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Knives Out | Spoiler Thread | Whodonut?
- Thread starter Jam
- Start date
You can say Steven Moffat
But yeah, a lot of mysteries really try to keep their big reveal as secretive as possible, which often involves withholding information or making the murder method so convoluted that it's confusing and not engaging. I appreciate the fact that this movie doesn't do that, and I don't consider it a flaw that the identity of the killer is fairly obvious. I think figuring out twists ahead of time because the movie doesn't withhold information makes it more fun
He did that whenever they went out of topic or subject of investigation
He did it so the police ask at what time did that person arrive at the party.
Just came out of the cinema. Loved it through and through. Some of the character could've gotten a bit more screen time but overall it's a minor gripe I have. Loved the ending on the visuals of the American women dressed in Red/White/Blue looking up to Marta with the blanket dressed in Green/White/Red of the coffee mug.
Craig was excellent, next to Layer Cake probably my favourite performance of him. Though he's stellar in Road to Perdition too.
Can't wait to see it again.
Craig was excellent, next to Layer Cake probably my favourite performance of him. Though he's stellar in Road to Perdition too.
Can't wait to see it again.
Saw it and loved it. Rian Jhonson confirms himself as a man of screenplay, his self confidence is showing here.
First, the movie gives you this rule: the characters can lie but the camera doesn't. So you get shown what happened to the family and you think it's that kind of movie. Then that same camera shows you part of the murder and you think it's that other kind of movie.
Then, you see all of it and start to cheer for the "murderer" in some way, and again you think you got what the movie is. But still, you get the sense that something is off. Finally you get your fucking plot twist and come full circle.
A moment of genius to me was the classic "I know what you did", with the protagonist being blackmailed and subsequently framed. Normally, during this scenes your feel sad and angry for the protagonist, but here you are fucking happy that it's happening, since it means that she's completely innocent. Great film!
First, the movie gives you this rule: the characters can lie but the camera doesn't. So you get shown what happened to the family and you think it's that kind of movie. Then that same camera shows you part of the murder and you think it's that other kind of movie.
Then, you see all of it and start to cheer for the "murderer" in some way, and again you think you got what the movie is. But still, you get the sense that something is off. Finally you get your fucking plot twist and come full circle.
A moment of genius to me was the classic "I know what you did", with the protagonist being blackmailed and subsequently framed. Normally, during this scenes your feel sad and angry for the protagonist, but here you are fucking happy that it's happening, since it means that she's completely innocent. Great film!
Saw this last night. Loved Craig in this film. He was just a pleasure to listen to. The film was shot brilliantly. Solid 8 or 9/10 for me. Thoroughly enjoyable. Check it out y'all!
This movie was such a joy to watch. I just couldn't stop grinning the whole time. This, Irishman and Joker are my favorites for the year
This was such a fun ride. Ana de Armas was so good in this, I was rooting so hard for Marta. Definitely one of my favorite movies of the year and I'm glad the film is doing well.
A very fun ride. The mystery itself is rather barebone and basic but the human drama all around it is very good.
My favorite film of the year (so far). The whole family saw it Thanksgiving weekend...and then all went again the following week. Just a joy from start to finish. Ana de Armas gives such an incredible performance, in a film filled with them.
Some random details spotted on repeat viewings, which I didn't see mentioned (apologies if I missed them):
-When Marta climbs through the secret window, she steps OVER the window sill, so it can't be her mud print left there. To seal it home, when we see Ransom go through the window near the end, his heel clips the sill right where the mud was.
-The blackmail letter has clearly been opened already; the seal was broken and the adhesive dirty when Marta opens it.
-Linda saying you need to find a "game" to communicate with Harlon -> Linda standing at a window holding a handful of his secret messages (some with slightly burned pages) during the "I keep waiting for the big reveal" scene -> her revealing the message at the end = my favorite subplot. (Also, she's right - Marta's game with Harlon is Go.)
-When Marta initially leaves the night of Harlon's death, she announces the time as midnight, per Harlan's instructions. Walt then checks his watch. When we see Lt. Elliot go through Walt's version, we see a version of the scene where Marta does not mention the time as she leaves. Walt makes it sound like he noticed the time on his own to try and impress the detectives with his attention to detail. Love how the film shows the family to be unreliable narrators, and in so doing adds to their characters.
-The scene where Marta thinks she poisons Thromby is VERY carefully filmed, with a lot of focus on the bottles and Marta's instinctual handing of them.
Every clue Blanc outlines in his library scene is there. The film doesn't cheat and I love it for that.
Beyond the clues, I loved the scene of Harlon and Marta playing Go. The way they are talking, giving each other shit, just radiates with the warm affection of two close friends who know each other well. It's a sublimely written and acted scene, which quickly establishes both Harlon and (crucially) Marta as very likable characters.
"the Nazi boy masturbating in the bathroom" was the funniest line reading I've seen this year, and the donut-in-the-donut bit the funniest writing. Craig was having an absolute hoot the entire film.
THAT CLOSING SHOT holy shit. I nearly leaped out of my seat, so good.
Some random details spotted on repeat viewings, which I didn't see mentioned (apologies if I missed them):
-When Marta climbs through the secret window, she steps OVER the window sill, so it can't be her mud print left there. To seal it home, when we see Ransom go through the window near the end, his heel clips the sill right where the mud was.
-The blackmail letter has clearly been opened already; the seal was broken and the adhesive dirty when Marta opens it.
-Linda saying you need to find a "game" to communicate with Harlon -> Linda standing at a window holding a handful of his secret messages (some with slightly burned pages) during the "I keep waiting for the big reveal" scene -> her revealing the message at the end = my favorite subplot. (Also, she's right - Marta's game with Harlon is Go.)
-When Marta initially leaves the night of Harlon's death, she announces the time as midnight, per Harlan's instructions. Walt then checks his watch. When we see Lt. Elliot go through Walt's version, we see a version of the scene where Marta does not mention the time as she leaves. Walt makes it sound like he noticed the time on his own to try and impress the detectives with his attention to detail. Love how the film shows the family to be unreliable narrators, and in so doing adds to their characters.
-The scene where Marta thinks she poisons Thromby is VERY carefully filmed, with a lot of focus on the bottles and Marta's instinctual handing of them.
Every clue Blanc outlines in his library scene is there. The film doesn't cheat and I love it for that.
Beyond the clues, I loved the scene of Harlon and Marta playing Go. The way they are talking, giving each other shit, just radiates with the warm affection of two close friends who know each other well. It's a sublimely written and acted scene, which quickly establishes both Harlon and (crucially) Marta as very likable characters.
"the Nazi boy masturbating in the bathroom" was the funniest line reading I've seen this year, and the donut-in-the-donut bit the funniest writing. Craig was having an absolute hoot the entire film.
THAT CLOSING SHOT holy shit. I nearly leaped out of my seat, so good.
Some nice catches there, thanks. Yeah, that ending is just *chef's kiss*. I loved it to bits. Craig really nailed his part as well. I loved his performance.
I think that's really why I like it so much. It doesn't try to give you whiplash with a back and forth guessing game. It being more straightforward and focusing on the characters was just what I needed.
That's awesome to hear. I love mysteries and movies with twists, but always feel cheated when they just throw out a twist based on information never given to the viewer. I really need to get my butt to the theater to see this asap.
Honestly the fact that the actual death is shown so soon in the film confused me, but the story afterwards made the entire film even better. I went with my girlfriend today and I am going to take my mother next weekend. This was a great film.
Finally saw it. I had a good time, although I don't think I share the unbridled enthusiasm a lot of people had (and I expected to have, honestly).
Some stuff I loved, first:
-Daniel Craig was a joy. I love his cartoon American accents so much, he really leans into them in a way that plays against his leading man looks and pedigree and it's always a blast. This was one of my favorite parts of Logan Lucky as well.
-Marta was a great protagonist, and her absurd literal bullshit allergy was a great tool for a mystery story and was used really well here (EXCEPT was anyone else expecting the Big Gulp cup to pay off?)
-Similar to the above, the scene with Marta and Thromby Sr. was just fantastic. Really sold their relationship and created genuine sympathy for Marta. Probably one of the best scenes in the film, and couldn't have come at a better time (I'll get to that in the negatives).
-When it was actually allowed to happen, the family dynamic was hilarious. The handful of ensemble scenes we got were excellent for the most part.
-I might need to rewatch it to really judge this, but I think pretty much everything was carefully laid out? The movie plays a weird trick for the first half, honestly maybe even two thirds where it behaves like it is pulling things out of its ass when really it isn't. I have mixed feelings on how successful this was, but when I realized that Fran absolutely had babbled about having a cousin in toxicology near the beginning I figured I'll give it the benefit of the doubt here--there's some other good stuff like the way Marta entering the secret window is shot, the grandma saying "back again" etc etc that paid off well. The ransom (lol) note being already opened and the detail about the dogs barking was stuff I caught too.
The stuff I liked less:
-The first act where the characters are introduced in the interviews and the party is shown in snippets is a poor way to open the film, in my opinion. The problem with this structure is it jumps around between key points and interactions. I appreciate that it was trying to show that all of these people were unreliable narrators and setting up that anything we can see happening is the objective truth, but the problems I have with it are 1. by chopping it up it drew attention immediately to what details were clues and which ones weren't and 2. it kept yanking us away from the ensemble. It reminded me of that recut Arrested Development season with all the scenes rearranged in chronological order. I desperately wish we could have seen the whole party scene without the intercutting. I felt like the movie wasn't trusting me to pay attention.
-Likewise, I feel like the movie definitely doesn't trust the audience with its central allegory. I found all of the real-world political asides excruciating. There are far better ways to establish a character is an alt-right troll or whatever than just having characters yell (twice!) "they're a freaking alt right troll!!" at us. Likewise to the "SJW degree" "Neo-Marxist major" stuff. The fact that all of the people in this family were rich republicans was dead obvious from the jump, and all of this stuff felt way too on the nose. The exception, I think, is the scene where the two sons argue about immigration, which is still not exactly subtle, but at least feels like characters actually talking (and it includes a setup for an excellent payoff, e.g the one brother using Marta's family situation against her as soon as money gets involved) and has some more subtle character stuff like someone being vocally sympathetic to Marta while handing her an empty plate. By the time Ransom literally starts talking about the family's birthright etc, I was rolling my eyes. It could be an apt allegory with either the explicit contemporary political statements or the broader gestures at a political metaphor, but I think mixing both was just too much. Incidentally, I think I need to watch the movie again, but I feel like it comes uncomfortably close to the style of argument for immigration that posits that immigration is good because immigrants work hard, which is... well-meaning, but still ultimately treats people like tools rather than human beings. I think the final conversation with Benoit and Marta is maybe there to circumvent this reading specifically, so like I said before, I might just need to watch it again. The people next to me were talking during this part and I might've missed some key dialogue.
-They really should've let "Hugh did this" marinate a little longer. That's such a good and funny payoff but we get it like five minutes after it's said!
Speaking of needing to watch it again, I was right up in the neckbreaker seats staring up at the screen and could not for the life of me read what the note in invisible ink said at the end. I missed that entire subplot's resolution, so if someone could help me out I'd appreciate it!
Anyway, I enjoyed it overall. It was very funny, good-natured, and well-meaning, just maybe a little bit too concerned with really making you understand exactly what its themes were.
Some stuff I loved, first:
-Daniel Craig was a joy. I love his cartoon American accents so much, he really leans into them in a way that plays against his leading man looks and pedigree and it's always a blast. This was one of my favorite parts of Logan Lucky as well.
-Marta was a great protagonist, and her absurd literal bullshit allergy was a great tool for a mystery story and was used really well here (EXCEPT was anyone else expecting the Big Gulp cup to pay off?)
-Similar to the above, the scene with Marta and Thromby Sr. was just fantastic. Really sold their relationship and created genuine sympathy for Marta. Probably one of the best scenes in the film, and couldn't have come at a better time (I'll get to that in the negatives).
-When it was actually allowed to happen, the family dynamic was hilarious. The handful of ensemble scenes we got were excellent for the most part.
-I might need to rewatch it to really judge this, but I think pretty much everything was carefully laid out? The movie plays a weird trick for the first half, honestly maybe even two thirds where it behaves like it is pulling things out of its ass when really it isn't. I have mixed feelings on how successful this was, but when I realized that Fran absolutely had babbled about having a cousin in toxicology near the beginning I figured I'll give it the benefit of the doubt here--there's some other good stuff like the way Marta entering the secret window is shot, the grandma saying "back again" etc etc that paid off well. The ransom (lol) note being already opened and the detail about the dogs barking was stuff I caught too.
The stuff I liked less:
-The first act where the characters are introduced in the interviews and the party is shown in snippets is a poor way to open the film, in my opinion. The problem with this structure is it jumps around between key points and interactions. I appreciate that it was trying to show that all of these people were unreliable narrators and setting up that anything we can see happening is the objective truth, but the problems I have with it are 1. by chopping it up it drew attention immediately to what details were clues and which ones weren't and 2. it kept yanking us away from the ensemble. It reminded me of that recut Arrested Development season with all the scenes rearranged in chronological order. I desperately wish we could have seen the whole party scene without the intercutting. I felt like the movie wasn't trusting me to pay attention.
-Likewise, I feel like the movie definitely doesn't trust the audience with its central allegory. I found all of the real-world political asides excruciating. There are far better ways to establish a character is an alt-right troll or whatever than just having characters yell (twice!) "they're a freaking alt right troll!!" at us. Likewise to the "SJW degree" "Neo-Marxist major" stuff. The fact that all of the people in this family were rich republicans was dead obvious from the jump, and all of this stuff felt way too on the nose. The exception, I think, is the scene where the two sons argue about immigration, which is still not exactly subtle, but at least feels like characters actually talking (and it includes a setup for an excellent payoff, e.g the one brother using Marta's family situation against her as soon as money gets involved) and has some more subtle character stuff like someone being vocally sympathetic to Marta while handing her an empty plate. By the time Ransom literally starts talking about the family's birthright etc, I was rolling my eyes. It could be an apt allegory with either the explicit contemporary political statements or the broader gestures at a political metaphor, but I think mixing both was just too much. Incidentally, I think I need to watch the movie again, but I feel like it comes uncomfortably close to the style of argument for immigration that posits that immigration is good because immigrants work hard, which is... well-meaning, but still ultimately treats people like tools rather than human beings. I think the final conversation with Benoit and Marta is maybe there to circumvent this reading specifically, so like I said before, I might just need to watch it again. The people next to me were talking during this part and I might've missed some key dialogue.
-They really should've let "Hugh did this" marinate a little longer. That's such a good and funny payoff but we get it like five minutes after it's said!
Speaking of needing to watch it again, I was right up in the neckbreaker seats staring up at the screen and could not for the life of me read what the note in invisible ink said at the end. I missed that entire subplot's resolution, so if someone could help me out I'd appreciate it!
Anyway, I enjoyed it overall. It was very funny, good-natured, and well-meaning, just maybe a little bit too concerned with really making you understand exactly what its themes were.
Ghaleon first omg it's so awesome to see you!
Second those are fantastic little details I didn't catch. Thanks for sharing them. I really really loved this film.
Masturbating Nazi Boy is the best grouping of words I've heard in a very long time
Am I the only one who tacitly understood that Marta and Blanc were in cahoots? He figures it out mid-time and confronts her with the truth, and asks her for a cut to complement her alibi and incriminate Ransom. And re-watched it again with this theory in mind and it works just as well.
I got the feeling that this will be further explained in a subsequent cut and a way for Rian to surprise audiences.
I got the feeling that this will be further explained in a subsequent cut and a way for Rian to surprise audiences.
I took it as him going in on the whole "it's not the crime, it's the coverup" idea that's quite relevant in our country right now.
I just saw it and thought it was a hoot. My only gripe is that once it's revealed early on that Harlan killed himself as a result of mixed bottles, the supporting cast falls to the backside and Marta becomes such a big focus that they get lost. It also eliminates a good amount of suspects so you aren't as on your toes. Still, the attention to detail is great as the film does not cheat you at all. I called certain things, but never called Ransom being the murderer. Of course, he felt like the obvious choice since he had the most to gain and had prior knowledge about the will. But, since he was so obvious a suspect I didn't believe it was him, which of course it was.
I knew that despite Marta was confessing something was wrong because at the very start of the film its stated quite clearly that she always leaves her medical bag at Harlan's. Thus, when she thought the bottles got switched I knew something was likely up and she may not have killed him. But, the theory I had for a long time was that Harlan wasn't dead and he was just playing an elaborate murder mystery on his family to see who deserved to be in his will. I figured he'd switched the bottles and made Marta think she killed him, afterall his plan was to elaborate and specific to come up with on the fly.
As I said, I never would've guessed Harlan orchestrated the murder and later attempts to expose Marta.
That doesn't make any sense, why would Ransom confess then?
I knew that despite Marta was confessing something was wrong because at the very start of the film its stated quite clearly that she always leaves her medical bag at Harlan's. Thus, when she thought the bottles got switched I knew something was likely up and she may not have killed him. But, the theory I had for a long time was that Harlan wasn't dead and he was just playing an elaborate murder mystery on his family to see who deserved to be in his will. I figured he'd switched the bottles and made Marta think she killed him, afterall his plan was to elaborate and specific to come up with on the fly.
As I said, I never would've guessed Harlan orchestrated the murder and later attempts to expose Marta.
That doesn't make any sense, why would Ransom confess then?
They're both excellent actors, and could easily pull it off anyway, but there's a certain magic you can sense when two actors have a genuinely good relationship off camera. I think it was clear that de Armas and Plummer got along famously while shooting the movie, and their scenes together feel so much more natural as a result.
Oh, and Ana de Armas is pretty much the most beautiful women on the planet. As if Blade Runner 2049 didn't make that clear.
Yes, but he killed Fran because she was blackmailing him and he needed that Toxc report since he needed to frame Marta. Why confess to all of that if he never actually attempted to kill Harlan by switching the bottles? Also, Rian has gone on record saying he's not a fan of Director's Cuts and what you see is what he wanted.
It doesn't really show you much of the text, you're meant to know what's in it from earlier in the movie.
It's the note from the scene where Harlan was threatening to expose Richard's affair. Earlier in the movie, Richard gets into the office and digs out the letter, but when he opens the letter it appears to be blank. He thinks the note was just a prop and leaves the "empty" note on the desk with the envelope, then picks up the baseball and throws it out the window in frustration at being tricked. That baseball gets picked up by Blanc, who later throws it for the dog to fetch, who later brings it to Linda, who recognizes where it came from and goes to put it back. When she does, she notices the discarded "blank" note and the envelope marked "L" and knows what to do with it.
Now that I actually put it like that, it's interesting because it means Richard similarly can't tell a prop knife from a real one (albeit in a more metaphorical sense this time) while Linda can. Like father, like son.
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One of the funnest movies I've ever seen. Sooo many great moments and it seemed like the actors were having a blast making this. Really need to watch it gain, the attention to detail was so good.
My only criticism of the movie is that I feel like the Fran scene -- or simply news of her murder -- should have occurred roughly halfway through the film, so we the audience would have seen (and been surprised by) an actual murder to raise the stakes a bit. And a slightly more suspenseful reveal of the killer scene. There was just something a bit rushed and anticlimactic from the moment Marta discovered Fran's dying body.
Great, fun movie. I think the real antecedent to this movie is Sleuth, with Laurence Olivier and Michael Caine (there was also a remake with Michael Caine and Jude Law). And if you enjoyed Southern Daniel Craig, definitely check out Logan Lucky (another good mystery movie, too).
The funniest line for me was "Nobody has [read Gravity's Rainbow]." It's true!
The movie really did make me want to start wearing sweaters.
Stop trying to "figure out" what the writers and directors are going to tell you and just let them do it and you'll have more fun with books and movies.
The funniest line for me was "Nobody has [read Gravity's Rainbow]." It's true!
The movie really did make me want to start wearing sweaters.
Stop trying to "figure out" what the writers and directors are going to tell you and just let them do it and you'll have more fun with books and movies.
What a massively overrated and generally boring movie. Went on Saturday night and almost fell asleep. Definitely not something I will watch again.
I'm in the same boat now I think. I've seen it twice and now I have no desire to ever watch it again. I can't help but wish someone like Wes Anderson had directed his script instead to add some real cinematic flair and style to it to make it a bit less sterile and more interesting on future watches. As it happens the second watch through was arduously slow for me, and highlighted how plain most of the cinematography was.
Anyone catch what the Protonmail address was that Ransom used to Blackmail Marta with? I imagine if you messaged that 6 digit protonmail address, it could be that you get a cool response in return (Like a bonus easter egg or something).
I fucking loved it. I've always been much more of a Columbo guy than a Christie guy so when it swerved half way through I was fucking delighted. Rian is amazing.
End movie spoiler question
I couldn't get over this how everyone just casually dismissed her actions throughout the movie at the end.
Marta may be innocent in terms of murder but how is it possible she's not guilty of obstruction of justice, lying to the police and withholding of evidence?
She didn't actually do anything that obstructed the investigation. If anything her actions kept them on the right track the entire time, had she not done what she had done they would have arrested the wrong person and the killer gone free.
The story here was just so clever and well put together. I thought it was going to be this Columbo type film after Marta's initial flashback and it played out that way the entire time. I figured the big moment would be Blanc having to decide between the truth and doing what's right by everyone involved, but then the curveball comes and the rainbow lands where you should have expected it to land at the start, but were led to believe was a red herring.
The story here is just so incredibly well put together, the final twist is just immaculate.
I disagree. She lied when she said she didn't know anything, hid the whole charade and even ruined the 'crime scene' with the mud footprints. It was only by accident she wasn't guilty of killing him, but she was clearly acting in bad faith the whole time.
The move makes it crystal clear throughout the film that Meg is just as horrible and as selfish as the rest of the family. Her actions showed her character.
Ironically, Columbo did do exactly this in one of the episodes. But while it was a clever idea, for that specific episode they didn't lay it out as well as Knives Out did.
I honestly pray it's what they're setting up here.
Been a while since I've seen a good ol' bonafide mystery.
Also the trailer for this movie sucked
I had to be talked into going to see it because I found Rian's other films either bad (tlj) or mediocre (looper), and given the trailer I really couldn't be bothered. But it's an excellent film, and it always annoys me when excellent films have bad trailers.
I had to be talked into going to see it because I found Rian's other films either bad (tlj) or mediocre (looper), and given the trailer I really couldn't be bothered. But it's an excellent film, and it always annoys me when excellent films have bad trailers.
Randsom didn't leave any footprints on that walk, remember? Had she done nothing, they'd have gotten the wrong person.
It wasn't really by mistake that she didn't kill him either, she instinctually knew which bottle was which.
She was obfuscating a crime she didn't commit against a person who literally instructed her to get away with the crime.
She was not acting in bad faith lol