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Rosol

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,396
User Warned: Platform Wars. Trolling.
lmaooo this thread is a trip. Obviously a dumb thing to say, but this topic has turned into stans vs haters at this point.

Yep, I'm pretty sure most of the heat in this thread is because this is a proxy platform war thread against a big time exclusive game, I'm not sure the posters even realize that is their intent most of the time.
 

Yossarian

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
13,264
That hes been touting the same poor strawman argument to deflect criticism since embargo lifted, even going as far to retweet pepe the frog accounts.

Strawman, sure, but not sure what the Pepe has to do with that.

It seems like - and I appreciate I could be waaaay off here - that you're suggesting that he is retweeting Pepe accounts in full knowledge of (and despite) their significance. Otherwise, I'm not sure why the Pepe thing is important to your main point.

Don't forget lazy too! Stupid and lazy!

Haha! Yes, stupid and lazy!
 

jviggy43

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
18,184
Strawman, sure, but not sure what the Pepe has to do with that.

It seems like - and I appreciate I could be waaaay off here - that you're suggesting that he is retweeting Pepe accounts in full knowledge of (and despite) their significance. Otherwise, I'm not sure why the Pepe thing is important to your main point.



Haha! Yes, stupid and lazy!
I'm not sure why people on the internet constantly seem to think being ignorant is an excuse for promoting problematic conten (here a symbol for white supremacy). Whether he knows what pepe the frog means or not is really besides the point. Maybe he should be more careful as to what media he is signal boosting in the future (let alone how hilariously petty it is of him to continue pushing that false narrative in the first place)
 

Acido

Member
Oct 31, 2017
1,098
He's becoming a parody of himself. I just saw that there's a Rick and Morty ad for this game too I can't. The Joker crossover dlc will be announced any day now.
 

Akira86

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,585
Celebrating the people who came to help you is egomaniac? Ok.

T33poBL.png
these people see Kojima and think...his head is big. He thinks he is KojiPro.
but no...Kojima is the strand that connects the world, he is the bridge between continents.

Kojima is BB, laughing and crying on our journey along with us, as we carry him on our hip from one side of America to the other.
 

Yossarian

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
13,264
I'm not sure why people on the internet constantly seem to think being ignorant is an excuse for promoting problematic conten (here a symbol for white supremacy). Whether he knows what pepe the frog means or not is really besides the point. Maybe he should be more careful as to what media he is signal boosting in the future (let alone how hilariously petty it is of him to continue pushing that false narrative in the first place)

Are you serious?

What kind of logic is that? If one doesn't know something is problematic, why would they specifically avoid it...?
 

jviggy43

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
18,184
Are you serious?

What kind of logic is that? If one doesn't know something is problematic, why would they specifically avoid it...?
What kind of logic is it that you think promoting and signal boosting white supremacy is acceptable because someone chooses to be ignorant?

He just was awarded the most followed game dev. With that comes responsibility to your audience. Signal boosting white supremacy is incredibly ignominious behavior.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,956
It's really, really sad that there are people responding to this nonsense claim that boils down to "the plebs just don't get it" and saying "yeah, that makes sense"
 

ArcLyte

Member
Nov 1, 2017
3,037
Kojima has irreparably offended extremely-online millennial video game Dunkaroos. He has signed his own cancellation warrant.
 

Lukemia SL

Member
Jan 30, 2018
9,384
The wall of selfies and quotes is just corroborating evidence to me. I knew the man was a narcissist when he credited himself after every mission in MGSV and put his name in every DS trailer multiple times. "A Hideo Kojima game. Directed by Hideo Kojima. Produced by Hideo Kojima. Written by Hideo Kojima." Etc.



Saw this tweet the other day. How much of an exaggeration is it? The man is surely gifted but, come on, have some humility.


very exaggerated but they seem like they need attention, so why not.
 

nib95

Contains No Misinformation on Philly Cheesesteaks
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
18,498
You're absolutely correct. Walking through vast open, empty worlds doing fedex quests is nothing at all like the typical AAA game. And when you aren't doing that, you're watching a massive amount of cutscenes. Riveting stuff.

You're being highly reductive. Yes, that is obviously akin to many open world games in that you travel or go from point to point, but other open world games do not have the same gameplay or breadth of mechanical systems in that pursuit, eg where even the very act of walking itself is a rewarding challenge where you have to constantly consider your balance, stamina, centre of gravity, weight distribution, speed etc, as you do managing the very load you carry, be it in how it is dispersed across your body or vehicles or tools, or the way it's stacked to preserve damage from time fall rain, to how you plan or gauge your routes, the tools or equipment you choose to take with you that will shape what paths you might be able to take, to the asynchronous multiplayer that may have a fundamental impact on how you or others interact with the environment or with your tasks and so on.

In other words, this is traversal where the very act of traversal itself is a rich and mechanically interesting gameplay system or simulation full of countless considerations, which is unlike any other open world game.
 

Sanctuary

Member
Oct 27, 2017
14,203
You're being highly reductive. Yes, that is obviously akin to many open world games in that you travel or go from point to point, but other open world games do not have the same gameplay or breadth of mechanical systems in that pursuit, eg where even the very act of walking itself is a rewarding challenge where you have to constantly consider your balance, stamina, centre of gravity, weight distribution, speed etc, as you do managing the very load you carry, be it in how it is dispersed across your body or vehicles or tools, or the way it's stacked to preserve damage from time fall rain, to how you plan or gauge your routes, the tools or equipment you choose to take with you that will shape what paths you might be able to take, to the asynchronous multiplayer that may have a fundamental impact on how you or others interact with the environment or with your tasks and so on.

In other words, this is traversal where the very act of traversal itself is a rich and mechanically interesting gameplay system or simulation, full of countless considerations, which is unlike any other open world game.

You don't need to try to sell me on something that obviously is not for me. Doesn't matter if there are a bunch of additional systems laid on top of the core gameplay of the game. That core gameplay is the most boring aspect (to me) of many typical AAA games.

I'll be getting it eventually on PC anyway at a deep discount, but it will be so cheap that it won't much matter if I'm bored to tears within the first ten hours or so. Mainly getting it for the visuals.
 

Yossarian

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
13,264
What kind of logic is it that you think promoting and signal boosting white supremacy is acceptable because someone chooses to be ignorant?

He just was awarded the most followed game dev. With that comes responsibility to your audience. Signal boosting white supremacy is incredibly ignominious behavior.

Are you winding me up? :D
 

Nameless

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,346
Even if Kojima was ego-maniacal and narcissistic to the degree the most extreme posts in this thread are painting him out to be, so what? Some of the best artists are dicks. I love the games he makes, I'm not having him over for Thanksgiving. Creators I admire don't need to be likable.
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
115,526
Even if Kojima was ego-maniacal and narcissistic to the degree the most extreme posts in this thread are painting him out to be, so what? Some of the best artists are dicks. I love the games he makes, I'm not having him over for Thanksgiving. Creators I admire don't need to be likable.

A lot of artists are dicks. But just because they're dicks doesn't mean they're immune to criticism for being dicks.

For example, Ed Harris is a gigantic asshole - it's entirely possible to think he's a good actor and ALSO think he's a gigantic asshole. Kojima being a talented game developer and also a thin-skinned egomaniac with an extremely overinflated opinion of himself is not exactly new territory to plumb.
 

newmoneytrash

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,981
Melbourne, Australia
Even if Kojima was ego-maniacal and narcissistic to the degree the most extreme posts in this thread are painting him out to be, so what? Some of the best artists are dicks. I love the games he makes, I'm not having him over for Thanksgiving. Creators I admire don't need to be likable.
i mean no one is saying he has to be likeable or isn't allowed to say what he says, we're just being critical of something he disagrees with

also i think that the idea of someone being a dick is okay because they're great artist is lame and something we should push back against. it's a boring trope at this point and we don't need to enable it for the sake of enabling it
 

Patsy

Member
Jun 7, 2019
1,279
Germany
It's so fucking funny how people - and even Kojima himself to a degree - act like the game is hard to get & only for intelligent people when the game beats you over the head with it's metaphors & story beats multiple times in a row EVERY TIME to make sure you absolutely get it and did not miss it. One of the first cutscenes in the game is literally just "PHONES ARE HANDCUFFS!! WHAT IF SUBTEXT WAS JUST PLAIN TEXT INSTEAD" and it genuinely just did not get better yet after 25+ hours in the game.

I love the traversal especially once you get to build roads & get vehicles & spent hours alone just building the highway, I love the cinematography & direction, I love the soundtrack, I loved the horror vibes the game gave me for the first few hours in bt areas before they were more of an annoyance than anything else, but I absolutely can not stand the bad combat encounters with mules and bts and the just plain bad writing & endlessly repeating & unnecessary exposition, horrible acting from some characters like fragile & the general misogynistic bullshit that of course has to be present in every single one of his god damn games.

I wish he & some of his most die-hard fans would think about why it is that people don't like the game and not instantly say "you just like shooty shoot bang bang games". No. The game genuinely would be better without the bad combat, it doesn't need combat. What it does need is a fucking editor and good writing both of which are seemingly not fucking present. It also doesn't help that due to the writing & acting I can't really take the story seriously so far so it seems even more weird to me how serious he seemingly took it.
 

Voke

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
1,336
Read a few pages, it's funny I can tell people who have actually spent time on Death Stranding and those who clearly haven't lol.
 

Nameless

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,346
i mean no one is saying he has to be likeable or isn't allowed to say what he says, we're just being critical of something he disagrees with

also i think that the idea of someone being a dick is okay because they're great artist is lame and something we should push back against. it's a boring trope at this point and we don't need to enable it for the sake of enabling it

If they are being outwardly toxic or abusive towards others sure(Kubrick's treatment of Shelley Duvall for example), but having unappealing personality quirks isn't something that needs to be "pushed back against". By all accounts everyone who works with Kojima loves him. His being a "dick" when referencing his own work isn't hurting anything but the feelings of people online who already dislike him.
 

nib95

Contains No Misinformation on Philly Cheesesteaks
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
18,498
You don't need to try to sell me on something that obviously is not for me. Doesn't matter if there are a bunch of additional systems laid on top of the core gameplay of the game. That core gameplay is the most boring aspect (to me) of many typical AAA games.

I'll be getting it eventually on PC anyway at a deep discount, but it will be so cheap that it won't much matter if I'm bored to tears within the first ten hours or so. Mainly getting it for the visuals.

For the record, I'm not trying to sell you on the game, nor am I saying you will like it, you may hate it. I'm simply correcting your mis-characterisation of the game.

From your posts and reductive summaries, you seem to know little about It, so I'd probably refrain from trying to correct or imply people who have or are playing it, are wrong when they state the game is a unique or rather fresh taken on open world gaming, which it quite clearly is, something you'd know if you'd played it.

Side note, I like how it's gone from you'll never play it to you'll play it on a deep sale. And also how you're defending The Outer Worlds in its uniqueness versus the Fallout games, whilst simultaneously repeatedly implying Death Stranding is just more of the same, again, without having played it lol. That's pretty ironic dude.

Except it mostly is, which is why I'll never play it. It's the worst aspects of most AAA "open-world" games, without any of the few interesting parts that exist within them.



Except for, you know...an interesting and large world to travel through. But yeah, other than that, it's exactly the same...
 

Butch

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,438
Isn't this an English translation of an Italy translation of Kojima's Japanese? Don't know why you guys take this quotes so srsly, the dude clearly loves America lol, probably didn't mean anything insulting.
 

Sanctuary

Member
Oct 27, 2017
14,203
For the record, I'm not trying to sell you on the game, nor am I saying you will like it, you may hate it. I'm simply correcting your mischaracterusation of the game.

From your posts and reductive summaries, you seem to know little about It, so I'd probably refrain from trying to correct or imply people who have or are playing it, are wrong when they state the game is a unique or rather fresh taken on open world gaming, which it quite clearly is, something you'd know if you'd played it.

Side note, I like how it's gone from you'll never play it to you'll play it on a deep sale lol. And also how you're defending The Outer Worlds in its uniqueness versus the Fallout games, whilst simultaneously repeatedly implying Death Stranding is just more of the same lol. That's pretty ironic dude.

I know as much as I need to know about it after having read multiple reviews and watched multiple videos of the gameplay. You can call it reductive all you want as though that's a negative, but when you distill the game down to its most basic element, it is a fetch quest walking simulator, and I absolutely cannot stand that in most games. You on the other hand seem like you're making it your mission to correct those that have already made up their minds, almost ironically fitting the theme of this thread in the first place.

And you also have me confused with someone else. I never defended The Outer Worlds in its uniqueness. I've been doing the contrary since a few days after it launched.
 

newmoneytrash

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,981
Melbourne, Australia
If they are being outwardly toxic or abusive towards others sure(Kubrick's treatment of Shelley Duvall for example), but having unappealing personality quirks isn't something that needs to be "pushed back against". By all accounts everyone who works with Kojima loves him. His being a "dick" when referencing his own work isn't hurting anything but the feelings of people online who already dislike him.
I would argue that being dismissive of the tastes of an entire nation because you got a few bad reviews *is* toxic behaviour
 

Tibarn

Member
Oct 31, 2017
13,370
Barcelona
Kojima is just delusional at this point. I've played 20 hours of DS, and yeah, the game has amazing vistas and lots of cool concepts... that are hampered by a poor execution. It's no wonder that a game with repetitive mission design, mediocre combat, constant forced slow sections (let's be real, BTs are not a good mechanic and only serve to make some sections slower), bad vehicle driving... gets some bad reviews. The game simply lacks the depth you expect from a really long traversal adventure, and no cool cooperation system or insert song will fix it.
 

jviggy43

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
18,184
Blimey. You're a very generous soul, aren't you?

Out of interest, what exactly do you "choose to be ignorant" about?
Not promoting white supremacy. Also I love that youre sarcastically quipping about what a generous soul I am for saying I think advertising pepe the frog is a bad look. Maybe get your priorities straight.
 

newmoneytrash

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,981
Melbourne, Australia
Isn't this an English translation of an Italy translation of Kojima's Japanese? Don't know why you guys take this quotes so srsly, the dude clearly loves America lol, probably didn't mean anything insulting.
it's been verified in this thread that the italian to english translation is accurate. we can't speak to the japanese to italian translation because we don't have that information and can only judge what he said with the information he said. and nothing he said feels particularly out of character imo
 

nib95

Contains No Misinformation on Philly Cheesesteaks
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
18,498
I know as much as I need to know about it after having read multiple reviews and watched multiple videos of the gameplay. You can call it reductive all you want as though that's a negative, but when you distill the game down to its most basic element, it is a fetch quest walking simulator, and I absolutely cannot stand that in most games. You on the other hand seem like you're making it your mission to correct those that have already made up their minds, almost ironically fitting the theme of this thread in the first place.

And you also have me confused with someone else. I never defended The Outer Worlds in its uniqueness. I've been doing the contrary since a few days after it launched.

"but when you distill the game down to its most basic element" is essentially short for "when you're highly reductive and remove all important gameplay context just so it can fit my pre-conceived negative narrative".

I mean, no shit the game is going to be like other open world games if you strip away it's unique core design principles, gameplay systems and mechanics. That would be like saying when you strip out Breath of the Wilds unique mechanics, puzzles, traversal methods and approach to exploration, it's just like any other open world game. Lol.

And I only brought up Outer Worlds because in that very post you were responding to someone who stated Outer Worlds was immensely familiar to Fallout.
 

Sanctuary

Member
Oct 27, 2017
14,203
And I only brought up Outer Worlds because in that very post you were responding to someone who stated Outer Worlds was immensely familiar to Fallout.

How could you have taken what I said as a defense of the game, or its uniqueness though? It is very similar (Hell, we've been calling it Fallout + Mass Effect + Bioshock for a while now), but also a lot more basic and without one of the most important aspects of the first-person Fallout games. I was replying to how The Outer Worlds was "literally Fallout in every single game design element imaginable". It's very similar, but without a compelling world to actually roam through in both scope and variety.

As far as me going from saying I'll never play Death Stranding, to saying I'll be buying it, OK...you got me! I was primarily going to be buying it for the visuals, just to see what it looks like at 4K/60 next year after the new video cards get released since the game at least looks nice. It's a game that I know I would quickly get bored with though, and would just be using it more for a tech demo than anything. Also, while I'm not above eating crow, there's a reason I've never replayed MGS4 after a single playthrough, and that's on top of a gameplay loop that causes me to drop open-world games regularly.
 

Tomeru

Member
May 7, 2018
673
You're being highly reductive. Yes, that is obviously akin to many open world games in that you travel or go from point to point, but other open world games do not have the same gameplay or breadth of mechanical systems in that pursuit, eg where even the very act of walking itself is a rewarding challenge where you have to constantly consider your balance, stamina, centre of gravity, weight distribution, speed etc, as you do managing the very load you carry, be it in how it is dispersed across your body or vehicles or tools, or the way it's stacked to preserve damage from time fall rain, to how you plan or gauge your routes, the tools or equipment you choose to take with you that will shape what paths you might be able to take, to the asynchronous multiplayer that may have a fundamental impact on how you or others interact with the environment or with your tasks and so on.

In other words, this is traversal where the very act of traversal itself is a rich and mechanically interesting gameplay system or simulation full of countless considerations, which is unlike any other open world game.

I said god damn! Amazingly well put, I'm gonna quote you to my friends :)
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,970
People don't like this game? It's 'cause of the Alt-Right.

There I said it... somebody had to!

Seriously tho the reddit threads about this game are so weird. People really hate this game, not just "here are some problems with this game" but "here is 2000 words about showing not telling, exposition dumps, sophomoric subtext, Japanese cultural failings, product placement and one dimensional characterizations".

The games story is as sophisticated as a 1980's comic book but that's it's charm; it's for children.

Honestly videogames can be a mature story telling medium but I have no idea why anyone ever thought this particular one would be THAT videogame.

I think the game is great.
 

Yossarian

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
13,264
Not promoting white supremacy.

Good one! :D

The answer is: "I don't know", otherwise one wouldn't actually be ignorant, would they? It's a silly phrase.

Also I love that youre sarcastically quipping about what a generous soul I am for saying I think advertising pepe the frog is a bad look. Maybe get your priorities straight.

I don't think you actually believe it's a "bad look", you said it yourself: it's "promoting and signal boosting white supremacy", which seems a bit... well, a bit much?

It kind of makes me question whether your primary motivation - not only; very important distinction - is concern about the proliferation of white supremacy or whether you're more - again, not only - concerned with using it as a tool to bludgeon something you don't like.

I don't know you, so I couldn't possibly say one way or the other, but it seems like such a slight transgression on Kojima's part that it doesn't necessarily warrant that level of reaction. If you do feel very strongly about it, I'd love to see your thread on the subject (unless there already was one?).

Finally, the whole being responsible for personally vetting 2.8 million followers against criteria he may not even be aware of...? That's bordering on the Kafkaesque in it's logic.
 

Remeran

Member
Nov 27, 2018
3,893
Yikes.

I haven't played the game yet as I'm waitingfor the PC port but from the little I've seen from my brothers play through I think I'm gonna dig it. This type of comment makes me cringe though.
 

Listai

50¢
Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,657
I saw this quote on Twitter and I assumed it was from a cloying mid-tier reviewer trying to get a Kojima retweet.

But nope, from Kojima himself
 

WadeIt0ut

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,985
Iowa
The bigger problem is how people get so attached to an IP before ever even playing a game. So when it releases they feel personally attacked if others don't like it.

It's really bizarre.