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MBS

Member
Oct 25, 2017
733
When i was a child i used to have these horror dreams of being trapped in long dark hallways of familiar places, my home or my grandparents home. Then on top of that i would be chased from the same lunatic guy every time, then as he approached me i would freeze on the spot not able to do anything. More like a sleep paralysis type of thing, than an actual dream. The feeling was just absolutely terrifying at the time.

That EXACT same feeling i got when i first played P.T back in 2014. The familiar image of a typical middle-class house, before experiencing all the loops, bizzare sounds, and the creepy noises, all driving you crazy. When i booted the game again yesterday after a long period of time, i just got the same chills as if i was playing the game for the first time. One thing that stands out more than anything else in this demo, is the sound department. To me, they add to the horror/paranoia element more than the actual visual effects. All noises are so organic, thus making them x100 more scary than your typical horror game.

tl;dr, it's a fucking shame that Konami screwed Kojima the way they did. Him + Del Toro + the OG Silent Hill japanese team, had the opportunity of a lifetime to create the definite horror experience of all-time. I really feel lucky for not having deleted it
 
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Mikebison

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
11,036
PT is an over revered tech demo and marketing tool. Few jump scares but boring to 'play'. There's also zero indication that it was any way indicative of what Silent hills would've been.
 

signal

Member
Oct 28, 2017
40,186
I didn't like what I played of PT but I don't like horror games in general and never played Silent Hill.

If I didn't love the Metal Gear franchise these PT threads would probably drive me crazy lol. "wtf you kojima drones it's just a single hallway stop talking about it!!!!!!"
 

Deleted member 10737

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
49,774
PT is an over revered tech demo and marketing tool. Few jump scares but boring to 'play'. There's also zero indication that it was any way indicative of what Silent hills would've been.
this is how i feel tbh. i think the cancellation of the project and the delisting of the demo has kinda contributed to its status as this holy grail, a taste of what could have been, but honestly it's not that special. i don't like the word over-rated too much but it seems appropriate to use it for this.
 

Mikebison

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
11,036
this is how i feel tbh. i think the cancellation of the project and the delisting of the demo has kinda contributed to its status as this holy grail, a taste of what could have been, but honestly it's not that special. i don't like the word over-rated too much but it seems appropriate to use it for this.
Yeah, it's become what it is because of infamy. It lives long because of top 10 videos that will put it at number 2 most disappointing cancelled game, or number 3 scariest game ever and talk about how evil, evil Konami dashed Kojima's dreams.
 
Jun 4, 2018
1,129
PT is an over revered tech demo and marketing tool. Few jump scares but boring to 'play'. There's also zero indication that it was any way indicative of what Silent hills would've been.

To call it a tech demo is ludicrously reductive. This was a teaser from one of the most accomplished, decorated game designers the medium has ever seen, for what would have become the next installment in one of the lone, remaining staples of the horror genre. You take from entertainment what you will, but the point of PT isn't how PT plays. The purpose of PT is to, alongside others around the world, unearth the arguably best-kept secret in game development history. More importantly, it's anything but over-revered... Just because we get a thread on a gaming enthusiast forum every couple of months from singing its praises doesn't make it over-rated. It's revered appropriately and was one of the most effective marketing stunts gaming has ever delivered. It set out to generate excitement for the next title in the Silent Hill franchise - that title was scrapped, so what we are left with is the disappointment from the lack of that title's existence; that overwhelming, shared disappointment is proof that PT did its job and then some. If it didn't, people wouldn't care about its cancellation. That project, which would have attracted Kojima fans, Norman Reedus (and Walking Dead) fans, del Toro fans, and Silent Hill (game or, potentially, movie) fans, being scrapped was the final nail in the series' coffin. You can roll your eyes and say "Oh, evil Konami" as you do in your follow-up, but maybe you should ask yourself why that narrative even exists in the first place. Silent Hill will never see the light of day again - even as a cheap, Great Value take on its former glory a la Homecoming or Downpour, and PT is the reason why. I'll be excited to see which gacha game it ends up in by way of a chibi Pyramid Head cameo appearance, though.
 

Mikebison

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
11,036
To call it a tech demo is ludicrously reductive. This was a teaser from one of the most accomplished, decorated game designers the medium has ever seen, for what would have become the next installment in one of the lone, remaining staples of the horror genre. You take from entertainment what you will, but the point of PT isn't how PT plays. The purpose of PT is to, alongside others around the world, unearth the arguably best-kept secret in game development history. More importantly, it's anything but over-revered... Just because we get a thread on a gaming enthusiast forum every couple of months from singing its praises doesn't make it over-rated. It's revered appropriately and was one of the most effective marketing stunts gaming has ever delivered. It set out to generate excitement for the next title in the Silent Hill franchise - that title was scrapped, so what we are left with is the disappointment from the lack of that title's existence; that overwhelming, shared disappointment is proof that PT did its job and then some. If it didn't, people wouldn't care about its cancellation. That project, which would have attracted Kojima fans, Norman Reedus (and Walking Dead) fans, del Toro fans, and Silent Hill (game or, potentially, movie) fans, being scrapped was the final nail in the series' coffin. You can roll your eyes and say "Oh, evil Konami" as you do in your follow-up, but maybe you should ask yourself why that narrative even exists in the first place. Silent Hill will never see the light of day again - even as a cheap, Great Value take on its former glory a la Homecoming or Downpour, and PT is the reason why. I'll be excited to see which gacha game it ends up in by way of a chibi Pyramid Head cameo appearance, though.
Look mate, I really like the MGS series, and Silent Hill. But I think you're going a bit overboard. Del Toro has never managed to get a game project off the ground, Kojima with the project management skills of a soggy piece of bread and little to no experience in horror, and an actor from a trash zombie show. Not exactly guaranteed for the stars to align like you suggest. I doubt Konami just threw a perfectly good project away for the sake of it, no matter how much of an evil illuminati Geoff Keighley wants everyone to believe they are.
 

The Silver

Member
Oct 28, 2017
10,711
Still the one piece of horror media to legitimately scare me since I was a kid. In my mind a nearly perfect horror experience in terms of instilling dread, of course it loses its effect when you run the hallways a billion times after you pass the red eyes and you're trying to actually "beat" the game but that doesn't take away from everything I felt.
 

wollywinka

Member
Feb 15, 2018
3,094
Part of PT's charm is that is a focused slice of something intended to be much larger. Whether the final game would have lived up to expectations, we'll now sadly never know.

For finished games that scared me, the original Dead Space gave me nightmares, and I was 40 years old when I played it. Lol.
 

ExaKel

Member
Feb 18, 2019
153
I think I still have the fan made Unreal PT somewhere :D

saving it for posterity hehe
 
Jun 4, 2018
1,129
Look mate, I really like the MGS series, and Silent Hill. But I think you're going a bit overboard. Del Toro has never managed to get a game project off the ground, Kojima with the project management skills of a soggy piece of bread and little to no experience in horror, and an actor from a trash zombie show. Not exactly guaranteed for the stars to align like you suggest. I doubt Konami just threw a perfectly good project away for the sake of it, no matter how much of an evil illuminati Geoff Keighley wants everyone to believe they are.

I just cannot wrap my head around where you're even coming from, here. "Never managed to get a game project off the ground?" What, in like two or three games? So, what? People will keep trying until it works, if they believe in him enough, and plenty of people will, if there's an opportunity that makes sense. If that's how you gauge the value of his management skills and it still leads to 93% critical appraisal and 5M+ units sold on a game that is widely-considered to be his weakest work of art, then I think most people in his position would be trying to manage as soggy pieces of bread, too... No experience in horror, though? Horror elements are present in nearly every single one of his games - forget PT. As far as TWD is concerned, your opinion of its quality has no bearing on its popularity, but even if it did, we're talking about 2014 Walking Dead, the show that was getting actors roles in a manner similar to Nino Brown passing out turkeys. You have to try way harder to pretend there isn't an audience who would follow that show's actors onto their successive roles, particularly to a brand as established as Silent Hill. If you want to place yourself on that island of defending Konami, be my guest. I'm not bothered ...but take Kojima out of the equation. You're going to tell me that all of those developers, employees, and entire studios were in the wrong with the way they were all unceremoniously axed? Geoff Keighley has a personal investment in that feud. He's allowed to feel how he wants. He's not indoctrinating anyone, last I checked. He's telling his side of the story - and if Konami cared to refute what he had to say, maybe people would have less of a reason to believe him. That's not really something I'm too interested in, either way, because trust me: I'm glad Kojima and Konami are no more. He's got the freedom to do what he wants with his game, and I can go wash my drawers at one of their laundromats or something.
 

Mikebison

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
11,036
I just cannot wrap my head around where you're even coming from, here. "Never managed to get a game project off the ground?" What, in like two or three games? So, what? People will keep trying until it works, if they believe in him enough, and plenty of people will, if there's an opportunity that makes sense. If that's how you gauge the value of his management skills and it still leads to 93% critical appraisal and 5M+ units sold on a game that is widely-considered to be his weakest work of art, then I think most people in his position would be trying to manage as soggy pieces of bread, too... No experience in horror, though? Horror elements are present in nearly every single one of his games - forget PT. As far as TWD is concerned, your opinion of its quality has no bearing on its popularity, but even if it did, we're talking about 2014 Walking Dead, the show that was getting actors roles in a manner similar to Nino Brown passing out turkeys. You have to try way harder to pretend there isn't an audience who would follow that show's actors onto their successive roles, particularly to a brand as established as Silent Hill. If you want to place yourself on that island of defending Konami, be my guest. I'm not bothered ...but take Kojima out of the equation. You're going to tell me that all of those developers, employees, and entire studios were in the wrong with the way they were all unceremoniously axed? Geoff Keighley has a personal investment in that feud. He's allowed to feel how he wants. He's not indoctrinating anyone, last I checked. He's telling his side of the story - and if Konami cared to refute what he had to say, maybe people would have less of a reason to believe him. That's not really something I'm too interested in, either way, because trust me: I'm glad Kojima and Konami are no more. He's got the freedom to do what he wants with his game, and I can go wash my drawers at one of their laundromats or something.
Geoff Keighley is a wet blanket concerning Kojima. Him near crying on stage acting as if Kojima's been kept at Guantanamo bay is hilariously cringe-worthy. Again, I love MGS, I and even like MGSV a lot, despite its flaws. But we might've got a complete get and a whole story if Kojima didn't fuck around spending millions of getting Sutherland to do the voice that somebody else had been doing for the previous 4 games at a 1/10th of the budget. So what does he do for his next project? Hire another celebrity actor because...why exactly? He's got a twitter crush on him or something. You're seeing all this play out again in Death Stranding (which may or may not be brilliant, but no need for all the celebrity actors).
 
Jun 4, 2018
1,129
Geoff Keighley is a wet blanket concerning Kojima. Him near crying on stage acting as if Kojima's been kept at Guantanamo bay is hilariously cringe-worthy. Again, I love MGS, I and even like MGSV a lot, despite its flaws. But we might've got a complete get and a whole story if Kojima didn't fuck around spending millions of getting Sutherland to do the voice that somebody else had been doing for the previous 4 games at a 1/10th of the budget. So what does he do for his next project? Hire another celebrity actor because...why exactly? He's got a twitter crush on him or something. You're seeing all this play out again in Death Stranding (which may or may not be brilliant, but no need for all the celebrity actors).

Geoff Keighley can be however he wants to be. That's got nothing to do with me. I don't understand your fixation on this, nor where it even came from. Do you have a number to apply to your claim? To my knowledge, no monetary value has been specified as it pertains to the services of Sutherland. Moreover ...why, not? What if he feels having the actors he's sought out will elevate the quality of his work? As long as Sony doesn't mind, I don't see why it should bother any of us. You act like Kojima is wet behind the ears, breath smelling like Similac. He has been in a directorial role across damn-near four different decades, in a technology-based medium. Whether we like or dislike a given game, can we at least stop pretending he doesn't know what he's doing?
 

Dusk Golem

Local Horror Enthusiast
Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,804
I'm actually happy to see some people be more critical of PT. I think PT is a good horror experience, and I like it well enough. But I also think the thing is way over praised for what it actually is. And so many people calling PT the "best horror game" or stuff like that makes me roll my eyes and wonder how many horror games they've actually played, like seriously? It's not that it's bad, it's good, it's pretty well done for what it is. I also understand PT hit the PS4 in an era where horror games were relatively rare for the PS4, so those who only play games on consoles maybe it was the scariest thing in a long time. But as a horror enthusiast who plays these things on multiple platforms and follows the indie horror scene, PT is just a prettier version of an idea that existed in indie horror games freeware space before it. Now PT is a well done version of those ideas, but I also think it can only go "so far" with the type of experience it is. It reminded me most of the 2011 Russian Horror Game, The Corridor, which features you in a series of looping hotel hallways with things getting progressively worse, and the early 2014 Moon Sliver, which had a story about conspiracy and has a very similar, "LOOK BEHIND YOU," scene that predates PT.

As a horror enthusiast, I played PT before it was known it was a Silent Hills teaser or who was behind it. Not knowing anything and playing it, the ARG-like wall you eventually reach is good in retrospective but I think there's a big pacing problem in that the game goes from relatively straight-forward progression to sudden super cryptic bullshit that completely kills the pacing of the game. I know why it's there, but seriously the cryptic ARG stuff just sorta' happens and I do think is a detriment to the experience. I think most played the game knowing it was a hidden teaser, so the cryptic wall "makes sense", but imagine you don't know what this PT thing is and suddenly all the pacing gets stuck and you're going to solve puzzles with little to no clue how to progress after playing it for a while. It completely kills what the game sets-up, and most are okay with this because they "knew" what to expect before playing it because most weren't interested in it before it was known what it was. With this, when it was discovered to be a Silent Hill game, I'm going to be honest I was not enthralled. PT is good as like a high-budget take on a type of indie horror game, but nothing in the teaser is anything like Silent Hill, it's much more like a Hollywood horror film, which makes a lot of sense with the people behind it. Even when I was playing it not knowing what it was, I was thinking it had inspiration from "Mama" (which Del Toro helped work on and realize), and Eraserhead, and the timing of the scares were very much like a Hollywood horror film, IE there was a bit too much cleanness to how it paced itself which made it really predictable, still well done, but the pacing and beats it goes by have a big rhythm to them. So both learning this was supposed to be a Silent Hill game teaser, and Kojima was behind it and making Norman Reedus the main character, I felt just showed very clearly this was going to be more Kojima and Del Toro's horror game rather than a thing that actually felt like Silent Hill, and that'd come with all the Kojima-isms like the game featuring all of Kojima's Hollywood Friends (which is bad for a series supposed to be about normal people), overtly long cutscenes, conspiracy plots (this part I was fine with), and probably put too much Hollywood-isms into it and focus too much on scares and move away from the atmospheric ambience and mystery that fuels so many of the Silent Hill games, a weird mystical-ism. Now I realize at this point PT was supposed to be "not representative of the final game," but that's what I thought at the time, and that statement could literally mean anything.

I realize part of PT has been "enchanted" with being the "horror game you can no longer play" and being a small part of a game you'll never see, those make good taglines, but I really think PT is overblown. It's good, but I really question how many horror games, let alone horror games from the last 10 years and beyond the typical "Amnesia/Outlast/Layers of Fear/whatever" stuff that people have played. There's some truly excellent horror games out there from the last 10 years, that to see PT of all things, a good game but I don't think there's actually that much to it, it's good at being simple but effective but it's not something I'd personally list even in my top 30 horror game experiences, makes me a little sad. I really do believe most people played it after knowing Kojima was involved and it was a Silent Hills teaser, and I think that plays a big role into how it was remembered for what it was. That and I realize again it was on PS4, where most of the indie horror scene of recent years has been on PC, so I know it must've been many people's first exposure to the type of experimental freeware horror game design that is very present on PC but absent most everywhere else, it's a good type of that game but being the first for many I think does empower it further.
 

Mikebison

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
11,036
Geoff Keighley can be however he wants to be. That's got nothing to do with me. I don't understand your fixation on this, nor where it even came from. Do you have a number to apply to your claim? To my knowledge, no monetary value has been specified as it pertains to the services of Sutherland. Moreover ...why, not? What if he feels having the actors he's sought out will elevate the quality of his work? As long as Sony doesn't mind, I don't see why it should bother any of us. You act like Kojima is wet behind the ears, breath smelling like Similac. He has been in a directorial role across damn-near four different decades, in a technology-based medium. Whether we like or dislike a given game, can we at least stop pretending he doesn't know what he's doing?
Let's be honest, Sutherland didn't elevate MGSV did it?

Edit: Dusk Golem with a decent critique on PT as opposed to my hot takes. Agree with all of this though. All of PT's infamy is to do with everything surrounding it, not it's quality as a game or game experience/part of a game.
 

aerts1js

Member
May 11, 2019
1,384
Geoff Keighley is a wet blanket concerning Kojima. Him near crying on stage acting as if Kojima's been kept at Guantanamo bay is hilariously cringe-worthy. Again, I love MGS, I and even like MGSV a lot, despite its flaws. But we might've got a complete get and a whole story if Kojima didn't fuck around spending millions of getting Sutherland to do the voice that somebody else had been doing for the previous 4 games at a 1/10th of the budget. So what does he do for his next project? Hire another celebrity actor because...why exactly? He's got a twitter crush on him or something. You're seeing all this play out again in Death Stranding (which may or may not be brilliant, but no need for all the celebrity actors).

The director of the game felt the need to include those actors. You are not more qualified to determine whether they are needed or not.

Konami wanted out on all big budget games. It's likely silent hill would have been a great project, but at the same time the company's risk tolerance excluded the development of costly games. Look what the company has released since: Very low budget spinoffs or remasters/re-releases.

MGS5 was expensive but made back its budget on day one. Konami just couldn't swallow any more risk and wanted the game out sooner rather than later. Even if it was "unfinished."
 

Reddaye

Member
Mar 24, 2018
2,903
New Brunswick, Canada
Dusk Golem summed up my thoughts perfectly in that applause worthy post.

I played PT when it was first available, and honestly thought it was fine. I didn't see where it was doing anything particular better than Amnesia or similar games, to be worthy of the overwhelming praise. I suspect Kojima being involved had/has a lot to do with it. People are certainly free to rave about the game and praise it if they want, but I don't really agree. It would have been nice to play a full release, because it likely would have been quite an experience, but as it is, PT isn't anything special in my eyes.
 

ActWan

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,334
P.T's main thing for me is the "work together to solve the mystery" which was so effective for Twitch streams when nobody knew what its about. The mystery generally even without other people to help, is just awesome with weird rumors on how to solve it floating online and noone really knows the true solutions. That mystery adds a lot to the horrors of the game, making it feel much more than it is.
What else, it has very effective atmosphere building, perfect scares and setups for scares, a lot of polish (especially compared to other games of its kin) and very compelling backstory and dialogue. I don't feel like many other games of the same genre offer nearly the amount of quality regarding these stuff, its really subtle here on so many levels, especially the setups for scares (and I know "look behind you" ain't subtle at all altho it's so effective and works in a different way, mainly talking on how environments and sounds play into the mix).
 
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Chaos2Frozen

Member
Nov 3, 2017
28,026
The main thing for me is that PT, or what little I dared to experience and watched, definitely captured the spirit of the old Silent Hill games, far more than their western iterations did at least.

For a pure horror game that's probably far more important than gameplay I Guess.
 
Jun 4, 2018
1,129
Let's be honest, Sutherland didn't elevate MGSV did it?

Did it not elevate it? Does Kojima think it makes his game a better one? That's really all that matters, if a publisher is willing to fund it, and we can be critical of it or praise it as we see fit. I don't take exception to your disapproval of Sutherland, but rather the reasoning, and in turn, pre-emptive rejection of the actors enlisted for his new game based on something we have absolutely zero knowledge of. For what it's worth, though, whether it was Sutherland or not, if I was in his position, Big Boss would have had a different voice from the start - for which, by the way, he also let his desires be known. But to answer your question, I would have to say he did. I don't think he delivered some performance for the ages that I'll think about for the rest of my life or anything (save for a handful of lines, maybe), but his inclusion certainly elevated the overall quality of the audio logs over the series' previous entry, Peace Walker, and with that being a primary focus of the game in question, that carries a lot of weight. The humor isn't as strong a presence, as with some of Hayter's recordings, but I think that's a combination of Sutherland's drier delivery and Kojima's less-jovial tone; hard to say which had more influence, but I feel the story moments were delivered well and made for a better experience, yeah.
 

Mikebison

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
11,036
Did it not elevate it? Does Kojima think it makes his game a better one? That's really all that matters, if a publisher is willing to fund it, and we can be critical of it or praise it as we see fit. I don't take exception to your disapproval of Sutherland, but rather the reasoning, and in turn, pre-emptive rejection of the actors enlisted for his new game based on something we have absolutely zero knowledge of. For what it's worth, though, whether it was Sutherland or not, if I was in his position, Big Boss would have had a different voice from the start - for which, by the way, he also let his desires be known. But to answer your question, I would have to say he did. I don't think he delivered some performance for the ages that I'll think about for the rest of my life or anything (save for a handful of lines, maybe), but his inclusion certainly elevated the overall quality of the audio logs over the series' previous entry, Peace Walker, and with that being a primary focus of the game in question, that carries a lot of weight. The humor isn't as strong a presence, as with some of Hayter's recordings, but I think that's a combination of Sutherland's drier delivery and Kojima's less-jovial tone; hard to say which had more influence, but I feel the story moments were delivered well and made for a better experience, yeah.
I think we unequivocally got a worse game for Sutherland voicing him. If for nothing else, than it feels like Sutherland couldn't spend as much time in the booth, wether because of scheduling, or budget.
 

saiko

Member
Nov 4, 2017
1,638
this is how i feel tbh. i think the cancellation of the project and the delisting of the demo has kinda contributed to its status as this holy grail, a taste of what could have been, but honestly it's not that special. i don't like the word over-rated too much but it seems appropriate to use it for this.

Did you even play it? Do you know why people think it was special in the first place, especially at the time when it came out? Solving the puzzle online with everyone literally felt like an event.
 

Daxa

Member
Jan 10, 2018
622
I don't think the game was as interesting as everyone else, but it definitely went on to inspire a lot of horror games that we have access to now. Hard to appreciate PT the same way if you play it now, because you won't get the novelty of it at the time it was released.

Same thing is the case with other classics across various mediums; they may not feel that interesting, but that's because so many works took on after them.

It also hit a sweet spot with the timing, just as livestreaming was growing, so it might be one of people's first shared experiences of playing a horror game. And its somewhat short length meant most people got a chance to finish it, both as players and viewers.
 

Ænima

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,513
Portugal
Other day i just booted it up to see if was still working, and i started having chills just as soon as i entered the corridor. Its one of the most effective horror experiences i had in videogames.
 

Mary Celeste

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,175
playing PT with my friends trying to solve it before the secret was revealed is my favorite video game memory. We somehow missed the jump scares with Lisa and slipped past that section, so when we restarted the game when another friend showed up and we let him play it, we all nearly shat ourself. It was as if the game itself was mocking us for feeling comfortable with it.
 

Lant_War

Classic Anus Game
The Fallen
Jul 14, 2018
23,556
A single demo pretty much influenced all horror games from there onwards. There's no doubts the final game would've been amazing, and I really doubt decisions like RE7 going first person would've happened without PT.

Also, people were already thrilled with the game before even knowing it was made by Kojima. Wtf is this revisionist nonsense.
 

monmagman

Member
Dec 6, 2018
4,126
England,UK
I couldn't finish it,lol.....I've no issues with horror games generally,but it fucking freaked me out....the confined space,the sound effects....shit was too fucking much for me.I still have it installed though,will probably never boot it up again.
 

Sailent

Member
Mar 2, 2018
1,591
Everyone thinking PT was a teaser for Silent Hills, you should watch this:

 
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Wetalo

Member
Feb 9, 2018
724
you're right. if it wasn't for the kojima connection it would probably have been forgotten

beginning hours RE7 demo is better than PT

The Beginning Hours demo scared me so much more than PT, especially in VR where I played for like five minutes and took it off. Being cut off from the world made me paranoid some person would attack me as I'm wearing the headset even though I'm alone at home with the door locked.