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Koichi Sugiyama, composer of Dragon Quest, has passed away (SEE STAFF POST)

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Rogote

Rogote

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,606
Mass Effect said:
I'm going to offer up a different take here than most people: I'm not concerned with being morally better than someone in this context.

In many instances I simply don't care about whether I'm a "good person", especially to right-leaning types. If being glad (or unconcerned at best) about a person's death, who has caused demonstrable harm while alive, makes me horrible to you? So be it.
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I agree. I never actually set out to be some paragon or beacon of morality. I only set out to not be an actively bad or harmful person. Especially when it comes to people like Sugiyama I don't care what other people think about where my moral standing lies exactly if I express no sympathy for the death of a known monster. If someone thinks that makes me bad as well then I don't actually feel like that's on me, but on them.
 
Watchtower

Watchtower

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,624
Bate said:
Celebrating the death of a person who exhibited disguting behavior makes you a person who exhibits disgusting behavior. You are not better.
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Leo

Leo

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,546
PlanetSmasher said:
I imagine the "Dragon Quest style" isn't going anywhere, for sure, but Sugiyama had been phoning shit in for a decade on a level that makes Motoi Sakuraba's recent Tales work sound like peak Uematsu. Literally anyone else doing the job would try harder than he did almost by default. You'd have to actively go out of your way and set your mind specifically to composing something as boring as DQXI's overworld theme.
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Yeah, the new music in XI was pretty whatever. I didn't mind it much because it was reminescent of oldschool style videogame music (and I think that was the intention since the game was kind of a homage to DQ3), but only a couple of pieces were actaully great, and I don't find myself going back to it as much as I do with the other soundtracks in the series.
 
Choppasmith

Choppasmith

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,409
Beaumont, CA
Oh boy, what a thread to wake up to.

I do love his music (never bought his CDs though), he also played a huge role in starting the orchestral game concerts in the 90s which really elevated game music as a genre and listen to it a lot but his beliefs and greed are absolutely disgusting and I hope SE wastes no time fixing the mess that is his music. Really hope DQ12 has a new fresh soundtrack.
 
Thekeats

Thekeats

Member
Nov 1, 2017
651
Bate said:
Celebrating the death of a person who exhibited disguting behavior makes you a person who exhibits disgusting behavior. You are not better.
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Really? I mean in my life I have never tried to opress the LGBT+ community. I have never used my personal money in that opression. I have never laughed about them committing suicide. I have never denied the rape of nanking happened or any of the other atrocities cause by the Japanese Army during WWII.

So me not giving a flying fuck over this inhuman piece of shit. I am ripping the piss out of 1 man, while he actively did it to thousands, tens of thousands or millions of people. I am quite happy with that stain on my soul (well if I believed in religion anyway, but that is besides the point).
 
Watchtower

Watchtower

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,624
So I'm not a fan of DQ, so I don't have the attachment to Sugiyama's music the way long-time fans do. I'm not going to piss on them being rattled by the loss of the man responsible for some truly legendary music. It is legitimately sad that such an influential man was also so reprehensible, so monstrous, capable of such hate.

I still literally cheered seeing the headlines when I woke up this morning. There are few people who I believe deserve to die, few people that I believe would literally benefit the world just by dropping dead, and Sugiyama is one of them. At the very least DQ's music should now be free to truly modernize and grow outside of his draconian stranglehold. At the very least you won't have such an influential man spewing and supporting such outright hate - even if his estate continued support in spirit they'll never have the clout that he himself had. And the man lived a long life, he doesn't need my sympathy, certainly doesn't deserve it.

May he burn in the pits of hell.
 
Westbahnhof

Westbahnhof

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
10,104
Austria
As I play most games without music, I've never actually experienced his work. I kinda feel like this works in my favor, because having read about this guys opinions, I'd hate to feel attached to his work.
I get that he was probably beloved by many people, but, you know. Hard to feel bad.
 
Cloud-Hidden

Cloud-Hidden

Member
Oct 30, 2017
4,980
I find I'm having really difficult emotions trying to process this. The music in Dragon Warrior changed my life. I wouldn't be where I am today without it.
 
SFLUFAN

SFLUFAN

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,375
Alexandria, VA
Mass Effect said:
I'm going to offer up a different take here than most people: I'm not concerned with being morally better than someone in this context.

In many instances I simply don't care about whether I'm a "good person", especially to right-leaning types. If being glad (or unconcerned at best) about a person's death, who has caused demonstrable harm while alive, makes me horrible to you? So be it.
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Hear! Hear!

I'm in absolute, thorough agreement with this!
 

DoofTroop

Alt account
Banned
Sep 29, 2021
100
Bate said:
Celebrating the death of a person who exhibited disguting behavior makes you a person who exhibits disgusting behavior. You are not better.
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Nope don't care

This guy caused measurable harm when he was alive, I'm glad he's dead so he doesn't do anything else, and I give zero shits if that makes me a bad person
 
DanarchyReigns

DanarchyReigns

Member
Oct 25, 2017
34,760
Westbahnhof said:
Sorry for the double post, but I gotta tag you real quick. Someone please exlain the MIDI thing
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Sugiyama composed two versions of each song. An orchestral version, and a synthesized MIDI version.
Whenever a new DQ is made, he only allows them to use the MIDI tracks as he believes having the orchestral tracks would keep people from seeing his live concerts or buying his albums. This of course really screwed over Western fans as they had no way of seeing his concerts without paying a lot to travel to Japan. He only allows the orchestral tracks to be used in remakes made years afterwards, and even then it's only the Japanese versions.
When Dragon Quest XI came out, the use of MIDI really annoyed a lot of people (not helped that XI's soundtrack was weak overall). It was so bad that Nintendo used the orchestral music as a SELLING POINT.
 
Rockets

Rockets

Member
Sep 12, 2018
3,010
He made some great and iconic music no doubt but he was still a piece of shit and a monster.
 
Boogiepop

Boogiepop

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,966
I've been a fan of the Dragon Quest series for quite a while, even imported a DQ themed 3DS and the games that didn't come out over here to play them.

I still have yet to purchase or play XI, and that was because I learned of how awful his views were in the lead up and couldn't justify supporting that, love of the series be damned.

I see that XIS is on sale on Steam, and I'll probably buy it as a result of this news, to be perfectly honest.
 
AIan

AIan

Member
Oct 20, 2019
4,836
Westbahnhof said:
Sorry for the double post, but I gotta tag you real quick. Someone please exlain the MIDI thing
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Without getting technical, when people say "MIDI" while listening to music, they're referring to poorly done music that sounds like a regurgitation of synthetic and clearly un-orchestrated noises. And, it's true. If you played the original version of DQ11, the entire game's soundtrack sounded as if someone plugged in sound samples and barely tried to make them sound authentic.
 
Youabra

Youabra

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
892
Spain
"You shouldn't be happy about the guy that would probably dance on your grave because you're gay dying!" sure is a take I didn't expect to see today.

Like many, I liked the music, but that's about it. Rip I guess.
 
DanarchyReigns

DanarchyReigns

Member
Oct 25, 2017
34,760
Here's something interesting to note.

Here's the official OST to Dragon Quest XI. Taken directly from the album.



Notice how it's only about 90 minutes long. Now, here's ALL the music that was featured in Dragon Quest XI (as taken from the game).



Notice how it's over SIX HOURS. That's basically a big tell that the vast majority of the game's music was recycled from older games.
I know that XI was meant to be a big anniversary title (it was probably intended for the 30th anniversary in 2016, but missed the mark and came out in 2017). There are clear moments in the game meant to invoke past titles (the Coliseum battle is meant to be a reference to DQ IV, with the same music and similar opponents). But I don't think that's a good excuse to reuse so much. Even when Final Fantasy reused tracks from old games, Uematsu would at least remix it in some form. Add a new flair to it. Sugiyama never did that.
 
Thordinson

Thordinson

Banned
Aug 1, 2018
17,906
Bate said:
Celebrating the death of a person who exhibited disguting behavior makes you a person who exhibits disgusting behavior. You are not better.
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Not in the slightlest.

A poster going "Yay!" is not the same as a person who donated to right-wing causes including war crime denial, denying LGBTQ+ people their human rights, and denying gender equality.
 
Vonocourt

Vonocourt

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,605
TIL I learned posting on a message board rude comments about a dead dude that'll be seen by hundreds of people at the most means I'm equal to a man who had the capability and funds to try to buy out ad space in the Washington Post and New York Times for the purpose of running a multipage long screed written to erase the Nanjing Massacre from US awareness and was a board member of Ultra-nationalist far-right think tank with the motive to promote bigoted and harmful ideas.

Like stop with your pig-headed shit, you're not trying to spread a call of balanced reasoning and decency, you're telling marginalized groups to shut up with criticisms and ire against a man who had far more power and influence than most of the people he used his position to attack will ever have. All for the appearance of civility for a man who literally did not give a fuck about it. Like the fact that I've seen so many variations of the phrase "he laughed at LGBTQ suicides" so many times in this thread to the point I feel like I'm experiencing a visual form of semantic satiation, and you dickbags keep coming in with "oh respect the dead" like that really means anything.

Maybe stop thinking about fighting for this dead cunt and listen and try to understand the emotions and fears that many of your fellow community members feel every day thanks to the rhetoric of his ilk.
 
metalslimer

metalslimer

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
9,558
Haha yasssss. Now maybe I don't have to hear his shit in DQ or feel like my purchase is giving him money. Piece of shit
 
Razmos

Razmos

Unshakeable One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 28, 2017
15,888
Vonocourt said:
TIL I learned posting on a message board rude comments about a dead dude that'll be seen by hundreds of people at the most means I'm equal to a man who had the capability and funds to try to buy out ad space in the Washington Post and New York Times for the purpose of running a multipage long screed written to erase the Nanjing Massacre from US awareness and was a board member of Ultra-nationalist far-right think tank with the motive to promote bigoted and harmful ideas.

Like stop with your pig-headed shit, you're not trying to spread a call of balanced reasoning and decency, you're telling marginalized groups to shut up with criticisms and ire against a man who had far more power and influence than most of the people he used his position to attack will ever have. All for the appearance of civility for a man who literally did not give a fuck about it. Like the fact that I've seen so many variations of the phrase "he laughed at LGBTQ suicides" so many times in this thread to the point I feel like I'm experiencing a visual form of semantic satiation, and you dickbags keep coming in with "oh respect the dead" like that really means anything.

Maybe stop thinking about fighting for this dead cunt and listen and try to understand the emotions and fears that many of your fellow community members feel every day thanks to the rhetoric of his ilk.
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Well said
 
Sophistry

Sophistry

Banned
Jun 12, 2021
383
As Dragon Warrior 4 was the first RPG I played as a kid multiple times through, hunting for all it's secret, his music was truly magnificent. But his more recent output wasn't nearly as ear-wormy. Regardless, I feel obliged to link his track, Elegy, from DW/DQ 4, one of the most mournful and beautiful pieces of music I've ever heard.

 
jett

jett

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
44,646
DanarchyReigns said:
Here's something interesting to note.

Here's the official OST to Dragon Quest XI. Taken directly from the album.



Notice how it's only about 90 minutes long. Now, here's ALL the music that was featured in Dragon Quest XI (as taken from the game).



Notice how it's over SIX HOURS. That's basically a big tell that the vast majority of the game's music was recycled from older games.
I know that XI was meant to be a big anniversary title (it was probably intended for the 30th anniversary in 2016, but missed the mark and came out in 2017). There are clear moments in the game meant to invoke past titles (the Coliseum battle is meant to be a reference to DQ IV, with the same music and similar opponents). But I don't think that's a good excuse to reuse so much. Even when Final Fantasy reused tracks from old games, Uematsu would at least remix it in some form. Add a new flair to it. Sugiyama never did that.
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No doubt he didn't have it in him anymore to compose a full soundtrack, and never hired someone to work with him so that he could keep all those juicy rights all to himself.

purseowner said:
No, I mean his estate might still heavily control how his music is presented and used
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Oh well, I wouldn't be surprised if his arcane bullshit carried on. Personally I'm more thinking about the future, a future with a Sugiyama-less Dragon Quest.
 
Meows

Meows

Member
Oct 28, 2017
6,399
Sugiyama made some wonderful music prior to XI, some of my favorites in gaming even. The symphonic scores were incredible. But the man should have retired ages ago as judged by the quality of his output in XI. His later war crime denial comments were reprehensible. I hope that his successor is much less controversial and helps steer the series into a brighter path.
 
DanarchyReigns

DanarchyReigns

Member
Oct 25, 2017
34,760
jett said:
No doubt he didn't have it in him anymore to compose a full soundtrack, and never hired someone to work with him so that he could keep all those juicy rights all to himself.


Oh well, I wouldn't be surprised if his arcane bullshit carried on. Personally I'm more thinking about the future, a future with a Sugiyama-less Dragon Quest.
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Yeah... along with his homophobia and denial of history, he was insanely greedy. Absolute scum from top to bottom.

His music is going to stick around in some form. The main theme is never going away. The question is on who gets the rights.
 
nikos

nikos

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,998
New York, NY
User Banned (Permanent): Concern trolling across multiple posts with regards to homophobia and war crime denial, three previous bans for downplaying and excusing racism and bigotry
Bate said:
Celebrating the death of a person who exhibited disguting behavior makes you a person who exhibits disgusting behavior. You are not better.
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This thread does not align with that recent age poll. Lots of people in here have clearly never lost anybody close to them. Childish behavior.
 
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