compassion i like to blame them instead. it feels good to me

Wow, do you really think aerozombie gets pleasure from this? Projecting much?
 

dodo

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,997
I guess my point is that once you're unionized you're still at the behest of the company you work for. You can still be laid off no matter how strong your union is. I explained, imo, the benefits of unionizing, and I agree that they should, but I'm just saying, it's not going to prevent layoffs from happening. No company would ever sign a collective bargaining agreement that it, under no circumstance, can lay off any of it's staff. There are MANY strong arguments for this industry unionizing, but preventing layoffs is not one of those arguments. This is a topic that should be prevalent in threads about new studios starting up, or new employees being hired on at development studios, not topics about people being laid off because that's literally the only time it's too late to do anything about it.

fuck man it's better to do something than nothing at all
 

GraveRobberX

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,056
I just don't know how record numbers equal to layoffs?

The corporate system is broken.

It's not only video game companies

Just look at any company that's just stagnant in whatever they sell
First thing corporate does, slash jobs

It's the fastest way to tip the scale and books in your favor, investors see it as "confidence" or "righting the ship"

Problem is most upper management have such sweetheart deals, up to the Golden Parachute clause in contract, so the Fuck You, Got Mines mentality breeds greed

I know this derails the process a bit and people lost jobs but corporate America has fucking opioid companies paying their CEOs absurd amount of extra bonuses while there's an opioid crisis and lives being lost left and right
60 minutes even did a huge thing on it, yet stock is up, opioids are being sold cheaper and quicker than fucking candy at even $0.05 price for a kid with a dollar in their hand.

It's not only the system, but ethics of it all also

There's a reason why American side of Activ jobs are getting slashed hella quick while overseas Activ has to be a wait and see due to strong EU regulations on firings and mass job loss
 

aerozombie

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,075
Maybe to have more clarification about what the company is doing, how early they have to announce these lay-offs so that these workers, these human being with families have time to search for a new job without getting worried about pay.
So that workers have a say in some desicion making that ia effecting the workers, that they don't have to go to crunch for month and so on.
Why is that so hard to understand?
They are getting severance and I haven't seen anything that would indicate this lay-off is immediate.
 

Goldenroad

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Nov 2, 2017
9,475
fuck man it's better to do something than nothing at all

I agree. I didn't say anything to contradict that. I'm just saying, the threads about MS or Sony's or Nintendo's first party studios is where this discussion should be happening non-stop. Unionization would not have prevented these layoffs, or any, but it can lead to a better life for the people who are currently employed in this industry.
 

finalflame

Product Management
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
8,538
It depends, honestly. It depends on what they're trying to accomplish. It's not irregular for things to run in the red while they're starting up. eSports stuff is definitely a growing thing.

That being said, companies that post record profits don't really layoff ten percent of their workforce either.
There's lots of reasons to lay people off. Roughly 50% of the team I had just joined at a major gaming company was laid off just 2 weeks after I started (I was not laid off) because the company had lowered the hiring bar when their strategy for a particular problem was different, then when the strategy changed and they decided to go a different route with how to handle the work, they did not want to keep people they had lowered the bar for on because it went against the cultural beliefs of the company.

I can assure you in that scenario it was not a matter of money -- the company I'm talking about does not have a money problem and is entirely privately owned. It stayed out of the press because they are good about not entertaining the gaming media's toxic news cycle and also because people leaving got a very generous severance to make up for it.

It is what it is my man.
 

Sheepinator

Member
Jul 25, 2018
27,950
someone enlighten me, please: why the heck did Blizzard ever join Activision?!
"Blizzard" didn't join Activision. They were founded in 1991 and acquired in 1994 for $6.75M, then that parent company was acquired in 1996, then that parent company merged to form another company in 1997, then that division including Blizzard was acquired by another company in 1998, then also in 1998 that company was acquired by Vivendi, where Blizzard stayed until the Activision-Blizzard merger in 2008.
 

Deleted member 35598

User requested account closure
Banned
Dec 7, 2017
6,350
Spain
Those things are just wrong. Some people are losing their jobs while those guys at the top are making millions literally. And they're going to have good sleep. Makes you wanna puke.
 

Border

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,859
Noobie question, but why are news of layoffs in video game companies so prevalent in the Western industry but extremely rare in the Japanese one? It's weird considering the former is various orders of magnitude much bigger.
Japanese development/publishing community has already gone through periods of contraction and shed a lot of jobs and positions. There were probably quite a few mergers when companies like Sega/Sammy and Square/Enix merger.

Square-Enix cut IO Software loose pretty recently, and had layoffs as recently as 2013. Capcom shut down their Vancouver Studio like 4 months ago. Konami has obviously shuttered their entire console publishing division. Pick a Japanese publisher and Google "<publisher name> layoffs" and you will probably turn up something.
 

Deleted member 5491

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,249
They are getting severance and I haven't seen anything that would indicate this lay-off is immediate.
People are getting told today that they are laid off as of today. Look up the tweets that are coming in.
The same people heard these rumors since November with nobody of the higher ups telling them anything, without talking to them to maybe relocate
those people in other teams or getting a compromise, so that fewer had to leave.
 

Odesu

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,539
There's lots of reasons to lay people off. Roughly 50% of the team I had just joined at a major gaming company was laid off just 2 weeks after I started (I was not laid off) because the company had lowered the hiring bar when their strategy for a particular problem was different, then when the strategy changed and they decided to go a different route with how to handle the work, they did not want to keep people they had lowered the bar for on because it went against the cultural beliefs of the company.

I can assure you in that scenario it was not a matter of money -- the company I'm talking about does not have a money problem and is entirely privately owned. It stayed out of the press because they are good about not entertaining the gaming media's toxic news cycle and also because people leaving got a very generous severance to make up for it.

It is what it is my man.


Calling the "news cycle" that is reporting on constant and regular layoffs "toxic" instead of the...you know...constant and regular layoffs is quite a take, dude.

Your company sounds like it's terribly managed and the fact that the people they hired had to lose their jobs because the management just decided that they wanted to "change the strategy" and that the people who possibly just moved across the country for that terribly thought out strategy aren't a good fit for the "cultural beliefs" of the company is a pretty clear sign that employees need more protection from getting chewed out and abused by these terrible managers, who have to suffer literally zero negative consequences for their incompetence.
 
Oct 27, 2017
7,972
There is no source, but why would a corporation do more than the minimum they have to do, and given that executive bonuses are tied to performance they are going to be motivated to spend as little as possible in order to try and make their numbers next year.

I hear you, it happens though. My wife worked for a company for almost 25 years, they closed her office and she got 47 weeks severance based on her accumulated time. Public company too
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,293
People cry over lost jobs all the time, what makes this particularly special? Because it was their dream company? It sucks for the people losing their jobs, but nothing of this reeks of bad judgement or design. Bungie is better of separate, HOTS doesn't do well, and if anything customer service should have been consolidated years ago.
Fucking disgusting post. You are so desensitized to people getting their lives fucked over by capitalism that it suddenly has to be "special" in order to be noteworthy? I do agree that singling out Activision Blizzard is missing the point but there should be calls for massive societal reform and severe jail time for any and all tax evasion, not calls for things like unionization being pointless.
 
Oct 27, 2017
4,018
Florida
15 millions is like 30k for 500 employees a year.

Average cost to staff and maintain those positions is probably much closer to 80,000-90,000 a year when you factor in total compensation such as healthcare, disability, unemployment, etc.

For non Americans and younger folks here: I personally pay over $7,200 a year for healthcare for me, my wife and 1 child. My employer pays another $17,000 per year to cover the rest of it. This is a PPO with a $1,500 personal, 5K family deductible. So after all the insurance paid I STILL foot the bill for the first $1,500 minimum.

There's also another 5k for retirement plan contributions a year.