Klobuchar tops “the worst boss in Congress” list. Right in front of six other female senators. (Vox)

[Deleted member 9100]

Because the end result is that every female candidate has some flaw, character or otherwise, that makes them ineligible for the presidency but walking #metoo scandal Joe Biden, is top of the fucking wish list and Trump gets voted in by nearly half the fucking electorate?

I mean, come on, how perfect does a woman have to be before they can count on not being nitpicked out of the running while male candidates seemingly only get knocked out of races by being in bed with a dead girl or live boy?

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I hate this argument. Both male and female candidates should be judged on the same criteria. If a male candidate does something unforgivable (blackface), they should not get a pass when a female candidate would not.

Similarly if a female candidate does something shitty (abuse their staff), they should be treated the same as a male candidate would in that situation.

If a female candidate does something horrible, it shouldn't be, but what if this happened to a male candidate and they maybe were not held to the same standard? It should be, this is awful and if anyone else did this, male or female, it would still be awful and they would be held accountable.

 

[Arkeband]

It's strange how Klobuchar being outed as a sociopath is somehow about her gender, when a dude doing the same thing would be equally bizarre and concerning.

 

[Veliladon]

Similarly if a female candidate does something shitty (abuse their staff), they should be treated the same as a male candidate would in that situation.

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It's stupid because women are always the ones that get raked over the coals and when men do shitty things they get elected. It's like how white people and black people use drugs at the same rate but most of the people in prison for possession are black. Yeah bad behavior isn't great but there's sure as hell one group that by far gets away with it. May I suggest a hashtag like #allindiscretionsmatter.

 

[Deleted member 11413]

This is literally "black people should just stop committing crimes" of politics. There is *ALWAYS* something that shitty about female candidates if you look. Harris it's throwing thousands of black people in jail for an ounce of weed, Warren it's the native American thing. Clinton? People still talk about Whitewater. You really think women



I'm not. I don't deny it. It could be true, it's probably true given enough people are coming forward. I'm saying it's unfair that people rake women over the coals for sort of thing while men get to skate on by. We judge women completely differently to male candidates. Buttery males exhibit fucking A.

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The bolded is some seriously disingenuous bullshit.

Yes, it turns out that everyone has done something they regret/made a bad decision/behaved poorly in their life at some point. That doesn't make them irredeemable, horrible human beings, but it does mean that the behavior should be criticized in the hopes that it will change in the future, especially if that behavior is in the present and not in the past.

 

[Veliladon]

It's strange how Klobuchar being outed as a sociopath is somehow about her gender, when a dude doing the same thing would be equally bizarre and concerning.

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It's equally bizarre and concerning that's why the guy who walks through parlors of naked women at beauty competitions and joins a pedophile billionaire on his minor fucking cruises out in international waters is in the oval office.

 

[TarNaru33]

I doubt being an aide to one of the most powerful people in the country is ever a good job. Most people just shut up about it because it's worth it to get better gigs in the future. Wah I got stuff thrown at me, whatever atleast you have a job and thus a boss to throw things at you. Some people don't even have jobs.

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Jesus christ...

 

[808s & Villainy]

It's equally bizarre and concerning that's why the guy who walks through parlors of naked women at beauty competitions and joins a pedophile billionaire on his minor fucking cruises out in international waters is in the oval office.

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The difference is people aren't pretending the shit Trump does didn't happen. That sexism allowed him to win despite all of that being known doesn't mean people deny the validity of stories like people in this thread literally are

 

[Zornack]

It's equally bizarre and concerning that's why the guy who walks through parlors of naked women at beauty competitions and joins a pedophile billionaire on his minor fucking cruises out in international waters is in the oval office.

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No one here is defending his actions or calling Klobuchar's equal.

Also, are you seriously comparing this situation to people telling black people to commit less crimes and #alllivesmatter?

 

[Deleted member 9100]

It's stupid because women are always the ones that get raked over the coals and when men do shitty things they get elected. It's like how white people and black people use drugs at the same rate but most of the people in prison for possession are black. Yeah bad behavior isn't great but there's sure as hell one group that by far gets away with it. May I suggest a hashtag like #allindiscretionsmatter.

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And that's my argument. Women should absolutely not be held to a different standard for men. It should never be men are only terrible if they do something that's a 9 out of 10 on the terrible scale, while women are terrible if they do a 6 out of 10 on the same scale.

But similar I think it goes both ways. I don't think it's a good argument that "yes, this was terrible, but a man wouldn't be judged as harshly". I think the better argument is "yes this is terrible and I hope a man would be judged as harshly".

For me personally, I don't look at what a politician has done and say " well they could get away with this if they were a straight white male". I look at it and say this is completely unacceptable regardless of gender, race, sexual preference, etc.

 

[Veliladon]

Also, are you seriously comparing this situation to people telling black people to commit less crimes and #alllivesmatter?

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Yes when people write stupid shit like this:

But similar I think it goes both ways. I don't think it's a good argument that "yes, this was terrible, but a man wouldn't be judged as harshly". I think the better argument is "yes this is terrible and I hope a man would be judged as harshly".

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[Veliladon]

Like if you can't connect the dots between "tut tut everyone should stop doing bad things including black people" and "tut tut everyone should stop doing things including females" you really need to hand in your progressive card at the nearest Republican party HQ.

 

[Deleted member 9100]

Yes when people write stupid shit like this:

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You're right. The I'm a complete idiot for saying the same standards should be applied to both sexes and women shouldn't be held to a different standard than men.

I'm a complete sexist piece of shit, right?

I'm curious how you think I'm comparing this to black lives matter and making a racist statement. Black people are clearly not held to the same standard as other races especially white people. A white guy from a rich family abuses cocaine and gets probation while a black person does even less and gets 20 years or more in prison. That's completely unfair and I believe all races/ sexes should be held to the same standards. Race and gender should not play any part in sentencing.

The sentencing for non violent drug crimes is absolutely insane and it's completely unfair that a black person can get prison time just for having weed on them while a white person would get probation or a lesser sentence. I'm insulted that you consider me a racist for saying race and gender shouldn't play a role in sentencing.

No one should be an asshole to their staff. Regardless of race or gender.

I absolutely believe minorities are held to a higher standard than whites and I think women are held to a higher standard than men and I think that's complete bullshit.

 

[Deleted member 11413]

Like if you can't connect the dots between "tut tut everyone should stop doing bad things including black people" and "tut tut everyone should stop doing things including females" you really need to hand in your progressive card at the nearest Republican party HQ.

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No one said that. They said "Amy Klobuchar should stop abusing her employees". Name one person in this thread who has used her actions to make claims about all women.

 

[TarNaru33]

Yes when people write stupid shit like this:

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What's stupid about that post? Are you sure, you shouldn't be the one handing in your "progressive card"?

 

[danm999]

It's stupid because women are always the ones that get raked over the coals and when men do shitty things they get elected. It's like how white people and black people use drugs at the same rate but most of the people in prison for possession are black. Yeah bad behavior isn't great but there's sure as hell one group that by far gets away with it. May I suggest a hashtag like #allindiscretionsmatter.

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Do you think the answer to this problem is to increase the amounts of white people being imprisoned, or decrease the amount of black people being imprisoned?

 

[Deleted member 15440]

 

[Veliladon]

Do you think the answer to this problem is to increase the amounts of white people being imprisoned, or decrease the amount of black people being imprisoned?

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Decrease the amount of black people imprisoned. Why do you think I'm so pissed about the woman being raked over bullshit that wouldn't even rate on a male candidate.

 

[Deleted member 11413]

Decrease the amount of black people imprisoned. Why do you think I'm so pissed about the woman being raked over bullshit that wouldn't even rate on a male candidate.

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Except that this behavior should be equally bad for a male or female candidate. Throwing things at staff is behavior that is likely to get you reprimanded or fired in nearly any profession, regardless of the gender of the person doing it.

 

[danm999]

Decrease the amount of black people imprisoned. Why do you think I'm so pissed about the woman being raked over bullshit that wouldn't even rate on a male candidate.

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Right, so we want men to be as culpable and criticised for abusing their staff as women are. That's kind of the point.

 

[julian]

Decrease the amount of black people imprisoned. Why do you think I'm so pissed about the woman being raked over bullshit that wouldn't even rate on a male candidate.

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Why wouldn't this rate with a male candidate in today's climate? And please stop bringing up Trump, we're talking about Democratic candidates.

 

[Deleted member 11413]

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This linked article is 100% right.

 

[Veliladon]

we're talking about Democratic candidates.

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Biden is the second handsiest motherfucker this side of the aisle and he's the front runner in the "who should be the D candidate" polls. This isn't a Trump problem.

Except that this behavior should be equally bad for a male or female candidate. Throwing things at staff is behavior that is likely to get you reprimanded or fired in nearly any profession, regardless of the gender of the person doing it.

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Right, so we want men to be as culpable and criticised for abusing their staff as women are. That's kind of the point.

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I'd say we've got a forum full of Lewis F. Powells but at least he realized how stupid this argument was eventually.

 

[Arkeband]

It's equally bizarre and concerning that's why the guy who walks through parlors of naked women at beauty competitions and joins a pedophile billionaire on his minor fucking cruises out in international waters is in the oval office.

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lol okay you're right, fuck it, let's elect more sociopaths as long as they're female

I mean if your point is that we elected trump so we can't even talk about anyone else's behavior because he'll always have done worse, we're in a bad place man

 

[Veliladon]

I mean if your point is that we elected trump so we can't even talk about anyone else's behavior because he'll always have done worse, we're in a bad place man

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[danm999]

I'd say we've got a forum full of Lewis F. Powells but at least he realized how stupid this argument was eventually.

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Just so I've got this straight, the place you want as to get to is that women are as free to abuse their employees as men currently are

 

[Arkeband]

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You're the one missing the point. Just because Trump won the election doesnt mean every errant fart he made wasn't documented and called out adequately. Do you want us to just be completely silent about Klobuchar's abuse? FOH.

 

[Deleted member 11413]

Biden is the second handsiest motherfucker this side of the aisle and he's the front runner in the "who should be the D candidate" polls. This isn't a Trump problem.





I'd say we've got a forum full of Lewis F. Powells but at least he realized how stupid this argument was eventually.

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Biden's behavior should be criticized. That still has nothing to do with Klobuchar's behavior, which would legally be considered assault or battery if taken to court.

 

[I Don't Like]

Some of the things Klobuchar is said to have done are over the line, like the comb thing or throwing things at staffers. That would be abusive behavior from any boss, regardless of their gender.

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Would be abusive behavior - yes. Would become this big of a story - no.

 

[julian]

Biden is the second handsiest motherfucker this side of the aisle and he's the front runner in the "who should be the D candidate" polls. This isn't a Trump problem.

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He hasn't announced he's running yet. There's a ton of shit I expect to come out about his behavior and record if and when he does. So I suppose we'll have to put this one on hold until then to see how that plays out.

 

[Deleted member 11413]

Would be abusive behavior - yes. Would become this big of a story - no.

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I'm fairly confident that in the present day, stories about a Democrat congressman running for president who threw things at his staff and attempted to get their job offers rescinded would be a big story.

 

[Veliladon]

Just so I've got this straight, the place you want as to get to is that women are as free to abuse their employees as men currently are

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How did you get that from Lewis F. Powell? Fuck it I'm going to try and make a good faith effort at explaining this.

The point is, (and apologies to Michelle Alexander) when a system is unfair in aggregate, the legitimization of allowing a system to focus only on what it wants to focus on (in this case female candidates) under the guise of being perfectly equal only immunizes the system from having to actually address those disparities.

Let's say you're a sexist traffic cop on a freeway. Limit is 65. Speed of traffic is 85. You start pulling over every female that is doing 75 and citing them for speeding. Sure the women were speeding and on paper the rules equally apply to males and females, but you would agree the system is actually fair in aggregate?

 

[nemoral]

I have no doubt that men are forgiven for acting like giant assholes and women aren't. That doesn't change that they're still acting like giant assholes, and it doesn't make me want to support them.

 

[Lonewulfeus]

Just so I've got this straight, the place you want as to get to is that women are as free to abuse their employees as men currently are

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I'm pretty sure the point was that it's crap to selectively call out one person for behaviour that's very likely prevalent among her colleagues especially when the degree to which people may be aggrieved could be influenced by sexism.

 

[Kusagari]

Would be abusive behavior - yes. Would become this big of a story - no.

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The comb thing would 100% be a story for any major politician. It's the definition of a story that grabs your interest because it makes her come off as completely unhinged.

 

[kambaybolongo]

Just so I've got this straight, the place you want as to get to is that women are as free to abuse their employees as men currently are

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more👏female👏abusive👏bosses👏

 

[Deleted member 11413]

How did you get that from Lewis F. Powell? Fuck it I'm going to try and make a good faith effort at explaining this.

The point is, (and apologies to Michelle Alexander) when a system is unfair in aggregate, the legitimization of allowing a system to focus only on what it wants to focus on (in this case female candidates) under the guise of being perfectly equal only immunizes the system from having to actually address those disparities.

Let's say you're a sexist traffic cop on a freeway. Limit is 65. Speed of traffic is 85. You start pulling over every female that is doing 75 and citing them for speeding. Sure the women were speeding and on paper the rules equally apply to males and females, but you would agree the system is actually fair in aggregate?

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Except in this scenario the person in a position of power who is abusing that power is Klobuchar. Yes, people are sexist. Yes, that affects how female candidates are treated by the media and the electorate compared to male candidates. Acknowledging that all of that is true doesn't make Klobuchar's treatment of her employees any more palatable.

 

[danm999]

I'm pretty sure the point was that it's crap to selectively call out one person for behaviour that's very likely prevalent among her colleagues especially when the degree to which people may be aggrieved could be influenced by sexism.

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That then also needs to be called out.

 

[I Don't Like]

The comb thing would 100% be a story for any major politician. It's the definition of a story that grabs your interest because it makes her come off as completely unhinged.

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Would be a story that stuck around this long? I mean the fact she's running for Pres. obviously amplifies it but realistically is she somehow the only lawmaker to do shit like this? I doubt it.

 

[Lonewulfeus]

more👏female👏abusive👏bosses👏

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Yea my abusive bosses have always been male and I prefer to be abused by women 😫

 

[Veliladon]

Except in this scenario the person in a position of power who is abusing that power is Klobuchar. Yes, people are sexist. Yes, that affects how female candidates are treated by the media and the electorate compared to male candidates. Acknowledging that all of that is true doesn't make Klobuchar's treatment of her employees any more palatable.

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Did you even read my post?

I'm going to go solve climate change. All I need is a magnet, a long copper wire and the corpse of Anatole France.

 

[Deleted member 11413]

I'm pretty sure the point was that it's crap to selectively call out one person for behaviour that's very likely prevalent among her colleagues especially when the degree to which people may be aggrieved could be influenced by sexism.

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I'm pretty sure people are equally aggrieved when their boss throws things at them, regardless of the gender of said boss.

If the behavior is prevalent among her colleagues, then they all deserve to have articles written about their abuse of employees. Turns out a lot of them have, see this list:
https://www.politico.com/story/2017/10/05/tim-murphy-abortion-scandal-office-staffers-243521
https://www.politico.com/story/2018/05/25/tom-garrett-staff-servants-608665
https://www.chicagotribune.com/news...d-rokita-staff-complaints-20170901-story.html
https://www.thenewstribune.com/news/politics-government/article145917604.html
https://www.newsweek.com/fear-la-congressmans-office-leads-silence-harassment-aides-say-752441
https://splinternews.com/here-are-some-more-horror-stories-from-congressional-in-1831258520

 

[Lonewulfeus]

Would be a story that stuck around this long? I mean the fact she's running for Pres. obviously amplifies it but realistically is she somehow the only lawmaker to do shit like this? I doubt it.

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Personally, if someone lost my fork I'd make them feed me by hand instead of eating with a comb.

 

[danm999]

How did you get that from Lewis F. Powell? Fuck it I'm going to try and make a good faith effort at explaining this.

The point is, (and apologies to Michelle Alexander) when a system is unfair in aggregate, the legitimization of allowing a system to focus only on what it wants to focus on (in this case female candidates) under the guise of being perfectly equal only immunizes the system from having to actually address those disparities.

Let's say you're a sexist traffic cop on a freeway. Limit is 65. Speed of traffic is 85. You start pulling over every female that is doing 75 and citing them for speeding. Sure the women were speeding and on paper the rules equally apply to males and females, but you would agree the system is actually fair in aggregate?

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Yes it is and if we make a moral judgement the speed limit is a good thing the rule needs to be applied equally to men, not that we eliminate the speed limit.

 

[Deleted member 11413]

Did you even read my post?

I'm going to go solve climate change. All I need is a magnet, a long copper wire and the corpse of Anatole France.

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Yes I read your post, your analogy is poor because it does not apply to this situation. In your analogy, the law is fair but the enforcement of the law is not. It doesn't apply because there is nothing unfair about reporting specifically about Klobuchar abusing her employees, especially when stories of congresspeople abusing there employees are so common that I found 7 articles about the same subject in the last couple of years, and most of the articles were about congressmen.

 

[Deleted member 4346]

Yes, welcome to shitty jobs.

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This is some bootlicker talk right here.

She also punishes staffers who leave/try to leave for a better job.

https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/entry...unities-for-staff_us_5c706f8fe4b03cfdaa553cdd

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I saw this on HuffPo. Klobuchar shouldn't be president. That's really shitty.

 

[Veliladon]

Yes it is and if we make a moral judgement the speed limit is a good thing the rule needs to be applied equally to men, not that we eliminate the speed limit.

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OK. Let me try to guide you through the train of thought here. Let's say all of the traffic cops in a state are sexist and working like this. How, in a practical sense, do you apply penalties for speeding equally to men if the answer any accusations of inequality is "the system here as written is perfectly equal, yes?". Do you just shrug your shoulders, say we really should pull men over for speeding and...

So you demand all women be perfect at all times? Is that reasonable? Is that fair? As soon as a woman goes 66 on a highway she can be pulled over while men can continue with impunity and clearly get to where they're going faster? This is why I get so pissed off. The media is acting like the cop that will pull a woman over the second she goes over 65 and we're all here going "Well, technically she was going over 65. I fully support more men being pulled over though." Even though the system is clearly biased and unjust in any reasonable sense of the term and men sure as hell will only be pulled over rarely if ever.

 

[Deleted member 9100]

Let's say you're a sexist traffic cop on a freeway. Limit is 65. Speed of traffic is 85. You start pulling over every female that is doing 75 and citing them for speeding. Sure the women were speeding and on paper the rules equally apply to males and females, but you would agree the system is actually fair in aggregate?

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In this case, If you only pull over women who break the speed limit and ignore men, who do the same, that's awful and unacceptable. Similarly, If you only pull over minorities who break the speed limit and ignore white people who break the speed limit, that's unacceptable.

However if you pull over everyone who breaks the speed limit regardless of race or gender, I don't see any issue.

Just like in this topic, abusing your staff is unacceptable regardless of your race or gender. If men also abuse their staff that's equally unacceptable and they should be held accountable.

 

[danm999]

OK. Let me try to guide you through the train of thought here. Let's say all of the traffic cops in a state are sexist and working like this. How, in a practical sense, do you apply penalties for speeding equally to men if the answer any accusations of inequality is "the system here as written is perfectly equal, yes?". Do you just shrug your shoulders, say we really should pull men over for speeding and...

So you demand all women be perfect at all times? Is that reasonable? Is that fair? As soon as a woman goes 66 on a highway she can be pulled over while men can continue with impunity? This is why I get so pissed off. The media is acting like the cop that will pull a woman over the second she goes over 65 and we're all here going "Well, technically she was going over 65. I fully support more men being pulled over though." Even though the system is clearly biased and unjust in any reasonable sense of the term and men sure as hell will only be pulled over rarely if ever.

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Are you saying you should get rid of the speed limit...? What are you saying should be done in this example.

 

[Suzushiiro]

It's strange how Klobuchar being outed as a sociopath is somehow about her gender, when a dude doing the same thing would be equally bizarre and concerning.

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Yeah, find a male Democrat (because of course there are Republicans such as Trump who are at least this bad but this is fundamentally about her fitness to be the *Democratic* nominee) with a remotely similar record on treating their staff (no, the stuff about Bernie isn't even *close*) and getting a pass on it and I can see the argument that this is a gender double-standard. And even then, that's still not a defense, because the correct response to a man doing the same shit is to give him the same level of shit that she's getting, not to give her a pass too!

More generally speaking, fuck anyone who plays the race/gender/whatever else card to defend behavior that white dudes shouldn't be getting away with either.

 

[kambaybolongo]

Yeah, find a male Democrat (because of course there are Republicans such as Trump who are at least this bad but this is fundamentally about her fitness to be the *Democratic* nominee) with a remotely similar record on treating their staff (no, the stuff about Bernie isn't even *close*) and getting a pass on it and I can see the argument that this is a gender double-standard. And even then, that's still not a defense, because the correct response to a man doing the same shit is to give him the same level of shit that she's getting, not to give her a pass too!

More generally speaking, fuck anyone who plays the race/gender/whatever else card to defend behavior that white dudes shouldn't be getting away with either.

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the stuff about bernie was literally just that he talks loud lmao