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SkoomaBlade

Chicken Chaser
Member
Oct 30, 2017
1,052
Say I'm thread whining or whatever but the OP and title are really lacking any context on what kind of human being he was.
I feel like the "Era" community in general is extremely picky when it comes to calling out problematic industry figures and companies.
We rightfully tag certain threads pertaining to companies like CDPR and Acti-Blizz, but you'd never see the same kind of community backlash or thread tagging for certain revered companies on here like Square-Enix.

Koichi Sugiyama's bullshit has been known for a long ass time but every DQ and SE goes on like everything is peachy.
 

Berordn

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 26, 2017
9,735
NoVA
Seeing people praising a Death makes me understand they are equal to their disbeliefs.
all this tone policing really is something

nobody wished ill on the man, he lived to a VERY old age and was wealthy and accomplished

but he's now gone and can no longer spread his own vile beliefs onto the world. those of us who were targeted by his beliefs have every right to express our disdain of the man. decorum only allows his politics to remain unchecked, and they deserve to be called out.
 

HK-47

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,581
This has been my thought on the entire matter ever since his politics had become more well-known in the west.

He was innovative, and the core he laid down for Dragon Quest is beyond iconic. However, there was no growth after the first few years. Dragon Quest music has been mostly stale a for a long time.

Once it became known who and what the man was, there was basically no reason for Square Enix to hold onto him like they did except for cynical marketing reasons.
They can't cut him out. He partially owns the series, not just the music, as I understand it.
 

theMrCravens

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,307
Sad times.
Started my JRPG venture with famicom DQ.
I still hum the tunes from time to time. Top nostalgia.
 

Rosebud

Two Pieces
Member
Apr 16, 2018
43,480
Mar 2, 2020
753
Brazil
I'd say childish behavior is claiming you know what other people here have went through and basing your judgment of them in complete nonsense.

Anyway, looking forward to the eventual trump death thread. I imagine lots of 400-something post accounts from 2017 will come out of the woodwork to wag fingers and say "ackchyually you're morally not any better for mocking his death", then feel like they've dropped the philosophical world's collective wisdom with their post.
It's literally the same thing to me.
Everytime I say I eager for the day Bolsonaro dies, somebody close to me says I can't wish death to anyone and that I'm no better than him for saying that.
I mean wtf???? The scumbag literally made a campaign based on fake news that made the absurds of comparing gay people with pedophiles, trying to ban schools to let transgender children be themselves, saying he'd rather have a son die in a car accident than a gay one, honouring the biggest monster of the dictatorship that was know to torture women raping them putting rats on their vaginas, torturing their newborn babies or chindren in front of them, voting as an act of misogyny and psychological terror for the state strike against the only woman to be president in here, and after elected actively promoted the devastation of the biodiversity, continued to promote homophobia and transphobia in a country where last year was responsible for more murders of trans women and travestis than all others combined, made neonazi gestures on official lives, had a declared nazi to take care of the culture secretary and made speeches remade from Goebbels, made a genocide that led to 600.000 by covid...
This logic that commemorating that somebody died is as bad as actively supporting people or killing people makes no real sense.
Comparing a queer person saying Sugiyama is finally dead to him laughing at teens commiting suicide because they're LGBT or denying the crimes against humanity that Japan has made towards innocent Chinese people, even women and children, is like comparing Mussolini causing millions of deaths to the people who celebrated when he was captured and dismembered by the people he would do that and did to various others. It's just not the same thing.
 

Neoxon

Spotlighting Black Excellence - Diversity Analyst
Member
Oct 25, 2017
85,279
Houston, TX
everyone in this thread is so childish and wrong it's disgusting… it's clear that he's not resting in peace. that mf is in HELL and it's GREAT!!!
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But yeah, you aren't wrong (especially about the 2nd half of your post).
 

Soriku

Member
Nov 12, 2017
6,891
I wouldn't hold your breath, I bet they keep the music largely the same. It's iconic.

What does largely the same mean? They might keep the same 'style' but a different composer should be able to come up with new types of melodies, and I can't see them continuing to use MIDI anymore except for retro purposes but that would just be dumb.
 

Tyrant Rave

Has A Pretty Cool Jacket
Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,696
I don't think there is that much disdain for him outside of places like Era in the west, tbh.

This is the only website where I ever really heard anything about his political views.
It's not just here at all. You'll find a lot of it in gaming spaces on Twitter or other platforms pretty easily.
 

Watchtower

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,631
Bigotry is allowed to fester and spread because people default to upholding decorum. In a better world we'd all be celebrating the death of someone who used his wealth to help make life so miserable for so many innocent people.

the-office-thank-you.gif


Love DQ music all you want, acknowledge the massive influence he's had on video game music as a whole, but fuck this idea that we must be civil. Let people drop the edgiest meme-iest bombs they can muster. Fuck the idea that he deserves to be respected.

No. There are so many fucking devils in the video game industry, and Sugiyama was one of the worst, one who was an active detriment inside and outside of gaming. Pilfer his now-rotting corpse for his music and then let him burn.
 

inner-G

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
14,473
PNW
What does largely the same mean?
I bet they keep many of the main series themes and sound effects in perpetuity. As I said, they're Iconic.

In Japan, even DQ VIII on PS2 had Famicom-style sound effects. The series is really associated with its 8-bit roots, much moreso than a series like FF.
 

Soriku

Member
Nov 12, 2017
6,891
I bet they keep many of the main series themes and sound effects in perpetuity. As I said, they're Iconic.

In Japan, even DQ VIII on PS2 had Famicom-style sound effects. The series is really associated with its 8-bit roots, much moreso than a series like FF.

They'll probably keep the main theme and some sound effects, but I don't see anyone having a problem with that.
 

Fiery Phoenix

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,835
Wow, didn't know about the WWII stuff. How much of a war crime denier was he? I'm curious to see examples of that.
 

Rosebud

Two Pieces
Member
Apr 16, 2018
43,480
Wow, didn't know about the WWII stuff. How much of a war crime denier was he? I'm curious to see examples of that.

Sugiyama also promoted far-right nationalist views and publicly denied Japanese war crimes. He refuted the historical record involving Japan's role in the 1937 Nanking Massacre, during which Japanese troops killed hundreds of thousands of Chinese people and raped upwards of 80,000 Chinese women, and opposed an apology from the Japanese government for its use of so-called comfort women, a softened term for women and girls who were forced into sexual slavery by the Imperial Japanese Army during World War II.

www.polygon.com

Dragon Quest composer Koichi Sugiyama dead at 90

The controversial nationalist composer died in September

It should be in the OP
 
Staff Post

Nepenthe

When the music hits, you feel no pain.
Administrator
Oct 25, 2017
20,659
Official Staff Communication
Koichi Sugiyama was a beloved composer known for his melodies on the Dragon Quest series.

He also denied Japanese war crimes, was instrumental in the shaping of harsh copyright law in Japan, and most pertinent here, laughed at the suicides of Japanese LGBT people.

Tone policing members with regards to Sugiyama's bigotry will be punished harshly.
 

Lydecker

Member
Aug 13, 2020
1,198
User Banned (1 Month): Dismissing Concerns in a Sensitive Thread; Account in Junior Phase
He was an asshole, but I love his music dearly. You've got to seperate the artist from his art. Just as Stephen Fry loves Richard Wagners music, even as he was a heavy antisemite and many family members in the Fry family died in the concentration camps.
 

Small Red Boy

▲ Legend ▲
Member
May 9, 2019
2,673
Omg just saw this. Fuck that cunt, glad that he won't be staining DQ and contributing to bigotry anymore 😊.
 

DoofTroop

Alt account
Banned
Sep 29, 2021
100
You've got to seperate the artist from his art. Just as Stephen Fry loves Richard Wagners music, even as he was a heavy antisemite and many family members in the Fry family died in the concentration camps.
You don't "got" to do anything. Tell that to the people his hate targeted. Fuck outta here with that "got to" bullshit
 
Mar 2, 2020
753
Brazil
It's always people that aren't affected by his actions and words.

Sure many people are starving, but don't be MEAN
I think more about this and that's so true. People bring up that we must never had any loss to laugh at a death(which is already not true as I lost my dad to cancer just last year and he almost half the age of Sugiyama).

But... How an LGBT person who spent most of their life in a closet scared to death to be themself and had tried suicide and survived is supposed to feel about someone laughing about the suicide rate of LGBT people in a country we'd be denied even basic rights??

Our feeling of anger and relief is valid. We passed for too much to be ourselves. And those he laughed at passed for too much as well, to the point they were rather taking away their lives to keep living in a society that in fact wished them dead since their childhood. Imagine how they would feel??? If one of them was a DQ fan and was alive, how they would react to see the composer of a game that indeed might helped them live, making fun of the everlasting fear they had??

Think about those who are in the skin of those teenagers today. Think if they would be more angry at us for being angry at a man who made such vile statements about their existences or at us for being angry at such person and saying he's better dead than being praised and making fun of them.

As someone who's gay, asexual and nonbinary and lives in Brazil I also feel angry at people who are praised for, for a while, making me hate my existence to the point of almost ending my life. And if you say I'm as bad as them maybe you should try to have more empathy, or maybe you should read the text again.

I wish his family has the strength to endure his loss, and that people on the internet understand why there are people happy that he passed instead of using rhetoric.
 

VPplaya

Member
Nov 20, 2018
1,964
Hey maybe DQ12 will actually have an OST of comparable size to other rpgs of that length. Good riddance, he was a monster and his music was incredibly overrated.
 

Chessguy1

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,802
I was browsing /r/dragonquest and someone bought up this resetera thread, and a user was mentioning how toxic it was and GAF is better than it now.

i clicked on his profile and it was a bunch of posts in /r/KiA, many of them very toxic.

I looked even closer, and he is a mod of r/dragonquest.

because of course.
 

Gaia Lanzer

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,669
As much of an ass as he was, you shouldn't be glad anyone is dead.
If there is any added joys to the good news this thread has brought ERA, it's all those holier-than-thou tone-policing folk getting banned. That shit's the cherry on top.

Oh yeah, and DQ's gettin' a new composer, which is hype as well!

Celebrating the death of a person who exhibited disguting behavior makes you a person who exhibits disgusting behavior. You are not better.
People SAY shit like this all the time, but you wanna know something...

...WE ARE!

We aren't happy about death, we are happy of the deaths of people that have hurt this world. That have made this world and society a little more negative, a little more hateful and evil. WE aren't killing people, or hating on people who are undeserving. We are just punching up at those who love to punch down. You don't protect those that punch down. unless you wanna get knocked out.

This thread does not align with that recent age poll. Lots of people in here have clearly never lost anybody close to them. Childish behavior.
If you believe this, I feel sorry for you.

Seeing people praising a Death makes me understand they are equal to their disbeliefs.
If this is what you believe, you know jack-shit about equality.
 

TheChrisGlass

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,605
Los Angeles, CA
I was browsing /r/dragonquest and someone bought up this resetera thread, and a user was mentioning how toxic it was and GAF is better than it now.

i clicked on his profile and it was a bunch of posts in /r/KiA.

I looked even closer, and he is a mod of r/dragonquest.

because of course.
I found folks who were naively asking what the guy did wrong and all this shit, but then those same folk were Ethan van Sciver fans, so... they know exactly what they're doing.

Lots of concern trolling.
 

ramenline

Member
Jan 9, 2019
1,292
massive influence, dogshit person

I don't think there is that much disdain for him outside of places like Era in the west, tbh.

This is the only website where I ever really heard anything about his political views.

eh this ain't really an era bubble thing, the r/DragonQuest mods have banned any mention of his politics and the gematsu article is already locked for new comments.
 

Vonocourt

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,612
Official Staff Communication
Koichi Sugiyama was a beloved composer known for his melodies on the Dragon Quest series.

He also denied Japanese war crimes, was instrumental in the shaping of harsh copyright law in Japan, and most pertinent here, laughed at the suicides of Japanese LGBT people.

Tone policing members with regards to Sugiyama's bigotry will be punished harshly.
Thank you.
 

Morrigan

Spear of the Metal Church
Member
Oct 24, 2017
34,304
It's always the same song and dance huh? Some incredibly malicious, harmful bigot, not just a misguided old man with kooky/outdated views but a real monster who spent his life advocating for and causing harm to marginalized people, dies (usually peacefully of old age, too), and suddenly we must be all proper piousness and decorum. Every single time.

This pearl-clutching is asinine and insufferable. Unless you're his direct relative, why the fuck would anyone care?

This thread does not align with that recent age poll. Lots of people in here have clearly never lost anybody close to them. Childish behavior.
I dare you to say this to the face of those who have lost LGBTQ loved ones to suicide only for Sugiyama to laugh at.
 

Meows

Member
Oct 28, 2017
6,399
What does largely the same mean? They might keep the same 'style' but a different composer should be able to come up with new types of melodies, and I can't see them continuing to use MIDI anymore except for retro purposes but that would just be dumb.
I have read that some Japanese fans prefer the music in-game to sound like that versus symphonic for nostalgic reasons, though I don't know for sure if that is true or not. XI is the one that really sounds awful due to that but I think the issue there is also composition related. I would 100% prefer DQ music being orchestrated though.
 

Small Red Boy

▲ Legend ▲
Member
May 9, 2019
2,673
I'll just add that if someone wants to be respected in death, they should gain that respect in life and not act like absolute fucking cunts.