• Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
  • We have made minor adjustments to how the search bar works on ResetEra. You can read about the changes here.

Iacomus

Member
Dec 26, 2018
803
Up until this point I believed that Kojima's twitter posting have been strange. He is constantly introducing himself to new forms of media, going overseas and being out of the office to events around the world. I'm not aware of development cycles, and also understand he has to promote the game, but with him now being in crunch would be his own doing, no?

Feel bad for the QA dept. They're doing the worst crunch with shit pay and garbage benefits before being tossed aside/laid off after the game ships.

Does Kojima Studio have their own QA dept, after he brought a lot of people with him from Konami, I don't think he would get rid of them.
 

Deleted member 42472

User requested account closure
Banned
Apr 21, 2018
729
Why did they set such as crazy release date then? Did Sony request it? This industry is truly broken...
Considering how long the development cycles were for the MGS games and the horses Kojima motion capped, I imagine Sony gave them a budget and they are nearing the limits of it. And apparently Sony aren't willing to bankroll them until the end of time (although, Team ICO could at least re-release older games).

Which doesn't make this different than any other form of crunch. It isn't like management just says "I want to fuck with my employees today". It is a case of the money set aside for keeping the studio afloat running low and a product needing to exist to get more money for the next round of development
 
Jan 20, 2019
10,681
Why did they set such as crazy release date then? Did Sony request it? This industry is truly broken...

Doubt it, Got was been in the works for 5 years and still no release data and the same for dreams. They even delayed Days Gone and already predicted to have a lower income compared to 2018.

Maybe kojima said we could deliver a 2019 date and Sony was counting on it?
 

Shark

Member
Oct 28, 2017
8,126
Raleigh, NC
Why did they set such as crazy release date then? Did Sony request it? This industry is truly broken...
How do we know the release date is 'crazy'?

A lot being inferred and insinuated based on a single word from a non-native English speaker that he didn't use in his native tongue. A lot of conclusion jumping based on scant evidence to try and point out some supposed hypocrisy.

I'm trying to think of any industry or profession that doesn't put in more time and effort for something when the project nears a conclusion, especially something that needs to be in a state for millions of people to consume.

Kojima acknowledging the existence of that doesn't mean people at Kojima Productions are being overworked, under compensated, not given adequate rest, being mistreated, etc. etc. We wouldn't necessarily find out about this while the game is in production but I doubt the head of the studio would be posting Monster Energy pictures to make light of a situation if it was as dire as some in here assume it to automatically be.
 

Arthands

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
8,039
Whatever happen to the "give this creative man all the time he want to craft the masterpiece, the wait is going to be worth it, you cant rush a quality and creative product" thingy people been throwing back then?
 

RavFiveFour

Banned
Dec 3, 2018
1,721
Kojima has done this before, the stunner here is positioning the release date for max sales (if you're SONY) and possibly delaying.
 

Castamere

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,517
Sony, the publisher that hasn'tet released a blockbuster in the Fall all generation forced Kojima to release in Nov? No. Sorry. His ego did.

Edit. I forgot about Spideman but other than launch titles I thinks thats it.
 

Armaros

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,901
Up until this point I believed that Kojima's twitter posting have been strange. He is constantly introducing himself to new forms of media, going overseas and being out of the office to events around the world. I'm not aware of development cycles, and also understand he has to promote the game, but with him now being in crunch would be his own doing, no?



Does Kojima Studio have their own QA dept, after he brought a lot of people with him from Konami, I don't think he would get rid of them.

Everyone has QA in some form. Without it, you end up releasing with game breaking bugs but nothing this complicated just works on the first try all together.
 

labx

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,326
Medellín, Colombia
Era loves so much Kojima that is willingly accept the cognitive dissonance and normalize shitty work practices.

tenor.gif
 

funky

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,527
I wonder if they still have a dorm so people can work all day and sleep at Polyphony digital.
 

Wamb0wneD

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
18,735
Come on dude.

Just how is asking people to pump the brakes defending Kojima?
Because this is the first crunch related thread where people do so. It's staggering how many people go "everyone does it" in this thread compared to any other thread related to the issue. I swear some of the people in here would pay up to get farted on by this guy.
 
Oct 26, 2017
10,499
UK
Era loves so much Kojima that is willingly accept the cognitive dissonance and normalize shitty work practices.

tenor.gif

This isn't surprising at all given gaming eras track record. See the amount of the GTA thread that's about defending companies that engage in predatory tactics on top of their horrific tax evasion.

The normalisation of crunch and acting like it's a universal thing that must happen is the dumbest most anti-labour position I've ever heard.
 

Servbot24

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
43,161
This thread reminds me of how every review thread starts with 10 pages of "oh great here come the meltdowns! you people are insane!", but with no one actually melting down.
 

Wamb0wneD

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
18,735
This thread reminds me of how every review thread starts with 10 pages of "oh great here come the meltdowns! you people are insane!", but with no one actually melting down.
There are way too many people excusing this with "everybody does it", so yeah, it's actually happening in this very thread. Denying that is ridiculous.
 

jschreier

Press Sneak Fuck
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
1,099
Language and cultural barriers have made it difficult to poke around much in Japanese studios, but I have no doubt that many of those companies overwork their employees just as much (if not even more) than American and European companies.

It's worth noting that in isolation, overtime isn't an abusive practice that should be abolished at all costs. In fact, crunching for a few nights or even a couple of weeks can be exhilarating and productive. It's individual workaholism that contributes to a culture where people get dirty looks for leaving at 7pm, and that's a really tough problem to solve. How do you tell grown adults who want to stay nights and weekends that they're not allowed to? How do you create a culture where it's frowned upon? These are questions that have proven tough to answer, as hard as some companies have actually tried to find solutions. But what happens at companies like Naughty Dog is that nobody is asked to crunch -- they just stay late because they're perfectionists, it's ingrained in their DNA, and it's part of the culture.

Also, in the video game industry, it's crunch combined with low pay, stress, fan toxicity, sexism both subtle and blatant, volatility, and painful mismanagement (see: BioWare) that can make for such a brutal recipe, especially when said crunch is extended over the course of weeks, months, or even years. Overtime in and of itself is not the root of all evil, especially when it's properly compensated.

PS - here's a throwback:

 

chogidogs

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,357
Guy is old school and it's a new studio. I get it. But if he is successful because of this. He no excuses for his next projects.
 

N.47H.4N

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,096
Language and cultural barriers have made it difficult to poke around much in Japanese studios, but I have no doubt that many of those companies overwork their employees just as much (if not even more) than American and European companies.

It's worth noting that in isolation, overtime isn't an abusive practice that should be abolished at all costs. In fact, crunching for a few nights or even a couple of weeks can be exhilarating and productive. It's individual workaholism that contributes to a culture where people get dirty looks for leaving at 7pm, and that's a really tough problem to solve. How do you tell grown adults who want to stay nights and weekends that they're not allowed to? How do you create a culture where it's frowned upon? These are questions that have proven tough to answer, as hard as some companies have actually tried to find solutions. But what happens at companies like Naughty Dog is that nobody is asked to crunch -- they just stay late because they're perfectionists, it's ingrained in their DNA, and it's part of the culture.

Also, in the video game industry, it's crunch combined with low pay, stress, fan toxicity, sexism both subtle and blatant, volatility, and painful mismanagement (see: BioWare) that can make for such a brutal recipe, especially when said crunch is extended over the course of weeks, months, or even years. Overtime in and of itself is not the root of all evil, especially when it's properly compensated.

PS - here's a throwback:

Bravo
 

Deleted member 15973

User-requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
5,172
The problem isn't crunch, the problem is when people are expected to overwork even though they meet deadlines or when deadlines can only be met through crunch. People can't take days off etc. If people are getting the rewards they deserve then there's no issue.
 

Spring

Member
Oct 31, 2017
333
Language and cultural barriers have made it difficult to poke around much in Japanese studios, but I have no doubt that many of those companies overwork their employees just as much (if not even more) than American and European companies.

It's worth noting that in isolation, overtime isn't an abusive practice that should be abolished at all costs. In fact, crunching for a few nights or even a couple of weeks can be exhilarating and productive. It's individual workaholism that contributes to a culture where people get dirty looks for leaving at 7pm, and that's a really tough problem to solve. How do you tell grown adults who want to stay nights and weekends that they're not allowed to? How do you create a culture where it's frowned upon? These are questions that have proven tough to answer, as hard as some companies have actually tried to find solutions. But what happens at companies like Naughty Dog is that nobody is asked to crunch -- they just stay late because they're perfectionists, it's ingrained in their DNA, and it's part of the culture.

Also, in the video game industry, it's crunch combined with low pay, stress, fan toxicity, sexism both subtle and blatant, volatility, and painful mismanagement (see: BioWare) that can make for such a brutal recipe, especially when said crunch is extended over the course of weeks, months, or even years. Overtime in and of itself is not the root of all evil, especially when it's properly compensated.

PS - here's a throwback:


Jason, you are saying Naughty Dog's crunch is okay but BioWare crunch is a no no?
 

ChippyTurtle

Banned
Oct 13, 2018
4,773
Crunch happens everywhere, and its a common right-wing refrain to say that people advocating for unions want to "make the game industry different" and "special".

However crunch needs to be properly compensated, and limited, no months of Rockstar bullshit, there should be overtime, max limits, etc, etc.
 

Strings

Member
Oct 27, 2017
31,431
4+ months out and crunching? just delay the game, it hasn't even been in development that long compared to other SIE games. I doubt Playstation would say no, given the team size and development time.


Also this, like come on.
I think the release date is a promise Kojima made or something (proving MGSV was an outlier or whatever, since he's been remarkably consistent in terms of releases excluding that). Otherwise it makes no sense, because like you said, they've been in development a remarkably short time for a AAA game.
 

ItsTheShoes

Attempting to circumvent ban with an alt
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
334
I hope it isn't optional and they make the best damn game they can because of it. No room for lazy devs!
 

Shawcroft

Member
Oct 29, 2017
361
Poor Kojima, I hope he recovers.

Let's not think about the team under him that do the actual work too much. That'd be stressful. Almost like crunch.
 

Nothing Loud

Literally Cinderella
Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,987
Everyone crunches at every job over certain tasks

Not really. Just Americans and certain American companies who have deluded themselves and normalized this unhealthy and unnecessary culture.

Good project management and managing leadership invalidate the need for inhumane crunch. Plenty of countries from Denmark to France don't tolerate crunch culture and their productivity per capita is comparable to us.
 

Nothing Loud

Literally Cinderella
Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,987
So maybe your statement that crunch doesn't happen everywhere and is only American might be false?

Maybe you're right; I didn't mean to exactly exclude every other country, I meant to emphasize how much Americans seem to excuse it.

The point is that crunch is not healthy and should not be normalized. Then again Era is a forum where people will literally brag about not using sick days or PTO so my expectations of this discussion here were already pretty bare minimum