Did you even roll on the floor? Smh. And yes I'm actually s-ing mh
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Knives out is a terrible who done it. Open spoilers
- Thread starter Thornton Reed
- Start date
"In a medium where everything is Agatha Christie, Knives Out is Schindler's List."
How a movie is marketed and what a movie actually is are regularly not the same thing. Hell, you could even argue that the marketing as a straight up mystery movie is part of why the subversion works as well as it does.
I love Knives Out, but come on. Subverting the whodunnit by making the killer obvious, throwing doubt on it and circling back is the oldest trick in the book.
It tries to shake you by making you believe it's not a whodunnit at all. The movie works in spite of whether or not you buy into that, IMO, because it's a character study of horrible rich people that's entertaining beyond it's central mystery.
The actual core mystery would have played better as a long form TV series tbh.
OP says that Chris Evans is too obvious as the killer, because he's playing a douchebag. I'm pointing out that not only is the movie not about "who did it", and that Chris Evans playing a douchebag isn't novel, it's a return to form for him.
Exactly
It's also about class in America.
All of these super literal takes always ignore the themes.
The movie literally tells you who did it right after the opening, and then the rest of the movie is the audience hoping the killer can get away with it. If you think it's a bad whodunnit, it's because it's not trying to be one - it's trying to flip that formula on its head.
Yeah but I feel we get a LTTP every couple of months for this movie and it's only people who want to make sure everyone knows they don't like it. I guess there isn't anything wrong with that though.
And it's obviously a play on who dunnits. The red hearing obvious killer and motive actually end up being the killer and motive. It comically simple in that point on purpose as most of the actual movie is exploring all the other little betrayals of the rest of the family. The entire movie is about in what ways they are all guilty.
Rian does this with his other movies and its why Brothers Bloom is my favorite caper film of all time. Though the cons are elaborate they are just a medium for the exploration of the three main characters which it does very well.
That's what I meant, I don't want to imply that's the only reason why it's subverting the genre. But intentionally stepping away from a whodunnit style of story by, among other things, making it obvious who the killer is, is the reason why the movie works as well as it does.
This is such a surface level take away. Its not even about who actually "done it," but the game being played between all of the ensemble cast, and the way that game was set into motion by the dead person at the center of the mystery.
Go watch it again in a week and appreciate how good it actually is divorced from your own expectations. Seriously, its the type of movie that gets better on a rewatch.
Go watch it again in a week and appreciate how good it actually is divorced from your own expectations. Seriously, its the type of movie that gets better on a rewatch.
Chris Evans is easily the worst part of the movie. Shame it was so damn transparent that he was the one very early on.
rest of the cast was amazing
rest of the cast was amazing
People in this thread acting like if you don't think this movie is great you are some kind of dumbass are wonderful. You can understand the point of the movie and not care for it.
The movie was also clearly marketed as a whodunit.
The movie was also clearly marketed as a whodunit.
OP
OP
I kinda agree, it wouldn't be such a big deal if all the trailers weren't so self-fellating with the whole "A whodunnit like no one's ever done it" nonsense.
Like Johnson a ton as a filmmaker but this one had a pretty mediocre superficial script that was only halfway carried by it's stellar cast.
What kind of lame ass shit is this?
Like Johnson a ton as a filmmaker but this one had a pretty mediocre superficial script that was only halfway carried by it's stellar cast.
What kind of lame ass shit is this?
The problem with Knives Out is not its genre, but the way it treats its protagonist. It would be a much stronger film if indeed there was no 'real' murderer. By making Ransom the villain, the story frames Marta as a pingpong ball in a match between Ransom (person who set it up) and Blanc (person who is solving it). As Marta is reacting to events, she is robbed of her agency. In the end, she is saved by the 'virtues' of her character, which she had all along (being a good, humble person). There's no conflict or character growth here.
It's actually a problem with a lot of Rian Johnson's movies, which focus too much on the subversion part and leave the actual plot lacking.
I did find the social commentary and the inciting event refreshing for this type of movie.
It's actually a problem with a lot of Rian Johnson's movies, which focus too much on the subversion part and leave the actual plot lacking.
I did find the social commentary and the inciting event refreshing for this type of movie.
It's overrated but still a fine movie. I still say it needed to be 30 minutes less and have way less characters
It's a terrible mystery but a fun and well made film.
chris evans is kind of a shit actor tho. doesn't belong here.
chris evans is kind of a shit actor tho. doesn't belong here.
OP
OP
Thank you kind poster. I got everything the film was trying to say. The double crosses and knives out excuse the pun were evident the moment the family was cross examined
It wasn't about who done it
but yeah I think it should have been. I'm disappointed it wasn't because the movie the trailers and promotions put in my head I think seemed more fun and interesting than what it ended up being
but yeah I think it should have been. I'm disappointed it wasn't because the movie the trailers and promotions put in my head I think seemed more fun and interesting than what it ended up being
People like to think they're smart and figured out the movie before everyone else
these are pretty much my thoughts
it was fine
no ones ever going to come out looking good when you're up against agatha, even if youre trying to be subversive
I agree with this. I enjoyed it even if it didn't have a twist that was unexpected.
It's not a whodunnit, which is fine. But it also doesn't work as a "howcatchem," like Columbo. For that to succeed you have to be rooting AGAINST the culprit. When you see the murder occur you're waiting on how the detective will find the piece that will get the murderer.
Knives Out completely fails at this. Rosa eliminates any sort of conflict halfway through and once you know how the fake suicide happened it's just boring busy work. Rian Johnson loves to do these subversions that just don't pan out.
Knives Out completely fails at this. Rosa eliminates any sort of conflict halfway through and once you know how the fake suicide happened it's just boring busy work. Rian Johnson loves to do these subversions that just don't pan out.
To the crowd saying it isn't a who done it then why was all the marketing and whatnot pegged with "A Rian Johnson Who Dun It"?
Because film marketing is fucking terrible and trying to advertise your movie as a deconstruction of mystery films is almost impossible.
Daniel Craigs acting and class themes aside, which are good parts of the movie. Knives out is a poor mans Clue. I didn't find it to be nearly as entertaining as I was lead to believe. It was mind numbingly boring and very homogenous. I don't believe it respected me as a viewer.
To set up the expectation that it is? That's the whole point. The first act follows nearly every trope of a whodunnit because it wants to put you in that mindset before pulling the rug out.
The entire movie was predicated around a murder with a huge case of suspects. Of course it was a who done it, even if the marketing was off (which is wasn't). Like I can't believe were really going to say knives out isn't a who done it.
OP
OP
I think I answered this! How is this forum full of such pretentious arse holes. It's a film that has been talked about a lot. Praised and received critical acclaim. People don't always watch films when they first came out. I was disappointed by the film and wanted to share my thoughts
The actual mystery in the film is who hired Blanc, NOT who killed Harlan.